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Waterford Airport.

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    #692
    notharrypotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭notharrypotter


    Max Powers wrote: »
    Aren't the govt agency DAA being funded tens of millions for another Dublin runway.?
    No.
    The DAA will raise its own funds based on its own ability to repay.
    The DAA will issue bonds based on future income to build the new runway.


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    #693
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    notharrypotter wrote: »
    No.
    The DAA will raise its own funds based on its own ability to repay.
    The DAA will issue bonds based on future income to build the new runway.

    Yeah, you're not wrong but I'm always sceptical about that arrangement, we all know the tax payer is on the line for a lot of this type of stuff , see cork airport and dare I say it, Irish water.you hear headlines of various universities borrowing tens of millions but they're all skint so I don't see them paying it back without the govt stepping in with extra funds.I know there are some EU rules against this type of stuff but just sceptical is all.


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    #694
    Teebor15
    Registered Users Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Teebor15


    notharrypotter wrote: »
    No.
    The DAA will raise its own funds based on its own ability to repay.
    The DAA will issue bonds based on future income to build the new runway.

    They may be paying they're own way now but lets not kid ourselves. Dublin and indeed Shannon and Cork have been State owned for years and thus developed with tax payers money over the years to get them into a position where they can stand on they're own two feet and be of great benefit to the regions they serve. Shouldn't the South East region be given the same opportunity?


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    #695
    Keen2win
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Keen2win


    Where can you buy flights from Waterford. I've looked up skyscanner and the website and can't find anything?


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    #696
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,856 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Keen2win wrote: »
    Where can you buy flights from Waterford. I've looked up skyscanner and the website and can't find anything?

    theres currently no operator out of waterford airport, hence the debate/arguments in this thread


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    #697
    Wrongway1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,350 ✭✭✭Wrongway1985


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    The airport is only 13 km from the city and a taxi journey doesn't cost a fortune

    or maybe get a lift from someone but no company in its right mind is going

    to pay a driver, the cost of diesel and a bus for a random passenger at

    Waterford Airport.

    It should be passenger's though a "random passenger" is not going to keep an airport afloat even describing them as such sums up the lack of care for those potential customers.

    I live 40mins from Waterford for instance I'd have to get a bus €16 return to Waterford, Return taxi to airport from city €50, so that's €66+ vs €30 return bus directly Dublin airport, thats even without comparing flight prices!


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    #698
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    Wrongway1985 wrote: »
    It should be passenger's though a "random passenger" is not going to keep an airport afloat even describing them as such sums up the lack of care for those potential customers.

    I live 40mins from Waterford for instance I'd have to get a bus €16 return to Waterford, Return taxi to airport from city €50, so that's €66+ vs €30 return bus directly Dublin airport, thats even without comparing flight prices!

    Potential doesn't pay the bills unfortunately but there is no doubt that your flights from Dublin would be cheaper.


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    #699
    Wrongway1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,350 ✭✭✭Wrongway1985


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    Potential doesn't pay the bills unfortunately but there is no doubt that your flights from Dublin would be cheaper.

    Organizing a 30/even 60 min bus from City to Airport would surely fall under the NDP,...Potential doesn't pay the bills bloody hell :rolleyes:


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    #700
    Dum_Dum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭Dum_Dum


    Surely a City > Hospital > Airport > Tramore route would be feasible?

    Even Kilkenny > Thomastown > New Ross > City > Hospital > Airport > Tramore


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    #701
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    Dum_Dum wrote: »
    Surely a City > Hospital > Airport > Tramore route would be feasible?

    Even Kilkenny > Thomastown > New Ross > City > Hospital > Airport > Tramore


    And what type of bus would you suggest they use for the journey and are the

    roads fit for purpose to carry a large bus from the Airport to Tramore.

    Some fairly sharp turns on that road and that's only driving a car!


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    #702
    jimbo1979
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭jimbo1979


    Just back from flying into Kerry airport from alicante.kerry fly to two London airports, Frankfurt and alicante with Ryanair.the place is about roughly same size as Waterford airport and it has to compete with poor roads to it and also take on the big boys of cork and Shannon airports in neighbouring countries.how it's doing so well is simply because Ryanair keep their costs low and I suppose Kerry tourism is second to none.i read today that Kerry are trying their best to build a port for cruise liners to come in.people might take the Mick out of the their politicians particularly the healy-raes but fair play to them they fight tooth and nail every week in the dail and Kerry council offices to do their best for the county and try and give it its full potential.a leaf could be taken out of their book for Waterford.if developed the right way we have a wonderful coast line,great mountain range some great towns in tramore Dungarvan lismore ardmore dunmore.all for tourism and of course Waterford city which has huge potential in tourism,the collage,IDA industrial parks and it's own north quay to attract cruise liners if it wanted.we have a airport on our own doorstep as well which could service all these potentials,we will have basically two motorways to Dublin in the next 3/4 years with the new Ross and enniscorthy by pass in progress.we could benefit with brexit happening in having a top collage and airport on our doorstep for other eu countries.we need to try our best to get investors and politicians to fight tooth and nail for our own county


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    #703
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    jimbo1979 wrote: »
    Just back from flying into Kerry airport from alicante.kerry fly to two London airports, Frankfurt and alicante with Ryanair.the place is about roughly same size as Waterford airport and it has to compete with poor roads to it and also take on the big boys of cork and Shannon airports in neighbouring countries.how it's doing so well is simply because Ryanair keep their costs low and I suppose Kerry tourism is second to none.i read today that Kerry are trying their best to build a port for cruise liners to come in.people might take the Mick out of the their politicians particularly the healy-raes but fair play to them they fight tooth and nail every week in the dail and Kerry council offices to do their best for the county and try and give it its full potential.a leaf could be taken out of their book for Waterford.if developed the right way we have a wonderful coast line,great mountain range some great towns in tramore Dungarvan lismore ardmore dunmore.all for tourism and of course Waterford city which has huge potential in tourism,the collage,IDA industrial parks and it's own north quay to attract cruise liners if it wanted.we have a airport on our own doorstep as well which could service all these potentials,we will have basically two motorways to Dublin in the next 3/4 years with the new Ross and enniscorthy by pass in progress.we could benefit with brexit happening in having a top collage and airport on our doorstep for other eu countries.we need to try our best to get investors and politicians to fight tooth and nail for our own county

    As has been said by me several times, you cannot sustain yourself on Ryanair business. Kerry has a PSO to Dublin with twice daily flights keeping it running, Waterford doesn't have this. You also don't have the runway length in WAT, and how can you fund it?


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    #704
    jimbo1979
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭jimbo1979


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    As has been said by me several times, you cannot sustain yourself on Ryanair business. Kerry has a PSO to Dublin with twice daily flights keeping it running, Waterford doesn't have this. You also don't have the runway length in WAT, and how can you fund it?

    This is the problem,people see obstacles and not solutions to problems.anything is achievable in this life if people want it.what we need is local politicians and councillors trying to make this work with businessmen and investors


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    #705
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    notharrypotter wrote: »
    and
    No commercial sense for any local business to invest as they would get no return on their investment.

    If they want to give money away I will happily send them my bank details.

    It is far more cost effective to send the employees to Cork/Dublin/Shannon.

    Remember Ireland is a small country with a small population.

    Figures of population numbers in SE/NW/S/W constantly get mentioned as "catchment" for the local airport.
    The reality is that many population centres get counted twice depending on what extent of gerrymandering is been used.

    Take Kilkenny for example.
    The SE will claim it as part of their catchment but most people from Kilkenny metropolis will simply travel to Dublin as its far easier to access.
    Kilkenny castle to Dublin airport is 1 hour 25min using the M9.
    Kilkenny castle to Waterford airport is 49 min using the M9.
    35 minutes is noting to most people travelling.

    Ireland has a surplus of airports.
    Waterford has a role but beyond a niche it will not be a major force.
    Quite simply the demand is not there.

    Investment in a runway extension will not bring any significant commercial operations.

    Throw in Carlow and North Wexford and you have the exact same...most of Tipp can just as easily access Cork and Shannon. Why would they bother with Waterford? . The catchment isn't there for WAT unless it was positioned agrsssively to serve the whole east not just the small sliver it has in the past. An alternative to Dublin for its catchment. I can't see it going on as it has up to now, nearly every small carrier must have had a failed stint there at this stage. If the business was there they'd would still be there too...
    I travel quite a bit and I've actually never met anybody who has used WAT. Is there any chance they could find the runway extension themselves rather than waiting for govt handouts that will be likely never come? Surely if it were a viable business proposition then this would be the logical scenario...


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    #706
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    jimbo1979 wrote: »
    This is the problem,people see obstacles and not solutions to problems.anything is achievable in this life if people want it.what we need is local politicians and councillors trying to make this work with businessmen and investors


    Corruption achieves everything right?

    Every successful airport in Ireland has turboprop operations. If Waterford is so viable, why can it not maintain one?


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    #707
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Dum_Dum wrote: »
    Surely a City > Hospital > Airport > Tramore route would be feasible?

    Even Kilkenny > Thomastown > New Ross > City > Hospital > Airport > Tramore

    If the airport did manage to get a service, it would be daily at best. Would a once daily bus service be even close to viable? And at most it would carry about 10 pax!


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    #708
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    If the airport did manage to get a service, it would be daily at best. Would a once daily bus service be even close to viable? And at most it would carry about 10 pax!

    No, it would not be worth anyone's while carrying ten passenger's from Waterford Airport, onwards and to Kilkenny. Fuel costs, payment for the driver
    amongst other costs just wouldn't make it viable.

    What charge would you be willing to pay for transport to and from the Airport? €10 each way?

    Maybe going forward they could include a charge on the booking to determine if there is a demand for it but how many routes then are you going to put up?

    You can't have a bus going from New Ross to Thurles and back to Waterford if you see where I'm coming from.


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    #709
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    Even car dealerships and hotels have free shuttle buses.

    An airport like Waterford needs to offer convenience and service as it cannot compete on price.

    Therefore perhaps they could offer a €10 return bus to the city center and 1-2 drop offs like the industrial estate or near the hospital.

    I'm sure plenty of local bus companies are available to hire. If you ran a 14 seater in and out once in the morning and once in the afternoon you'd probably do it.


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    #710
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    hardybuck wrote: »
    Even car dealerships and hotels have free shuttle buses.

    An airport like Waterford needs to offer convenience and service as it cannot compete on price.

    Therefore perhaps they could offer a €10 return bus to the city center and 1-2 drop offs like the industrial estate or near the hospital.

    I'm sure plenty of local bus companies are available to hire. If you ran a 14 seater in and out once in the morning and once in the afternoon you'd probably do it.

    They can't compete on price and you are suggesting additional charges!
    And you then suggest €10 return on a 14 seater bus!!!
    Where would you put the luggage?
    If this is the volume of traffic that would need a bus why then would we need an airport?
    It wouldn't be worth the bother to be honest.

    Maybe if they got the first part right they wouldn't be where they are now!
    It was a good idea and I used it on a few occasions but it all comes down to pricing and I along with a lot of others will always go with cost and value.


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    #711
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    They can't compete on price and you are suggesting additional charges!
    And you then suggest €10 return on a 14 seater bus!!!
    Where would you put the luggage?
    If this is the volume of traffic that would need a bus why then would need an airport?
    It wouldn't be worth the bother to be honest.

    Maybe if they got the first part right they wouldn't be where they are now!
    It was a good idea and I used it on a few occasions but it all comes down to pricing and I along with a lot of others will always go with cost and value.

    Ah look - I'm not working for the airport. I don't know their volume or margins. They have their own people to figure it all out.

    If Boland's car garage can do a free shuttle then you'd think the airport could get something going out there.


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    #712
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    hardybuck wrote: »
    Ah look - I'm not working for the airport. I don't know their volume or margins. They have their own people to figure it all out.

    If Boland's car garage can do a free shuttle then you'd think the airport could get something going out there.

    Bolands free shuttle is not exclusive to Bolands but covers all garages if I'm not mistaken. The hire of a bus for a day would cost in the region of €450 and that weekly works out at €3,150. Quite a free gesture you might say!!!


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    #713
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    Bolands free shuttle is not exclusive to Bolands but covers all garages if I'm not mistaken. The hire of a bus for a day would cost in the region of €450 and that weekly works out at €3,150. Quite a free gesture you might say!!!

    It also goes non stop during the day. The airport doesn't? So if I was trying or organise it. I wouldn't be looking to hire it for a day, and I have suggested a fee.

    So if you ran a service in the morning and afternoon, or whenever it is the handful of flights are scheduled, you'd be making a good start.


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    #714
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    hardybuck wrote: »
    It also goes non stop during the day. The airport doesn't? So if I was trying or organise it. I wouldn't be looking to hire it for a day, and I have suggested a fee.

    So if you ran a service in the morning and afternoon, or whenever it is the handful of flights are scheduled, you'd be making a good start.

    I think they're getting on fine at the moment without it! :)


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    #715
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    I think they're getting on fine at the moment without it! :)

    The airport? That doesn't have any scheduled services?


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    #716
    MentalMario
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭MentalMario


    Should have stayed quiet, fella ;)

    What time were the flights? To get a bus that early in the morning you'd be competing with the school run so there may not be too many buses available to do the run to the airport at the time needed.

    A few 8 seater taxis would probably do the job. You could surely work out a decent deal with Rapid Cabs to provide 3 8 seater taxis to run. Once in the morning. Once in the evening.


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    #717
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    With the prices of the VLM flights, I doubt very much that the clientele were the non-driving sort.


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    #718
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Parking was a nice little earner, why would they encourage people to come to the airport by anything other than car?

    Having said that, I used it and would gladly continue to use it if flights were available.


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    #719
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    With the prices of the VLM flights, I doubt very much that the clientele were the non-driving sort.

    As a matter of interest, how much was a typical return flight to London or Birmingham?


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    #720
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Don't all the JJ Kavanagh Dublin buses run from Tramore? Would hardly be too much of a stretch to get a few of these stopping by the Airport...of course it'd need actual flights for that to ever happen and I'm sure there's probably licensing issues


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    #721
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    road_high wrote: »
    As a matter of interest, how much was a typical return flight to London or Birmingham?

    About €104 at their cheapest if I recall correctly.


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