Poppy

RandomName2 · 11-11-2018 2:01am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not denying that differing peoples were a part of empires (whether involuntarily or not). It's your rather simplistic statements that 'Poles were Germans' etc that I take issue with.

Well I mean, they were both. They were both Poles, and they were part of the second empire. In the same way that Catalonians are today Catalonian, and Spanish. If you say that Catalonians aren't Spanish, I mean you're just wrong, politically speaking. And I mean Catalonia even has devolved rule, which didn't even apply in the context of the previous conversation.

RandomName2 · 11-11-2018 2:05am

droidman123 wrote: »

Again you bring up my incorrect spelling of the word "sprinkling" and again more desperation from your tedious posts

No I didn't. I am bringing up the fact that you have nothing to provide here. You run away when confronted with your poorly thought out point of view, you straw-manned in a flailing attempt to avoid attention on your errors. Your final weak move is to try and attack my character, and you can't even really manage that.

I asked if you had anything to say, and you don't. Go back to thanking people who can do a better job than yourself.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2018 2:06am

RandomName2 wrote: »

You mean the plebs who recognize Dave Lordan as our greatest poet?

Sorry, that was a low blow.

You are going to dictate who people have as favorite poets now? Really? An artform as subjective as poetry? Really? What a loon.
A miltant art purist is another string to yer bow. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Who is Dave Lordan btw?

droidman123 · 11-11-2018 2:06am

RandomName2 wrote: »

No I didn't. I am bringing up the fact that you have nothing to provide here. You run away when confronted with your poorly thought out point of view, you straw-manned in a flailing attempt to avoid attention on your errors. Your final weak move is to try and attack my character, and you can't even really manage that.

I asked if you had anything to say, and you don't. Go back to thanking people who can do a better job than yourself.

I feel anger from you....put a poppy on and be happy

RandomName2 · 11-11-2018 2:09am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who is Dave Lordan btw?

Weren't you aware? Our greatest poet. Sure I mean, klaaz made an entire thread about him just a couple of days ago.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2018 2:13am

RandomName2 wrote: »

Weren't you aware? Our greatest poet. Sure I mean, klaaz made an entire thread about him just a couple of days ago.

It's an artform, anybody can make anybody 'the greatest poet'.
Pam Ayers was the greatest poet for the UK for a certain section at one time, so what?

If the poet delivers for someone, they have done their job. Are you a literary snob too?

klaaaz · 11-11-2018 2:16am

RandomName2 wrote: »

This doesn't make the Poles irrelevant, it just means they didn't have nationhood, and it's ridiculous to pretend that they did.

You don't know the difference between nationhood and statehood, that ain't poetry.
Can you imagine a Polish person seeing this poster's offensive posts against the Polish people? :eek:

11-11-2018 2:17am

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well I mean, they were both. They were both Poles, and they were part of the second empire. In the same way that Catalonians are today Catalonian, and Spanish. If you say that Catalonians aren't Spanish, I mean you're just wrong, politically speaking. And I mean Catalonia even has devolved rule, which didn't even apply in the context of the previous conversation.

Isn't it up to the Catalonians themselves to decide what they are surely, not you and I? People going around telling other people what they are has really caused a lot of problems don't you think?

RandomName2 · 11-11-2018 2:20am

Deleted User wrote: »

People going around telling other people what they are has really caused a lot of problems don't you think?

Well if that isn't the understatement of the century I don't know what is. Incidentally it's likely to get worse in Catalonia before it gets better.

mick malones mauser · 11-11-2018 2:20am

No poppy

Disgruntled Badger · 11-11-2018 2:29am

Wear the poppy with pride for the 200k Irishmen that fought for this country.

11-11-2018 2:35am

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well if that isn't the understatement of the century I don't know what is. Incidentally it's likely to get worse in Catalonia before it gets better.

I know its sounds a tad simplistic but you know its true. If Madrid hadn't acted in the stupid way that it did, a 'No' vote may have been returned in the 2017 referendum, since a number of polls indicated such an outcome.

votecounts · 11-11-2018 2:40am

Disgruntled Badger wrote: »

Wear the poppy with pride for the 200k Irishmen that fought for this country.

How many Irish people were murdered at the Hands of British scum.
No proper Irish person would ever wear a poppy just west brits looking to be the queens lapdog

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2018 2:59am

votecounts wrote: »

How many Irish people were murdered at the Hands of British scum.
No proper Irish person would ever wear a poppy just west brits looking to be the queens lapdog

How many British people were pointlessly sent to their deaths by criminally inept/unconcerned generals plucked from the elite classes, may be a question the British soul might ask itself one day.

Not while we all engage in the poppy mist though. :rolleyes:

Disgruntled Badger · 11-11-2018 3:00am

How many Irish people were murdered at the Hands of British scum.
No proper Irish person would ever wear a poppy just west brits looking to be the queens lapdog[/quote]

How many? I don't think there is a known figure. Of course likely they were executed by Irishmen so the number is probably quite negligible. I wonder how long the IRA would have held out if the Allied armies of WW1 or WW2 had been defeated?

Junkyard Tom · 11-11-2018 4:47am

As we're touching on the subject of WWI I'm, personally, completely spellbound by the work Peter Jackson has carried out on WWI footage.

The silent black-and-white film of WWI gave its documentation a sort of unworldly feel -- as if it could have been captured many centuries ago in a forgotten time -- that put it at a distance from the viewer

The colourisation, adding of speech, and sound effects brings that old WWI footage to life like a
magic paint brush and allows us to identify more closely with the soldiers. I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished film.

Spook_ie · 11-11-2018 7:29am

joe40 wrote: »

Do the German government commemorate the millions of German soldiers who died in ww1. Obviously ww2 is something thing they do not wish to celebrate in anyway, but ww1 was just a war between empires.
The poppy supports a British military establishment that have committed plenty of atrocities. I am not a sinn fein supporter but I would hate to see the poppy take hold in Ireland, or become the norm.
Commerations tomorrow are one thing but this poppy nonsense for a few weeks is ridiculous

Yes they do, they remember Volkstrauertag or Peoples Day of Mourning, this year it will be on Nov 18th. Do they have poppy day, no but Merkel did lay a wreath on Saturday at a WW1 cemetery along with Macron, not sure if she'll be doing anything actually at 11th hour of 11th day of 11th month

Spook_ie · 11-11-2018 7:34am

joe40 wrote: »

This discussion is about the poppy. The actions of the IRA are irrelevant.

Unless you were in Enniskillen in 1987.

Spook_ie · 11-11-2018 8:11am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not as big a mistake as saying she'd wear the British poppy. Spectacular stupidity there.

In fairness, it's not like any of the apologists for the British Empire here are "moving on". You all seem decidedly "enraged" at the temerity of the Irish to not accept this pathetic attempt to justify centuries of British imperialist aggression against us Irish and many others that the poppy embodies. Your imperialist dead, your imperialist heroes. No glorification for them here.

Hardly, casualty figures for WW1
British Empire between 950,000 and 1,100,000
Total of the allies inc BE between 5,186,854 and 6,433,692

Central Powers between 3,386,290 and 4,390,544

Wonder why Tayyip Erdoga's there if it's just some imperialist celebration

Spook_ie · 11-11-2018 8:13am

klaaaz wrote: »

Dublin ain't like anywhere in Kent. Dublin is part of an independent country free from British rule just like France is. Unfortunately, there are northern areas on this island still under British rule, those who have a deep affection for the British armed forces endorse the hundreds of murders of innocent Irish people through the purchase of the British poppy as the poppy funds the British soldiers who committed those murders.

Actually I think the UK government and MoD fund soldiers etc. But let's not quibble over details

Odhinn · 11-11-2018 9:27am

Folkstonian wrote: »

Is everything in your world so black and white?

Is the 21 year old lad who flew a spitfire in the Battle of Britain a ‘thug’ because he did so in a British uniform?
Or the woman who dropped into occupied France as an agent of the SOE? Is she a ‘thug’?
How about the men who fought the taliban in Helmand province? Were they ‘thugs’?
Or the 19 year old conscript who died in the mud at Passchendaele? A ‘thug’ too?

I am capable of acknowledging that the British armed forces have done both right and wrong, good and bad, shameful things and heroic acts in their history. I don’t think you are though.

You are a shock merchant, I’m sure of it,

...the vast majority being 'wrong', 'bad'and 'shameful'.

11-11-2018 9:33am

Spook_ie wrote: »

Hardly, casualty figures for WW1
British Empire between 950,000 and 1,100,000
Total of the allies inc BE between 5,186,854 and 6,433,692

Central Powers between 3,386,290 and 4,390,544

Wonder why Tayyip Erdoga's there if it's just some imperialist celebration

First, you can be absolutely sure Erdoğan isn't wearing the British poppy. Given that not even the French wear that British symbol, it would be odd of a defeated country to do so. Second, that red British poppy is the RBL's symbol and they are explicit that it “is worn to commemorate the sacrifices of our Armed Forces and to show support to those still serving today and their loved ones”. In other words, it's fantasy land when people wear the RBL red poppy and make up their own meaning for it, denying what it commemorates: all the British Armed Forces, be they in Wexford in 1798 or Armagh in 1982, or South Africa in 1900 or any of the thugs who fought in the other colonial wars of the British.

Anyway, I'm sure our British nationalists would be very accepting if somebody wore the Nazi Swastika because, for them, it's a personal reminder of the futility of war and nobody has a right to impose a meaning on it? Yes, that's about the stupidity level of denial here about what the British poppy actually commemorates.

whisky_galore · 11-11-2018 9:55am

Wear one. Don't wear one. Whatever.

I can 'remember' things and events without advertising. Same reason I wouldnt wear an Easter Lily or any other accessory.

RandomName2 · 11-11-2018 9:59am

Spook_ie wrote: »

Wonder why Tayyip Erdoga's there if it's just some imperialist celebration

Bringing attention to Turkey's Ottoman inheritance is something that is particularly close to Erdogan's heart.

mattser · 11-11-2018 11:40am

Folkstonian wrote: »

Is everything in your world so black and white?

Is the 21 year old lad who flew a spitfire in the Battle of Britain a ‘thug’ because he did so in a British uniform?
Or the woman who dropped into occupied France as an agent of the SOE? Is she a ‘thug’?
How about the men who fought the taliban in Helmand province? Were they ‘thugs’?
Or the 19 year old conscript who died in the mud at Passchendaele? A ‘thug’ too?

I am capable of acknowledging that the British armed forces have done both right and wrong, good and bad, shameful things and heroic acts in their history. I don’t think you are though.

You are a shock merchant, I’m sure of it,

See what I mean ? There are a handful of neandarthals left behind, who trawl the internet all day every day for the cause.

markodaly · 11-11-2018 11:43am

Odhinn wrote: »

...the vast majority being 'wrong', 'bad'and 'shameful'.

Yet you converse in its tongue and profit from it. Go figure. :P

markodaly · 11-11-2018 11:46am

markodaly · 11-11-2018 11:47am

markodaly · 11-11-2018 11:51am

Danzy · 11-11-2018 11:53am

The reality is most people here could care less about WW1 or those who fought in it. It isn't an active disregard just something not seen as relevant by most.

The evidence for that is born out in the number of commemorations and the size of the crowds.

It is a niche event, for right or wrong it always will be. The age profiles of people involved suggest in another decade it will be confined to a handful.

The debate about wearing the Poppy is a moot point as to see one person in the last few weeks is unusual.

Is it right or wrong to wear it is not a real debate when most people will never bother.

Poppy

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