Poppy

RandomName2

droidman123 wrote: »

They were not british,you are very wrong.they were from ireland which was under british rule at the time,that does not make them british.i asked you before but you didnt reply,when germany invaded poland,did that mean the polish people where then german? By your "logic" it did

By God the amount of wrong in a single post. I mean, you'll be thanked by all the provos on the thread, but that's never been an indicator of factual accuracy.

In the First World War, most Poles were indeed German, and fought for Germany as Germans. Poland did not exist at the time.

In World War Two, Poland did exist, and it was invaded by Germany. These people were still Poles, and the occupied country was the General government. Some veterans of the First World War who had fought for Germany ended up is Auschwitz.

During the First World War the country Ireland similarly didn't exist, and all her people were by definition citizens of the United Kingdom. This isn't an argument, this is just me telling you really basic facts. I mean Fuaranach has got a consistent stance that he feels that all public servants in Ireland at this time deserved to die, but that's a subjective position. Saying that Ireland was not part of the United Kingdom at the time is like saying that Italy is in the Pacific Ocean. You may, for personal reasons wish it to be the case, but it's indisputably incorrect.

Spanish Eyes

droidman123 wrote: »

You accept they were irish by birth,fair enough,but you still havnt explained what made them british?

Well they were under British Rule.

Look there are some who acknowledge this, and some who won't.

So be it.

droidman123

RandomName2 wrote: »

By God the amount of wrong in a single post. I mean, you'll be thanked by all the provos on the thread, but that's never been an indicator of factual accuracy.

In the First World War, most Poles were indeed German, and fought for Germany as Germans. Poland did not exist at the time.

In World War Two, Poland did exist, and it was invaded by Germany. These people were still Poles, and the occupied country was the General government. Some veterans of the First World War who had fought for Germany ended up is Auschwitz.

During the First World War the country Ireland similarly didn't exist, and all her people were by definition citizens of the United Kingdom. This isn't an argument, this is just me telling you really basic facts. I mean Fuaranach has got a consistent stance that he feels that all public servants in Ireland at this time deserved to die, but that's a subjective position. Saying that Ireland was not part of the United Kingdom at the time is like saying that Italy is in the Pacific Ocean. You may, for personal reasons wish it to be the case, but it's indisputably incorrect.

Ok so let me get this straight,anyone that doesnt agree with your opinions is a provo?

droidman123

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well they were under British Rule.

Look there are some who acknowledge this, and some who won't.

So be it.

Ok so because they were under british rule that made them british?

joe40

Do the German government commemorate the millions of German soldiers who died in ww1. Obviously ww2 is something thing they do not wish to celebrate in anyway, but ww1 was just a war between empires.
The poppy supports a British military establishment that have committed plenty of atrocities. I am not a sinn fein supporter but I would hate to see the poppy take hold in Ireland, or become the norm.
Commerations tomorrow are one thing but this poppy nonsense for a few weeks is ridiculous

RandomName2

droidman123 wrote: »

Ok so let me get this straight,anyone that doesnt agree with your opinions is a provo?

Well that's the rebuttal of the century.

The people who openly admit to being pro-fenian, wish for the death of all British servicemen, and admire sacrifices of blood for the independence of Ireland.. I mean.. what? Is this a genuine question droidman or are you trying to hide your inability to look up basic historical information by redirection to the subjective aspects of the discussion?

droidman123 wrote: »

Ok so because they were under british rule that made them british?

There is a penny, and it's wobbling.

RandomName2

joe40 wrote: »

Do the German government commemorate the millions of German soldiers who died in ww1. Obviously ww2 is something thing they do not wish to celebrate in anyway, but ww1 was just a war between empires.

Volkstrauertag

joe40 wrote: »

The poppy supports a British military establishment that have committed plenty of atrocities. I am not a sinn fein supporter but I would hate to see the poppy take hold in Ireland, or become the norm.
Commerations tomorrow are one thing but this poppy nonsense for a few weeks is ridiculous

I've never had an interest in it so I don't know: is there a way to get a poppy without donating to the RBL? I think it's a pity that they hijacked that particular symbol that represents WW1 for their own ends, but the hijacking of symbolism is nothing new. I think it's also more than a bit convenient that the poppy symbol is almost ubiquitously red in color, which has specific associations with the British military.

klaaaz

According to RandomName2 logic, anyone who supports the British poppy in Ireland is a member of a loyalist proscribed organisation, rather than just a run of the mill unionist.

FrancieBrady

RandomName2 wrote: »

Volkstrauertag



I've never had an interest in it so I don't know: is there a way to get a poppy without donating to the RBL? I think it's a pity that they hijacked that particular symbol that represents WW1 for their own ends, but the hijacking of symbolism is nothing new. I think it's also more than a bit convenient that the poppy symbol is almost ubiquitously red in color, which has specific associations with the British military.

It has been obvious for a long time that it has been hijacked.

You can put it in a drawer and forget it is there you know.

arybvtcw0eolkf

joe40 wrote: »

Do the German government commemorate the millions of German soldiers who died in ww1. Obviously ww2 is something thing they do not wish to celebrate in anyway, but ww1 was just a war between empires.
The poppy supports a British military establishment that have committed plenty of atrocities. I am not a sinn fein supporter but I would hate to see the poppy take hold in Ireland, or become the norm.
Commerations tomorrow are one thing but this poppy nonsense for a few weeks is ridiculous

This has been repeated ad nauseam, it's a charity appeal which supports ex service men and women of the British armed forced and their families.

Lots of ex service personnel and their families fall on hard times when the soldier is no longer serving.

If you care about that kind of stuff and wish to support ex soldiers and their families who served in the Irish defence forces then we have the Fuschia Appeal here in Ireland.

But there's no political argument in supporting the Fuschia Appeal so I suspect the same people who get high and mighty about kicking the crap out of the Poppy Appeal won't give a bollox about the Fuschia Appeal.

droidman123

Randomname,your posts are becoming more and more illogical,with a spirinkle of desperation

Spanish Eyes

Lest we forget.

The Shinners will milk this for all they are worth without acknowledging their own who joined the British Army to either die or keep their families supported. Sad really, have they not moved on?

NO. Remember the Kingmills bread on the head. Said it all for me anyway.

FrancieBrady

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Lest we forget.

The Shinners will milk this for all they are worth without acknowledging their own who joined the British Army to either die or keep their families supported. Sad really, have they not moved on?

NO. Remember the Kingmills bread on the head. Said it all for me anyway.

Move on from what?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Lest we forget.

The Shinners will milk this for all they are worth without acknowledging their own who joined the British Army to either die or keep their families supported. Sad really, have they not moved on?

NO. Remember the Kingmills bread on the head. Said it all for me anyway.

Or that their own murdered more Irish Catholics in N.I. (and south of the border) than the British and Loyalist terrorists combined.

RandomName2

klaaaz wrote: »

According to RandomName2 logic, anyone who supports the British poppy in Ireland is a member of a loyalist proscribed organisation, rather than just a run of the mill unionist.

Your posting quality is terrible, but I'll entertain you for a second.

A member of a loyalist proscribed organisation would be more likely to wear a poppy than not, as part of their fake mythos is a supposedly cosy relationship with the United Kingdom, and anything that signifies military might and sacrifice would go down well with them.

There we go.

In practice you'd need some greater information, like particular animosity directed by that individual against the country and people of Ireland. A nice indicator would be the use of inaccurate pejorative terms, like 'land of the bog-men', 'Rome's outpost' , things like that. You know, being an offensive arsehole because having a binary opposition for them to fashion their own identity against is something which gives them meaning in their lives.

RandomName2

droidman123 wrote: »

Randomname,your posts are becoming more and more illogical,with a spirinkle of desperation

Okay, so you don't know history, you abandon your arguments, and you find it hard to write posts more than one sentence in length, and you apparently don't even know how to spell sprinkle.

joe40

This discussion is about the poppy. The actions of the IRA are irrelevant.

droidman123

RandomName2 wrote: »

Okay, so you don't know history, you abandon your arguments, and you find it hard to write posts more than one sentence in length, and you apparently don't even know how to spell sprinkle.

I spell the word sprinkle incorrectly and you pull me up on it......as i said.....desperation

Spanish Eyes

Allyson Obnoxious Tailgate wrote: »

Or that their own murdered more Irish Catholics in N.I. (and south of the border) than the British and Loyalist terrorists combined.

Well the Prez election was an eye opener.

But then again the candidate did not have SF on the usual posters either. Big mistake.

Honestly this country will never move on with SF in the background. They are far too enraged. And always will be imv.

trashcan

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Listening to some Fine Gael senator or something on newstalk this morning (I was still half asleep and didn't catch his name!) Anyway his point was, yes by all means we should remember "the fallen" but we should remember them by raging against the shower of bastards who sent them to their deaths, not but sentimentalising it with a poxy paper flower.

I agree with him - the whole gushing over the poppy you see these days is nothing short of disgusting. I just don't get the romanticising of war.

)

Couldn't have put it better myself, well said.

lawred2

corner of hells wrote: »

You're stuck in a loop Francie .

It'll be the same next year for you.
Past ,present and future , incapable of moving on .
Most will never have any contact with the British Army let alone see anyone wear a poppy.

Well he's not wrong all the same

RandomName2

droidman123 wrote: »

I spell the word sprinkle incorrectly and you pull me up on it......as i said.....desperation

Barely one sentence? Check.
Ignores substance of post? Check
Tries to hide failings through redirection? Check
Repetition? Check

But you know, you're right. Factual argument with people who are guided solely by faith is a fairly desperate thing to be doing.

FrancieBrady

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well the Prez election was an eye opener.

But then again the candidate did not have SF on the usual posters either. Big mistake.

Honestly this country will never move on with SF in the background. They are far too enraged. And always will be imv.

Now the poppy wearers will attempt to make it about the shinners. Pathetic in extremis.
Anything to endorse the pathetic virtue signalling hat doffing.

Junkyard Tom

Allyson Obnoxious Tailgate wrote: »

Or that their own murdered more Irish Catholics in N.I. (and south of the border) than the British and Loyalist terrorists combined.

That's spectacularly wrong.

lawred2

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Hi TROL. Being critical of the British military and its history of torture and murder in Ireland, and abroad, is not anti-British. Please stop conflating the two, good man.

There's plenty of admirable aspects of Britain/British history but their bloody war-mongering past is not one of them.

Wouldn't entertain that lad too long.. he's on record as wanting the rejoin the United kingdom. That was his no hard border solution ...

klaaaz

Shocking news, the president of an independent country called France was NOT wearing a British poppy today at an WW1 Armistice plaque ceremony. The poppy fascists here and in Britain will be enraged at a non-British country(France) whose leaders are not wearing the British poppys! According to the poppy fascists, the French are anti-British and SF supporters in not wearing the British poppy! :rolleyes:https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1110/1010028-macron-merkel-armistice/

RandomName2

klaaaz wrote: »

Shocking news, the president of an independent country called France was NOT wearing a British poppy today at an WW1 Armistice plaque ceremony. The poppy fascists here and in Britain will be enraged at a non-British country(France) whose leaders are not wearing the British poppys! According to the poppy fascists, the French are anti-British and SF supporters in not wearing the British poppy! :rolleyes:https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1110/1010028-macron-merkel-armistice/

I'd imagine that they would be more pissed off by Trump's cancellation of his visit to the American cemetery due to 'the weather'. One could read into Trump's action as being representative of him being against American military 'bailing out' Europe, but that might be a bit of a stretch. French politicians, etc. have usually used different symbols related to WW1 other than the red poppy, as I previously mentioned.

FrancieBrady

RandomName2 wrote: »

I'd imagine that they would be more pissed off by Trump's cancellation of his visit to the American cemetery due to 'the weather'. One could read into Trump's action as being representative of him being against American military 'bailing out' Europe, but that might be a bit of a stretch. French politicians, etc. have usually used different symbols related to WW1 other than the red poppy, as I previously mentioned.

The French as a nation have enough pride to remember without endorsing another army.

RandomName2

RandomName2 wrote: »

Barely one sentence? Check.
Ignores substance of post? Check
Tries to hide failings through redirection? Check
Repetition? Check

But you know, you're right. Factual argument with people who are guided solely by faith is a fairly desperate thing to be doing.

An uncannily apt description for Brexit Britain I would have thought......

Folkstonian

klaaaz wrote: »

Shocking news, the president of an independent country called France was NOT wearing a British poppy today at an WW1 Armistice plaque ceremony. The poppy fascists here and in Britain will be enraged at a non-British country(France) whose leaders are not wearing the British poppys! According to the poppy fascists, the French are anti-British and SF supporters in not wearing the British poppy! :rolleyes:https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1110/1010028-macron-merkel-armistice/

Get over yourself. People calling for you to wear a poppy are as rare as hens teeth.

I wear a poppy, I have a deep affection for the British armed forces with both contemporary and historical links in both my family/ friends. I’m not fussed what you or any of the other hoppers here think about that. It’s none of your business.

But the key here is that it really won’t keep me awake at night because you don’t want to wear one. It’s a fine example of your personal freedom of expression, which I wholly support.

I don’t want anyone doing anything they feel uncomfortable with and I don’t want such a poignant symbol as the poppy being devalued by being worn by people who don’t support it. I would expect 99% of British people, as a conservative estimate, agree with me.

So many posters are tilting at windmills in this thread, it’s quite comical. I’ve still not seen a single poppy in Dublin this November.

You’d think people were being ambushed by sea cadets with British Legion collection tins in dark alleys across the country such is the strength of feeling in the last few pages.