Loyalist groups to march in Dublin

morlan

For the 3rd time, any chance of turning this thread into a poll or can I create one?

the_menace

On cold reflection, and despite the wide OTT media coverage, I really can't see this march going ahead. Why would the Gardaí allow it knowing that they'll have to dedicate massive resources to it when, because the protestors aren't citizens, they and the government could just as easily say no? It seems like idiotic propaganda to be honest. The citizens of one country being allowed to march through the capital of another country that they are protesting against wanting to be part of seems a bit TOO liberal.

The bottom line is this - if it goes ahead there will be a running battle on our streets and people are likely to get severely injured or possibly killed. That might seem a bit dramatic but I can see it happening. When you put things into perspective, despite their reasons for marching, there are thousands of Southern Irish people who will interpret this as a declaration of war. Especially when you read some of the s**t on their forum.

Mr.Nice Guy

el tel wrote:

Mr.Nice Guy, you obviously live in the North and have been to a riot for you to say this with such authority.

I don't live in the North. Look at the 'Location' part of my username to see where I live. And I don't need to live in the North to say what I said with such authority. For example I don't need to live in Iraq to know it's a dangerous place.

el tel wrote:

Don't believe everything you see on the news or read in the papers.

I don't. I assure you I don't believe the whingeing from Republican rags like Daily Ireland and An Phoblacht.

el tel wrote:

Why not go up to Ardoyne some time and get yourself to a flash point before saying such things.

I'm happy in Dublin thanks. It's a nice place. The Nordies seem to think so...

Longfield wrote:

Agree completely the_menace, they have chosen to hold british citizanship and therefor forfit their right to parade in the "free state".

Gee we better tell those Americans and Londoners who hold patrick's Day marches not to march in future as they're not Irish citizens. And you'll find it's the diehard Republcians who call the 26 counties the "Free State".

Longfield wrote:

More the better, i'd enjoy seeing them bundled non to carefully into waiting Gardaí vans ready to meet the cream of our society in the holding cells

Why?

julep wrote:

someone on that forum equated the ira to the kkk. i pointed out the fact that the kkk killed catholics, but someone deleted my post. i guess they don't like to be associated directly with known bigots.

Did you point out that the IRA killed more Catholics than any other paramilitary organisation?

julep wrote:

as for their citizenship, i personally don't see them as Irish.

Being Irish has nothing to do with citizenship. Citizenship is something bestowed upon by a State. If you're born in Ireland, you're Irish. It's not for the people of the ROI to decide who is Irish and who isn't as we do not have ownership of Irishness.

julep wrote:

they don't want to be Irish, so why should anyone else see them as Irish.

How do you know they don't want to be Irish? Some renounce their Irishness, some do not. Some see themselves as Northern Irish.

julep wrote:

let them have their own little country.

You mean our country?

the meance wrote:

The citizens of one country being allowed to march through the capital of another country that they are protesting against wanting to be part of seems a bit TOO liberal.

A country can be defined as a nation. The Irish constitution states that it would like to see a United Ireland:

It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions...

Why then can't these members of the Irish nation march in the Irish nation?

the menace wrote:

The bottom line is this - if it goes ahead there will be a running battle on our streets and people are likely to get severely injured or possibly killed

What a load of BS. Most Dubliners won't be arsed to even watch it.

the menace wrote:

When you put things into perspective, despite their reasons for marching, there are thousands of Southern Irish people who will interpret this as a declaration of war

I would be more worried about these people then. Hopefully they will be locked up.

Smurfpiss

now THAT is a rebuttle. ok so i couldn't be bothered reading 10 pages of this..stopped at about 4 but i get the general sentiment. As far as I know there's no law against them marching peacefully on our streets. Of course a fair few eejits will chuck stuff at them and their own fair few eejits will chuck stuff back. but i say we should adopt the colin murphy tactic. march with them.
dress up in full orange uniform, get out your lambeg drum and march behind them with a big ****-eating grin. they'll think its a trick and march right back out!

sprinkles

Not content with marching down roads in catholic areas they are coming to the capital. Let them come I say.........only problem is I doubt they'll be getting home


But in all seriousness, are they for real!? The unionists being underprivalaged. They must be having a laugh. And even if they are now becoming underprivaleged its due course. What they percieve as being underprivalaged is just the even-ing out of opportunites in the North.

Are they coming down here looking for sympathy? I'd love to see them allow a republic march through a protestant area, with the tricolour waving and the bands playing good old rebel songs. "Sure we're just looking for some sympathy, whats wrong with that!?" We could call it the love nationalists parade.

W*nkers

sp

the_menace

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

A country can be defined as a nation. The Irish constitution states that it would like to see a United Ireland:

Eh, our claim to a United Ireland was actually removed from our consititution quite a number of years ago.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Why then can't these members of the Irish nation march in the Irish nation?

It's not an Irish nation. Britain still holds Ulster?

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

What a load of BS. Most Dubliners won't be arsed to even watch it.

All I can say is wait and see what happens.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I would be more worried about these people then. Hopefully they will be locked up.

Hopefully.

Mr.Nice Guy

the_menace wrote:

Eh, our claim to a United Ireland was actually removed from our consititution quite a number of years ago.

I never said otherwise. Pay attention to what I wrote. I said the Irish constitution states it wants to see a United Ireland. That is true. It is now regarded as an 'aspiration'.

the_menace wrote:

It's not an Irish nation. Britain still holds Ulster?

First of all, Britain doesn't hold Ulster. It holds six counties of Ulster. And second of all, it is an Irish nation just not an Irish State. A nation and a State are two different things. For example, there is no Basque state but many are of the belief there is a Basque nation.

the_menace wrote:

All I can say is wait and see what happens.

The Sinn Féin Make Partition History campaign had a poor turnout. This will do even worse. I'm certain of it.

the_menace

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

First of all, Britain doesn't hold Ulster. It holds six counties of Ulster. And second of all, it is an Irish nation just not an Irish State. A nation and a State are two different things. For example, there is no Basque state but many are of the belief there is a Basque nation.

Well without getting bogged down in silly semantics, do you think that it's right that the people of the Rep. of Ireland foot the bill for Gardaí, clean-up, etc. for this march?

Mr.Nice Guy

the_menace wrote:

Well without getting bogged down in silly semantics, do you think that it's right that the people of the Rep. of Ireland foot the bill for Gardaí, clean-up, etc. for this march?

I wouldn't regard it as silly semantics. These things need to be clarified.

My feelings on this march have been expressed. I don't think the march should go ahead if it is a triumphalist parade designed to incite violence.

Dave!

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I don't think the march should go ahead if it is a triumphalist parade designed to incite violence.

Then the march shouldn't go ahead...

the_menace

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I wouldn't regard it as silly semantics. These things need to be clarified.

Sorry mate but any time you've replied to me on this thread, your replies have been bogged down with argumentative nonsense and silly semantics.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

My feelings on this march have been expressed. I don't think the march should go ahead if it is a triumphalist parade designed to incite violence.

Precisely. It shouldn't go ahead. And I think we can both agree that you and I shouldn't have to float the bill.

gurramok

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

My feelings on this march have been expressed. I don't think the march should go ahead if it is a triumphalist parade designed to incite violence.

The bulk of the march is by Orange Order bands playing their sash sectarian songs, then the march shouldn't go ahead

Mr.Nice Guy

the_menace wrote:

Sorry mate but any time you've replied to me on this thread, your replies have been bogged down with argumentative nonsense and silly semantics.

Sorry mate but it's hardly nonsense and semantics when you don't know the difference between a nation and a state. You also thought Britain owned Ulster which is not true.

the_menace wrote:

Precisely. It shouldn't go ahead. And I think we can both agree that you and I shouldn't have to float the bill.

I agree if they're looking for trouble then they can stay out but that goes for Republicans as well.

the_menace

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Sorry mate but it's hardly nonsense and semantics when you don't know the difference between a nation and a state. You also thought Britain owned Ulster which is not true.

Like I said; silly semantics and a nonsense all conjured up in your posts - not mine. Stick to the point. People from Northern Ireland should have no right to march down here at our expense no matter what idiotic spin you put on it. :rolleyes:

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I agree if they're looking for trouble then they can stay out but that goes for Republicans as well.

If they're looking to stage a march that's going to cost our taxpayers money, they should stay away end of story. Our government are more to blame by letting them march though.

slipss

I think we should deal with them marching on our capital waving union jacks the same way the english would deal with the SS marching on london waving swaztikas, or the Israelis dealt with the egyptians when they marched into thier country waving thier flag. Have the army ranger wing set up positions and engage them.

slipss

Being serious though I'd love to see it being completely ignored like others have posted, that'd really p1ss the pr1cks off more than anything. I can't see it going ahead but if it deos I honestly think it'll be a blood bath.

Mr.Nice Guy

the_menace wrote:

Like I said; silly semantics and a nonsense all conjured up in your posts - not mine.

LOL. The fact you don't know what you're talking about is hardly semantics or nonsense.:)

the_menace wrote:

Stick to the point. People from Northern Ireland should have no right to march down here at our expense no matter what idiotic spin you put on it. :rolleyes:

You're really struggling now.:)

The people of the North are part of the Irish nation. That's not idiocy, that's fact. As members of the Irish nation I think they have the right to march anywhere in the Irish nation.

the_menace wrote:

If they're looking to stage a march that's going to cost our taxpayers money, they should stay away end of story.

How much money do you think this will cost? Get a clue.

deisedevil

I was speaking to a few of them on their site and they are full sure that there will be no trouble from their side, even went so far as to say that the uvf/uda will be giving warnings to anyone who will be looking to go down to cause trouble and that anyone found to have caused any trouble will be dealt with when they get back up,lol. i said no need , they will get dealt with here. I think it's no harm to let them march for the reasons they outlined, The otr's issue and the issue of sinn fein in government, bring the victims of violence with them and the families of those who have died could bring posters of pics of them. but i don't see what the orange order are needed for with their drums and flags and slogans and songs and chants, that's where the trouble will start!

John R

What is it with this lot and marching anyway? Is it some kind of obscure fetish? Practically every time I turn on the news there they are stomping off down some road playing some very bad music as if it is some big achievement. All it is as far as I can see is a bunch of people too tight to pay bus fare.

The only thing I can think of that is more pointless than marching would be standing around in the middle of winter to shout at people marching.

If they really want to march in our little republic so badly then fine, on one condition. They must start at the border, block off one side of the M1 and leave them to it. If any of them actually make it to Dublin they would probably be desperate for people to throw piss at them.


If pissing them off is the goal then I suggest lining the march route with "Dublin welcomes the gay pride parade" banners.


LoveUlster...Use a rubber.

deisedevil

LMAO @ JOHN R.

"If any of them actually make it to Dublin they would probably be desperate for people to throw piss at them."

LMFAO!!!!:D

Kernel

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

How much money do you think this will cost? Get a clue.

Quite a lot actually, you will have to pay a lot of Gardai to supervise the event. That's without any trouble, with trouble you run into damage to public and private property, legal costs of courts and the cost to incarcerate if necessary.

There is a funadmental issue with the march as to why the Irish taxpayer should foot the bill for a potentially riotous march by people who don't consider themselves and indeed, are not, citizens of the state.

Pighead

ronoc wrote:

Well if you can't be bothered to read and comprehend maybe you should stay out of topics that require a little more brainpower than making up stories in the third person.

This is a small island and believe it or not a lot of people on this island have different views.
It wasn't too long ago civil rights marches were banned in the north and it was the republicans that were accused of stirring trouble.

I don't agree with their politics but I do acknowledge their right to protest.

ronoc you sanctimonious little ninny. Pighead was tempted to report that post to THE MODS. How dare you question my brainpower. However because its the season of goodwill I shall desist. You are obviosly a young man who chases with the hound and runs with the hare.

On the one hand you bleet:

ronoc wrote:

I don't agree with their politics but I do acknowledge their right to protest.

Seems you had a different opinion on acknowledging peoples right to protest last week.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=50489706&postcount=57

If you cant be bothered being consistent with your views maybe you should stay out of topics that require a little more brainpower than basing your views on whatever article you've happened to read that morning. Heeeeeeere cooooooooome theeeeee rooooolllll eyyeeeeeeess. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Pighead

Pighead wrote:

ronoc you sanctimonious little ninny. Pighead was tempted to report that post to THE MODS. How dare you question my brainpower. However because its the season of goodwill I shall desist. You are obviosly a young man who chases with the hound and runs with the hare.

On the one hand you bleet:


Seems you had a different opinion on acknowledging peoples right to protest last week.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=50489706&postcount=57

If you cant be bothered being consistent with your views maybe you should stay out of topics that require a little more brainpower than basing your views on whatever article you've happened to read that morning. Heeeeeeere cooooooooome theeeeee rooooolllll eyyeeeeeeess. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Go away troll.
If you are annoyed by my opinion keep it to yourself rather than ****ting up this thread any further.

And stop searching my post history thats creepy as well as having nothing to do with this topic.

The_Goose

No way, no ****ing way!!!!
Not a chance is this going down.
"I cant wait to see their faces when the union jack is flown"
WTF **** like, The IRA dismantle so now it ass rapin time for the southerns.
NO NO NO NO NO
I will go up my self if i have too, if Bertie lets this happy he is insane.

the_menace

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

LOL. The fact you don't know what you're talking about is hardly semantics or nonsense.:)

The fact that you, completely unprovoked, pointed out the definition of the word 'nation' or some other tid-bit or useless irrelevant fact hardly means that I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm having trouble trying to figure out what YOU'RE talking about and what point you're trying to make.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

You're really struggling now.:)

I'm not the one accusing people of not knowing what the word 'Nation' means. :rolleyes:

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

The people of the North are part of the Irish nation. That's not idiocy, that's fact. As members of the Irish nation I think they have the right to march anywhere in the Irish nation.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I personally think that the Republic of Ireland shouldn't have to foot the bill for a protest carried out by the citizens of another country.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

How much money do you think this will cost? Get a clue.

Get a clue? I object to the citizens of another country coming here and protesting when I'm footing the bill. Particularly if they're down here to let us all know how much they don't want to have anything to do with us. The cost is irrelevant, it shouldn't be allowed. That is my opinion.

Oh, and speaking of getting a clue... read this: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=nation :rolleyes:

Learn how to speak English and we'll talk.

gurramok

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

The people of the North are part of the Irish nation. That's not idiocy, that's fact. As members of the Irish nation I think they have the right to march anywhere in the Irish nation.

You just insulted the marchers which is good.
Problem is they say they are part of Brtish nation, not an Irish nation hence they do not have an automatic right to march.

Pighead

ronoc wrote:

Go away troll.
If you are annoyed by my opinion keep it to yourself rather than ****ting up this thread any further.

And stop searching my post history thats creepy as well as having nothing to do with this topic.

You smarmy little mammys boy. Pigheads getting sick here reading your namby pamby posts. Pighead has already offered his opinions regarding the subject matter. Opinions that you ridiculed and rejected. Bottom line is I dont think this march is a good idea and i'm pretty sure it wont go ahead.
You have already stated you think it could end in violence yet you think it should go ahead. Why?

rsynnott

Should we ban peaceful protest, on the basis that the audience might cause trouble? Are we still a democracy?

These people have a right to protest here. This country is one of two which will effectively determine their future, whether they like it or not. Thus it is reasonable for them to protest here.

Pighead

Pighead wrote:

You smarmy little mammys boy. Pigheads getting sick here reading your namby pamby posts. Pighead has already offered his opinions regarding the subject matter. Opinions that you ridiculed and rejected. Bottom line is I dont think this march is a good idea and i'm pretty sure it wont go ahead.
You have already stated you think it could end in violence yet you think it should go ahead. Why?

A threat of violence from the other side is no reason to prevent a protest. If that were the case we may as well cancel all protests.

Welcome to my ignore list

The_Goose

IT s not the violence its what their coming to represent. It will start out about piece and then thge Union Jacks will be plastered everywhere to give a **** you to the irish people. I m all for peace and have many english and protestant friend but this is just spitting in the ROI face, or at least will end up that way