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ASTI ballot

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Comments

  • #652
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    Sir123 wrote: »
    Some teachers were three months as they would have had two three month increment freezes under Haddington Road.(New Increment date 1st March). Other teachers with an increment date usually in September who weren't penalised under Haddington Road, who would have started after the freezing of increments, effectively had a 9 month freeze as their increment in September 2016 wasn't paid until June 2017.

    The Dept just need to restore everyone to their proper point. Fair is fair.

    banks are paying millions in compo to customers who were wrongly taken off trackers as they had a right to be on them. if courts find gov had no right to remove increments from us and us alone, do we not get compo for distress etc...


  • #653
    gaiscioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭gaiscioch


    Regarding compensation, I want aggravated damages and damages for victimisation for that time we got all the cuts while Labour ministers increased the salaries of all their advisors. Yes, just for that contrast. Yes, FG were also at it but Labour was supposed to be on our side. Am I the only one to remember that? Labour's "reform" in government: "Do as we say, not as we do".

    Just to jog your memories, these cuts to teachers were at the same time as the secretary general of the very same "reforming" Department of Education retired at the age of 53 on a pension of €114,000 per annum for the rest of her life (on top of her after tax lumpsum of €204,000): Senior civil servant to get €114,000 pension at 53

    When Gilmore stood up in the 2011 election to tell us that he believed Ireland's best days were still to come - yes, some of us were naive enough to listen to all that - he omitted to mention that by Ireland he meant the clique of smoked salmon socialists around him and it was the rest of us who would be taking the beatings.

    Don't worry, current Labour election candidates - I've totally forgotten this already.


  • #654
    doc_17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,972 ✭✭✭doc_17


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Sir123 wrote: »
    Some teachers were three months as they would have had two three month increment freezes under Haddington Road.(New Increment date 1st March). Other teachers with an increment date usually in September who weren't penalised under Haddington Road, who would have started after the freezing of increments, effectively had a 9 month freeze as their increment in September 2016 wasn't paid until June 2017.

    The Dept just need to restore everyone to their proper point. Fair is fair.

    banks are paying millions in compo to customers who were wrongly taken off trackers as they had a right to be on them. if courts find gov had no right to remove increments from us and us alone, do we not get compo for distress etc...

    The Gov will argue that that they had the authority to do what they did under FEMPI. The Union will argue that they were unfairly treated as the nurses did not have FEMPI applied to them.


  • #655
    Benicetomonty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭Benicetomonty


    doc_17 wrote: »
    The Gov will argue that that they had the authority to do what they did under FEMPI. The Union will argue that they were unfairly treated as the nurses did not have FEMPI applied to them.

    Open and shut discrimination case you would think. Moreso when you consider the nurses went on strike in spite of their acceptance of the PSSA and the ASTI took industrial action having rejected Lansdowne. Don't know how the Gov will get out of this one but no doubt they will.

    Surely if it goes all the way and the ASTI were to win, that would mean the increment would revert to the correct dates and the money lost by members would have to be refunded.


  • #656
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    FEMPI should not be in place 5 years after we left the bailout. If FG/FF/LAB and SF ever wonder why their votes are pretty stagnant-this is one of the causes. and Yes SF -do support FEMPI

    The problem is the rest of the left is so disunited.


  • #657
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Just checked with SF. They are only party to commit to pay equality with a time frame. 2020


  • #658
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Bobtheman wrote:
    Just checked with SF. They are only party to commit to pay equality with a time frame. 2020


    Safe in the knowledge that it will never be something that they can force.


  • #659
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Safe in the knowledge that it will never be something that they can force.



    I think you are being facetious. The costings are part of an alternative budget in 2019. A promise is at least a start. All the other Major Parties- FF,FG,LAb have no such promise.
    Sf are likely to be in power or have a shot at being in power after the next election.
    Can you say that for the PBP,Soc Party local ind?
    Im not a member of SF. I have never voted for them up to now but Im at the point where I probably will.

    Sick of the rest


  • #660
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Just checked with SF. They are only party to commit to pay equality with a time frame. 2020

    And take it away again and more with increased taxes targeted to the high earners in their eyes.


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  • #661
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    salonfire wrote: »
    And take it away again and more with increased taxes targeted to the high earners in their eyes.

    sounds great


  • #662
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    SligoBrewer wrote: »
    sounds great

    I presume salonfire is categorizing teachers as 'high earners' :pac:


  • #663
    killbillvol2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭killbillvol2


    gaiscioch wrote: »
    Regarding compensation, I want aggravated damages and damages for victimisation for that time we got all the cuts while Labour ministers increased the salaries of all their advisors. Yes, just for that contrast. Yes, FG were also at it but Labour was supposed to be on our side. Am I the only one to remember that? Labour's "reform" in government: "Do as we say, not as we do".

    Just to jog your memories, these cuts to teachers were at the same time as the secretary general of the very same "reforming" Department of Education retired at the age of 53 on a pension of €114,000 per annum for the rest of her life (on top of her after tax lumpsum of €204,000): Senior civil servant to get €114,000 pension at 53

    When Gilmore stood up in the 2011 election to tell us that he believed Ireland's best days were still to come - yes, some of us were naive enough to listen to all that - he omitted to mention that by Ireland he meant the clique of smoked salmon socialists around him and it was the rest of us who would be taking the beatings.

    Don't worry, current Labour election candidates - I've totally forgotten this already.

    I raised this point at the door the other night with a Labour candidate. Her defence was that FG were in govt too. I explained that I expected FG to **** us over but that Labour had run on a platform of mitigating FG's cuts.

    As to SF, it's easy to make promises when you'll never be in government.


  • #664
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    I presume salonfire is categorizing teachers as 'high earners' :pac:

    I'm pointing out that Sinn Fein would categorise teachers as well into the high earners band and so would be in line for sustained and increased tax and USC, thus negating any promised pay increase from them.


  • #665
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    salonfire wrote: »
    I'm pointing out that Sinn Fein would categorise teachers as well into the high earners band and so would be in line for sustained and increased tax and USC, thus negating any promised pay increase from them.

    And why would they do that now?


  • #666
    doc_17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,972 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Safe in the knowledge that it will never be something that they can force.



    I think you are being facetious. The costings are part of an alternative budget in 2019. A promise is at least a start. All the other Major Parties- FF,FG,LAb have no such promise.
    Sf are likely to be in power or have a shot at being in power after the next election.
    Can you say that for the PBP,Soc Party local ind?
    Im not a member of SF. I have never voted for them up to now but Im at the point where I probably will.

    Sick of the rest

    This is how SF might ultimately get into power. People get fed up of everyone else and think they are the answer. And you know what, the longer FG/FF have in power then the better case they make for SF.


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  • #667
    doc_17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,972 ✭✭✭doc_17


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    salonfire wrote: »
    I'm pointing out that Sinn Fein would categorise teachers as well into the high earners band and so would be in line for sustained and increased tax and USC, thus negating any promised pay increase from them.

    And why would they do that now?
    evolving_doors wrote: »
    salonfire wrote: »
    I'm pointing out that Sinn Fein would categorise teachers as well into the high earners band and so would be in line for sustained and increased tax and USC, thus negating any promised pay increase from them.

    And why would they do that now?

    They have a figure of over €100,000 as being high earners. But two teachers married would make them a high income family. That was in their manifesto somewhere for the last GE.


  • #668
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    salonfire wrote: »
    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Just checked with SF. They are only party to commit to pay equality with a time frame. 2020

    And take it away again and more with increased taxes targeted to the high earners in their eyes.
    Can you point to the page you are reading from their policy document??


  • #669
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    salonfire wrote: »
    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Just checked with SF. They are only party to commit to pay equality with a time frame. 2020

    And take it away again and more with increased taxes targeted to the high earners in their eyes.
    Can you point to the policy document to prove that ? Genuine question


  • #670
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    doc_17 wrote: »
    They have a figure of over €100,000 as being high earners. But two teachers married would make them a high income family. That was in their manifesto somewhere for the last GE.

    It's 100k per individual.
    Taxing Joint income of 100k is BS. They'd never make a quota.


  • #671
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    I think the figure of 100k is a single income not joint


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  • #672
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Bottom line is the public sector can either abandon the FF/FG/lab trokia or continue to take it up the ass.
    There are credible alternatives. But heck let's watch a box set rather than read an actual policy?


  • #673
    acequion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭acequion


    I'd be inclined to agree with Bobtheman. This hostility against SF is more of the same entrenched political thinking that has caused the stranglehold of FF, FG and their various coalitions since the foundation of this state. And if we haven't learned about FF or FG style governance by now, we'll never learn. Fine if you like them, but what about some real change for a change?

    Now, probably part of the entrenched political thinking myself, I've never voted SF. Nor would I be mad about the SF incumbents in my region. But I'll certainly consider them in the next GE. It has been a while since I voted mainstream as I went for Independents in the last GE but it doesn't look like you'll get an alternative Govt out of them. And I want an alternative.

    Bringing all this back on topic, I'm obviously thinking about what's best for my profession and for my pocket as a public servant. And one thing I'm 100% of, that ain't FG!


  • #674
    2011abc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭2011abc


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    I think the figure of 100k is a single income not joint

    Even if we were taxed more heavily if the health system was dragged out of the abyss we wouldn’t all need €2-3k worth of health insurance .This shower got to govern us half way back to the tenements with only 27% of vote .For Gods sake and our kids don’t let them do it again ( and choose SF before FF , the same billionaires bribe the latter as FG )


  • #675
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    acequion wrote: »
    I'd be inclined to agree with Bobtheman. This hostility against SF is more of the same entrenched political thinking that has caused the stranglehold of FF, FG and their various coalitions since the foundation of this state. And if we haven't learned about FF or FG style governance by now, we'll never learn. Fine if you like them, but what about some real change for a change?

    Now, probably part of the entrenched political thinking myself, I've never voted SF. Nor would I be mad about the SF incumbents in my region. But I'll certainly consider them in the next GE. It has been a while since I voted mainstream as I went for Independents in the last GE but it doesn't look like you'll get an alternative Govt out of them. And I want an alternative.

    Bringing all this back on topic, I'm obviously thinking about what's best for my profession and for my pocket as a public servant. And one thing I'm 100% of, that ain't FG!

    Where'd did the various pay increases in the last few years come from?

    Where'd the decreases in tax and USC(through rates and threshold raises come from)?

    Who pulled the country back from falling over the edge of a cliff when the country was running on others' money?

    All this had no benefit to you, or your profession? Really?


  • #676
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    salonfire wrote: »
    Where'd did the various pay increases in the last few years come from?

    Where'd the decreases in tax and USC(through rates and threshold raises come from)?

    Who pulled the country back from falling over the edge of a cliff when the country was running on others' money?

    All this had no benefit to you, or your profession? Really?

    increases??
    Restoration which was agreed.


    And thanks for thanking the public service too.


  • #677
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    increases??
    Restoration which was agreed.


    And thanks for thanking the public service too.

    Exactly, delivered by FG who are the best of a bad bunch IMO; who have pulled the country around at least twice if not three times in the past after FF's antics.


  • #678
    acequion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭acequion


    salonfire wrote: »
    Where'd did the various pay increases in the last few years come from?

    Where'd the decreases in tax and USC(through rates and threshold raises come from)?

    Who pulled the country back from falling over the edge of a cliff when the country was running on others' money?

    All this had no benefit to you, or your profession? Really?

    Oh come on will you!! "Benefit to me and my profession!" You really are taking the pyss! I've less take home pay now then I had 13 years ago and I have to work a lot more hours in working conditions which are vastly worse than they used to be, making me both exhausted and broke. Hardly beneficial to anyone, I would say. And of course many to most of those inferior conditions are here to stay as is a substantial part of the overall pay cut. Never waste a good recession and all that!

    And as for the pay increases of the last few years, again you're having a laugh! Since when did restoration = increase? And said restoration barely keeps us in line with inflation!

    Pulled us back from the brink! Yes and who paid for it? The bankers? The super rich? Failed,retired politicians? I think you know full well who paid to get us all back from the brink! And some of us are still paying!

    And I never said I wanted FF back. What I said is that I want a real alternative. Maybe there isn't one. But voting for the same shower again and again, while they screw the middle income groups again and again, is not going to change anything.


  • #679
    km79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,254 ✭✭✭✭km79


    Isn’t there a politics forum for this ?


  • #680
    acequion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭acequion


    Yes there is. But as state employees the political administration is of crucial importance to us. In my second last post I brought it back on topic. I think it's hugely relevant, much more relevant, in fact, than who might be the current president of any of the teacher unions.


  • #681
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Pay increase?? Salaries were cut and unlike any other profession more was asked for less money. They had to pass emergency legislation to do that trick. So it was only giving back what was taken
    FG didn't object to 100% mortgages. FG didn't object to crazy bank lending. They were calling for spending increases in 2007 just as the wheels started to come off the economy
    To be fair to Ritchie bruton he did object to benchmarking and warned about return of of tax incentives for investors in housing but besides that he and FG were as bad as FF for not seeing the crash coming
    They also voted for the bank guarantee
    So you can go and do the physically impossible if you think I will thank FG


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  • #682
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    salonfire wrote: »
    Exactly, delivered by FG who are the best of a bad bunch IMO; who have pulled the country around at least twice if not three times in the past after FF's antics.

    Delivered by FG? What? You sound like a proud mammy or something.
    This came about from the Fianna Fáil government's days.

    and it was the teachers who 'delivered' the pain, all while FG broke the pay cap just for their own buddy advisors, just when FEMPI had begun.

    www.thejournal.ie/irish-government-ministers-special-advisers-names-salaries-2016-2573368-Jan2016/%3famp=1


  • #683
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    km79 wrote: »
    Isn’t there a politics forum for this ?

    Yes, but it's a serious question that teachers need to think about.


  • #684
    km79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,254 ✭✭✭✭km79


    SligoBrewer wrote: »
    km79 wrote: »
    Isn’t there a politics forum for this ?

    Yes, but it's a serious question that teachers need to think about.
    And we know which forum to go to if we want to
    Alternatively set up a seperate thread ..........
    The last relevant on topic post on this thread was over 2 pages ago. I don't think I should be forced to unfollow an important thread on asti action just because it has been derailed


  • #685
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    km79 wrote: »
    And we know which forum to go to if we want to
    Alternatively set up a seperate thread ..........
    The last relevant on topic post on this thread was over 2 pages ago. I don't think I should be forced to unfollow an important thread on asti action just because it has been derailed

    So when's the ASTI ballot?
    Or did we have one already?


  • #686
    happywithlife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭happywithlife


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/29/new-zealand-schools-hit-by-mega-strike-as-50000-teachers-walk-out

    New Zealand teachers from the primary & high school sector have joined for a mega strike - teacher shortages; burn out; & a pay increase (restoration? I'm not sure) are cited In the article as reasons for the strike.
    Do you think unions in Ireland would ever unite in such a show of common unity ? For any reason?.


  • #687
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    I'd love to see such a strike but at the moment the members have not moved in that direction rather the younger members are either emigrating or apathetic. Not all but a lot.


  • #688
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    happywithlife wrote: »
    Do you think unions in Ireland would ever unite in such a show of common unity ? For any reason?.
    No, certain 3 letter union for second level would probably do a deal behind closed doors to stymie the strike, and then keep publicising how hard they are fighting for us.


  • #689
    doc_17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,972 ✭✭✭doc_17


    There isn’t even unity within a certain union with a 4 letter name at second level.

    So for them to be calling out other unions who accepted a deal is a little stupid.


  • #690
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    doc_17 wrote: »
    There isn’t even unity within a certain union with a 4 letter name at second level.

    So for them to be calling out other unions who accepted a deal is a little stupid.

    Wanna tell me when the ASTI membership or CEC were not united on this issue?

    FYI, it was a ****ing cold day when we stood on the picket line while the TUI were toasty doing their JCT training.


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  • #691
    acequion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭acequion


    In fact ASTI has a mandate for strike action if the other two would only get a move on!! ASTI are the only crowd who've done anything and granted while there's a lot of dead wood who want to do nothing the majority still support action.

    Only a united campaign by all three will bring results. Will we ever see it?


  • #692
    doc_17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,972 ✭✭✭doc_17


    SligoBrewer wrote: »
    doc_17 wrote: »
    There isn’t even unity within a certain union with a 4 letter name at second level.

    So for them to be calling out other unions who accepted a deal is a little stupid.

    Wanna tell me when the ASTI membership or CEC were not united on this issue?

    FYI, it was a ****ing cold day when we stood on the picket line while the TUI were toasty doing their JCT training.

    When they received the signatures and had to call a special meeting and decided not to repudiate and suspended their action. The membership had deep unease about the direction they were being led and they acted and the action finished.

    Are the TUI not allowed to accept or reject their deals based on the votes of their members anymore?

    And FYI, ASTI are in the latest PSSA agreement even though they rejected it. The membership have said no but the leadership have said yes it would appear.

    A joint campaign would be the only way, and by that I mean not only teaching, but PS wide.


  • #693
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    acequion wrote: »
    In fact ASTI has a mandate for strike action if the other two would only get a move on!! ASTI are the only crowd who've done anything and granted while there's a lot of dead wood who want to do nothing the majority still support action.

    Only a united campaign by all three will bring results. Will we ever see it?

    Well Sheila Nunan might finally have some time for her members when she's finished eating electoral humble pie.


  • #694
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    evolving_doors wrote:
    Well Sheila Nunan might finally have some time for her members when she's finished eating electoral humble pie.

    No longer involved with us(INTO).


  • #695
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    You got to hand it to any Labour politician trying to get elected.


  • #696
    gaiscioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭gaiscioch


    Just confirming that our increment date from now on is from 4 days ago, 10 June? I remember my initial contract started a few weeks after the start of September (even though I was in the school from day 1 of that year; I think the principal just forgot to get the forms in). Will my increment be a few weeks after 10 June, or have we all just been put back to 10 June?

    Also, according to the ASTI website here we are due to get a 1.75% pay restoration this coming September:
    1st September 2019: 1.75% pay increase
    1st January 2020: Pension levy threshold revised upwards to €34,500
    1st October 2020: 2% pay increase


    Anything else that I'm missing?


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  • #697
    ethical
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ethical


    As far as I know all ASTI members now have a date of 10th June for increments.So you will probably see it on your next payslip .......or the one after that.You do realise that the ETBs have now to deal with several increment dates for many different teachers/contracts and were never given any extra staff to deal with it........and furthermore their computer systems are not the most up to date!

    The increments freezes were a pain in the pocket.......but the ASTI are taking a court case over this as far as I know so we may go back to our "old" increment dates when HQ win the case........and they will win !!!
    Do not expect Prudent Paschal to pay any "back money" though!


  • #698
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    ethical wrote: »
    As far as I know all ASTI members now have a date of 10th June for increments.So you will probably see it on your next payslip .......or the one after that.You do realise that the ETBs have now to deal with several increment dates for many different teachers/contracts and were never given any extra staff to deal with it........and furthermore their computer systems are not the most up to date!

    The increments freezes were a pain in the pocket.......but the ASTI are taking a court case over this as far as I know so we may go back to our "old" increment dates when HQ win the case........and they will win !!!
    Do not expect Prudent Paschal to pay any "back money" though!

    Dismal Donoghue owes every single one of us every cent of it since he didn't punish the nurses.


  • #699
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    1.75%, pay increase? Be still my beating heart. They can stuff it. Instead the government can tackle highest mortgage and childcare costs in the EU. Id say insurance highest in EU too. Yet many here vote FG/FF. Beggars belief.


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