“Ireland has a rape culture”

anewme · 29-09-2019 12:09am

Silentcorner wrote: »

anewme wrote: »

Well, how do you know 100% if you are not the poster? It's not worth taking a chance on. How can you stand for someone s character on an anonymous message board?

Someone saying ' I love raping" is inviting questioning.

Outside of that, too many excuses around here for mysogonostic behaviour and not enough calling people out on it.

The word misogynistic has lost all meaning...it has been used too often for way too many trivial things...it has lost its power.

Somebody could accuse me (or any man) of being a misogynist I wouldn't bat an eyelid anymore...the person calling me that would be a moron!

That's your choice and interpretation.

It does not change the meaning of the word because you interpret it in your own way.

Omackeral · 29-09-2019 12:19am

anewme wrote: »

Well, how do you know 100% if you are not the poster? It's not worth taking a chance on. How can you stand for someone s character on an anonymous message board?

Someone saying ' I love raping" is inviting questioning.

anewme wrote: »

That's your choice and interpretation.

It does not change the meaning of the word because you interpret it in your own way.

Speaking about changing meanings of words. The word culture in rape culture is an absolute misnomer. Culture is defined as a set of beliefs, customs or behaviors shared by peoples. What section of society in this country promotes rape can I ask? What group of people find forced penetration of another acceptable? Where are the fortnightly organised meet-ups of all these like-minded individuals? Where are their forums? Where are their meeting halls? Where is their media outlet? If you can give me answers to all those questions, then maybe I'll find the term a little more palatable. Until then, nah.

Someone saying ''I love raping'' is daft too by the way but I'm guessing it's most likely said in a tongue-in-cheek manner.

Wibbs · 29-09-2019 12:21am

anewme wrote: »

Someone saying ' I love raping" is inviting questioning.

Mostly only if one is a member of the twitterati angling for likes. To most anybody else it's a "joke", one in poor taste depending on context most certainly, but not some judgement on wider society. And certainly not an indication of some misogynist patriarchy that's being wished into existence by some, when the actual evidence and facts are significantly greyer than such simplistic if easy to swallow comfortable notions. Then again people tend to prefer easy to swallow secondhand notions that are comfortable for them and what they already believe.

The very fact that rape as a word and subject is a dogwhistle for all sorts of rending of garments and gnashing of teeth and rated, outside of law, as "worse than murder" is but one example of the focus. Never mind that actual rapists are hated and under near constant threat of harm within and without our prison system shows more of the actual culture than the henny penny sky is falling down narrative of "rape culture" among the permanently anxious, neurotic and offended.

Is sexual assault a problem? Of course it bloody well is. Duuhhh. So are many other crimes against the person, but we don't live in a "crimes against the person culture" either.

Outside of that, too many excuses around here for mysogonostic behaviour and not enough calling people out on it.

Oh give me an ever loving bloody break. There are enough handwringers to go around in the online world, only too happy, nay salivating at the thought of fighting the good fight agin any "ist" and "istic" description you care to muster.

That's your choice and interpretation.

It does not change the meaning of the word because you interpret it in your own way.

I do hate to break it to you, but that's how words and concepts work. You are doing the exact same thing.

Silentcorner · 29-09-2019 12:22am

anewme wrote: »

That's your choice and interpretation.

It does not change the meaning of the word because you interpret it in your own way.

I know it does not change the meaning of the word, I said it has lost its meaning, the word is meaningless....9 year old girls use it in classrooms these days to describe things they don't understand!

I know why you are using that word, it has been normalized by media and modern day outrage/hysteria culture....it says a lot more about you than it does about the people with which you refer.

anewme · 29-09-2019 12:45am

Omackeral wrote: »

anewme wrote: »

Well, how do you know 100% if you are not the poster? It's not worth taking a chance on. How can you stand for someone s character on an anonymous message board?

Someone saying ' I love raping" is inviting questioning.

anewme wrote: »

That's your choice and interpretation.

It does not change the meaning of the word because you interpret it in your own way.

Someone saying ''I love raping'' is daft too by the way but I'm guessing it's most likely said in a tongue-in-cheek manner.

Do you know this person?

Can you vouch for them 100%?

Guessing its tongue in cheek leaves too big of a gap.

I've trained in a professional capacity in this area and everything you and Wibbs are saying here is totally against what I've been trained in.

How do you know better than professionals?

hetuzozaho · 29-09-2019 12:50am

Wibbs wrote: »

Mostly only if one is a member of the twitterati angling for likes. To most anybody else it's a "joke", one in poor taste

I think the term rape culture would include rape jokes. From the definitions I've read online?

Feel this thread may be using different definitions - it's often useful for people to agree on such a thing before starting a debate.

I even see the twitterati denying the existence of rape culture(angling for likes as you say) and then asking what it means in their next tweet.

Omackeral · 29-09-2019 1:01am

anewme wrote: »

Do you know this person?

Can you vouch for them 100%?

Guessing its tongue in cheek leaves too big of a gap.

I've trained in a professional capacity in this area and everything you and Wibbs are saying here is totally against what I've been trained in.

How do you know better than professionals?

I hope you just trained and aren't trusted to advise or educate on these matters because your attitude is frankly deluded at best and dangerous at worst. Your post is also skirting around everything put to you in that you absolutely ignored the most salient points put forward regarding culture and acceptance of rape.

Veritas Libertas · 29-09-2019 1:28am

anewme wrote: »

I've trained in a professional capacity in this area and everything you and Wibbs are saying here is totally against what I've been trained in.

I don't mean to pry or be rude, but what training did you receive and from what awarding body?

(Just what is relevant to what has already been said)

Calhoun · 29-09-2019 1:35am

cloudatlas wrote: »

No I'm pretty sure sociologists use the term to encompass victim blaiming, slut shaming and societal misogyny possibly leading to sexual abuse /rape as one of the consequences of those societal norms.

Well then as i said we really are trying to undermine the severity of the act in and of itself by trying to nail on every possible slight on women equating to it.

I can understand if a person committed the act and those comments were used to describe the victim. In that case we agree that is rape culture but if a person calls another loose in one form of the other i don't think its the same thing. Especially calling someone a bitch that doesn't make sense at all.

Calhoun · 29-09-2019 1:38am

Omackeral wrote: »

I hope you just trained and aren't trusted to advise or educate on these matters because your attitude is frankly deluded at best and dangerous at worst. Your post is also skirting around everything put to you in that you absolutely ignored the most salient points put forward regarding culture and acceptance of rape.

The dangerous thing is attitudes like this are what leads to public bodies becoming institutionally corrupt, in the UK the crown prosecution service had allot of their rape cases thrown out or overturned because it was found they withheld evidence that proved innocence of the accused.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 29-09-2019 2:06am

pebbletroy wrote: »

<edit> post that just got me permabanned from the forum... </edit>

Boards doesn’t suit you.

Try 4chan.

Veritas Libertas · 29-09-2019 2:09am

Calhoun wrote: »

The dangerous thing is attitudes like this are what leads to public bodies becoming institutionally corrupt, in the UK the crown prosecution service had allot of their rape cases thrown out or overturned because it was found they withheld evidence that proved innocence of the accused.

I don't trust feminist 'data' anymore. I did a deep dive into this a few years ago, trying to get the bottom of it.

Apparently in the questionnaires they leave questions purposefully ambiguous so that they can interpret the data to suit their needs. This type of 'science' would not be accepted anywhere else.

Like past surveys on campus sexual assault respondants were not asked whether they were raped or sexually assaulted. Such direct questions are known to yield low numbers of victimization. Instead the authors asked if the students experienced a range of behaviours from forced penetration to things like unwanted touching, grabbing, kissing. If someone rubbed up against you in a sexual way at a party; that could count.

-Christina Hoff-Sommers(The Factual Feminist)

If anyone believes I'm wrong, I'm happy to change my mind if someone can point me to some proper science regarding this issue.

20Wheel · 29-09-2019 2:38am

The Factual Feminist....

wait.

what?

Veritas Libertas · 29-09-2019 3:01am

20Wheel wrote: »

The Factual Feminist....
wait.
what?

Sommers' positions and writing have been characterized by the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy as "equity feminism".
(A classical-liberal or libertarian feminist perspective holding that the main political role of feminism is to ensure that the right against coercive interference is not infringed.)

Sommers has contrasted equity feminism with what she terms victim feminism and gender feminism, arguing that modern feminist thought often contains an "irrational hostility to men" and possesses an "inability to take seriously the possibility that the sexes are equal but different".

1800_Ladladlad · 29-09-2019 3:18am

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

You people are so poisonous, it's incredible.

'Man-hating' - you can't stand it that women actually have rights and that men sometimes (sometimes being the key word here) end up paying for their criminal acts against women

'abortion loving' - you can't stand it that women are allowed to decide what happens to their own bodies and would prefer for them to have children they can't cope with, even in cases of rape or serious health issues, than have any say in the matter

'immigrant loving' - just say you're a racist and a xenophobe and hate anyone not like you

#metoo - yeah, just take a hashtag aimed at raising awareness of how common sexual assault/harassment is and insinuate that it's some kind of attack on men

career female - you think women aren't actual real people with rent and bills to pay just like men. God forbid any woman would want a life that doesn't revolve around raising children and cleaning the house.

Why don't you try the Daily Mail? Plenty of your sort over on their comment section.

joeguevara · 29-09-2019 3:32am

How can something that happened two decades ago have any determination on modern culture. The fact that the Belfast trial was used to base this assumption is crazy especially considering the verdict (I am aware that there is an argument that the verdict could be seen as making certain actions seem acceptable).

A rape culture would mean that there is a collective belief that non-consexual sex is acceptable in Irish society. I cannot comprehend that people believe that.

Yes people are raped. Yes people are scared to come forward. But no its not acceptance. People do bad things. But they are the outside. It is never considered normal.

Victims of such a heinous act will obviously see things through that experience. This lady who felt the Belfast trial raised all her emotions is a good example. Every headline she read brought things back. It's more likely people would focus on similar stories and then correlate that to modern culture. But that doesn't make it true. If my house was burgled I would then be affected by every burglary story or case and that would make me believe we have a burglary culture. It is sloppy journalism and a dangerous headline.

Veritas Libertas · 29-09-2019 5:11am

cloudatlas wrote: »

If the accused isn't found guility then the woman is a 'liar' and her bad experience is negated.

Maybe by some, but is labelled a hero in other circles.

Dr. Christine Blasey Ford Is An American Hero HuffPo
Ford has faced aggression and ridicule, as well as support and admiration Guardian
The hero Christine Blasey Ford The Week
Why Dr. Christine Blasey Ford is an American Hero Changewire

joeguevara · 29-09-2019 5:28am

People saying feminism is an underlying issue is also incorrect. Feminism has so many different types and genres. I find Catherine McKinnon thesis absolutely abhorrent as she believes that every act of sex with a man is considered rape because a woman cannot consent because she has been downtrodden by men since the dawn of time.

But feminism where the basis is equality sits well with me. People who denigrate a movement because they dislike some aspects of it are close minded at best and mysoginistic at worst.

Rape and indeed all sexual assault trials are a different beast to all other criminal trials though. Because in the majority of cases it is a he said v she said basis of evidence. If someone is found not guilty then it is inferred (whether you like it or not) that the other person lied. It is rare that sex is denied and all about consent. That is different to say a murder case where it could be about men's Rea to whether the person was even there.

To say Ireland has a rape culture is saying that our society is abhorrent. It is not accepted or promoted. And to base it off this article is ludicrous.

anewme · 29-09-2019 8:30am

Calhoun wrote: »

Omackeral wrote: »

I hope you just trained and aren't trusted to advise or educate on these matters because your attitude is frankly deluded at best and dangerous at worst. Your post is also skirting around everything put to you in that you absolutely ignored the most salient points put forward regarding culture and acceptance of rape.

The dangerous thing is attitudes like this are what leads to public bodies becoming institutionally corrupt, in the UK the crown prosecution service had allot of their rape cases thrown out or overturned because it was found they withheld evidence that proved innocence of the accused.

Attitudes like what exactly?

Maybe look inwards.

So, the poster who writes, I love raping is using dark humor but the poster who asks do you know this for definite must be deluded.

El_Duderino 09 · 29-09-2019 8:40am

noel1980 wrote: »

"Consent classes should be given in primary schools, she believes."

Consent should be included in teaching about sex, relationships and sexuality. So age appropriate discussion of consent should begin in primary school. It’s a pretty important concept and lots of people’s understanding of consent is very fuzzy.

Silentcorner · 29-09-2019 9:31am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Consent should be included in teaching about sex, relationships and sexuality. So age appropriate discussion of consent should begin in primary school. It’s a pretty important concept and lots of people’s understanding of consent is very fuzzy.

I wouldn't have a huge problem with consent classes.

But are we going to teach our kids that it is only women that can be victims of sexual misadventure/assault?

Are we going to teach kids about female manipulation and how it relates to sexual relationships? Or the dysfunction (sexual violence and intimate partner violence) of Lesbian Relationships?

Are we going to lift the lid on the human flaws of one gender or both genders?

suicide_circus · 29-09-2019 9:38am

Silentcorner wrote: »

Are we going to lift the lid on the human flaws of one gender or both genders?

these are kids we're talking about, lets not get too nuanced. Keep the narrative simple. One sided and simple.

hetuzozaho · 29-09-2019 9:39am

Silentcorner wrote: »

I wouldn't have a huge problem with consent classes.

But are we going to teach our kids that it is only women that can be victims of sexual misadventure/assault?

Is that what some of the curriculum you've seen has been doing? I did a quick Google but can't really see what is being taught, have you a link?

ILoveYourVibes · 29-09-2019 9:42am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Presumably we also have a shoplifting culture? and a violent assault culture? Probably 50 other cultures too.

We are very cultured.

We do.

We also have a rape culture. But its not pleasant to talk about and its upsetting for both genders in different ways understandably so we don't talk about it. Or I don't.

I know its there though.

And yes anyone who has worked in retail will tell you there IS a shoplifting culture. Its cool for teens to try it. They even do it on dares etc.

El_Duderino 09 · 29-09-2019 9:46am

Silentcorner wrote: »

I wouldn't have a huge problem with consent classes.

But are we going to teach our kids that it is only women that can be victims of sexual misadventure/assault?

Are we going to teach kids about female manipulation and how it relates to sexual relationships? Or the dysfunction (sexual violence and intimate partner violence) of Lesbian Relationships?

Are we going to lift the lid on the human flaws of one gender or both genders?

Well anyone can be sexually assaulted. But it would be stupid to teach that a woman can rape a man because the law in Ireland doesn’t currently cognise the concept of a woman raping a man.

I’d have thought domestic violence would arise. If you want it to be a blame game, then I think you might be very disappointed. Why would you want it to be a blame game ?

I’d say it domestic abuse would arise but why would you want specifically to highlight “female sexual manipulation”? Why not just discuss the concept of manipulation and controlling behaviours in relationships?

Children don’t have all the hang ups you carry. I wouldn’t be inclined to pass your hang ups to them.

I’d make it fairly gender neutral and explain the concepts. I’d also support changing the rape law in Ireland to reflect the shared responsibility of consent.

suicide_circus · 29-09-2019 9:48am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

We do.

We also have a rape culture. But its not pleasant to talk about and its upsetting for both genders in different ways understandably so we don't talk about it. Or I don't.

I know its there though.

And yes anyone who has worked in retail will tell you there IS a shoplifting culture. Its cool for teens to try it. They even do it on dares etc.

Culture

noun
1.
the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
"20th century popular culture"
2.
the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society.
"Afro-Caribbean culture"

ILoveYourVibes · 29-09-2019 9:51am

suicide_circus wrote: »

2.
the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society.
"Afro-Caribbean culture"

Yes and there is definitely a 'shoplifting culture' in some parts of dublin.

suicide_circus · 29-09-2019 9:52am

We may have a "crime culture" among a small percentage of the population but to claim that every different type of crime constitutes its own culture is just daft

ILoveYourVibes · 29-09-2019 9:56am

suicide_circus wrote: »

We may have a "crime culture" among a small percentage of the population but to claim that every different type of crime constitutes its own culture is just daft

Its not at all daft and is very much the truth.

Our banking world had a culture that led to a number of crimes. Our political culture led to Charles Haughey.

Its a very different culture to the shoplifting culture on O'Connell or Henry street though.

Different rules and social behaviors.

Omackeral · 29-09-2019 9:59am

anewme wrote: »

So, the poster who writes, I love raping is using dark humor but the poster who asks do you know this for definite must be deluded.

Is that really all you can cling to? I don't know the poster that said that. I said I figured they're using dark humour. I don't know them obviously. I sincerely doubt that they a) love raping or b) would be openly saying it if they did.

Now, how about addressing some of the other points made? How is there a rape culture when every part of society abhors rapists? Why do sex offenders require their own protective status in prisons? The fact that we can joke about murdering a curry no bother but saying a team ''got raped'' in the football is no-no tells us quite a bit doesn't it. Rape is beyond the pale in nearly every facet of Irish life hence we do not have a rape culture.

Omackeral · 29-09-2019 10:02am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Consent should be included in teaching about sex, relationships and sexuality. So age appropriate discussion of consent should begin in primary school. It’s a pretty important concept and lots of people’s understanding of consent is very fuzzy.

I've no real issues with this. The issue starts when proponents for same add the caveat that ''young men need to'' or ''we owe this to our girls'', which you often see. It should be either for everyone or no-one.

hetuzozaho · 29-09-2019 10:03am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its not at all daft and is very much the truth.

Our banking world had a culture that led to a number of crimes. Our political culture led to Charles Haughey.

Its a very different culture to the shoplifting culture on O'Connell or Henry street though.

Different rules and social behaviors.

And the Paddy Jackson WhatsApp group had a culture too. One that we could do without imo. Not one that would fly in the couple of groups I'm part of.

Omackeral · 29-09-2019 10:04am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

We do.

We also have a rape culture.

How? Explain. Who accepts it? What groups advocate it? Where are their meet-ups? Where is it openly tolerated in society?

Omackeral · 29-09-2019 10:05am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yes and there is definitely a 'shoplifting culture' in some parts of dublin.

Right. Let's suppose that's true. Where is rape acceptable?

ILoveYourVibes · 29-09-2019 10:08am

Omackeral wrote: »

Right. Let's suppose that's true. Where is rape acceptable?

Catholic church.

Omackeral · 29-09-2019 10:19am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Catholic church.

Past historical Church abuses does not equate to Modern Ireland having a rape culture. Next.

anewme · 29-09-2019 10:27am

Omackeral wrote: »

anewme wrote: »

So, the poster who writes, I love raping is using dark humor but the poster who asks do you know this for definite must be deluded.

Is that really all you can cling to? I don't know the poster that said that. I said I figured they're using dark humour. I don't know them obviously. I sincerely doubt that they a) love raping or b) would be openly saying it if they did.

If you dont know the poster in question, then you cannot say whether or not they are telling the truth or taking the piss.

If someone says they are going to commit suicide, you take them at face value and act accordingly. If someone threats against anyones personal safety against you, you take them at face value and act accordingly. So if someone says they love raping, then they could well mean it. It's not your place to make assumptions. You also don’t know how the public would take that statement.

Calling that deluded or dangerous says more about you.

I'm not sure why you say I'm clinging to one point...I specifically commented on that aspect of this thread. That comments like that are inflammatory and add nothing to the discussion.

What part of this do you find as dangerous and deluded attitude exactly?

Laws will change in relation to Social Media where people will be held accountable for what they write and trolls will end up being prosecuted.

El_Duderino 09 · 29-09-2019 10:28am

Omackeral wrote: »

I've no real issues with this. The issue starts when proponents for same add the caveat that ''young men need to'' or ''we owe this to our girls'', which you often see. It should be either for everyone or no-one.

Sure and of course, I didn’t say any of that because that’s not what I’d want.

So we know the feminists will be interested in shaping any potential course. At the moment there Is no equivalent men’s lobby group unfortunately.

Omackeral · 29-09-2019 10:34am

anewme wrote: »

If you dont know the poster in question, then you cannot say whether or not they are telling the truth or taking the piss.

If someone says they are going to commit suicide, you take them at face value and act accordingly. If someone threats against anyones personal safety against you, you take them at face value and act accordingly. So if someone says they love raping, then they could well mean it. It's not your place to make assumptions. You also don’t know how the public would take that statement.

Calling that deluded or dangerous says more about you.

I'm not sure why you say I'm clinging to one point...I specifically commented on that aspect of this thread. That comments like that are inflammatory and add nothing to the discussion.

Laws will change in relation to Social Media where people will be held accountable for what they write.

Ok, we've been over that now a few times. The fact that the poster was red carded for saying that about rape shows it's not acceptable anyway, which kind of lends support to the theory that rape isn't acceptable. So, where is rape and its customs and traditions acceptable?

anewme · 29-09-2019 10:49am

Omackeral wrote: »

anewme wrote: »

If you dont know the poster in question, then you cannot say whether or not they are telling the truth or taking the piss.

If someone says they are going to commit suicide, you take them at face value and act accordingly. If someone threats against anyones personal safety against you, you take them at face value and act accordingly. So if someone says they love raping, then they could well mean it. It's not your place to make assumptions. You also don’t know how the public would take that statement.

Calling that deluded or dangerous says more about you.

I'm not sure why you say I'm clinging to one point...I specifically commented on that aspect of this thread. That comments like that are inflammatory and add nothing to the discussion.

Laws will change in relation to Social Media where people will be held accountable for what they write.

Ok, we've been over that now a few times. The fact that the poster was red carded for saying that about rape shows it's not acceptable anyway, which kind of lends support to the theory that rape isn't acceptable. So, where is rape and its customs and traditions acceptable?

No no Omerackeral, lets be fair here. You are the person who questioned my integrity by saying:

"I hope you just trained and aren't trusted to advise or educate on these matters because your attitude is frankly deluded at best and dangerous at worst. "

I am trained in dealing with and following up on what is written. I have assisted people in very dangerous situations by doing this, so I take exception to your comments.

I’ve asked you three times now, what exactly did I write in this thread that is dangerous and deluded?

I commented on the post in question and not beyond that.

I dont want to take the thread off kilter, but you have made some serious allegations about my integrity and professionalism which I'm now asking you to justify and stand over.

cloudatlas · 29-09-2019 11:51am

Calhoun wrote: »

Well then as i said we really are trying to undermine the severity of the act in and of itself by trying to nail on every possible slight on women equating to it.

I can understand if a person committed the act and those comments were used to describe the victim. In that case we agree that is rape culture but if a person calls another loose in one form of the other i don't think its the same thing. Especially calling someone a bitch that doesn't make sense at all.

Rape is severe but what the people who coined the phrase are saying is that’s the apex of societal norms that promote a culture that allows dehumanising of women, normalising women as ‘others’ weak sluts who are only playthings for men. The woman in the article was used by the two men as a plaything not as a person, she was dehumanised, how did the guys who raped her get to the point where in their heads they formulated the decision to do what they did to another person. I know this is a stretch for you but it wasn’t because they were surrounded by respect for women. Reports of sexual assaults in the London Underground have gone up. Are all these men mentally ill outliers and rapists, not necessarily but they feel entitled to touch someone inappropriately without consent where does that ‘right’ come from? Please answer that. This isn’t a ‘debate’. Bleating about a term coined in the 1970’s that isn’t going to go away. It doesn’t matter what the term is you’d complain anyway if it was ‘a culture of misogyny’ ‘toxic masculinity’ no term would be to your liking and we’d always be stuck on ‘debating’ language and terms rather than debating why these things happen. But if we got to why it’s always that person was disturbed or mentally ill or sure it’s okay to say ‘sluts’ or sure she just had her leg and arse felt up in a club while she was ordering a drink it’s normal and doesn’t feed into and is not fed by any thing else because anything I do like grabbing a woman I’ve had no interaction with or calling women a slut is normal but those other guys are mentally ill.

By the way the term ‘loose’ is out of date and antiquated. What you’re talking about is ‘sex positive’ behaviour, but if you aren’t sex positive or afraid then it’s ‘loose’.

Also I don’t appreciate the censorship of language here by all the guys who are triggered snowflakes on this thread, reminds me of the gay marriage referendum where the use of The word homophobe was being censored by the conservatives who didn’t like their behaviour being named.

Danzy · 29-09-2019 12:15pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

these are kids we're talking about, lets not get too nuanced. Keep the narrative simple. One sided and simple.

Problem is that the activist left will have a very large Influence on the curriculum.

The same loopers who would have been Jesuits years ago, bringing the same mess in the end.

Silentcorner · 29-09-2019 12:26pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Well anyone can be sexually assaulted. But it would be stupid to teach that a woman can rape a man because the law in Ireland doesn’t currently cognise the concept of a woman raping a man.

I’d have thought domestic violence would arise. If you want it to be a blame game, then I think you might be very disappointed. Why would you want it to be a blame game ?

I’d say it domestic abuse would arise but why would you want specifically to highlight “female sexual manipulation”? Why not just discuss the concept of manipulation and controlling behaviours in relationships?

Children don’t have all the hang ups you carry. I wouldn’t be inclined to pass your hang ups to them.

I’d make it fairly gender neutral and explain the concepts. I’d also support changing the rape law in Ireland to reflect the shared responsibility of consent.

If anyone can be assaulted, then why would it be stupid to teach kids than anyone can be assaulted, male or female, if the law doesn't recognize that women are capable of sexual assault doesn't mean it is right.

Female sexual manipulation, whilst an uncomfortable topic, does affect people albeit a tiny minority, just like the tiny minority of women who will be subjected to rape, or the tiny minority of men who will be falsely accused of rape.

I don't want anything to be a blame game, the likes of you do...it is your hang ups that are the problem, you're inability to recognize that both genders have toxic elements....what is wrong with teaching kids how toxic behaviours of both genders will or can impact both men and women, gay or straight!

Reviews and Books Galore · 29-09-2019 12:27pm

Hmmmm, consent sounds good at practice but it shouldn't be about female belittlement. e.g. If a woman has had a few pints she can't consent, but a man can.

Also, I am uncomfortable about showing young men that they're sexuality is something to be afraid of and animalistic, or portraying young female sexuality as having links to rape. It seems disturbing that the first exposure to sex that a young man will have will be tied to a violent crime. and, you know, it might suprise some people but a man can be more than just a potential rapist.

Also, I wonder what the effect this will have on male suicides if such an integral part of someone's personality is being tied into rape and shamed in the worst way that is possible? But, carry on. That doesn't really matter.

Reviews and Books Galore · 29-09-2019 12:31pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Well anyone can be sexually assaulted. But it would be stupid to teach that a woman can rape a man because the law in Ireland doesn’t currently cognise the concept of a woman raping a man.

I’d have thought domestic violence would arise. If you want it to be a blame game, then I think you might be very disappointed. Why would you want it to be a blame game ?

I’d say it domestic abuse would arise but why would you want specifically to highlight “female sexual manipulation”? Why not just discuss the concept of manipulation and controlling behaviours in relationships?

Children don’t have all the hang ups you carry. I wouldn’t be inclined to pass your hang ups to them.

I’d make it fairly gender neutral and explain the concepts. I’d also support changing the rape law in Ireland to reflect the shared responsibility of consent.

...I don't really like qouting you, but the bolded part is pretty strange and morally absent.

El_Duderino 09 · 29-09-2019 12:50pm

Danzy wrote: »

Problem is that the activist left will have a very large Influence on the curriculum.

The same loopers who would have been Jesuits years ago, bringing the same mess in the end.

And instead of any men’s groups giving any input, the men who pretend to be interested will wait until it’s too late and complain about the outcome.

El_Duderino 09 · 29-09-2019 12:52pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

...I don't really like qouting you, but the bolded part is pretty strange and morally absent.

Glad you could overcome your aversion.

It’s just the law currently. I stated my preference at the end of the post you quoted.

El_Duderino 09 · 29-09-2019 12:59pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

...
It seems disturbing that the first exposure to sex that a young man will have will be tied to a violent crime. and, you know, it might suprise some people but a man can be more than just a potential rapist.

Also, I wonder what the effect this will have on male suicides if such an integral part of someone's personality is being tied into rape and shamed in the worst way that is possible? But, carry on. That doesn't really matter.

Lol. Consent isn’t about rape. It’s about ensuring a positive experience for the people involved. And making sure they are in control over what they do.

I can see why you’re worried if you’re focused on rape and men being rapists. If to focus on that stuff ( which your post is exclusive focused on) then you’d get what you’re most afraid of.

Veritas Libertas · 29-09-2019 1:06pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

And instead of any men’s groups giving any input, the men who pretend to be interested will wait until it’s too late and complain about the outcome.

I'm sure they would happily give input if asked. The problem is since the #metoo era men have been told their opinion is no longer welcome by feminists.

Do you know the type of unfair stigma attached to men's groups?
Here is Jess Phillips laughing her ass off at the concept of discussing men's issues in the UK parliament.

It is quite hilarious while at the same time as espousing love, diversity and inclusion, these types will happily demonize men at the slightest opportunity.

alastair · 29-09-2019 1:15pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Lol. Consent isn’t about rape. It’s about ensuring a positive experience for the people involved. And making sure they are in control over what they do.

I can see why you’re worried if you’re focused on rape and men being rapists. If to focus on that stuff ( which your post is exclusive focused on) then you’d get what you’re most afraid of.

The law here defines non-consensual sex as rape. So clearly consent is absolutely about rape, along with all the other attributes of being a decent considerate person.

“Ireland has a rape culture”

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