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Death knell for petrol and diesel cars?

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    #1412
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,942 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Well as ELM327 pointed out, it is also NOx which is killing you slowly.....


    But sure you have a carry a PC with you :P

    My son was doing an IT degree and is a keen gamer, so yes, I did need to cart two tower PCs back and forth.

    Remind me why there are so many diesel driven vehicles in Ireland. Go on..


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    #1413
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    cnocbui wrote: »
    The last time the Irish government went on a green ideology driven market crusade, it increased NOx significantly. Genius, just like the current nonsense this thread is based on. Oh I know, this time it will be different, this time they have got it right and the ideology is sound. This time the Law of Unintended Consequences wont apply.


    I posted this before but maybe you missed it


    This is not the Irish government, ok they have made some moves but in reality they are miles behind every other country. Idiots should have done something last budget but bottled it and would continue if left in their hands......



    Diesel and petrol are going away because the car manufacturers are moving away from them. Look at VW/BMW/Nissan/Volvo/Merc etc etc.....every single one of them have plans for BEV and Hybrid. Every news story they release is new electric/hybrid version.



    I was in VW last week and the seller was telling me not to buy a diesel Allspace. My wife wanted diesel and he recommended to buy petrol, both version in stock. He said to me the resale value at the end of 3 years will be better on the petrol and really he cant wait to get hybrid in.....



    Ireland has nothing to do with the death of diesel/petrol. Germany/UK etc saying they want to ban selling them is the reason it is getting removed.


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    #1414
    zilog_jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,641 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Each to their own.
    I'd prefer to spend 3 hours in a car from my house to final destination, listening to podcasts, signing away.

    Instead of many more hours taxi to train station, wait for train, get to Heuston, wait for Luas, Get Luas to city, taxi to final destination, make small talk with taxi driver, all the while lugging my bags and baggage behind me.
    And that's by myself, if I had company it'd be cheaper anyways than buying multiple tickets.

    The discussion was about a Cork-Dublin round trip in one day, that's 6 hours in your car in one day and you're not going to have masses of luggage. The train's faster so the overall time could be similar, and as others have said getting a Luas *then* taxi makes no sense.

    You know about headphones, right? You can listen to whatever you want on public transport too.
    cnocbui wrote: »
    I have had no option but to use my car. For four years I carted my son, two desktop tower computers, three monitors a large bag of cables and other stuff to college in Dublin, and back. Simply not doable via public transport.

    That is such a bizarre edge case, I bet no one else in this forum is doing that on a regular basis. My desktop PC hasn't left my home since I built it years ago. Sure public transport won't suit that, but it's safe to say that millions of people in this country are not doing that.


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    #1415
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    zilog_jones wrote: »


    That is such a bizarre edge case, I bet no one else in this forum is doing that on a regular basis. My desktop PC hasn't left my home since I built it years ago. Sure public transport won't suit that, but it's safe to say that millions of people in this country are not doing that.


    Bizarre requirements seem to be common on this thread....


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    #1416
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,942 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    zilog_jones wrote: »
    That is such a bizarre edge case, I bet no one else in this forum is doing that on a regular basis. My desktop PC hasn't left my home since I built it years ago. Sure public transport won't suit that, but it's safe to say that millions of people in this country are not doing that.

    I am sure you are right and most people never need to transport stuff any great distance. I have a way more edge case than that, which I won't go into.

    But here is the thing - some people do have transportation requirements that are out of the norm and I personally don't think they should be penalised by governments for that. It's always the stick, as the government don't grow carrots, and wouldn't give them away if they did.

    I am all for EVs if their price, performance and form factor can match that of reasonably priced cars, without governments using subsidies to beat people with a stick to get their way.


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    #1417
    Anjobe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Anjobe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Your equation only works if you work off the assumption that there are equal numbers of EVs and ICEs, which obviously isn't the case. A garage with 8 pumps doesn't need 40 chargers, FFS, it only needs one. If that's full, then just go to the next one.

    There are about 1,500 stations in Ireland, already spread out to give maximum coverage. Imagine the improvements to the charging network if Shell Topaz Circle K et al were compelled to install one in order to continue selling petrol?

    I was actually making the assumption that there will be ~2 million EVs. If we are seeing the death knell of ICE cars as per the thread title, then surely everyone who currently drives an ICE will need to switch to EV sooner or later? At some stage in the future there will be as many EVs on the road as there are currently ICEs, probably in around 20 years, and I was just questioning the sustainability of that.

    I think now might be the least painful time to own an EV, while there are so few on the road, especially one of the newer ones that is not crippled by low range.


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    #1418
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,676 ✭✭✭creedp


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I posted this before but maybe you missed it


    This is not the Irish government, ok they have made some moves but in reality they are miles behind every other country. Idiots should have done something last budget but bottled it and would continue if left in their hands......



    Diesel and petrol are going away because the car manufacturers are moving away from them. Look at VW/BMW/Nissan/Volvo/Merc etc etc.....every single one of them have plans for BEV and Hybrid. Every news story they release is new electric/hybrid version.



    I was in VW last week and the seller was telling me not to buy a diesel Allspace. My wife wanted diesel and he recommended to buy petrol, both version in stock. He said to me the resale value at the end of 3 years will be better on the petrol and really he cant wait to get hybrid in.....



    Ireland has nothing to do with the death of diesel/petrol. Germany/UK etc saying they want to ban selling them is the reason it is getting removed.


    In Amsterdam at present and expected to be amazed by all the EVs on the streets. However other than the fact that there is a brilliant public trasport system and bikes everywhere I could be in Dublin as the vast majority of cars are ICE and a large majority of those are diesel. Be a while yet before EVs rule here also.


    Quite a few model s here most of which seem to be taxis with few Ioniqs and a couple L40s but I've yet to see an L24/30.


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    #1419
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    creedp wrote: »
    In Amsterdam at present and expected to be amazed by all the EVs on the streets. However other than the fact that there is a brilliant public trasport system and bikes everywhere I could be in Dublin as the vast majority of cars are ICE and a large majority of those are diesel. Be a while yet before EVs rule here also.


    Quite a few model s here most of which seem to be taxis with few Ioniqs and a couple L40s but I've yet to see an L24/30.

    Tesla tell a great story but underneath a lot of it is BS.....

    Central European countries will move once the likes of VW push the ID out in big number....the eGolf is about to be replaced and VW are still selling more than they can make.....but it will still be a long time before they trickle down to second user market....it will be 20 years before a diesel is actually banned, that’s a fair bit of time


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    #1420
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Tesla tell a great story but underneath a lot of it is BS.....

    Central European countries will move once the likes of VW push the ID out in big number....the eGolf is about to be replaced and VW are still selling more than they can make.....but it will still be a long time before they trickle down to second user market....it will be 20 years before a diesel is actually banned, that’s a fair bit of time

    VW will move when EU fines come in, they are being forced into making EV's, no great story


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    #1421
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,696 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Well as ELM327 pointed out, it is also NOx which is killing you slowly.....


    But sure you have a carry a PC with you :P
    Probably afraid of battery in laptop degradation.


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    #1422
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Probably afraid of battery in laptop degradation.

    Why you joining in with him with the mocking?

    Guy said he has to carry his PC and few monitors etc for work, his tools


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    #1423
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,696 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Why you joining in with him with the mocking?

    Guy said he has to carry his PC and few monitors etc for work, his tools


    Ah just a bit of acting the maggot on my behalf there I suppose Mike9832.
    Nothing more than the anti-EV brigade on here does though. Posing extreme corner cases as the reason why EVs are rubbish etc


    Mr Shefwedfan can be a bit of an EVangelist but at least he's realistic and right most of the time.


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    #1424
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Ah just a bit of acting the maggot on my behalf there I suppose Mike9832.
    Nothing more than the anti-EV brigade on here does though. Posing extreme corner cases as the reason why EVs are rubbish etc


    Mr Shefwedfan can be a bit of an EVangelist but at least he's realistic and right most of the time.


    Bit of a EVangelist but still have a big 2ltr diesel sitting in the driveway :p:p


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    #1425
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    ELM327 wrote: »
    The train is not , nor will it ever be, a substitute for a private car.
    It doesn't ahve the same level of functionality (At will travel), and is often more expensive than a car .. especially a car with more than 1 occupant

    I agree a lot with shefwedfan when it comes to EVs but I staunchly disagree with this public transport BS. It is never a replacement for private transport. Too restrictive, too expensive, and you have to sit with the great unwashed.

    This all conveniently ignores the purchase price of the car of course...


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    #1426
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,601 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    GreeBo wrote: »
    This all conveniently ignores the purchase price of the car of course...

    Ignoring the high price of owning a car in Ireland definitely skews conversations about public vs. private transport.

    Purchase price including VRT. and insurance costs are high. If the car is pre. 2008 the Motor Tax is high. These factors tend to make the opportunity cost of using the car more viable as opposed to using bus or train. If there are two or more passengers the car becomes even more attractive.


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    #1427
    MightyMunster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Bizarre requirements seem to be common on this thread....

    Sure you'd have to bring the whole lot home every weekend as well 😂


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    #1428
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Ah just a bit of acting the maggot on my behalf there I suppose Mike9832.
    Nothing more than the anti-EV brigade on here does though. Posing extreme corner cases as the reason why EVs are rubbish etc


    Mr Shefwedfan can be a bit of an EVangelist but at least he's realistic and right most of the time.

    I love EVs, fully committed to getting one, but right now they're no more than an expensive second car. You still need a petrol or diesel for longer distances, towing, or moving outside your comfort zone.


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    #1429
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    I love EVs, fully committed to getting one, but right now they're no more than an expensive second car. You still need a petrol or diesel for longer distances, towing, or moving outside your comfort zone.


    It seems everyone on boards suddenly love nothing better than towing stuff around :P my mate is selling a trailer because he hasn't used it in 2 years since he bought it, want to buy it?

    Not sure what the comfort zone comment is about?


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    #1430
    paleoperson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    Alright, seems there are a few posters here determined to argue that living with one hand tied behind their back is just as good and they scarcely notice any difference, coming up with convoluted counterpoints to any objection. And fine, go ahead. Most people are already juggling enough balls in their lives without adding a few more EV would bring. You never know when anything unexpected might happen that requires you to use the car, and what then? Wait around a few hours? Like Twenty Grand says it's fine for a second car, other than that doesn't make a lot of sense.


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    #1431
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    paleoperson wrote: »
    Alright, seems there are a few posters here determined to argue that living with one hand tied behind their back is just as good and they scarcely notice any difference, coming up with convoluted counterpoints to any objection. And fine, go ahead. Most people are already juggling enough balls in their lives without adding a few more EV would bring. You never know when anything unexpected might happen that requires you to use the car, and what then? Wait around a few hours? Like Twenty Grand says it's fine for a second car, other than that doesn't make a lot of sense.




    Why are you waiting around for a few hours?


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    #1432
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Why are you waiting around for a few hours?

    Because the one working charger has a car parked in it and the owner has gone shopping.


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    #1433
    Wtf ?
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 343 ✭✭Wtf ?


    They used chargers in the film Papillon but its was used to hide their stash up their .... !


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    #1434
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,676 ✭✭✭creedp


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    It seems everyone on boards suddenly love nothing better than towing stuff around :P my mate is selling a trailer because he hasn't used it in 2 years since he bought it, want to buy it?

    Not sure what the comfort zone comment is about?


    In fairness you are a perfect e.g. of a person for whom an EV is perfect as a 2nd car. The reality is EVs, for a number of reason including the need to tow, are not suitable for for everyone. Yet this argument continues to ramble on ....


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    #1435
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,757 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    creedp wrote: »
    In fairness you are a perfect e.g. of a person for whom an EV is perfect as a 2nd car. The reality is EVs, for a number of reason including the need to tow, are not suitable for for everyone. Yet this argument continues to ramble on ....

    I’ve never tow’d anything in my life.
    I’ve never driven Dublin to cork in my life.

    The 2 main arguments what EV’s won’t catch on seemly on here.

    I don’t need a jeep so I don’t have one, I don’t need an estate so I don’t buy one. I bought a car that suits me at present. Buy the car that suits you at that time. You’d swear EV’s were being shoved down peoples necks the way the hysteria is in this thread (although I suspect a lot of posters are trolling tbh, especially when you see they spend most their time in AH).


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    #1436
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,601 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    kceire wrote: »
    I’ve never tow’d anything in my life.
    I’ve never driven Dublin to cork in my life.

    The 2 main arguments what EV’s won’t catch on seemly on here.

    I don’t need a jeep so I don’t have one, I don’t need an estate so I don’t buy one. I bought a car that suits me at present. Buy the car that suits you at that time. You’d swear EV’s were being shoved down peoples necks the way the hysteria is in this thread (although I suspect a lot of posters are trolling tbh, especially when you see they spend most their time in AH).

    If you haven't towed it's because you didn't need to.
    Dublin to Cork you haven't missed much.

    Agree with you about buying the car that suits you.

    Not sure about hysteria but there is a lot of concern out there that the cars people are used to ie. ICE are about to become a lot more expensive to buy and run.

    Maybe some are trolling but fear of another 2008 style debacle is real.


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    #1437
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    elperello wrote: »
    If you haven't towed it's because you didn't need to.
    Dublin to Cork you haven't missed much.

    Agree with you about buying the car that suits you.

    Not sure about hysteria but there is a lot of concern out there that the cars people are used to ie. ICE are about to become a lot more expensive to buy and run.

    Maybe some are trolling but fear of another 2008 style debacle is real.


    2008 was a change made by the Irish government. The switch to alternative fuels is been made by the World.....


    yes lots of hysteria, just read the comments on here, the amount of pub talk is incredible.....



    In 2008, which is over 10 years ago now, they introduced a new tax system, in reality this reduced tax for most people.....what is the debacle you are talking about?


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    #1438
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    A lot more happened in 2008 than just the changes in car tax, but they could do a Norway and make it painful to buy new ICE cars.
    Or another major recession could scupper everything.


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    #1439
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,601 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    2008 was a change made by the Irish government. The switch to alternative fuels is been made by the World.....


    yes lots of hysteria, just read the comments on here, the amount of pub talk is incredible.....



    In 2008, which is over 10 years ago now, they introduced a new tax system, in reality this reduced tax for most people.....what is the debacle you are talking about?

    It really doesn't matter to the ordinary car owner whether the change is coming from our own government or international trends. If it hits them in the pocket they will naturally react negatively.

    I'm still not seeing hysteria. Pub talk is just that.Ignore it if you don't want to engage.

    You are correct that tax was reduced but it was for those who could afford newer cars. The less well off are still caught in a trap paying €500 + motor tax for very ordinary cars. That's the debacle, 10 years x €250 extra taken out of their pockets.


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    #1440
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A lot more happened in 2008 than just the changes in car tax, but they could do a Norway and make it painful to buy new ICE cars.
    Or another major recession could scupper everything.


    What happened? the over reaction is incredible.


    People with a 2005 car still paid the exact same tax in 2008 as they did in 2007.


    The Irish people decided it was better to spend large amounts of money to swap into a newer car fro cheap tax. Nobody seemed to understand paying 7-10k for a new car to reduce from 570 to 320 tax made no sense at all but people done it in their droves


    Even look at motors forum now and you have requests for a car and then in middle "cheap tax".....


    If they change the system in 2020 if you buy a car today you will still be paying the exact same amount of tax for that car in 2020, 2021, 2022 etc etc.....what is so scary?


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    #1441
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    elperello wrote: »
    You are correct that tax was reduced but it was for those who could afford newer cars. The less well off are still caught in a trap paying €500 + motor tax for very ordinary cars. That's the debacle, 10 years x €250 extra taken out of their pockets.


    Sorry but that makes no sense? if you could afford to pay 500+ tax in 2007 for a car what difference did it make in 2008???


    Why was 10 x 250 taken out of their pocket? if the system stayed the same they would have paid the same amount?



    I am astounded with that statement to be honest, it makes no sense to me at all.....


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