Death knell for petrol and diesel cars?

18-07-2019 9:34pm

My car is a 2007 so I pay the older higher tax rate for it, but when I bought it it was far cheaper than a 2008 model, even today I think I wouldn't have recouped the extra cost the 2008 model would have cost in respect to savings on the tax.

Shefwedfan · 18-07-2019 9:37pm

I know a person, had a Ford Mondeo.....2007 and was paying I think was it 5-600 tax. I should know I had one but can't remember

Anyway paid 5k to upgrade to 2008 model and I think the saving was 200-400 euro in tax.....he would have to drive for how many years to make that back?

The car was the exact same, same engine, same ltr/100km, same spec, he did get a different colours

What f**king stupidity was that?

elperello · 18-07-2019 9:40pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sorry but that makes no sense? if you could afford to pay 500+ tax in 2007 for a car what difference did it make in 2008???

Why was 10 x 250 taken out of their pocket? if the system stayed the same they would have paid the same amount?

I am astounded with that statement to be honest, it makes no sense to me at all.....

It makes sense all right if you were one of the people caught up in it.
They were paying too much in 2007 and are still paying too much today.

It's supposed to be a motor tax so it should be fair and equitable across the board.

It is not fair for the young lad on the factory floor to be paying twice as much motor tax on his hatchback as the CEO pays on his 5 series.

josip · 18-07-2019 9:44pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I know a person, had a Ford Mondeo.....2007 and was paying I think was it 5-600 tax. I should know I had one but can't remember

Anyway paid 5k to upgrade to 2008 model and I think the saving was 200-400 euro in tax.....he would have to drive for how many years to make that back?

The car was the exact same, same engine, same ltr/100km, same spec, he did get a different colours

What f**king stupidity was that?

Maybe not as stupid as you think?

You've forgotten to factor in 1 year's depreciation, which would probably be around €3000.
The tax saving was probably €390, that's how much extra we paid over and above a 2008 model.
So by year 6 he's ahead

Clareman · 18-07-2019 9:44pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I know a person, had a Ford Mondeo.....2007 and was paying I think was it 5-600 tax. I should know I had one but can't remember

Anyway paid 5k to upgrade to 2008 model and I think the saving was 200-400 euro in tax.....he would have to drive for how many years to make that back?

The car was the exact same, same engine, same ltr/100km, same spec, he did get a different colours

What f**king stupidity was that?

Irish people are fascinated with avoiding tax and having the newest reg plate possible, 2007 to 08 is 1 example and Dacia's are another, people just think that if they've a 192 car that it's better

Shefwedfan · 18-07-2019 10:16pm

elperello wrote: »

It makes sense all right if you were one of the people caught up in it.
They were paying too much in 2007 and are still paying too much today.

It's supposed to be a motor tax so it should be fair and equitable across the board.

It is not fair for the young lad on the factory floor to be paying twice as much motor tax on his hatchback as the CEO pays on his 5 series.

Why was it too much in 2007? the tax system was in place before 2008 for how many years so why would you think it was too much?

If the lad on the floor wants a 5 series then work hard and he will be rewarded

Motor tax is fair and equitable. You buy a car and you are told what the tax is....is it the standard Irish begrudgery after that.....no other explanation

If the government changed the tax on cars after they got registered then maybe you could have a point, but they didn't so sorry your point is ridiculous

Shefwedfan · 18-07-2019 10:18pm

Clareman wrote: »

Irish people are fascinated with avoiding tax and having the newest reg plate possible, 2007 to 08 is 1 example and Dacia's are another, people just think that if they've a 192 car that it's better

Dacia and Skoda's......you really know you have given up on the joys of life if you are driving one of them

Mike9832 · 18-07-2019 10:19pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Dacia and Skoda's......you really know you have given up on the joys of life if you are driving one of them

Says the man with a Ford Galaxy

Gumbo · 18-07-2019 10:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

My car is a 2007 so I pay the older higher tax rate for it, but when I bought it it was far cheaper than a 2008 model, even today I think I wouldn't have recouped the extra cost the 2008 model would have cost in respect to savings on the tax.

I done the same. Bought a 2007 535d over a 2008 version as the difference on motor tax was 1500 V 750 but the cost to buy was nearly 15k t the time. Bought it for 13,600 and sold it for 15k a year later!

elperello · 18-07-2019 10:38pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why was it too much in 2007? the tax system was in place before 2008 for how many years so why would you think it was too much?

If the lad on the floor wants a 5 series then work hard and he will be rewarded

Motor tax is fair and equitable. You buy a car and you are told what the tax is....is it the standard Irish begrudgery after that.....no other explanation

If the government changed the tax on cars after they got registered then maybe you could have a point, but they didn't so sorry your point is ridiculous

We are obviously on different pages on the subject of motor tax.

You clearly have no concern for the people paying through the nose to keep a car on the road which they need but can ill afford.

Some people just can't afford the cc rates of motor tax and have to pay even more to tax quarterly. When they have an NCT failure or a mechanical breakdown the first port of call is the credit union.

Thankfully with the passage of time and the improvement in the economy the post 2008 cars are becoming more affordable.And just as they see light at the end of the tunnel along comes another revision of motor tax.

Gumbo · 18-07-2019 10:44pm

elperello wrote: »

We are obviously on different pages on the subject of motor tax.

You clearly have no concern for the people paying through the nose to keep a car on the road which they need but can ill afford.

Some people just can't afford the cc rates of motor tax and have to pay even more to tax quarterly. When they have an NCT failure or a mechanical breakdown the first port of call is the credit union.

Thankfully with the passage of time and the improvement in the economy the post 2008 cars are becoming more affordable.And just as they see light at the end of the tunnel along comes another revision of motor tax.

Then why did these people buy the car in the first place?
They knew the tax rates before buying it, the tax rate didn’t change so I don’t see the issue?

Now, bear in mind I laid the highest tax rate for years, but I certainly knew what the tax was before I bought the cars and bought with my eyes open.

Shefwedfan · 18-07-2019 10:45pm

elperello wrote: »

We are obviously on different pages on the subject of motor tax.

You clearly have no concern for the people paying through the nose to keep a car on the road which they need but can ill afford.

Some people just can't afford the cc rates of motor tax and have to pay even more to tax quarterly. When they have an NCT failure or a mechanical breakdown the first port of call is the credit union.

Thankfully with the passage of time and the improvement in the economy the post 2008 cars are becoming more affordable.And just as they see light at the end of the tunnel along comes another revision of motor tax.

I do have no concern, if you can’t afford a car then don’t buy one....

Too many people on the road with no tax and insurance because they can afford it....get them all off the road, will improve traffic and the climate

gctest50 · 18-07-2019 10:48pm

1 in 6 cars are running on tyres at or below the legal limit

Gumbo · 18-07-2019 10:59pm

gctest50 wrote: »

1 in 6 cars are running on tyres at or below the legal limit

Not surprised. You see some sights on daily commutes in and out of Dublin and when I’m out and about working.

elperello · 18-07-2019 11:03pm

kceire wrote: »

Then why did these people buy the car in the first place?
They knew the tax rates before buying it, the tax rate didn’t change so I don’t see the issue?

Now, bear in mind I laid the highest tax rate for years, but I certainly knew what the tax was before I bought the cars and bought with my eyes open.

They bought a car because they needed one.

They knew they would struggle but had to get to work or take kids to school.

The issue is that they were robbed blind by high rates pre 2008 and because they couldn't afford to buy a newer car continued to pay too much post 2008.

GreeBo · 18-07-2019 11:08pm

elperello wrote: »

They bought a car because they needed one.

They knew they would struggle but had to get to work or take kids to school.

The issue is that they were robbed blind by high rates pre 2008 and because they couldn't afford to buy a newer car continued to pay too much post 2008.

How on earth can they have been robbed blind when nothing changed for them?!

This thread is full of bonkers opinions.

elperello · 18-07-2019 11:12pm

GreeBo wrote: »

How on earth can they have been robbed blind when nothing changed for them?!

This thread is full of bonkers opinions.

Instead of making the Motor Tax system fair and equitable the government gave a sweet deal to those who could afford new cars and continued to milk the less well off motorist.

paleoperson · 19-07-2019 3:54am

elperello wrote: »

Instead of making the Motor Tax system fair and equitable the government gave a sweet deal to those who could afford new cars and continued to milk the less well off motorist.

yeah like I say, if they have their little swindle going where they get all this **** for free then it's hard to blame them for taking it out of the taxpayers' wallet. But don't compare it to diesel/petrol like that and call it a fair comparison. They're literally being propped up by people who actually use petrol and diesel, that is why all the numbers of how many use EV and the prices they pay are all smoke and mirrors and the title of this thread is a total troll.

Still looking at my cruise range and it's still at 583km (out of 730km) and still 9 bars up showing no signs of losing one. At motorway speeds for a diesel (as opposed to city traffic) this could be up to 200km, confirming my claim that it goes almost from Cork to Dublin without a single bar being lost - and I was not seeing things or lying as some people were trying to make out. It's also worth noting how Irish people are unusual to be living in such a small landmass, the vast majority of people in the world live on huge landmasses and can go on road trips spanning thousands of miles - very difficult with an EV.

MightyMunster · 19-07-2019 6:25am

paleoperson wrote: »

yeah like I say, if they have their little swindle going where they get all this **** for free then it's hard to blame them for taking it out of the taxpayers' wallet. But don't compare it to diesel/petrol like that and call it a fair comparison. They're literally being propped up by people who actually use petrol and diesel, that is why all the numbers of how many use EV and the prices they pay are all smoke and mirrors and the title of this thread is a total troll.

Still looking at my cruise range and it's still at 583km (out of 730km) and still 9 bars up showing no signs of losing one. At motorway speeds for a diesel (as opposed to city traffic) this could be up to 200km, confirming my claim that it goes almost from Cork to Dublin without a single bar being lost - and I was not seeing things or lying as some people were trying to make out. It's also worth noting how Irish people are unusual to be living in such a small landmass, the vast majority of people in the world live on huge landmasses and can go on road trips spanning thousands of miles - very difficult with an EV.

Was there not a test done a week or so ago where they did 2800km in 1day in a new Tesla model 3. That's equivalent to Paris to the edge of Asia (Istanbul)

Shefwedfan · 19-07-2019 8:04am

elperello wrote: »

They bought a car because they needed one.

They knew they would struggle but had to get to work or take kids to school.

The issue is that they were robbed blind by high rates pre 2008 and because they couldn't afford to buy a newer car continued to pay too much post 2008.

You are 100% incorrect.

IN reality the biggest hit was people buying new cars in 2005/6/7. Once the tax change in 2008 they suddenly had a massive chuck of resale value knocked off car. We had people on Late Late and everything talking about how the second hand market was killed. The resale value in cars halfed

Who won on this? well the lower class suddenly could get a newer plate fornext to nothing. So they had to pay a few quid extra tax but they could a car at a hugely reduced price....

If you buy a car at 500 euro tax and cant afford to pay that tax then your a idiot and don't deserve to be on the roads. Plenty of car pre 2008had cheap tax. Funny how these "poor" people all seemed to have to buy BMW/AUdi etc with high tax.....

Take some responsibilities for your own actions, blaming the government for everything is childish....you are suppsoed to have a brain in your own head

The Bishop Basher · 19-07-2019 8:09am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

well the lower class suddenly could get a newer plate fornext to nothing.

Lower relative to what or whom ?

You ?

Shefwedfan · 19-07-2019 8:11am

paleoperson wrote: »

yeah like I say, if they have their little swindle going where they get all this **** for free then it's hard to blame them for taking it out of the taxpayers' wallet. But don't compare it to diesel/petrol like that and call it a fair comparison. They're literally being propped up by people who actually use petrol and diesel, that is why all the numbers of how many use EV and the prices they pay are all smoke and mirrors and the title of this thread is a total troll.

Still looking at my cruise range and it's still at 583km (out of 730km) and still 9 bars up showing no signs of losing one. At motorway speeds for a diesel (as opposed to city traffic) this could be up to 200km, confirming my claim that it goes almost from Cork to Dublin without a single bar being lost - and I was not seeing things or lying as some people were trying to make out. It's also worth noting how Irish people are unusual to be living in such a small landmass, the vast majority of people in the world live on huge landmasses and can go on road trips spanning thousands of miles - very difficult with an EV.

If your car can is able to defy the basic laws of physics then yes it is possible.....

GreeBo · 19-07-2019 8:31am

elperello wrote: »

Instead of making the Motor Tax system fair and equitable the government gave a sweet deal to those who could afford new cars and continued to milk the less well off motorist.

So to summarise (again), there was absolutely ZERO impact to the tax anyone was paying. The motor tax didnt suddenly increase overnight for people, they were paying what they were always paying.

This is the same nonsense that leads to people blaming banks because they cant afford their mortgage. Stop blaming other people for your own decisions.

josip · 19-07-2019 8:38am

paleoperson wrote: »

Still looking at my cruise range and it's still at 583km (out of 730km) and still 9 bars up showing no signs of losing one. At motorway speeds for a diesel (as opposed to city traffic) this could be up to 200km, confirming my claim that it goes almost from Cork to Dublin without a single bar being lost - and I was not seeing things or lying as some people were trying to make out. It's also worth noting how Irish people are unusual to be living in such a small landmass, the vast majority of people in the world live on huge landmasses and can go on road trips spanning thousands of miles - very difficult with an EV.

What is your fascination with these bars?
Especially when you've got a more useful prediction of remaining range.
Have you tried tapping the fuel gauge? That top bar might be sticking...

Gumbo · 19-07-2019 9:25am

The Bishop Basher wrote: »

Lower relative to what or whom ?

You ?

I see people in social housing with newer cars than me. I see people in thuath and cluid housing schemes with newer cars than me. How can they afford newer cars while I work full time and pay a mortgage and they have enough cash to buy a new car????

Zenith74 · 19-07-2019 9:34am

kceire wrote: »

I see people in social housing with newer cars than me. I see people in thuath and cluid housing schemes with newer cars than me. How can they afford newer cars while I work full time and pay a mortgage and they have enough cash to buy a new car????

You've kinda answered your own question there; you're prudently saving for the future by investing in your mortgage, those people you see are spending their cash. You could be on €150k a year and between pension payments, childcare, mortgages etc. not have the free cash to drive a new car; doesn't mean the person in the council house who choose to spend (waste, but anyway) their money on a new car is better off than you right?

Shefwedfan · 19-07-2019 11:06am

Zenith74 wrote: »

You've kinda answered your own question there; you're prudently saving for the future by investing in your mortgage, those people you see are spending their cash. You could be on €150k a year and between pension payments, childcare, mortgages etc. not have the free cash to drive a new car; doesn't mean the person in the council house who choose to spend (waste, but anyway) their money on a new car is better off than you right?

This is the issue, the people hit most by the recession is not the lower class but the people in middle class....those who have mortgage, two jobs, kids etc.....they are getting absolutely crucified

But every budget we have the wasters out looking for Christmas bonus etc. I know a person who will work on sites for maybe half the year or so, then just quit and go on the dole for rest of year. Says its no point working as he is paying tax after that

...he is driving around in a lovely 171 or 181 hybrid Toyota.....

It would be better if the government halfed the dole, stopped childrens allowance after 2-3 kids and put that money into good use....But we are way off topicnow

Lets just say the 2008 and the poor me story is completely incorrect....the only person that lost out in 2008 was the person who bought a new car just before it as the depreciation went through the roof

Mike9832 · 19-07-2019 11:25am

kceire wrote: »

I see people in social housing with newer cars than me. I see people in thuath and cluid housing schemes with newer cars than me. How can they afford newer cars while I work full time and pay a mortgage and they have enough cash to buy a new car????

Do what they are doing

The Bishop Basher · 19-07-2019 11:34am

kceire wrote: »

I see people in social housing with newer cars than me. I see people in thuath and cluid housing schemes with newer cars than me. How can they afford newer cars while I work full time and pay a mortgage and they have enough cash to buy a new car????

I see that too

Probably because they don't have mortgages, don't have to pay LPT etc.

Many of them have medical cards.

It doesn't mean they're a "lower class" then shefwedfan though..

Shefwedfan · 19-07-2019 11:38am

The Bishop Basher wrote: »

I see that too

Probably because they don't have mortgages, don't have to pay LPT etc.

Many of them have medical cards.

It doesn't mean they're a "lower class" then shefwedfan though..

Death knell for petrol and diesel cars?

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