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Random Running Questions

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    #362
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    veganrun wrote: »
    How do people get picked to compete at the nationals each year? Can anyone just enter or do you need to be nominated by a club or something?


    you need to belong to a club, AFAIK.


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    #363
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    MrCreosote wrote: »
    There is absolutely zero difference between running with a pacer, and "racing" some randomer just ahead of you, except that in one you're being guided to a time, and in the other to a position.

    I disagree, a pacer is not decide "right we've 2k to go, I'm going to surge and try and drop this guy whose been sitting on me for the last 4k". You might decide to go with a gain an extra 20 seconds in that last 2k.


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    #364
    Itziger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,016 ✭✭✭Itziger


    pconn062 wrote: »
    I disagree, a pacer is not decide "right we've 2k to go, I'm going to surge and try and drop this guy whose been sitting on me for the last 4k". You might decide to go with a gain an extra 20 seconds in that last 2k.

    PConn, it goes on and on. The difference couldn't be bloody greater. I'll give you two small examples from my most recent race. A couple of years ago I ran this Half and beat the first woman home by about 20 secs if I recall correctly. Finished in a pb of 1:26. So this year I was targeting 1.22.xx and as we start, I notice 2 or 3 women heading off ahead of me. I kind of stupidly thought, 'I should be up with them' (No logic there!) After less than a km I had to decide whether to go with them or ease back. I eased back and thanks very much. In the end I got the 1.22.xx and a nice pb and finished about 2 seconds behind the 3rd female.

    In the same race with about 6 or 7 km to go I was sitting 20 metres behind two fellas. I said to myself, lad, this is going to be a long run home if you don't make an effort now and latch on to them. I made that effort and stayed just behind em for a couple of k's. Then I noticed I was a bit more comfortable and was running into the back of the lads. Quick look at the watch confirmed the pace had dropped a little. Had to make the call, push on and head for home on your tod with 4 to go or take it easy here and sprint with 400 to go. So I went for it. Really enjoyed the last few kms as I could hear one of the blokes behind me and I was determined he wouldn't come past. In the end I beat him and we had a little chat and a 'well run' at the finish. There's no goddamn way I would have got the same kick or experience from running that Half with a couple of balloon-boys with 1.22.xx scribbled on em!

    End of rant/rave!!


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    #365
    MrCreosote
    Registered Users Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭MrCreosote


    But you were still pacing off the guys ahead of you, and your watch. Whether they knew they were pacing you or not hardly matters- in the end it's the same as running with the balloon person! Nothing wrong with it, but I don't think someone can say one way is somehow better than the other...


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    #366
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    MrCreosote wrote: »
    But you were still pacing off the guys ahead of you, and your watch. Whether they knew they were pacing you or not hardly matters- in the end it's the same as running with the balloon person! Nothing wrong with it, but I don't think someone can say one way is somehow better than the other...


    In theory I think pacers are a great concept, but I can honestly say I haven't yet found them of any use at all, and more often than not they hinder me. It's probably just a personal thing, but I can't run with a paced group, and there have been far more occasions when a pacer leaves me behind than he has dragged me along to a time.


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    #367
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    A pace maker in a big race is certainly useful, but in a big race with a few thousand taking part you can't really be racing against anyone because they are just a bunch of random peoples backs who you don't recognise in front of you. If you happen top spot a club vest up in front you may try and chase them down, but it's not really racing still as they probably crossed the start line a couple of minutes before you. In that race to get a good time it will help to have a baloon to follow, or keep ahead of, because they then become that thing that you are "racing" against.

    Now in a smaller local race where you'll be racing the same people from one week to the next in similar distances, you'll recognise the same people up in front and want to be trying to get as close as you can to them, one week you'll have a blinder and catch them, think they were having a shocker of a day, then look at the watch and realise that they wern't and you have just smashed your time by racing against that person who you've been chasing down all this time. In those races a baloon to follow will hold you back as although 99% of us here are only really ever racing for times rather than positions, on the smaller races you should be trying to catch that person in front rather than holding yourself back by using a pacer.


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    #368
    krafty
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭krafty


    Questions for the 100m and 200m sprinters, or those in the know. Would it be normal for you to run 200m faster per metre than 100m? Does the longer time at high speed in 200m balance the time lost in accelerating to high speed in the 100m? Or is this irrelevant because most sprinters have a clear speciality for one distance over the other?


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    #369
    Clearlier
    Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    krafty wrote: »
    Questions for the 100m and 200m sprinters, or those in the know. Would it be normal for you to run 200m faster per metre than 100m? Does the longer time at high speed in 200m balance the time lost in accelerating to high speed in the 100m? Or is this irrelevant because most sprinters have a clear speciality for one distance over the other?

    Not a sprinter but a quick look at records will tell you that the 200 is run more quickly per metre than the 100. The main reason is that the start, pick up and acceleration phases are the slowest parts of the race and they form a smaller portion of the 200 than the 100. As an aside IIRC the max speed will be higher in the 100 than the 200.


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    #370
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    What do you do when you have people who have literally just decided in the last 2 days to start training for a marathon that's 10 weeks away and they're coming to talk to you about it?

    Today I had a fella come to me. A fella who probably hadn't even ran for a bus on 10 years but who today did his first training run for DCM which was 7 miles. I don't think he has a hope of doing this for 10 weeks without getting injured. He'd probably actually have a better chance if he showed up on October 27th having done no training at all.

    And he's not the only one asking me about it.

    But the thing is. It's not just a matter of doing what I might normally do.......laugh in their faces, tell them to cop the **** on and start training now for DCM 2015. The reasons why these people are targeting THIS marathon at this time are serious and very very sensitive. And muggings here is who put the idea of doing it into their heads to do it in the first place.

    So the question ( which might be ridiculous)

    Is there any such thing as a plan anywhere that could get people of very average fitness to a position where they could complete a marathon in 10 weeks.

    Do I just tell them not to do any running in training at all and just train to walk it all? Which is kinda what I've tried to get across so far...... I don't think with very much success though.


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    #371
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Tell them to practice a run walk strategy, where the run us very, very slow. If they try to run the whole time it will hurt


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    #372
    pointer28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,354 ✭✭✭pointer28


    Are track races always run counter clockwise and if so, is there any particular reason why?


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    #373
    JohnDozer
    Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Sorry for hijacking previous question, but it reminded me of something I've wondered previously. For those who run loops as opposed to out and back, do you have a default direction you head, ie clockwise or anti-clockwise? I seem to have some inbuilt thing to head clockwise on a loop. I really have to make a conscious effort to run the opposite direction.


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    #374
    Gringo78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭Gringo78


    pointer28 wrote: »
    Are track races always run counter clockwise and if so, is there any particular reason why?

    For the same reason that water swirls counter clockwise down a sink - running counter clockwise around a track takes advantage of the earth's movement and thus times will be faster when running counter clockwise round a track (northern hemisphere only). Sir Isaac Newton was big into athletics and it was he who first proposed this as standard for athletics meets. FACT.


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    #375
    Itziger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,016 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    What do you do when you have people who have literally just decided in the last 2 days to start training for a marathon that's 10 weeks away and they're coming to talk to you about it?

    Today I had a fella come to me. A fella who probably hadn't even ran for a bus on 10 years but who today did his first training run for DCM which was 7 miles. I don't think he has a hope of doing this for 10 weeks without getting injured. He'd probably actually have a better chance if he showed up on October 27th having done no training at all.

    And he's not the only one asking me about it.

    But the thing is. It's not just a matter of doing what I might normally do.......laugh in their faces, tell them to cop the **** on and start training now for DCM 2015. The reasons why these people are targeting THIS marathon at this time are serious and very very sensitive. And muggings here is who put the idea of doing it into their heads to do it in the first place.

    So the question ( which might be ridiculous)

    Is there any such thing as a plan anywhere that could get people of very average fitness to a position where they could complete a marathon in 10 weeks.

    Do I just tell them not to do any running in training at all and just train to walk it all? Which is kinda what I've tried to get across so far...... I don't think with very much success though.

    My first question would be, 'what's the rush?'. There's always next year and the year after. Prepare properly, do a few 5 milers, 10k races. Move up and do a Half or two and then train for a marathon. This obsession with doing the Marathon from a hopeless base can only be counter productive. That's my tuppence worth.


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    #376
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Itziger wrote: »
    My first question would be, 'what's the rush?'. There's always next year and the year after. Prepare properly, do a few 5 milers, 10k races. Move up and do a Half or two and then train for a marathon. This obsession with doing the Marathon from a hopeless base can only be counter productive. That's my tuppence worth.

    As I've said. There's reasons. Not really comfortable explaining them here tho.


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    #377
    Itziger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,016 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    As I've said. There's reasons. Not really comfortable explaining them here tho.

    Ah, no problem, I missed the reasons bit then. Of course, some people will have a particular reason to do a marathon a specific year..... Fair enough.


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    #378
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Itziger wrote: »
    Ah, no problem, I missed the reasons bit then. Of course, some people will have a particular reason to do a marathon a specific year..... Fair enough.

    Ha. Your grand.
    Apparently I'm now the go-to Marathon expert of this group........ not really sure how that happened :D


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    #379
    nerraw1111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭nerraw1111


    Question re long runs.

    Does it matter what kind of terrain you do LSRs?

    For example, I would prefer to do LSR of hill running as I find some of the long road runs a bit dull. But given I'll be changing pace quite a bit, would I be losing out on the benefits (if any?) of running at a constant pace?


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    #380
    pointer28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,354 ✭✭✭pointer28


    nerraw1111 wrote: »
    Question re long runs.

    Does it matter what kind of terrain you do LSRs?

    For example, I would prefer to do LSR of hill running as I find some of the long road runs a bit dull. But given I'll be changing pace quite a bit, would I be losing out on the benefits (if any?) of running at a constant pace?

    I wouldn't have thought so, it's all about time on your feet, once you don't overdo it and spend 3 hours climbing mountains.


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    #381
    Clearlier
    Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    nerraw1111 wrote: »
    Question re long runs.

    Does it matter what kind of terrain you do LSRs?

    For example, I would prefer to do LSR of hill running as I find some of the long road runs a bit dull. But given I'll be changing pace quite a bit, would I be losing out on the benefits (if any?) of running at a constant pace?

    During base training I recommend off road where possible. During the specific phase of preparation I suggest similar terrain if possible to that which will be raced on.


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    #382
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,494 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    nerraw1111 wrote: »
    Question re long runs.

    Does it matter what kind of terrain you do LSRs?

    For example, I would prefer to do LSR of hill running as I find some of the long road runs a bit dull. But given I'll be changing pace quite a bit, would I be losing out on the benefits (if any?) of running at a constant pace?
    You don't have to change pace, just work harder on the hills and easier on the downhills. Also, be aware that downhill running causes more muscle damage and increases recovery time.

    Are you targeting a race? You should aim to run a similar profile to your target race

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    #383
    Clearlier
    Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    What do you do when you have people who have literally just decided in the last 2 days to start training for a marathon that's 10 weeks away and they're coming to talk to you about it?

    Today I had a fella come to me. A fella who probably hadn't even ran for a bus on 10 years but who today did his first training run for DCM which was 7 miles. I don't think he has a hope of doing this for 10 weeks without getting injured. He'd probably actually have a better chance if he showed up on October 27th having done no training at all.

    And he's not the only one asking me about it.

    But the thing is. It's not just a matter of doing what I might normally do.......laugh in their faces, tell them to cop the **** on and start training now for DCM 2015. The reasons why these people are targeting THIS marathon at this time are serious and very very sensitive. And muggings here is who put the idea of doing it into their heads to do it in the first place.

    So the question ( which might be ridiculous)

    Is there any such thing as a plan anywhere that could get people of very average fitness to a position where they could complete a marathon in 10 weeks.

    Do I just tell them not to do any running in training at all and just train to walk it all? Which is kinda what I've tried to get across so far...... I don't think with very much success though.

    Normally when designing a training plan you start with the end in mind and work out how to get there. Seeing as it's this marathon only though you need them to start from where they are, get as fit as they can without taking big risks for injury and prepare for a tough day. You are unlikely to find a specific training plan but a reasonable option would be to pick out one of the generic plans available that you judge they could start and have them do the first 9 weeks of it followed by a 50% taper for the tenth week.


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    #384
    nerraw1111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭nerraw1111


    Cheers for the replies.

    Probably Dublin in Oct.

    But would prefer doing the LSRs on trails etc. Moderate climbing, talking Ticknock, parts of Wicklow Way etc.


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    #385
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    I have a few really stupid questions so apologies in advance!
    I am doing a time trial on a track. I've never run on one before. It's ALSAA near airport if anyone knows it.

    Ok here goes. .
    Where do I start the tt? What part of the track? There doesn't seem to be any obvious starting point like you see on the tv in track races! Maybe I missed it though as I only had a quick look at it.
    I presume I run on the inside lane? If there are other people using it at the same time, do I just pick another lane? Is there some kind of etiquette regarding choice of lanes? Is it usual that lots of people do their own thing at the same time?
    If there's a club using it with lots of runners, does that mean they get priority over me and I should come back another time? The guy I spoke to didn't tell me to avoid it at certain times.
    Can I bring my bag with drink etc and put at side of track or middle section?
    I'm cringing as I write but I'm clueless so any advice appreciated!


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    #386
    Enduro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Enduro


    pointer28 wrote: »
    , once you don't overdo it and spend 3 hours climbing mountains.

    uh oh :eek: :)


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    #387
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Ososlo wrote: »
    I have a few really stupid questions so apologies in advance!
    I am doing a time trial on a track. I've never run on one before. It's ALSAA near airport if anyone knows it.

    Ok here goes. .
    Where do I start the tt? What part of the track? There doesn't seem to be any obvious starting point like you see on the tv in track races! Maybe I missed it though as I only had a quick look at it.


    Is it a5k time trial? Then you start in the corner diagonally opposite the finish line


    I presume I run on the inside lane? If there are other people using it at the same time, do I just pick another lane? Is there some kind of etiquette regarding choice of lanes? Is it usual that lots of people do their own thing at the same time?
    If there's a club using it with lots of runners, does that mean they get priority over me and I should come back another time? The guy I spoke to didn't tell me to avoid it at certain times.

    Run on the inside lane, other lanes mean you run further. If a club has booked the track they have priority, but ask and they may let you. You should be able to share the lane with other runners

    Can I bring my bag with drink etc and put at side of track or middle section?
    I'm cringing as I write but I'm clueless so any advice appreciated!

    Yeah, put it on the infield or a bit if the track that isn't marked in lanes. If there are a lot of people there, and some doing field events you might have to be more careful, ask or put your bag where they do


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    #388
    gerard_65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 763 ✭✭✭gerard_65


    Ososlo wrote: »
    I have a few really stupid questions so apologies in advance!
    I am doing a time trial on a track. I've never run on one before. It's ALSAA near airport if anyone knows it.

    Ok here goes. .
    Where do I start the tt? What part of the track? There doesn't seem to be any obvious starting point like you see on the tv in track races! Maybe I missed it though as I only had a quick look at it.
    I presume I run on the inside lane? If there are other people using it at the same time, do I just pick another lane? Is there some kind of etiquette regarding choice of lanes? Is it usual that lots of people do their own thing at the same time?
    If there's a club using it with lots of runners, does that mean they get priority over me and I should come back another time? The guy I spoke to didn't tell me to avoid it at certain times.
    Can I bring my bag with drink etc and put at side of track or middle section?
    I'm cringing as I write but I'm clueless so any advice appreciated!
    You can start anywhere you want, as long as you remember where to finish. you usually run counter-clockwise and start at the end of a straight (run into the bend)
    If there is no one else using it you can run on the inside lane, but sometimes these are blocked off to avoid wear and tear.
    You usually let faster runners on the inside lanes - ie if your doing 800s you leave the inside lanes to someone doing shorter intervals.
    You can leave your bag anywhere, as long as you can keep an eye on it and its not in anyone's way.
    Usually clubs book the track for their own use and you can't use it. Good idea to pick a time a club won't be on it, during the day? Tues, Thurs and Sat morning is usually when clubs train.


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    #389
    RoyMcC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭RoyMcC


    Ososlo wrote: »
    Where do I start the tt? What part of the track? There doesn't seem to be any obvious starting point like you see on the tv in track races! Maybe I missed it though as I only had a quick look at it.

    I'd be surprised if the ALSAA track didn't have markings. But if not then just pick a start/finish point.

    Definitely good etiquette to keep out of the two inside lanes (though fewer runners these days seem to appreciate this :mad:)

    Handy to know that, for each lane out from the inside lane the lap is approx. 7 metres longer, so you can adjust accordingly.


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    #390
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    RoyMcC wrote: »
    I'd be surprised if the ALSAA track didn't have markings. But if not then just pick a start/finish point.

    Definitely good etiquette to keep out of the two inside lanes (though fewer runners these days seem to appreciate this :mad:)

    Handy to know that, for each lane out from the inside lane the lap is approx. 7 metres longer, so you can adjust accordingly.

    I think Ososlo is wanting to do a 800m TT? If so i would definitely stick to the inside lane if it's possible. Going from lane 2/3 will add a lot of distance to your run (about 14m per lane if IIRC) and trying to measure distance on a track by GPS is pointless.


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    #391
    rom
    Registered Users Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭rom


    gerard_65 wrote: »
    You can start anywhere you want, as long as you remember where to finish. you usually run counter-clockwise and start at the end of a straight (run into the bend)
    If there is no one else using it you can run on the inside lane, but sometimes these are blocked off to avoid wear and tear.
    You usually let faster runners on the inside lanes - ie if your doing 800s you leave the inside lanes to someone doing shorter intervals.
    You can leave your bag anywhere, as long as you can keep an eye on it and its not in anyone's way.
    Usually clubs book the track for their own use and you can't use it. Good idea to pick a time a club won't be on it, during the day? Tues, Thurs and Sat morning is usually when clubs train.

    Never ever wear an ipod. If someone shouts "track" then you move out a lane.
    Warmup and cool down in a lane that is few lanes out if there are people on the track.

    Some garmins can do a lap based on position. You can always put your bag in the infield and use that as the start.

    Advisable to start a repeat from a moving start rather than from being stopped as your less likely to an injury on the push off.


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