Loyalist groups to march in Dublin

Pighead

ronoc wrote:

A threat of violence from the other side is no reason to prevent a protest. If that were the case we may as well cancel all protests.

Welcome to my ignore list

Pighead fcuking knew you were the type of person who'd use that spanner of a smiley. That green piece of grinning ****. Heeeeerrrrre cooooommmmeees the annnngrrry smmmilleeeyyyy.:mad:

And i'm pretty sure that the garda siochana and government will actually cancel all protests because of the threat of violence. If somebody knows Mr ronoc can you tell him what Pighead just said. Cheers.

Its pretty obvious why he's ignoring me anyway, ronocs quite shy, so if there's a fella he likes, he actually ignores them because he can't speak to them without getting all red and sweaty, it's embarrassing.
Pigheads flattered ronoc but because of your political views, i'm gonna say NO.

el tel

ronoc wrote:

Welcome to my ignore list

There's an ignore list function? Happy Days!
Quite brilliant, and most ironic, that you should point this out!

Giblet

Pighead banned for personal abuse.

bloggs_k

them orange bastards shouldn't be let near dublin

Giblet

bloggs banned.

Vorak

I think they shud be warmly welcomed, with banners reading.......

"Welcome Home"

"It's only a matter of time"

"Welcome to your Capital"

and so on.

Vorak

Oh, sh*t!

Please dont ban me, i mean it in the nicest possible sense.

Giblet

Dave!

Pighead wrote:

Pighead fcuking knew you were the type of person who'd use that spanner of a smiley. That green piece of grinning ****. Heeeeerrrrre cooooommmmeees the annnngrrry smmmilleeeyyyy.:mad:

And i'm pretty sure that the garda siochana and government will actually cancel all protests because of the threat of violence. If somebody knows Mr ronoc can you tell him what Pighead just said. Cheers.

Its pretty obvious why he's ignoring me anyway, ronocs quite shy, so if there's a fella he likes, he actually ignores them because he can't speak to them without getting all red and sweaty, it's embarrassing.
Pigheads flattered ronoc but because of your political views, i'm gonna say NO.

lmao, good call

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

You're really struggling now.:)

lol... hardly..

Mr.Nice Guy

the_menace wrote:

The fact that you, completely unprovoked, pointed out the definition of the word 'nation' or some other tid-bit or useless irrelevant fact hardly means that I don't know what I'm talking about.

You provoked me into pointing it out by clearly not understanding the difference between a nation and a state:

the_menace wrote:

It's not an Irish nation. Britain still holds Ulster?

It's not my fault you don't know what you're talking about.

the_menace wrote:

I'm having trouble trying to figure out what YOU'RE talking about and what point you're trying to make.

I've noticed that you've been struggling alright.

the_menace wrote:

I'm not the one accusing people of not knowing what the word 'Nation' means. :rolleyes:

Um, that's because you DON'T know what it means whereas I do.:)

the_menace wrote:

Get a clue? I object to the citizens of another country coming here and protesting when I'm footing the bill.

Yeah your objections with this march are based on economic reasons. Riiiiight.:rolleyes:

the_menace wrote:

Particularly if they're down here to let us all know how much they don't want to have anything to do with us.

Now we're gettting closer to the real reason...

the_menace wrote:

Oh, and speaking of getting a clue... read this: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=nation :rolleyes:

Learn how to speak English and we'll talk.

What on earth are you talking about now? Make sense.

gurramok wrote:

Problem is they say they are part of Brtish nation, not an Irish nation hence they do not have an automatic right to march.

Problem is, out constitution says otherwise.

Dave McG wrote:

lol... hardly..

Elmo

It's not an Irish nation. Britain still holds Ulster?

Sorry where exactly are Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan? Each with their very own Orange Orders.

I think you will find that Northern Ireland is an Irish Nation (Island of Ireland) just like Scotland, Wales and England are British nations (Island of Britian).

LOVE ULSTER ALL NINE

cil_aine

didn't they take out our right to the north in the constitution when they did the good friday agreement?

or is that not what your getting at?
sorry.

Elmo

didn't they take out our right to the north in the constitution when they did the good friday agreement?

That what I was think but all of the people in the six counties can get Irish Birth Certificates and passports.


As long as they has a mother or father from the Island of Ireland. But then that another disscussion. :mad:

Article 1

The Irish nation hereby affirms its inalienable, indefeasible, and sovereign right to choose its own form of Government, to determine its relations with other nations, and to develop its life, political, economic and cultural, in accordance with its own genius and traditions.

Article 2

It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation. That is also the entitlement of all persons otherwise qualified in accordance with law to be citizens of Ireland. Furthermore, the Irish nation cherishes its special affinity with people of Irish ancestry living abroad who share its cultural identity and heritage.

Article 3

1. It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory
of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland
shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically
expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island. Until then, the laws enacted by the Parliament established by
this Constitution shall have the like area and extent of application as the laws enacted by the Parliament that
existed immediately before the coming into operation of this Constitution.
2. Institutions with executive powers and functions that are shared between those jurisdictions may be established
by their respective responsible authorities for stated purposes and may exercise powers and functions in respect
of all or any part of the island.

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/publications/297.htm

the_menace

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

You provoked me into pointing it out by clearly not understanding the difference between a nation and a state:



It's not my fault you don't know what you're talking about.



I've noticed that you've been struggling alright.



Um, that's because you DON'T know what it means whereas I do.:)



Yeah your objections with this march are based on economic reasons. Riiiiight.:rolleyes:



Now we're gettting closer to the real reason...



What on earth are you talking about now? Make sense.



Problem is, out constitution says otherwise.

Like I said you're getting bogged down in semantics, picking out inconsistencies in wording and your argument is a total joke. I oppose the march for two reasons - you obviously are trying to turn the argument around to accuse me of bigotry which is all I'd expect from someone who couldn't hold a debate to save his life. I oppose the march because 1) the marchers are not citizen of the Republic of Ireland (happy now? :rolleyes:) and don't pay taxes here and 2) the likelihood of there being troublemakers there. Sorry if that's not what you were expecting but as far as I'm concerned these people aren't welcome to protest on our streets. They can come down for the rugby and have the craic but not disrupt our businesses and drain our economy; albeit slightly. Like I said, they're not Republic of Ireland (:rolleyes: must watch my wording there) citizens. It's a very simple argument and opinion. Pity some don't have the caranial capacity to argue it without resorting to childish nit-picking.

Mr.Nice Guy

the_menace wrote:

Like I said you're getting bogged down in semantics, picking out inconsistencies in wording and your argument is a total joke.

Explain how. You just throw a hissy fit when your inconsistencies are presented before you.

the_menace wrote:

I oppose the march for two reasons - you obviously are trying to turn the argument around to accuse me of bigotry which is all I'd expect from someone who couldn't hold a debate to save his life.

I can debate. I've quoted your comments. You are really struggling mate.:)

the_menace wrote:

I oppose the march because 1) the marchers are not citizen of the Republic of Ireland (happy now? :rolleyes:) and don't pay taxes here

And you know this how? What if some people marching are Irish citizens? After all, victims groups are involved. Do we only allow the ones with Irish passports and turn away the others?

the_menace wrote:

and 2) the likelihood of there being troublemakers there.

Aren't there likely to be troublemakers at every protest? Aren't there likely to be troublemakers launching a counter-demonstration for example?

the_menace wrote:

Sorry if that's not what you were expecting but as far as I'm concerned these people aren't welcome to protest on our streets.

Why not? We're a Republic. Apparently we support equality. These people are regarded as members of the Irish nation by this State.

the_menace wrote:

They can come down for the rugby and have the craic but not disrupt our businesses and drain our economy; albeit slightly.

Says who? Where is that said in our constitution? I must have missed that article...

the_menace wrote:

Like I said, they're not Republic of Ireland (:rolleyes: must watch my wording there) citizens.

You seem to be saying alot of fanciful things coupled with alot of sarcastic smilies. That's hardly a sign of someone who can debate well. As pointed out to you, how can you be sure they are not ROI citizens?

the_menace wrote:

It's a very simple argument and opinion.

That's the problem. It's too simple. It's so simplistic that it doesn't take into account the idea that some involved in the march might actually have Irish passports. You work on the caveman logic of unionist = Brit, nationalist = Irish. End of story. Unfortunately for you pal, things are alot more complicated than that.

the_menace wrote:

Pity some don't have the caranial capacity to argue it without resorting to childish nit-picking.

It would be nit-picking to point out that there's no such word as 'caranial', good thing no one's pointed that out though.

I find it a pity that some people comment on the matter without having a clue about the complexities associated with it. Still, everyone has an opinion...

the_menace

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Explain how. You just throw a hissy fit when your inconsistencies are presented before you.

I grow weary here because we're going around in circles. You're just trolling along here. Where have I been inconsistent?

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I can debate. I've quoted your comments. You are really struggling mate.:)

No, you can't debate. The fact that you can't even stick to the topic, instead pointing out spelling errors and such proves it. Now who's struggling. :rolleyes:

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

And you know this how? What if some people marching are Irish citizens? After all, victims groups are involved. Do we only allow the ones with Irish passports and turn away the others?

As I said before, if you're not paying taxes in this republic and if you're not a citizen of this republic then why should you be allowed to organise protests in this republic, draining the resources of and disrupting businesses in this republic? It's a simple argument and one that's quite easy to understand. It seems laughable that you can't debate this point without resorting to petty nit-picking.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Aren't there likely to be troublemakers at every protest?

What's your point? Or do you have one?

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Aren't there likely to be troublemakers launching a counter-demonstration for example?

Judging by the nature of this march, I would say yes. Again, what's your point?

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Why not? We're a Republic. Apparently we support equality. These people are regarded as members of the Irish nation by this State.

Please refer to my previous remark. They're not paying taxes here and they don't want to be Irish citizens, so why should they drain our resources? If you think they SHOULD be allowed march down here, then fine. But by your baffling rationale any citizens of any country/nation/principality/berg/whatever should be allowed march in any other countrys capital at any time. Which, as I'm sure you know, is just silly. They may be regarded as members of this nation as you so tenuously put it but they're not tax-paying citizens. Simple as.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

You seem to be saying alot of fanciful things coupled with alot of sarcastic smilies. That's hardly a sign of someone who can debate well. As pointed out to you, how can you be sure they are not ROI citizens?

I won't even dignify that with a reply. I think we both know you're just being daft now. I would say few, if any, are Irish citizens. I'm sure there are some genuine protestors who want to march peacefully in remembrance of those murdered by nationalist terrorists but, let's face it, the track record of these marches in the North speaks for itself. To suggest otherwise would be naive and, well, idiotic.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

That's the problem. It's too simple. It's so simplistic that it doesn't take into account the idea that some involved in the march might actually have Irish passports.

Chances are most won't. Let's stop being silly now please.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

You work on the caveman logic of unionist = Brit, nationalist = Irish. End of story. Unfortunately for you pal, things are alot more complicated than that.

How do I work under that logic? If putting words into my mouth is the best you can do then I'm afraid your argument has fallen flat on its ass.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

It would be nit-picking to point out that there's no such word as 'caranial', good thing no one's pointed that out though.

Oh, pointing out spelling mistakes now are we? And you say I'm struggling. Go on, pick out a few more spelling errors in my post if it makes you feel like a big man. :rolleyes: I'm sure there are a good few. It might help to pad out your replies which aren't exactly replete with on-topic debate, let's face it.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I find it a pity that some people comment on the matter without having a clue about the complexities associated with it. Still, everyone has an opinion...

I find it a pity that some people comment on other people's understanding of certain issues without having a clue how much or little that person knows about said issue. Ironically, if you had any clue what you were talking about you would see that this march is, despite its noble coat, an undertaking that is being used to antagnoise people in the Republic of Ireland. Call me a bigot, tell me I don't have a clue what I'm talking about but, sadly, history has given credence to my fears about this parade. Or don't you now anything about the effect orange marches have up North? Probably not. :rolleyes: (<- another smiley, I must be struggling :rolleyes: Ooops! There we go again)

Anyway, I grow weary of this debate as it's going nowhere. I hope some of the posters here are right though and it passes off peacefully.

gurramok

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

And you know this how? What if some people marching are Irish citizens? After all, victims groups are involved. Do we only allow the ones with Irish passports and turn away the others?

That's the problem. It's too simple. It's so simplistic that it doesn't take into account the idea that some involved in the march might actually have Irish passports. You work on the caveman logic of unionist = Brit, nationalist = Irish. End of story. Unfortunately for you pal, things are alot more complicated than that.
.

Have you seen their marches up north yet to evaluate who participates?
They consist of a
-victims group(only unionist victims voices may be seen and heard), unionist victims of even loyalist paramilitaries are not welcome never mind nationalist victims
-Orange marching bands
-attendance of top loyalist paramilitaries hence the withdrawal of support for this Love Ulster thing from mainstream unionist parties

Caveman logic ie nice, your insulting an upstanding loyalist by sayin they would even contemplate having a passport of a state they regard as foreign.

Mr.Nice Guy

the_menace wrote:

I grow weary here because we're going around in circles. You're just trolling along here. Where have I been inconsistent?

You have given different reasons for your opposition to the march.

the_menace wrote:

No, you can't debate. The fact that you can't even stick to the topic, instead pointing out spelling errors and such proves it. Now who's struggling. :rolleyes:

You are. Since you're so fond of these smilies here's one describing your argument - .

the-menace wrote:

As I said before, if you're not paying taxes in this republic and if you're not a citizen of this republic then why should you be allowed to organise protests in this republic, draining the resources of and disrupting businesses in this republic? It's a simple argument and one that's quite easy to understand.

Stop running away from the issue. Answer the question. I'll repeat it for you:

"What if some people marching are Irish citizens? After all, victims groups are involved. Do we only allow the ones with Irish passports and turn away the others?"

Answer if you can.

the_menace wrote:

What's your point?

The point is, do you ban all protests or what?

the_menace wrote:

They're not paying taxes here and they don't want to be Irish citizens,

You know this how? Stop making sweeping statements.

the_menace wrote:

so why should they drain our resources?

They won't 'drain' our resources. We're doing alright economically speaking.

the_menace wrote:

But by your baffling rationale any citizens of any country/nation/principality/berg/whatever should be allowed march in any other countrys capital at any time. Which, as I'm sure you know, is just silly.

Hold on...I'm trying to stop laughing here...let me get this straight, in your eyes it's WRONG for members of a nation to march in the national capital? LOL! Oh, you're funny!

the_menace wrote:

They may be regarded as members of this nation as you so tenuously put it but they're not tax-paying citizens. Simple as.

LOL! It's NOT simple because some of them MIGHT be tax-paying citizens for all you know!

the_menace wrote:

I won't even dignify that with a reply. I think we both know you're just being daft now. I would say few, if any, are Irish citizens.

I thought you weren't going to dignify the question with a reply? You prove my point. You confidently assert that 'few, if any' will be Irish citizens. What if just a 'few' are? Do we still ban the march then? What criteria must a person meet in your eyes to march?

the_menace wrote:

Chances are most won't. Let's stop being silly now please.

I've been waiting for you to stop being silly since yesterday!

the_menace wrote:

How do I work under that logic? If putting words into my mouth is the best you can do then I'm afraid your argument has fallen flat on its ass.

This is the logical conclusion to your argument. You refuse to accept, to even accept, that someone in these marches might be an Irish citizen!

the_menace wrote:

Oh, pointing out spelling mistakes now are we? And you say I'm struggling.

Just trying to add a bit of humour into the discussion but you seem bereft of humour. Sadly, you seem bereft of alot of things...

the_menace wrote:

Go on, pick out a few more spelling errors in my post if it makes you feel like a big man. :rolleyes: I'm sure there are a good few.

Well this is just a small criticism mind but could you please lay off the sarcastic smilies? I'm sure you can make a sarcastic comment without resorting to them. Cheers.

the_menace wrote:

I find it a pity that some people comment on other people's understanding of certain issues without having a clue how much or little that person knows about said issue.

LOL! You showed a misunderstanding of the difference between nations and states. Even someone else pointed that out. Look at Elmo's 18:06 pm post towards you. Did you miss that one? LOL.

the_menace wrote:

Ironically, if you had any clue what you were talking about you would see that this march is, despite its noble coat, an undertaking that is being used to antagnoise people in the Republic of Ireland.

Um, didn't I say that many pages ago? Oh the irony of you telling me I don't have a clue! You're just embarrassing yourself now! LOL.

the_menace wrote:

Call me a bigot, tell me I don't have a clue what I'm talking about but, sadly, history has given credence to my fears about this parade.

Actually the previous Love Ulster parade in the North passed off without violence. No need for tall tales.

the_menace wrote:

:rolleyes: (<- another smiley, I must be struggling :rolleyes: Ooops! There we go again)

Least you figured that out.

the_menace wrote:

I hope some of the posters here are right though and it passes off peacefully.

Something we agree on! At last!

Mr.Nice Guy

gurramok wrote:

Have you seen their marches up north yet to evaluate who participates?

Yes I have actually.

gurramok wrote:

Caveman logic ie nice, your insulting an upstanding loyalist by sayin they would even contemplate having a passport of a state they regard as foreign.

Not everyone there will necessarily class themselves as 'loyalist'.

gurramok

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Yes I have actually.

Can you name the groups that participate?

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Not everyone there will necessarily class themselves as 'loyalist'.

How do you know, where you on one?

the_menace

Mr. Nice Guy, your argument's ridiculous. You're now resorting to the insinuation that the marchers are paying taxes in the Republic and that they're citizens. Troll. :rolleyes:

Mr.Nice Guy

the_menace wrote:

Mr. Nice Guy, your argument's ridiculous. You're now resorting to the insinuation that the marchers are paying taxes in the Republic and that they're citizens. Troll. :rolleyes:

In other words, you've run away from the argument. Hopefully it proved educational for you. Funny that I'm accused of being a troll by a guy with only 24 posts to his name! In fact, I can't recall seeing you around the place though you popped up at a time when unionists were being criticised. Fancy that.

gurramok wrote:

Can you name the groups that participate?

The Orange Order, FAIR (Families Acting for Innocent Relatives), womens groups, community groups are all involved.

gurramok wrote:

How do you know, where you on one?

You don't have to be on one to know that some won't class themselves as loyalists. It's not exactly a popular term these days since it's associated with paramilitaries.

the_menace

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

In other words, you've run away from the argument. Hopefully it proved educational for you. Funny that I'm accused of being a troll by a guy with only 24 posts to his name! In fact, I can't recall seeing you around the place though you popped up at a time when unionists were being criticised. Fancy that.

Yeah, I must be some kind of bigot. Zzzzzzzzzzz

Giblet

Tempers are flared up in dis hizzle

PHB

If they are irish citezins they have a right to march where they want, if they aren't, then they can march where they live

the_menace

PHB wrote:

If they are irish citezins they have a right to march where they want, if they aren't, then they can march where they live

Thank you.

deisedevil

PHB wrote:

If they are irish citezins they have a right to march where they want, if they aren't, then they can march where they live

And from speaking to them on their forum they can't stand people calling them Irish and consider themselves british. Even though Northern Ireland isn't in Britain, it's in the UK. So they aren't too sure where they are from. But one thing is for certain, they do not live under Irish rule, they do not abide by Irish law, they do not consider themselves Irish, they do not pay Irish taxes.

Mr.Nice Guy

the_menace wrote:

Yeah, I must be some kind of bigot. Zzzzzzzzzzz

If people want to see your first post, they can check out this link:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=50530650#post50530650

You say and I quote:

Personally I can't say I'd be too upset if there was violence. It would add fuel to these loyalists' argument that a united Ireland is a bad thing; and as far as I'm concerned it is. As much as I like the idea in theory, I don't want to share my country with these people. Leave them up North and let them live their sad, bitter, bigotted lives and let us get on with being one of the strongest economies on earth. Any peaceful people on either side of the religious divide in Ulster that want to come down and live in peace are more than welcome.

Of course you're not bigoted at all are you?!

By the way the above sentence is an example of sarcasm without resorting to a sarcastic smilie.

Why don't you try and justify the above comments you made? I can't wait to hear this!

deisedevil

Here's the real reason they will be marching in Dublin, F-all to do with a protest march. It's a full blown Orange Order March through Dublin, the protest march means nothing to the most of them. They can piss off if they think they are going having that!
Have a look yourselves!
http://loveulster.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=54406#54406 :mad:

Dave!

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

You provoked me into pointing it out by clearly not understanding the difference between a nation and a state:



It's not my fault you don't know what you're talking about.



I've noticed that you've been struggling alright.



Um, that's because you DON'T know what it means whereas I do.:)



Yeah your objections with this march are based on economic reasons. Riiiiight.:rolleyes:



Now we're gettting closer to the real reason...



What on earth are you talking about now? Make sense.



Problem is, out constitution says otherwise.

This is getting f*cking ridiculous. It's quite clear that you don't know what you're talking about MNG, and you are resorting to silly semantics cos you don't want to admit defeat. Just take a step back, you're out of your depth.