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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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    #7652
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,706 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Were those pubs already likely to close before covid?

    Dice bar was dead in the water as soon as he made his austwitsch posts on Facebook, and at least one of the others was looking to get out of the trade.


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    #7653
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,706 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    ypres5 wrote: »
    What about all the pubs, restaurants and cafes in the article who cited covid as their reason for closing? Clutch at those straws rather than cherry picking what suits you

    Would opening for 2 weeks over paddy's day and shutting again have saved them?


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    #7654
    ypres5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    More pontificating nonsense

    The finish line is long long way off as MM alluded Friday

    No no fintan the finish line is right round the corner, some people here have driven themselves demented trying to create some narrative that the shackles will be magically thrown open in a matter of weeks, which runs contrary to every word out of the government's and nphets mouth


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    #7655
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,251 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    ypres5 wrote: »
    Anything to back that up? Several of the pub owners specify the last year as being what caused them to close and I imagine they know their businesses better than you do.

    So then they are very different to Debenhams who were on their knees and in administration before any pandemic.

    Yet you seem to think its Covid that got Debenhams.


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    #7656
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,274 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    ypres5 wrote: »
    Anything to back that up? Several of the pub owners specify the last year as being what caused them to close and I imagine they know their businesses better than you do.

    I think the train of thought is that if a business becomes insolvent after being forced to close for a year + it must have been a poor set up


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    #7657
    ypres5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Pubs restaurants and cafes open before Christmas really work out well :rolleyes:

    What does christmas have to do with anything? I'm just pointing out the cost the measures have had on people's livelihoods irrespective of the industry they're in but I seem to have upset some of the usual suspects who are convinced that piling onto our national debt and turning the hse into the national covid service will have no negative impact, at least not on them.


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    #7658
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,706 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    I think the train of thought is that if a business becomes insolvent after being forced to close for a year + it must have been a poor set up

    No, if it was running at a loss for years before covid, summer 2020 wasn't going to save them..


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    #7659
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,251 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    I think the train of thought is that if a business becomes insolvent after being forced to close for a year + it must have been a poor set up

    Its seems Ypres thinks all business was in peak condition until covid :pac:


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    #7660
    ypres5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    pjohnson wrote: »
    So then they are very different to Debenhams who were on their knees and in administration before any pandemic.

    Yet you seem to think its Covid that got Debenhams.

    I don't seem to think anything about Debenhams, I didn't specify Debenhams and I didn't write the article but if zooming in on Debenhams and putting words in my mouth helps prop up your own paper thin argument work away johnson


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    #7661
    ypres5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Its seems Ypres thinks all business was in peak condition until covid :pac:

    Well forcefully closing them for months on end didn't do them any favours or do you need me to explain how microeconomics work?


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    #7662
    LeakyLime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭LeakyLime


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Its seems Ypres thinks all business was in peak condition until covid :pac:

    And you seem to be arguing that Covid hasn't had a negative affect on businesses. Bizarre.


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    #7663
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Were those pubs already likely to close before covid?

    Like, did they die with covid or from covid? Thats certainly worth investigating as you wouldn't want to draw conclusions and adopt policy based on the former, would we?


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    #7664
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,559 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Anyone here that isn't old or vulnerable, is a hypocrite if they are taking this blackmail vaccine and at same time, bitching and rightfully so, about these nphet and government clowns ! Loads of my mates have decided not to vaccine are, they are zero risky, healthy. Why would you pump your body with this dollar grabbing, risky vaccine... its lunacy...
    You have already picked up a number of cards in this thread, but the message does not seem to get through. Hence you are now threadbanned for both your vaccine conspiracy stuff and your wider behaviour across these threads


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    #7665
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,892 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    ypres5 wrote: »
    What does christmas have to do with anything? I'm just pointing out the cost the measures have had on people's livelihoods irrespective of the industry they're in but I seem to have upset some of the usual suspects who are convinced that piling onto our national debt and turning the hse into the national covid service will have no negative impact, at least not on them.

    I would have thought it simple enough. We opened up, and numbers shot up, so we went back into lockdown. Are you saying we should have just carried on regardless for the sake of those businesses you were on about ?


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    #7666
    Penfailed
    Registered Users Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Anyone here that isn't old or vulnerable, is a hypocrite if they are taking this blackmail vaccine and at same time, bitching and rightfully so, about these nphet and government clowns ! Loads of my mates have decided not to vaccine are, they are zero risky, healthy. Why would you pump your body with this dollar grabbing, risky vaccine... its lunacy...

    Are you just going to pop in to this thread every couple of days just to say the same thing about vaccines? This is the restrictions thread. Vaccine thread >>>

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



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    #7667
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,892 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    drkpower wrote: »
    Like, did they die with covid or from covid? Thats certainly worth investigating as you wouldn't want to draw conclusions and adopt policy based on the former, would we?

    That whole die from Covid or with Covid has been pretty much put to bed with the Eurostat excess death data. Unless you believe the large excess deaths during the same period of the three waves was just coincidence or there was another killer virus doing the rounds at the same time that nobody noticed ?


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    #7668
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,892 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Penfailed wrote: »
    Are you just going to pop in to this thread every couple of days just to say the same thing about vaccines? This is the restrictions thread. Vaccine thread >>>

    He was just given his on restrictions here. I doubt he would survive for long on the vaccine thread either with his conspiracy theories.


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    #7669
    ypres5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    charlie14 wrote: »
    I would have thought it simple enough. We opened up, and numbers shot up, so we went back into lockdown. Are you saying we should have just carried on regardless for the sake of those businesses you were on about ?

    I never referred to reopening anything or keeping anything open, that's all you. What I was responding to was another poster telling everyone to quit whinging and that better days were ahead and all I did was introduce some harsh reality that thousands of jobs have been lost and thousands more are facing uncertain futures due to restrictions.


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    #7670
    Stormyteacup
    Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    charlie14 wrote: »
    That whole die from Covid or with Covid has been pretty much put to bed with the Eurostat excess death data. Unless you believe the large excess deaths during the same period of the three waves was just coincidence or there was another killer virus doing the rounds at the same time that nobody noticed ?

    Hardly put to bed. There are large discrepancies in reported deaths from Covid and actual excess deaths during the period start March 2020 to end February 2021.

    There are clear excess deaths in spikes during that period, but we are comparing that to years when spikes in death occurred in January and February, so that needs to be considered.

    Just out of interest- what is the reason there are no excess deaths start jan 2020 to end December 2021? Honestly - if it transpires through 2021 that for two years that encompassed a pandemic the all-cause mortality was in line with what would be expected in normal times, then what’s the explanation?


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    #7671
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,892 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    ypres5 wrote: »
    I never referred to reopening anything or keeping anything open, that's all you. What I was responding to was another poster telling everyone to quit whinging and that better days were ahead and all I did was introduce some harsh reality that thousands of jobs have been lost and thousands more are facing uncertain futures due to restrictions.

    Well I can see the other posters point.
    What use is whinging about restrictions unless you have an alternative, or you somehow believe there should never have been any restrictions.


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    #7672
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,251 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    ypres5 wrote: »
    I never referred to reopening anything or keeping anything open, that's all you. What I was responding to was another poster telling everyone to quit whinging and that better days were ahead and all I did was introduce some harsh reality that thousands of jobs have been lost and thousands more are facing uncertain futures due to restrictions.

    And some that had nothing to do with restrictions to boost your numbers ;)


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    #7673
    ypres5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Well I can see the other posters point.
    What use is whinging about restrictions unless you have an alternative, or you somehow believe there should never have been any restrictions.

    So people shouldn't have discussions on a discussion forum? Kind of renders the whole website redundant doesn't it?


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    #7674
    Micky 32
    Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Fergal Bowers :

    “”There will be a time, in the not too distant future, when we will no longer have twice weekly briefings broadcast from NPHET. When daily case numbers will not have the same importance, when NIAC will put its focus on other matters, and when some of the doctors and scientists who have become household names during the pandemic will become less visible and tied up mostly in their day job.””

    “”So this will all pass in time and we will look back from a different perspective. We certainly won’t call them the good old days of lockdown, but we will remember and take the lessons learned.””

    Wouldn’t that be splendid??? :D:pac:


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    #7675
    ypres5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    pjohnson wrote: »
    And some that had nothing to do with restrictions to boost your numbers ;)

    I didn't write the article and you're the one obsessed with dragging Debenhams into it, not me. Please try and keep up


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    #7676
    Stormyteacup
    Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    ypres5 wrote: »
    I didn't write the article and you're the one obsessed with dragging Debenhams into it, not me. Please try and keep up

    Well if they keep banging on about Debenhams maybe people will so distracted as to believe that no one has lost their livelihood due to Covid restrictions.


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    #7677
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Absolutely thrilled to see so many people at the beaches of the West today, children joyously playing, parents topping up their vitamin D, recently vaccinated grandparents seeing their families after so long apart. Young people playing ball, just glorious.


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    #7678
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    charlie14 wrote: »
    That whole die from Covid or with Covid has been pretty much put to bed with the Eurostat excess death data. Unless you believe the large excess deaths during the same period of the three waves was just coincidence or there was another killer virus doing the rounds at the same time that nobody noticed ?

    There is certainly debate on the granular detail but im willing to accept that excess deaths are up; are they up to the extent that justifies the level of restrictions implemented since c May 2020; i dont believe so; are they up to the extent that justifies the level of restrictions we are under now; absolutely not.

    Extraordinary suspension of fundamental liberties and imposition of harm (especially in late cancer diagnoses, screening) requires a proportionate threat; any proportionality that did exist (and in certainly did last Spring) is long gone.


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    #7679
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,892 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Stormyteacup wrote: »
    Hardly put to bed. There are large discrepancies in reported deaths from Covid and actual excess deaths during the period start March 2020 to end February 2021.

    There are clear excess deaths in spikes during that period, but we are comparing that to years when spikes in death occurred in January and February, so that needs to be considered.

    Just out of interest- what is the reason there are no excess deaths start jan 2020 to end December 2021? Honestly - if it transpires through 2021 that for two years that encompassed a pandemic the all-cause mortality was in line with what would be expected in normal times, then what’s the explanation?

    Why would there be any records of death let alone excess deaths for from the start of January 2020 to the end of December 2021 ? Today is the 24th.April 2021.

    I really have no idea what point you are making on all cause mortality for2021 and 2022 other than perhaps you believe that deaths for 2020 were within the normal range.
    They were not and that is what the Eurostat figures show. The monthly death percentages above or below the monthly normal.
    The monthly excess deaths were all above the normal range for the months when there were Covid waves. It`s just not feasible that those deaths were due to anything other than Covid.


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    #7680
    Jimi H
    Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭Jimi H


    Any idea when we think hairdressers/barbers will open?


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    #7681
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Well I can see the other posters point.
    What use is whinging about restrictions unless you have an alternative, or you somehow believe there should never have been any restrictions.

    I think most people believe some measures were necessary. However Ireland certainly overdid level 5. We were very slow to reopen last summer & seem to be acting like we’re being dragged kicking and screaming into the green digital cert idea for this summer. It’s a bad image to give off to our international colleagues of whom Ireland is very dependent on.
    It’s a no brainer to sign up to the digital cert, helps our economy & that of the EU. All depends on case numbers in Europe of course, but Spain, Greek Islands, Germany are motoring ahead of Ireland in vaccine roll out currently.


This discussion has been closed.
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