Poppy

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2018 9:22pm

Folkstonian wrote: »

Get over yourself. People calling for you to wear a poppy are as rare as hens teeth.

I wear a poppy, I have a deep affection for the British armed forces with both contemporary and historical links in both my family/ friends. I’m not fussed what you or any of the other hoppers here think about that. It’s none of your business.

But the key here is that it really won’t keep me awake at night because you don’t want to wear one. It’s a fine example of your personal freedom of expression, which I wholly support.

I don’t want anyone doing anything they feel uncomfortable with and I don’t want such a poignant symbol as the poppy being devalued by being worn by people who don’t support it. I would expect 99% of British people, as a conservative estimate, agree with me.

So many posters are tilting at windmills in this thread, it’s quite comical. I’ve still not seen a single poppy in Dublin this November.

You’d think people were being ambushed by sea cadets with British Legion collection tins in dark alleys across the country such is the strength of feeling in the last few pages.

There is a concerted effort from our resident Union Jack wavers to make it wrong to voice criticism of wearing a poppy.

That is the problem here. You may not be affected by or you may pretend not to be affected by the criticism, that is not the same as trying to censor criticism.

There is a 'strength of feeling' here around this subject due to the complete whitewashing/handwaving away by people like you of the excesses of these forces here.

'Heroic' actions (read: willingness to be slaughtered) in WW1 cannot hide the many many crimes committed here and elsewhere.

Junkyard Tom · 10-11-2018 9:24pm

Folkstonian wrote: »

I don’t want such a poignant symbol as the poppy being devalued

SEPT 23 1989 · 10-11-2018 9:25pm

Francie have you any respect for the gangs of working class Dublin kids who went over to fight whatever their reason

Dr. Bre · 10-11-2018 9:29pm

How can we move on when it gets remembered every year!

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2018 9:33pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Francie have you any respect for the gangs of working class Dublin kids who went over to fight whatever their reason

It really has nothing to do with my opinion of any individual who goes to war/fight.

I have relatives who fought and died in different wars/conflicts. I refuse to endorse any army seeking to sustain their many different campaigns from their memory by wearing a symbol that supports them.

I have no problem with respectful remembrance btw, this vulgar November show is getting more and more obscene though and is gobbling up anything or anyone who doesn't subscribe to it.

Folkstonian · 10-11-2018 9:34pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Nice one. That’s me convinced. I’ll never wear a poppy again.

10-11-2018 9:35pm

Allyson Obnoxious Tailgate wrote: »

My own great grandfather fought with the 9th Bn of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers.... 100 years ago my great grandfather was on a battlefield in France and no bar stool Fenian is going to make me feel anything but pride in that.

This is a very strange post, this feeling so defensive about somebody you were not exactly best friends with (unless you're very, very, very old). Some sort of compensatory emotional outlet going on there, unless of course you agree with the aims of the British Empire.

And give me a million "bar stool Fenians" over a bar stool apologist for the thugs who fought for the British Empire to keep this country and many more on the planet faoi chois century after century.

Mookie Blaylock · 10-11-2018 9:35pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It really has nothing to do with my opinion of any individual who goes to war/fight.

I have relatives who fought and died in different wars/conflicts. I refuse to endorse any army seeking to sustain their many different campaigns from their memory by wearing a symbol that supports them.

I have no problem with respectful remembrance btw, this vulgar November show is getting more and more obscene though and is gobbling up anything or anyone who doesn't subscribe to it.

Really.... fairly sure you like an old easter lilly

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2018 9:36pm

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

Really.... fairly sure you like an old easter lilly

No interest in it and never had. I don't wear any symbols because I know they may be offensive on this island.

Not sure you would understand that though.

10-11-2018 9:36pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well the Prez election was an eye opener.

But then again the candidate did not have SF on the usual posters either. Big mistake.

Honestly this country will never move on with SF in the background. They are far too enraged. And always will be imv.

Not as big a mistake as saying she'd wear the British poppy. Spectacular stupidity there.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Honestly this country will never move on with SF in the background. They are far too enraged. And always will be imv.

In fairness, it's not like any of the apologists for the British Empire here are "moving on". You all seem decidedly "enraged" at the temerity of the Irish to not accept this pathetic attempt to justify centuries of British imperialist aggression against us Irish and many others that the poppy embodies. Your imperialist dead, your imperialist heroes. No glorification for them here.

Mookie Blaylock · 10-11-2018 9:39pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No interest in it and never had. I don't wear any symbols because I know they may be offensive on this island.

Not sure you would understand that though.

Well, we all know now that this post is..at best... disingenuous...

klaaaz · 10-11-2018 9:39pm

Dublin ain't like anywhere in Kent. Dublin is part of an independent country free from British rule just like France is. Unfortunately, there are northern areas on this island still under British rule, those who have a deep affection for the British armed forces endorse the hundreds of murders of innocent Irish people through the purchase of the British poppy as the poppy funds the British soldiers who committed those murders.

mattser · 10-11-2018 9:40pm

Folkstonian wrote: »

Get over yourself. People calling for you to wear a poppy are as rare as hens teeth.

I wear a poppy, I have a deep affection for the British armed forces with both contemporary and historical links in both my family/ friends. I’m not fussed what you or any of the other hoppers here think about that. It’s none of your business.

But the key here is that it really won’t keep me awake at night because you don’t want to wear one. It’s a fine example of your personal freedom of expression, which I wholly support.

I don’t want anyone doing anything they feel uncomfortable with and I don’t want such a poignant symbol as the poppy being devalued by being worn by people who don’t support it. I would expect 99% of British people, as a conservative estimate, agree with me.

So many posters are tilting at windmills in this thread, it’s quite comical. I’ve still not seen a single poppy in Dublin this November.

You’d think people were being ambushed by sea cadets with British Legion collection tins in dark alleys across the country such is the strength of feeling in the last few pages.

Good post. Nail on the head stuff.

You're right about the ' hoppers '. They've decided to stay in the dark past, while thankfully, most others have moved on.

Enjoy your commemoration.

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2018 9:41pm

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

Well, we all know now that this post is..at best... disingenuous...

Why?

Go back through any of these threads, I have consistently said that I object to the wearing of symbols by any side in a divided society.

But call me a liar, because you cannot validate your own offensive behaviour. :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2018 9:45pm

mattser wrote: »

Enjoy your commemoration.

You forgot to tell him/her to continue enjoying his 'affection' (contemporary and past) for the BA too.

10-11-2018 9:45pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Francie have you any respect for the gangs of working class Dublin kids who went over to fight whatever their reason

How about as much respect as the gangs of working class Dublin kids who don't have the British uniform on them and remains gangs, and usually end up in prison?

Joining the British Army for the king's shilling and helping the John Bull gang to occupy another people's homeland, exploit them in every conceivable manner and generally subjugate them is not exactly something worthy of admiration. At least for most Irish people. What British nationalists ask for here is that we make allowances for them and actually honour them essentially, and entirely, because they were wearing British state uniforms and using violence to achieve the political aims of that imperialist state. Nah.

Spanish Eyes · 10-11-2018 9:48pm

droidman123 wrote: »

I spell the word sprinkle incorrectly and you pull me up on it......as i said.....desperation

Deleted User wrote: »

Not as big a mistake as saying she'd wear the British poppy. Spectacular stupidity there.

In fairness, it's not like any of the apologists for the British Empire here are "moving on". You all seem decidedly "enraged" at the temerity of the Irish to not accept this pathetic attempt to justify centuries of British imperialist aggression against us Irish and many others that the poppy embodies. Your imperialist dead, your imperialist heroes. No glorification for them here.

Move on quickly now my friend. We really have to go forwards not backwards.

But I suppose the Shinners will never give up. But they still have to speak for their anti this and that instead of enticing the so called squeezed middle. Who are their way into REALPOLITIC!

Right.

10-11-2018 9:49pm

Folkstonian wrote: »

I wear a poppy, I have a deep affection for the British armed forces

At least you're being honest about your admiration for centuries of British mass murder, genocide, ethnic cleansing, concentration camps, global colonial subjugation and global exploitation. Fair play.

10-11-2018 9:54pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

We really have to go forwards not backwards.

A tad - at least - ironic given the poppy pushers are all pushing commemoration of something from 100 and more years ago, and indeed the British rightwing have gone even more obsessive about looking backwards in recent years as the reality of British decline becomes more clear to them.

Spanish Eyes · 10-11-2018 9:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

At least you're being honest about your admiration for centuries of British mass murder, genocide, ethnic cleansing, concentration camps, global colonial subjugation and global exploitation. Fair play.

Sounds like Godwin to me. No need to elaborate.You cannot.

Mookie Blaylock · 10-11-2018 9:56pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why?

Go back through any of these threads, I have consistently said that I object to the wearing of symbols by any side in a divided society.

But call me a liar, because you cannot validate your own offensive behaviour. :rolleyes:

You're the only person attacking people's rights...I'm afraid it's your posts that are despicable and beneath contempt.

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2018 10:03pm

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

You're the only person attacking people's rights...I'm afraid it's your posts that are despicable and beneath contempt.

As you are fond of saying...'go back to my original post' and nowhere do I say you don't have the right to wear it.
But never think you are above criticism for wearing it.

Mookie Blaylock · 10-11-2018 10:05pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As you are fond of saying...go back to my original post and nowhere do I say you don't have the right to wear it.
But never think you are above criticism for wearing it.

It's quite ok, you've revealed your true colours over the last number of hours, no need to interact with you anymore... good-bye

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2018 10:09pm

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

It's quite ok, you've revealed your true colours over the last number of hours, no need to interact with you anymore... good-bye

Oh good bye to you too. You have revealed that you want to remember your dead relative by supporting an army/state that is still sending somebody else's relatives to pointless deaths in pursuit of their aims.
How wonderful of you. :rolleyes:

Folkstonian · 10-11-2018 10:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

At least you're being honest about your admiration for centuries of British mass murder, genocide, ethnic cleansing, concentration camps, global colonial subjugation and global exploitation. Fair play.

Is everything in your world so black and white?

Is the 21 year old lad who flew a spitfire in the Battle of Britain a ‘thug’ because he did so in a British uniform?
Or the woman who dropped into occupied France as an agent of the SOE? Is she a ‘thug’?
How about the men who fought the taliban in Helmand province? Were they ‘thugs’?
Or the 19 year old conscript who died in the mud at Passchendaele? A ‘thug’ too?

I am capable of acknowledging that the British armed forces have done both right and wrong, good and bad, shameful things and heroic acts in their history. I don’t think you are though.

You are a shock merchant, I’m sure of it,

lawred2 · 10-11-2018 10:14pm

Folkstonian wrote: »

Is everything in your world so black and white?

Is the 21 year old lad who flew a spitfire in the Battle of Britain a ‘thug’ because he did so in a British uniform?
Or the woman who dropped into occupied France as an agent of the SOE? Is she a ‘thug’?
How about the men who fought the taliban in Helmand province? Were they ‘thugs’?
Or the 19 year old conscript who died in the mud at Passchendaele? A ‘thug’ too?

I am capable of acknowledging that the British armed forces have done both right and wrong, good and bad, shameful things and heroic acts in their history. I don’t think you are though.

You are a shock merchant, I’m sure of it,

Well the poppy represents all the good and the bad, the right and the wrong.. Not just the bits people like to selectively pick and choose.

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2018 10:16pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Well the poppy represents all the good and the bad. Not just the boys people like to selectively pick and choose.

Hence the problem with it here.
Still a small faction who like nothing better than rub fellow Irish people's noses in it though in order to wave the Union Jack.
Must be incredibly sad for them, like our unionists in the north and their unrequited love affair.

RandomName2 · 10-11-2018 10:24pm

Folkstonian wrote: »

Is everything in your world so black and white?

Is the 21 year old lad who flew a spitfire in the Battle of Britain a ‘thug’ because he did so in a British uniform?
Or the woman who dropped into occupied France as an agent of the SOE? Is she a ‘thug’?
How about the men who fought the taliban in Helmand province? Were they ‘thugs’?
Or the 19 year old conscript who died in the mud at Passchendaele? A ‘thug’ too?

I am capable of acknowledging that the British armed forces have done both right and wrong, good and bad, shameful things and heroic acts in their history. I don’t think you are though.

You are a shock merchant, I’m sure of it,

Fuaranach is an absolutist. His position is entirely extreme. He has a point, to be sure, but that point is to exclusion of everything else. It is one note, unadulterated, without any nuance. I believe this is a pointless line of questioning.

I also don't believe he is a shock merchant, or at least I don't think that's his main bent. Unfortunately, I believe his sincerity

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Sounds like Godwin to me. No need to elaborate.You cannot.

Just going to point out before your opponent does that technically this isn't Godwin's Law (though it is a bit like it, if that was what you meant). In practice the grandstanding could be taken with literally any European country that is more than 100 years old; that that country represents a bloodthirsty murderous nation. Italy, Russia, France: all of them had concentration camps, all of them had colonies, all of them have blood on their hands.

To say that the French government is a cabal of bloodthirsty tyrants, and all their soldiers deserve to die would be a slightly biased position. You might get that sentiment from an ISIS member hailing from Algeria though.

RandomName2 · 10-11-2018 10:27pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Well the poppy represents all the good and the bad, the right and the wrong.. Not just the bits people like to selectively pick and choose.

Wait, was there anything good about WW1? It's funny: I can't think of a single thing.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Must be incredibly sad for them, like our unionists in the north and their unrequited love affair.

Love? Heh.

10-11-2018 10:43pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Sounds like Godwin to me. No need to elaborate.You cannot.

Yeah, so you really believe all those red places on the planet beyond Britain wanted the British to invade their countries, rob their resources and subjugate their peoples? In poppy terms, is this another example of the nice civilised British selflessly helping the native savages?

Britain has invaded all but 22 countries on the planet

Poppy

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