Poppy

evolving_doors

There's a red one with a shamrock now, so is there any more need for debate?

_Brian

Your dead right, no gimmic makes them acceptable, end off.

super_furry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpCXxqiTjqE

Del2005

evolving_doors wrote: »

There's a red one with a shamrock now, so is there any more need for debate?

It's still the Royal British Legion supporting all ex British troops, so no there's no need for debate. You either support them or you don't.

evolving_doors

_Brian wrote: »

Your dead right, no gimmic makes them acceptable, end off.

White poppy?

OldMrBrennan83

I can see them getting trendier here with the "oooh look how modern and progressive I am" attitude that's infesting the country these days.

_Brian

evolving_doors wrote: »

White poppy?

No poppy, ever.

sbsquarepants

Listening to some Fine Gael senator or something on newstalk this morning (I was still half asleep and didn't catch his name!) Anyway his point was, yes by all means we should remember "the fallen" but we should remember them by raging against the shower of bastards who sent them to their deaths, not but sentimentalising it with a poxy paper flower.

I agree with him - the whole gushing over the poppy you see these days is nothing short of disgusting. I just don't get the romanticising of war.

I'm sorry Britain, you didn't have a "glorious empire" - you raped and plundered half the world. Your history isn't anything to be proud of, quite the opposite in fact. The world doesn't look up to you with awe and respect - you are in fact a right shower of cúnts!

So, eh, no poppy for me thanks:D (unless you mean that blondie one above, there's always an exception!)

martinedwards

Huge numbers of Irish born served in both wars.

Including my grandfather (born in Moville) who ended up as captain of a corvette.

When he was invalided out in '42 he retired back to Moville again.

Was massively proud of his service for the rest of his life.

there are still numerous Irish born (North and South) serving in the British forces.

sbsquarepants

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Listening to some Fine Gael senator or something on newstalk this morning (I was still half asleep and didn't catch his name!) Anyway his point was, yes by all means we should remember "the fallen" but we should remember them by raging against the shower of bastards who sent them to their deaths, not but sentimentalising it with a poxy paper flower.

Give me their addresses and I will.

OldMrBrennan83

martinedwards wrote: »

Huge numbers of Irish born served in both wars.

Including my grandfather (born in Moville) who ended up as captain of a corvette.

When he was invalided out in '42 he retired back to Moville again.

Was massively proud of his service for the rest of his life.

there are still numerous Irish born (North and South) serving in the British forces.

Their passports should instantly be ripped to shreds as soon as they sign up. The actual Irish ones I mean.

Graces7

martinedwards wrote: »

Huge numbers of Irish born served in both wars.

Including my grandfather (born in Moville) who ended up as captain of a corvette.

When he was invalided out in '42 he retired back to Moville again.

Was massively proud of his service for the rest of his life.

there are still numerous Irish born (North and South) serving in the British forces.

27,000 Irish men served in WW2. Both those living in the UK and Irish here.

Churchill said that without them the war would not have been won; Hitler would have taken over

Many of these Irish gave their lives in the war for freedom from oppression.

Time and past time to give world wide thanks for our freedom together

Spideog Rua

martinedwards wrote: »

Huge numbers of Irish born served in both wars.

You know there's more than two wars, right? And the poppy represents them all, including the atrocities committed in Ireland and India...right?

It's become an almost fascist movement that everyone in the UK is required to wear a poppy for a few weeks before and after Remembrance Sunday.

_Brian

martinedwards wrote: »

Huge numbers of Irish born served in both wars.

Including my grandfather (born in Moville) who ended up as captain of a corvette.

When he was invalided out in '42 he retired back to Moville again.

Was massively proud of his service for the rest of his life.

there are still numerous Irish born (North and South) serving in the British forces.

This a very valid point.

However it doesn’t succeed the fact that the poppy has come so symbolise support for the British armed forces, the same forces that occupied the six counties in such a brutal fashion, it’s insulting to people to expect them to accept such a symbol.
It may not be it’s initial intention, but that’s what it’s become a symbol of.

Chips Lovell

Yay, the annual Poppy thread!!!

I'm sure people will make thoughtful and insightful contributions that haven't been aired before in previous years' editions.

judestynes

Patww79 wrote: »

Their passports should instantly be ripped to shreds as soon as they sign up. The actual Irish ones I mean.

Why? It's no different than leaving to work on oil fields in the middle east or construction, engineering or any other oppurtunity anywhere else in the world. Should they have their passports ripped up too? If the opportunities were here people would stay here but they aren't.

Ragnar Lothbrok

Graces7 wrote: »

27,000 Irish men served in WW2. Both those living in the UK and Irish here.

Churchill said that without them the war would not have been won; Hitler would have taken over

Many of these Irish gave their lives in the war for freedom from oppression.

Time and past time to give world wide thanks for our freedom together

I think the 20-odd million lives lost by the USSR was perhaps slightly more responsible for preventing "Hitler taking over" :rolleyes:

AlphabetCards

Patww79 wrote: »

martinedwards wrote: »

Huge numbers of Irish born served in both wars.

Including my grandfather (born in Moville) who ended up as captain of a corvette.

When he was invalided out in '42 he retired back to Moville again.

Was massively proud of his service for the rest of his life.

there are still numerous Irish born (North and South) serving in the British forces.

Their passports should instantly be ripped to shreds as soon as they sign up. The actual Irish ones I mean.

Come and take mine, hard man.
For the record, despite having served in HM Forces, I will only wear my poppy on the day before and day of Rememberance, unless I really have a change in mind. I'm not happy with how it has been co-opted by celebrities and politicians to virtue signal that they are 'standing with the troops'. Especially the latter, they could not give a solitary toss.

Ragnar Lothbrok

judestynes wrote: »

Why? It's no different than leaving to work on oil fields in the middle east or construction, engineering or any other oppurtunity anywhere else in the world. Should they have their passports ripped up too? If the opportunities were here people would stay here but they aren't.

Completely different in my opinion. Working in a commercial industry is not the same as working for a foreign military.

Where would the loyalty of the Irish in the British armed forces really lie, in the hugely unlikely scenario that British military forces take action against Ireland in the future?

corner of hells

Patww79 wrote: »

Their passports should instantly be ripped to shreds as soon as they sign up. The actual Irish ones I mean.

That's a great idea , nothing prooves a point better than tearing something apart

We could rip up their birth certs too , to show how forward thinking and progressive we've become .

FTA69

I wish people would shut up about WW1 and WW2, that’s not what the poppy commemorates.

It’s a Legion symbol that commemorates ALL soldiers in ALL conflicts and is accompanied by a giant love-in for the British armed forces. Fact.

It’s like every year people stick their fingers in their ears and start shouting la la la.

I think we should commemorate the Irish war dead, but we should have our own symbol and not latch onto a British one with loads of baggage about their colonial conflicts.

murpho999

Why is this debated every year?

The poppy is a British symbol for their war dead. It is also used in Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

The wars involved many countries all over the world but the vast majority do not use the poppy.

The US, France, Germany, Netherlands, Poland, Russia etc all suffered greatly in the wars

Ireland is an independent country now and like any independent country it can remember its war dead how it chooses just like all the other countries.

We do not have to use the poppy which is organised by the "Royal British Legion".

Also, over the last few years the poppy has come to be a British jingoistic and populist symbol that has become compulsory to wear in the UK. Look at the furor over football James McClean refusal to wear it. In my opinion that denies people the liberty of choice that they claimed to have fought for.

We should keep well away from it and it does not show immaturity to not want anything to do with it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Patww79 wrote: »

I can see them getting trendier here with the "oooh look how modern and progressive I am" attitude that's infesting the country these days.

"Modern and progressive" and "Royal British Legion" are never going to be part of the same attitude.

BBDBB

corner of hells wrote: »

That's a great idea , nothing prooves a point better than tearing something apart

We could rip up their birth certs too , to show how forward thinking and progressive we've become .

and stamp on the bits thrown on the floor?

come on, lets throw the full tantrum over this

go hard or go home

lawred2

evolving_doors wrote: »

There's a red one with a shamrock now, so is there any more need for debate?

oh good I was looking forward to this year's poppy thread...

AlphabetCards

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Patww79 wrote: »

I can see them getting trendier here with the "oooh look how modern and progressive I am" attitude that's infesting the country these days.

"Modern and progressive" and "Royal British Legion" are never going to be part of the same attitude.

Based on your experiences of what, exactly?

judestynes

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Completely different in my opinion. Working in a commercial industry is not the same as working for a foreign military.

Where would the loyalty of the Irish in the British armed forces really lie, in the hugely unlikely scenario that British military forces take action against Ireland in the future?

Ireland is a nuetral country Britain isn't. Young people join foreign militaries be they British , American or French do so because they want to see combat, loyalty doesn't come into it. As for being employed by a foreign military it's the very same as being employed by a foreign company.

lawred2

Graces7 wrote: »

27,000 Irish men served in WW2. Both those living in the UK and Irish here.

Churchill said that without them the war would not have been won; Hitler would have taken over

Many of these Irish gave their lives in the war for freedom from oppression.

Time and past time to give world wide thanks for our freedom together

yerra ffs anyone who believes that is seriously fooling themselves.

WWII was ultimately settled by the USSR and the US. And the turning point of the war was Germany's folly into the USSR. Stalingrad alone cost the USSR 1.1m soldiers in deaths and casualties.

But it was the 27000 Irish people...

One only has to look at the number of USAF bases in the UK to understand who really 'won' the war.

lawred2

judestynes wrote: »

Ireland is a nuetral country Britain isn't. Young people join foreign militaries be they British , American or French do so because they want to see combat, loyalty doesn't come into it. As for being employed by a foreign military it's the very same as being employed by a foreign company.

that's very simplistic

Omackeral

_Brian wrote: »

Your dead right, no gimmic makes them acceptable, end off.

That whole line hurt my eyes.

AlphabetCards

lawred2 wrote: »

judestynes wrote: »

Ireland is a nuetral country Britain isn't. Young people join foreign militaries be they British , American or French do so because they want to see combat, loyalty doesn't come into it. As for being employed by a foreign military it's the very same as being employed by a foreign company.

that's very simplistic

Aye, but in my experience it is true. Most lads from Ireland who joined the forces did so to go on tour.

0cp71eyxkb94qf

This post has been deleted.

Omackeral

Also, if you don't consume British media by the geansai-load, you probably won't have to encounter this all that much. Switch off SKY/BBC if the presence of a red flower gets to you.

razorblunt

PoppyWatch on twitter is worth a follow for the time of year we're in.
Brings out all the gammon heads.

lawred2

razorblunt wrote: »

PoppyWatch on twitter is worth a follow for the time of year we're in.
Brings out all the gammon heads.

not sure what it means or who it refers to but it sounds like my type of insult

sbsquarepants

Graces7 wrote: »

Churchill said that without them the war would not have been won; Hitler would have taken over

Churchill said a lot of things!

There were a lot of reasons the Axis countries lost - sheer overstretching themselves, the Russian winter, Allied access to penicillin, the Manhattan project even (although you could argue the war was already won by the time it was deployed)

27,000 Paddies made precious little difference I'm afraid!

To me the Poppy represents the futility of war. It doesn’t matter the race, religion or political beliefs of those killed, either civilians or those in the armed forces. Some comments on this thread show that nothing had changed. People still see things differently and react with hostility to the beliefs of others.
Make love, not war.

lawred2

Deleted User wrote: »

To me the Poppy represents the futility of war. It doesn’t matter the race, religion or political beliefs of those killed, either civilians or those in the armed forces. Some comments on this thread show that nothing had changed. People still see things differently and react with hostility to the beliefs of others.
Make love, not war.

that's not its intended purpose though - you can't just decide for yourself what the intention of the symbol is..

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

AlphabetCards wrote: »

Based on your experiences of what, exactly?

On the fact that people who consider themselves modern and progressive tend not to bother all that much with symbols that represent political or nationalist-based ideas of historical warfare.

Ragnar Lothbrok

judestynes wrote: »

Ireland is a nuetral country Britain isn't. Young people join foreign militaries be they British , American or French do so because they want to see combat, loyalty doesn't come into it. As for being employed by a foreign military it's the very same as being employed by a foreign company.

So again, the question is: IF Britain for some reason invaded Ireland, what would these Irish soldiers in the British army do then? So, yes, loyalty DOES come into it. Would they blindly follow orders or would they risk court martial and possible execution?

In no way would working for a commercial enterprise ever create the same possibility of conflict of loyalties between country and employer.

Yes, I know this is all highly unlikely, but I had to continue this to show the ridiculousness of equating a foreign military with a foreign company.

sbsquarepants

judestynes wrote: »

As for being employed by a foreign military it's the very same as being employed by a foreign company.

No it's not, you clown!

Intel aren't going to tell you to climb in a helicopter and bomb a settlement somewhere in the Khyber pass, because there's a 25% chance that Tim Cook is in the big tent on the left!

Don't be ridiculous. Fighting armies deal in death, destruction and misery, not stocks, bonds and quarterly reports.

You're absolutely right insofar as at the end of the day, it is always about money, but that's where the similarity ends.

Graces7

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Churchill said a lot of things!

There were a lot of reasons the Axis countries lost - sheer overstretching themselves, the Russian winter, Allied access to penicillin, the Manhattan project even (although you could argue the war was already won by the time it was deployed)

27,000 Paddies made precious little difference I'm afraid!

what a terrible way to see brave men. and what your post says about you. yeeeeeeeuuuuuuuurkkkkkkkkkk

Wheety

Aegir wrote: »

Give me their addresses and I will.

And what will you do? Send a strongly worded letter?

lawred2

Graces7 wrote: »

what a terrible way to see brave men. and what your post says about you. yeeeeeeeuuuuuuuurkkkkkkkkkk

?

KaneToad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To me the Poppy represents the futility of war. It doesn’t matter the race, religion or political beliefs of those killed, either civilians or those in the armed forces. Some comments on this thread show that nothing had changed. People still see things differently and react with hostility to the beliefs of others.
Make love, not war.

To me it represents unicorns jumping through rainbows and sugarplum fairies dancing on icicles.

sbsquarepants

Graces7 wrote: »

what a terrible way to see brave men. and what your post says about you. yeeeeeeeuuuuuuuurkkkkkkkkkk

Sorry Graces7, I get that you think you're being respectful and I'm not but you're wrong.

There's probably the odd exception but en masse the only difference their deaths made was to themselves and their families, a stupid gawdy paper flower is not honouring them, it's glossing over unpleasant facts.

And as for Churchill - he was undoubtedly a very smart man and a brilliant military leader in very difficult times, but he was also an alcoholic who was extremely blasé about killing millions of people. He's certainly not anybody I would look up to on moral grounds.

Just because he said something, doesn't mean it's true - he told the odd porkie pie when it suited him!

judestynes

sbsquarepants wrote: »

No it's not, you clown!

Intel aren't going to tell you to climb in a helicopter and bomb a settlement somewhere in the Khyber pass, because there's a 25% chance that Tim Cook is in the big tent on the left!

Don't be ridiculous. Fighting armies deal in death, destruction and misery, not stocks, bonds and quarterly reports.

You're absolutely right insofar as at the end of the day, it is always about money, but that's where the similarity ends.

Your right, your employer won't tell you to invade a soveirgn nation but they might ask you to evict a family from their home, or crew an oil tanker skippered by a gowl who thinks safety regs are just there for the craic but at least he's quick and ends up wiping out the entire coastline of the country your from. How do you think those quarterly reports look so rosey, by playing by the rules?

sbsquarepants

judestynes wrote: »

Your right, your employer won't tell you to invade a soveirgn nation but they might ask you to evict a family from their home, or crew an oil tanker skippered by a gowl who thinks safety regs are just there for the craic but at least he's quick and ends up wiping out the entire coastline of the country your from. How do you think those quarterly reports look so rosey, by playing by the rules?

I think you're very much clutching at straws.

Firstly a family can't be evicted from "their" home, only from someone elses.

Secondly, penneys employing dubious labour in Bangladesh is not really on a par with fire bombing Dresden, and I think you know that full well!

razorblunt

Graces7 wrote: »

what a terrible way to see brave men. and what your post says about you. yeeeeeeeuuuuuuuurkkkkkkkkkk

What a terrible, simplistic way to see Churchill too.
Take a look at what he did to Indians.

razorblunt

lawred2 wrote: »

not sure what it means or who it refers to but it sounds like my type of insult

Wiki:

Gammon is a pejorative term used in British political culture since around 2012, which received press coverage in 2018. In 2018 it became particularly known as a term to describe white people, especially those on the political right or who supported Brexit, who appear pink-faced when emotional.The term is a comparison of their flushed skin colour to the pink of gammon, i.e. salted pork leg

corner of hells

razorblunt wrote: »

Wiki:

Gammon is a pejorative term used in British political culture since around 2012, which received press coverage in 2018. In 2018 it became particularly known as a term to describe white people, especially those on the political right or who supported Brexit, who appear pink-faced when emotional.The term is a comparison of their flushed skin colour to the pink of gammon, i.e. salted pork leg

Brilliant.