Death knell for petrol and diesel cars?

Mike9832

Water John wrote: »

If you can book the train ahead, it will be less than half the price. I think Cork- Dublin return is €44, great if you're going to one meeting or function. About the same cost as the diesel.

That's true

Shefwedfan

Water John wrote: »

If you can book the train ahead, it will be less than half the price. I think Cork- Dublin return is €44, great if you're going to one meeting or function. About the same cost as the diesel.

Ahh now you see that’s common sense.....

We can’t have that in this thread.....Still won’t be as quick as the supersonic car doing Dublin to cork in 2 hour 15

paleoperson

Water John wrote: »

If you can book the train ahead, it will be less than half the price. I think Cork- Dublin return is €44, great if you're going to one meeting or function. About the same cost as the diesel.

Less than half the price? I highly doubt that. That would be on the level of a scam.

Diesel would be significantly less than that. 500 kilometres at 131 cent per litre, if you're NOT specially trying to go 100kmph to conserve, will give you about 5litres per 100km would be 1.3x25 = €32.25. Mine is even lower because as I said, the chain near me has one of or the lowest prices in Ireland.

creedp

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Dublin to Cork is 3 hours in car, thats without considering rush hour at either end. Also if I type in Cork to Dublin on google it tell me 3.06(259.2km).

Click on train and it is 2.29mins. So not sure what google you have??

Majority of people doing the Dublin to Cork in any regular occurrence are business people. Relaxing and working for 5 hours on a train is better than sitting in a car for 6 hours, especially if you have meeting on the other side.

Electric is rubbish, rail is rubbish.....I see a theme with your posts!!!



As I posted, you can buy diesel and other cars till 2030 and run them till 2040....one person will make little difference.....the more tax you pay the less I have to, so thank you!!

Regularly do Drogheda to Cork trip, 700km round trip with 6 on board and loads of luggage. I'm 60km from train on home side and 25km on destination. Hate to think what the cost and hassle would be to do that trip on train.



Train is fine for business person or single traveller who is close to station on both sides. Other than that it's a poor substitute for a car

Water John

If you pick a specific time to go and return you can get a Cork- dublin return ticket as low as €20.
Don't be intimating that I'm telling porkies. Just do your research first.
As I wrote before my ICE diesel is Band A and runs at 6l/100km.

paleoperson

Water John wrote: »

If you pick a specific time to go and return you can get a Cork- dublin return ticket as low as €20.

Really? You've got me really interested. That'd be a big blow to the conventional wisdom that cars are cheaper than trains. You'd think they'd advertise that wouldn't you?

You know how they're always saying "for as little as xxxx return", maybe they want to hold it as a surprise for their customers that dig more. Go ahead and show an example of anything similar to that. I'd be mightily interested and might do it myself some time. I'm looking forward to seeing this.

Water John wrote: »

As I wrote before my ICE diesel is Band A and runs at 6l/100km.

My regular diesel car gets 5 and is 8 years old.

Shefwedfan

Www.irishrail.ie

Pick stations
Pick dates

Boom.....

cadaliac

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Www.irishrail.ie

Pick stations
Pick dates

Boom.....

You’re train argument is severely flawed. Low price tickets are off peak times, that have to be purchased well in advance. Both issues that clearly don’t suit everyone. Why have cars at all so? “Just get the train “ like you suggested?

Condescending remarks at posters who try to point this out , also doesn’t help your agenda or argument.

Shefwedfan

cadaliac wrote: »

You’re train argument is severely flawed. Low price tickets are off peak times, that have to be purchased well in advance. Both issues that clearly don’t suit everyone. Why have cars at all so? “Just get the train “ like you suggested?

Condescending remarks at posters who try to point this out , also doesn’t help your agenda or argument.

Maybe read more than the last post before firing out accusations

It was already discussed about the cost of buying train ticket in short term

ELM327

cadaliac wrote: »

You’re train argument is severely flawed. Low price tickets are off peak times, that have to be purchased well in advance. Both issues that clearly don’t suit everyone. Why have cars at all so? “Just get the train “ like you suggested?

Condescending remarks at posters who try to point this out , also doesn’t help your agenda or argument.

The train is not , nor will it ever be, a substitute for a private car.
It doesn't ahve the same level of functionality (At will travel), and is often more expensive than a car .. especially a car with more than 1 occupant.


I agree a lot with shefwedfan when it comes to EVs but I staunchly disagree with this public transport BS. It is never a replacement for private transport. Too restrictive, too expensive, and you have to sit with the great unwashed.

zilog_jones

Mike9832 wrote: »

In with the plebs for €75

If you want to be relaxed and fresh it's first class, that's €100+

Standard class still has better legroom than my car, and it's a hell of a lot more relaxing than driving for 5 hours in one day.

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I didn't spend money on a car, tax and insurance to sit on a train.

I didn't spend money on a car to do boring, tiring motorway trips that take up half the day if I don't need to. It's not some competition to drive it as much as possible just because it's taxed and insured - that's a silly argument.

If this was some theoretical business trip I wouldn't be paying either way, so would just get the train, pay full fare, and claim all travel expenses to/from the stations as well.

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

The train is not , nor will it ever be, a substitute for a private car.
It doesn't ahve the same level of functionality (At will travel), and is often more expensive than a car .. especially a car with more than 1 occupant.


I agree a lot with shefwedfan when it comes to EVs but I staunchly disagree with this public transport BS. It is never a replacement for private transport. Too restrictive, too expensive, and you have to sit with the great unwashed.

It's not a replacement.....it can compliment the car.



The excuse not to buy electric is because of the odd trip to Cork, I was just saying the reason most people go to Cork is actually on business, for someone on a business trip it makes more sense to use the train as you can work while travelling.


If I was going for holidays to Cork tomorrow morning I would not be taking the train. Trying to haul items for 3 kids in a train is too much so car is best option then.


My point all along this thread it that it should be a mix depending on requirements. People will still need diesel cars going forward, but it should be only the people that actually require them for long distance driving. Not every punter on the road

Shefwedfan

zilog_jones wrote: »

If this was some theoretical business trip I wouldn't be paying either way, so would just get the train, pay full fare, and claim all travel expenses to/from the stations as well.

Shhhhh, don't tell them that I would never do that

ELM327

for me I'd have expenses paid so I'd just drive

josip

zilog_jones wrote: »

If this was some theoretical business trip I wouldn't be paying either way, so would just get the train, pay full fare, and claim all travel expenses to/from the stations as well.

I once did the opposite for a £600 internal Swedish flight from Linkoping to Skelleftea (1000km) with my company's full knowledge and blessing.
Ah, road trip. Those were the days.

Twenty Grand

zilog_jones wrote: »

Standard class still has better legroom than my car, and it's a hell of a lot more relaxing than driving for 5 hours in one day.



I didn't spend money on a car to do boring, tiring motorway trips that take up half the day if I don't need to. It's not some competition to drive it as much as possible just because it's taxed and insured - that's a silly argument.

If this was some theoretical business trip I wouldn't be paying either way, so would just get the train, pay full fare, and claim all travel expenses to/from the stations as well.

Each to their own.
I'd prefer to spend 3 hours in a car from my house to final destination, listening to podcasts, signing away.

Instead of many more hours taxi to train station, wait for train, get to Heuston, wait for Luas, Get Luas to city, taxi to final destination, make small talk with taxi driver, all the while lugging my bags and baggage behind me.
And that's by myself, if I had company it'd be cheaper anyways than buying multiple tickets.

Shefwedfan

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Each to their own.
I'd prefer to spend 3 hours in a car from my house to final destination, listening to podcasts, signing away.

Instead of many more hours taxi to train station, wait for train, get to Heuston, wait for Luas, Get Luas to city, taxi to final destination, make small talk with taxi driver, all the while lugging my bags and baggage behind me.
And that's by myself, if I had company it'd be cheaper anyways than buying multiple tickets.

While your at it sure you might as well hire a bike and go for a cycle.......you have used every other form of transport in this trip

No idea why you would get a Luas to get a taxi? would you not just get a taxi to the destination? or a bike of course :-)

ELM327

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Each to their own.
I'd prefer to spend 3 hours in a car from my house to final destination, listening to podcasts, signing away.

Instead of many more hours taxi to train station, wait for train, get to Heuston, wait for Luas, Get Luas to city, taxi to final destination, make small talk with taxi driver, all the while lugging my bags and baggage behind me.
And that's by myself, if I had company it'd be cheaper anyways than buying multiple tickets.

Same here. Avoid the proletariat of sweaty people who cant afford a car, avoid interacting with the bus and taxi drivers who are lets face it doing you a favour by even being there.


Fook that. I'm taking the car.

Twenty Grand

Shefwedfan wrote: »

While your at it sure you might as well hire a bike and go for a cycle.......you have used every other form of transport in this trip

No idea why you would get a Luas to get a taxi? would you not just get a taxi to the destination? or a bike of course :-)

I mean, I do what I must.

Love how the a serious alternative to driving my own car is a train and two other cars.

I mean, unless you live next to a train station, and your destination is near a train station, and there's a significant time saving, why bother?

cnocbui

I have had no option but to use my car. For four years I carted my son, two desktop tower computers, three monitors a large bag of cables and other stuff to college in Dublin, and back. Simply not doable via public transport.

When EVs get the same form factor, cost and range as my current ICE, I'll happily get one.

Mike9832

Mike9832 wrote: »

It's all about the network now imo

If the government want us all in EV's in by 2030, they need to get onto Circle K, Applegreen, Maxol etc and tell them, install electric chargers at every service station in the country pronto or your not allowed sell fuel, cigaretees, beer etc

Government are quick to take a heavy hand to us, now they need to show some balls and tackle corporations

This is the first time I've seen such a suggestion and I have to say, it's a very good one. It would solve the major issues affecting EVs at the stroke of a pen. Relatively quick and easy solution, for minimal cost to the Govt, suppliers and end-users.

Anjobe wrote: »

There's a problem with this though. If it takes say 5x longer to fast charge an EV than to refuel an ICE then service stations will need 5 times as many chargers as fuel pumps to service the same number of cars. Even a small fuel station with 8 pumps would then need 40 chargers, and therefore space to park 40 cars. That's just not going to work.

Your equation only works if you work off the assumption that there are equal numbers of EVs and ICEs, which obviously isn't the case. A garage with 8 pumps doesn't need 40 chargers, FFS, it only needs one. If that's full, then just go to the next one.

There are about 1,500 stations in Ireland, already spread out to give maximum coverage. Imagine the improvements to the charging network if Shell Topaz Circle K et al were compelled to install one in order to continue selling petrol?

run_Forrest_run

cnocbui wrote: »

I have had no option but to use my car. For four years I carted my son, two desktop tower computers, three monitors a large bag of cables and other stuff to college in Dublin, and back. Simply not doable via public transport.

When EVs get the same form factor, cost and range as my current ICE, I'll happily get one.

laptops?? (sorry)

cnocbui

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

laptops?? (sorry)

Not a chance, unfortunately. They can't compete with a full on gaming PC with three monitor setup and don't make very good servers.

Shefwedfan

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I mean, I do what I must.

Love how the a serious alternative to driving my own car is a train and two other cars.

I mean, unless you live next to a train station, and your destination is near a train station, and there's a significant time saving, why bother?

The point is to reduce CO2....

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The point is to reduce CO2....

A naturally occurring gas, required by most green plants and trees?


No. The plan should be to reduce NOx.

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the first time I've seen such a suggestion and I have to say, it's a very good one. It would solve the major issues affecting EVs at the stroke of a pen. Relatively quick and easy solution, for minimal cost to the Govt, suppliers and end-users.

Your equation only works if you work off the assumption that there are equal numbers of EVs and ICEs, which obviously isn't the case. A garage with 8 pumps doesn't need 40 chargers, FFS, it only needs one. If that's full, then just go to the next one.

There are about 1,500 stations in Ireland, already spread out to give maximum coverage. Imagine the improvements to the charging network if Shell Topaz Circle K et al were compelled to install one in order to continue selling petrol?

If the government wants an outcome, it should bl00dy well pay for it, not expect some small business owner or company to pay for it's ideology.

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

A naturally occurring gas, required by most green plants and trees?


No. The plan should be to reduce NOx.

I would say a bit from column A and a bit from column B

cnocbui

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The point is to reduce CO2....

Or the sky will down and the polar bears will be sad.

Shefwedfan

cnocbui wrote: »

Or the sky will down and the polar bears will be sad.

Well as ELM327 pointed out, it is also NOx which is killing you slowly.....


But sure you have a carry a PC with you :P

cnocbui

ELM327 wrote: »

A naturally occurring gas, required by most green plants and trees?


No. The plan should be to reduce NOx.

The last time the Irish government went on a green ideology driven market crusade, it increased NOx significantly. Genius, just like the current nonsense this thread is based on. Oh I know, this time it will be different, this time they have got it right and the ideology is sound. This time the Law of Unintended Consequences wont apply.