Waterford Airport.

lassykk

You can see the poster in questions comment in quoted text on the last page.

Another poster, who's posts are still there started on the defence.

Not making a judgement as to who's in the right or wrong just that it happened!

Cosmo Kramer

This is getting messy. It reminds me of Galway near the end. The staff there staged a sit in until everyone had forgotten about them and then they just went home.

It's obviously difficult for all involved but if there are no scheduled services then it's very hard to argue that staff should be there continuing on a 39 hour week. What would they be doing to fill the time - no scheduled flights presumably means no scheduled passengers and far less work to be done?

Hopefully something can be done to save the airport longer term but I can't see how wasting money on paying staff who are not needed at the moment is going to help with that.

tomobriendeise

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

This is getting messy. It reminds me of Galway near the end. The staff there staged a sit in until everyone had forgotten about them and then they just went home.

It's obviously difficult for all involved but if there are no scheduled services then it's very hard to argue that staff should be there continuing on a 39 hour week. What would they be doing to fill the time - no scheduled flights presumably means no scheduled passengers and far less work to be done?

Hopefully something can be done to save the airport longer term but I can't see how wasting money on paying staff who are not needed at the moment is going to help with that.

Operations staff being cut I believe 48% that is 39 hrs to 21hrs . Supervisors from 35 to 33 hrs, management don't know , desk staff 39 to 31.


At this time 09.45 11/7/16 a few members of staff who turned up on there 39 hr rostered week are being denied airside access. The airport management are denying them access because staff won't work 21hr roster without proper negotiations. I am not sure but I believe there was no negotiations the staff were just told 21hrs and that's it the staff also didn't receive a month's notice which I think is common for the airport to give. I think the fairness of cut's across the board is a point the operations staff are not happy with.

jimbo1979

Waterford airport needs to model itself on Kerry airport.kerry competes with both cork and Shannon as neighbours.it fly's to two London airports Frankfurt and alicante that I know of.waterford as a county should have more than Kerry for a lot of things going on.i suppose political clout and local people that really work for their county in gaining in this service can work.a lot could be said about Waterford.it has the potential to be every bit as good plus we have a port that could be developed for cruise ships and cargo.we have a collage that should be university status and we have Ida parks to invest in big companies.but as I said the political clout in this county has been piss poor the last 25 years

JCX BXC

jimbo1979 wrote: »

Waterford airport needs to model itself on Kerry airport.kerry competes with both cork and Shannon as neighbours.it fly's to two London airports Frankfurt and alicante that I know of.waterford as a county should have more than Kerry for a lot of things going on.i suppose political clout and local people that really work for their county in gaining in this service can work.a lot could be said about Waterford.it has the potential to be every bit as good plus we have a port that could be developed for cruise ships and cargo.we have a collage that should be university status and we have Ida parks to invest in big companies.but as I said the political clout in this county has been piss poor the last 25 years

How can Waterford model itself on Kerry, when the two things that make Kerry successful aren't present at WAT?

1). You need a PSO route. Will never happen.
2). You need Ryanair, or at least a runway long enough to allow them operate, again, no plans for this so probably will never happen.

So base yourself on Kerry despite having none of the things that make Kerry somewhat successful.

cookie.monster

jimbo1979 wrote: »

Waterford airport needs to model itself on Kerry airport.kerry competes with both cork and Shannon as neighbours.it fly's to two London airports Frankfurt and alicante that I know of.waterford as a county should have more than Kerry for a lot of things going on.i suppose political clout and local people that really work for their county in gaining in this service can work.a lot could be said about Waterford.it has the potential to be every bit as good plus we have a port that could be developed for cruise ships and cargo.we have a collage that should be university status and we have Ida parks to invest in big companies.but as I said the political clout in this county has been piss poor the last 25 years

waterford back in 70's and early 80's was leading the way in tonnage coming through the port well ahead of cork, dublin and foynes, this all collapsed due to a strike by the gangs or dockers that unloaded the ships who went on strike because when one of the gang retired or died they didn't replace the person but split the persons salary between the remaining men and port of waterford wanted to put a stop to it so they all walked, to this day that strike was never resolved and held waterford back with regards investment and jobs

Wanderer78

This seems to be escalating

notharrypotter

Wanderer78 wrote: »

This seems to be escalating

????

Link?

Wanderer78

notharrypotter wrote: »

????

Link?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0720/803611-waterford-airport/

b757

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

It's obviously difficult for all involved but if there are no scheduled services then it's very hard to argue that staff should be there continuing on a 39 hour week. What would they be doing to fill the time - no scheduled flights presumably means no scheduled passengers and far less work to be done?

*cough*

CantGetNoSleep

From Flemish press on VLM - no idea if Waterford will be in this plan though

Dutch taxi company in VLM takeover bid

The Dutch taxi company Tinker has ambitions to take over the Antwerp carrier VLM Airlines. The curator, Jan Loyens, did not want to comment on the case, but confirmed there are also other candidates. "But it's sometimes difficult to assess how serious their intentions are."
The Deurne-based VLM Airlines (Antwerp) went bankrupt last month and left a deficit of more than 6 million euros. The jobs of some 160 employees are at stake as curator Jan Loyens is trying to work out a solution as soon as possible.

Freddy Van Gaever, the Belgian businessman who founded the airline in 1992, was a candidate for a takeover at one stage, but threw in the towel. "It's difficult to judge how serious a takeover bid really is", Loyens told Gazet Van Antwerpen.

He confirmed there are several candidates. The latest is the Dutch taxi company Tinker, a transport firm that brings passengers from their home to an airport. "We started 3 years ago in the Netherlands, but have branches in Belgium and other countries in Europe", CEO Gerben Abbink told Gazet Van Antwerpen. Abbink aims to offer short-distance flights of "600 km maximum". He said he had presented "a detailed plan" to Loyens, and is now waiting for more information about the conditions of a takeover.

Max Powers

Whole thing is a mess, they need to talk and realise, with no planes that reduced hours is likely.bad for Waterford and reputation, bad for any hope of runway grant and bad for getting new planes in there.what's really bad too is reports of intimidation against people who need to be in there for safety reasons and other people actually working on trying to get new carrier in.obviously it's painful for those on reduced hours too bit I sincerely believe this won't help the airport and consequently themselves in short, medium or long term.looks like union has committed to its position and won't back down now for fear of showing weakness.

robtri

Max Powers wrote: »

Whole thing is a mess, they need to talk and realise, with no planes that reduced hours is likely.bad for Waterford and reputation, bad for any hope of runway grant and bad for getting new planes in there.what's really bad too is reports of intimidation against people who need to be in there for safety reasons and other people actually working on trying to get new carrier in.obviously it's painful for those on reduced hours too bit I sincerely believe this won't help the airport and consequently themselves in short, medium or long term.looks like union has committed to its position and won't back down now for fear of showing weakness.

Unions to screw waterford again!!!!!

Wanderer2010

But have any of the management team of Waterford Airport come right out and said they were also getting cuts to their salary? Because if not, and only the workers on the ground are being hammered, then of course I can see where the anger stems from..

Masala

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

But have any of the management team of Waterford Airport come right out and said they were also getting cuts to their salary? Because if not, and only the workers on the ground are being hammered, then of course I can see where the anger stems from..

But if the Management Team need to continue to work 5-6 days a week to try and keep the place open - then I don't see why they should take a pay cut. They are trying to keep the workers in jobs....they should be paid for their time.

I would presume that those on reduced hours can go to the Social and claim for the days they not working.

OR are the workers being asked to continue to work 39 hrs and take a reduced pay per hour??? if that the case - then I can see the argument for management taking a pay cut.

Without Management getting the airport back on track.... there will be no-one getting paid full stop. You cant expect Management to reduce their hours to 21 a week and seriously consider that that is enough to keep the place open.

notharrypotter

Masala wrote: »

But if the Management Team need to continue to work 5-6 days a week to try and keep the place open - then I don't see why they should take a pay cut. They are trying to keep the workers in jobs....they should be paid for their time.

I would presume that those on reduced hours can go to the Social and claim for the days they not working.

OR are the workers being asked to continue to work 39 hrs and take a reduced pay per hour??? if that the case - then I can see the argument for management taking a pay cut.

Without Management getting the airport back on track.... there will be no-one getting paid full stop. You cant expect Management to reduce their hours to 21 a week and seriously consider that that is enough to keep the place open.

Interesting fact that the last people to leave any troubled enterprise are HR.
Someone has to do up the P45's.

Despite the rhetoric Waterford management will not be burning the midnight oil trying to source a replacement carrier.

Quite simply the number of operators who have suitable equipment could be counted on both hands.

The number who have uncommitted equipment which cannot get a greater return elsewhere probably on one.

All the talk of a runway extension is moot if there is not a sound business case. There is no massive pent up demand.
Consumers have been conditioned to expect to pay peanuts for their air fare.
This model can work where there is a sizeable population base.

The SE of Ireland does not constitute a sizeable population base.


And EU funding rules will dictate exactly how much "support" can be allocated.

Cork airport is 135Km away.
Dublin Airport is 189Km away.
Shannon is 163Km away.

Long term outlook will be interesting.

Max Powers

notharrypotter wrote: »

Interesting fact that the last people to leave any troubled enterprise are HR.
Someone has to do up the P45's.

Despite the rhetoric Waterford management will not be burning the midnight oil trying to source a replacement carrier.

Quite simply the number of operators who have suitable equipment could be counted on both hands.

The number who have uncommitted equipment which cannot get a greater return elsewhere probably on one.

All the talk of a runway extension is moot if there is not a sound business case. There is no massive pent up demand.
Consumers have been conditioned to expect to pay peanuts for their air fare.
This model can work where there is a sizeable population base.

The SE of Ireland does not constitute a sizeable population base.


And EU funding rules will dictate exactly how much "support" can be allocated.

Cork airport is 135Km away.
Dublin Airport is 189Km away.
Shannon is 163Km away.

Long term outlook will be interesting.

I would say the west of Ireland has same population and they can sustain it so decent runway and decent carrier, should be viable.think the vlm numbers were good.Well, that's what heard someone say on wlr.

robtri

Max Powers wrote: »

I would say the west of Ireland has same population and they can sustain it so decent runway and decent carrier, should be viable.think the vlm numbers were good.Well, that's what heard someone say on wlr.

numbers in waterford sucked!!!

2015 Numbers

Dublin 25,049,335
Cork 2,071,210
Shannon 1,714,872
Knock 703,318
Kerry 307,000
Waterford 34,213

the Aran Islands had more passenger numbers at 39,506

b757

robtri wrote: »

numbers in waterford sucked!!!

2015 Numbers

Dublin 25,049,335
Cork 2,071,210
Shannon 1,714,872
Knock 703,318
Kerry 307,000
Waterford 34,213

the Aran Islands had more passenger numbers at 39,506

Because it had 3 return flights 3 (Mon, Wed, Fri) days per week, 2 return 3 (Tues, Thurs, Sun) days and 1 return 1 (Sat) day per week. All with a 50 seat aircraft, operated by a relatively unknown airline; which ended up becoming bankrupt due to no fault of Waterford.


Done pretty well over the Summer last year with increasing numbers every month. Look at all the facts before you post.

robtri

b757 wrote: »

Because it had 3 return flights 3 (Mon, Wed, Fri) days per week, 2 return 3 (Tues, Thurs, Sun) days and 1 return 1 (Sat) day per week. All with a 50 seat aircraft, operated by a relatively unknown airline; which ended up becoming bankrupt due to no fault of Waterford.


Done pretty well over the Summer last year with increasing numbers every month. Look at all the facts before you post.

i did look... numbers sucked.... 34k passengers numbers is crap for an airport... facts are passengers numbers and Waterford doesnt cut it....

make whatever excuses you want the numbers are terrible and would not encourage many airlines, especially the big players to come here...

man98

Just a note here: Flybe did have 93% of seats filled in summertime when they served the airport. There is an issue with yield, but some of VLM's issues were because no one knew who they were and because their prices were worse than Aer Arann in 2008...

notharrypotter

man98 wrote: »

Just a note here: Flybe did have 93% of seats filled in summertime when they served the airport. There is an issue with yield, but some of VLM's issues were because no one knew who they were and because their prices were worse than Aer Arann in 2008...

Perhaps they were charging the actual cost of running the service.

Some people have unrealistic expectations regarding what they are willing to pay vs the true cost of providing a service.

man98

notharrypotter wrote: »

Perhaps they were charging the actual cost of running the service.

Perhaps BE were on the ball for charging extra for food and checked baggage. I don't like the practice, but it doesn't cut ice with the Irish public these days apparently, much to my disdain.

b757

Flybe's MAN and BHX routes were cut due to the fact that they were in financial difficulty at the time, they also had a lack of aircraft and crew. Not lack of pax numbers.

That being said; expect some news soon, hopefully something comes to fruition.

south

Strike over. Workers returning work after an agreement was made between parties

Sully

What work is there with no flights? Genuine question. Wonder what goes on beyond airport doors when nobody is flying in or out

notharrypotter

SAR helicopter is based there.
Flying club.

There was a flying school that closed a few years ago.

Not sure if there is another flying school in residence.

Wanderer78

notharrypotter wrote:

Not sure if there is another flying school in residence.

I don't think theres any school out there now, just those that you 've mentioned

CelticRambler

What happened to the European College of Aviation? They were offering "fear of flying" sessions for a while, aswell as recruitment services. Their web address no longer goes anywhere.

Wanderer78

CelticRambler wrote:

What happened to the European College of Aviation? They were offering "fear of flying" sessions for a while, aswell as recruitment services. Their web address no longer goes anywhere.

Think that was the place that folded couple of years ago. There was war over it, lads half way through training and paid up