The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

Christy42 · 16-10-2019 11:06am

It does seem weird. It does make the defense very good. Even with Talib on IR.

Still Goff seems very much like a QB who takes what his team mates give him. With a better oline and Gurley at full I think he looks great again and takes full advantage (damning with faint praise but this is a rare enough skill against NFL defenses). Without that Goff won't drag them out of trouble like the top QBs, indeed he seems to suffer more than most.

Optimus Caesar · 16-10-2019 11:24am

I think you’re right about Goff Christy.
With a functional O Line and a good running game he is more than fine and he can be very productive in that. But take that away and he cannot handle pressure.
Gurley is the bigger issue and IMO he’ll be cut in offseason if this is what he is going to be now. They are paying him too much for that.

thomond2006 · 16-10-2019 11:30am

Optimus Caesar wrote: »

I think you’re right about Goff Christy.
With a functional O Line and a good running game he is more than fine and he can be very productive in that. But take that away and he cannot handle pressure.
Gurley is the bigger issue and IMO he’ll be cut in offseason if this is what he is going to be now. They are paying him too much for that.

Gurley's guarantees lock him in for 2020.

Optimus Caesar · 16-10-2019 11:36am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Gurley's guarantees lock him in for 2020.

How much would it cost them to cut him?
Given how little they used him before the quad injury and his production with what touches he did get, he’s massively overpaid.
Don’t get me wrong, what he had done since he came in to the league earned that contract but the business of the NFL demands that the Rams take a look at it if he’s now going to be a 10-15 touches guy going forward.

boccy23 · 16-10-2019 12:07pm

Is there a worse DC than Steve Spagnuolo.

If you take away his first two seasons with the Giants ('07 & '08) in coaching stints either as DC or HC with the Rams, Saints, Giants and now the Chiefs, he has a top half of the league rated defence once - the '16 Giants which finished at 10.

Other than his team rank as follows:
29
19
22
32
32
31
31

And now with the Chiefs, they are currently ranked at 27.

Why is he still getting a chance and he has killed the chances of so many teams - currently the Patrick Mahomes Chiefs.

The last two weeks have proven that the Chiefs run D is awful (30th). So run the ball and keep Mahomes off the field. Just 20 mins possession for them last week.

cosatron · 16-10-2019 12:14pm

boccy23 wrote: »

Is there a worse DC than Steve Spagnuolo.

If you take away his first two seasons with the Giants ('07 & '08) in coaching stints either as DC or HC with the Rams, Saints, Giants and now the Chiefs, he has a top half of the league rated defence once - the '16 Giants which finished at 10.

Other than his team rank as follows:
29
19
22
32
32
31
31

And now with the Chiefs, they are currently ranked at 27.

Why is he still getting a chance and he has killed the chances of so many teams - currently the Patrick Mahomes Chiefs.

The last two weeks have proven that the Chiefs run D is awful (30th). So run the ball and keep Mahomes off the field. Just 20 mins possession for them last week.

I think letting go Houston and dee ford is having a bigger impact on the defence, Houston was the heartbeat of that defence and he is still only 30.

Knex* · 16-10-2019 12:16pm

He also seemingly gets picked to coach teams with little talent on defense. So whether he is a scapegoat of sorts, or a man who can help mask some of the inefficiencies with his complex scheme, I don't know.

When he has talent, you could argue that he seems to do fine? Definitely a weird one though, as he has some of the worst defenses of all time under his name.

The Chiefs had a bad defense last year and they let two big players walk, as cosatron said above, so not sure it's a great situation for any coordinator.

boccy23 · 16-10-2019 12:32pm

cosatron wrote: »

I think letting go Houston and dee ford is having a bigger impact on the defence, Houston was the heartbeat of that defence and he is still only 30.

I'm not arguing about the situation per say, but why does he keep getting these chances? Are there not any other DCs or potential DCs wither in the HFL or college. There are loads of HCs and OCs brought from college but none of the D side of the ball.

He reminds me of a nicer(?) version of Rex Ryan.

cosatron · 16-10-2019 2:17pm

boccy23 wrote: »

I'm not arguing about the situation per say, but why does he keep getting these chances? Are there not any other DCs or potential DCs wither in the HFL or college. There are loads of HCs and OCs brought from college but none of the D side of the ball.

He reminds me of a nicer(?) version of Rex Ryan.

there does seem to be a lack of young defensive coaches in the league and any prominent dc seems to always get a head coaching job at some stage and when it doesn't work out they return to dc and this also applies to college football.

Foxtrol · 16-10-2019 6:17pm

Christy42 wrote: »

It does seem weird. It does make the defense very good. Even with Talib on IR.

Still Goff seems very much like a QB who takes what his team mates give him. With a better oline and Gurley at full I think he looks great again and takes full advantage (damning with faint praise but this is a rare enough skill against NFL defenses). Without that Goff won't drag them out of trouble like the top QBs, indeed he seems to suffer more than most.

Problem is that unless they get lucky they now aren't going to be able to improve their OL through FA or the draft to give Goff that support. They are improving in an area where they didn't really have a huge issue, while ignoring areas they did.

An interesting comment I saw was that Ramsey isn't going to be of huge benefit when it comes to in division rivals. None of the other teams in the NFC West have a clear #1 receiver that they focus their offense through. Obviously Rams probably have bigger fish to target in a hopeful Super Bowl run but they have to make it to the playoffs first.

The_Honeybadger · 16-10-2019 7:17pm

They will do well to make it out of the division with San Fran and Seattle in there. Not sure I like this signing either but good luck to them.

Jolly Red Giant · 16-10-2019 10:13pm

I see Brock Osweiler has retired - taking his $41.3million in career earnings with him.

phatkev · 16-10-2019 10:15pm

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I see Brock Osweiler has retired - taking his $41.3million in career earnings with him.

Not bad going for 7 odd years!

Tell me how · 16-10-2019 10:18pm

phatkev wrote: »

Not bad going for 7 odd years!

Not bad going for 697 completed passes.
Just under 60K for every successful pass.

Xavi6 · 17-10-2019 1:16am

boccy23 wrote: »

I'm not arguing about the situation per say, but why does he keep getting these chances? Are there not any other DCs or potential DCs wither in the HFL or college. There are loads of HCs and OCs brought from college but none of the D side of the ball.

He reminds me of a nicer(?) version of Rex Ryan.

He got the gig because he's Andy Reid's mate from their Philly days, lots of Chiefs fans were very unimpressed with the appointment and they're being proved right. Run the ball, keep Patrick Mahomes off the field, profit.

Chris Jones, Eric Fisher, Sammy Watkins and Kendall Fuller are all out for the trip to Denver while Mahomes hobbles around on a bad ankle behind a bad o-line. The Chiefs don't tend to do primetime games well so could easily be 4-3 tomorrow night when Phillip Lindsay rushes for 150+ yards, not good after all the hype.

MileHighGuy · 17-10-2019 9:09am

What's extremely strange about the Ramsey trade.... there is no contract extension agreed upon. Ramsey has them over a barrel when the negotiation comes up. What are they going to do in 18 months time? Release him? After giving up the opportunity to draft 2 top tier players on team friendly contracts to get him?

The Rams sputtered through the playoffs last year, (offensively) ground to a halt in the Super Bowl, and have not recovered. Goff contract looks like it will be an albatross around their neck for years to come. It wouldn't surprise me if they tried to trade him in the offseason. Is the drop off from him to Bortles so big? $36m v $1m in salary and could net them some badly needed draft capital.

Shedite27 · 17-10-2019 9:24am

MileHighGuy wrote: »

What's extremely strange about the Ramsey trade.... there is no contract extension agreed upon. Ramsey has them over a barrel when the negotiation comes up. What are they going to do in 18 months time? Release him? After giving up the opportunity to draft 2 top tier players on team friendly contracts to get him?

I can't believe any team or GM would be that stupid to let that happen. Presumably they've something in the workings behind the scenes. I've read it a few places now, for every analyst and fan to spot the problem, and the Rams to have missed it? Doesn't seem likely.

The_Honeybadger · 17-10-2019 9:25am

MileHighGuy wrote: »

What's extremely strange about the Ramsey trade.... there is no contract extension agreed upon. Ramsey has them over a barrel when the negotiation comes up. What are they going to do in 18 months time? Release him? After giving up the opportunity to draft 2 top tier players on team friendly contracts to get him?

The Rams sputtered through the playoffs last year, (offensively) ground to a halt in the Super Bowl, and have not recovered. Goff contract looks like it will be an albatross around their neck for years to come. It wouldn't surprise me if they tried to trade him in the offseason. Is the drop off from him to Bortles so big? $36m v $1m in salary and could net them some badly needed draft capital.

Ramsey will be the highest paid CB in football before the start of next season, a deal in principal may already be worked out but for details. Move makes no sense otherwise. Rams are really rolling the dice here going with a very top heavy roster. The Gurley and Goff contracts look bad as others have said and they may lose solid guys like Littleton as a result.

It doesn’t look like a sustainable way to build a roster to me. It’s going to be fun watching how it unfolds though.

MileHighGuy · 17-10-2019 9:33am

Shedite27 wrote: »

I can't believe any team or GM would be that stupid to let that happen. Presumably they've something in the workings behind the scenes. I've read it a few places now, for every analyst and fan to spot the problem, and the Rams to have missed it? Doesn't seem likely.

Agreed, you would have to *think* they have something in principal, and certainly it will be the richest contract on a per year basis for a CB, but what else....there's guaranteed money he can demand, a fully guaranteed contract, he can dictate the terms that's for sure.

MileHighGuy · 17-10-2019 9:43am

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I see Brock Osweiler has retired - taking his $41.3million in career earnings with him.

Some fond memories of Brock from 2015... he was able to complete some great throws every now and again....check out this 50 yard bomb, right into the receivers hands.

https://twitter.com/thecheckdown/status/1184580835179220992

Foxtrol · 17-10-2019 3:33pm

Shedite27 wrote: »

I can't believe any team or GM would be that stupid to let that happen. Presumably they've something in the workings behind the scenes. I've read it a few places now, for every analyst and fan to spot the problem, and the Rams to have missed it? Doesn't seem likely.

Same issue was raised with the trade for Tunsil and didn't agree a deal in advance and the Texans didn't get the same benefit of the doubt (possibly understandable given their FO chaos).

Trusting either a team or player to live up to a verbal agreement is an incredibly stupid move. It is easy for Ramsey to say now that he'll accept a certain amount now but things might change after a few games and he sees an extra nearly 20% come out of his pay due to California taxes compared to when he was with the Jags. Presumably they'd hope that future increased endorsements would negate it but its a different thing when you look at your pay cheque and see the difference.

jack presley · 19-10-2019 9:35pm

As said in the article, with on-side kicks so hard to execute these days with the new rules, it's a wonder why more teams don't just drill the ball at an opponent and hope for the best.

https://deadspin.com/ohio-recovers-onside-kick-booted-off-opposing-receivers-1839193091

Tell me how · 19-10-2019 10:55pm

jack presley wrote: »

As said in the article, with on-side kicks so hard to execute these days with the new rules, it's a wonder why more teams don't just drill the ball at an opponent and hope for the best.

Haven't read article but I often wondered why they don't sky the ball to land 15 yards away. Receiving team could aim to call fair catch but crowding the area around them may put them off their game and have them fumble.

Christy42 · 19-10-2019 11:44pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Haven't read article but I often wondered why they don't sky the ball to land 15 yards away. Receiving team could aim to call fair catch but crowding the area around them may put them off their game and have them fumble.

Wasn't the Ravens who tried a Rugby style restart to try and do it?

BonnieSituation · 20-10-2019 9:47pm

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I see Brock Osweiler has retired - taking his $41.3million in career earnings with him.

As a fellow broncos fan; never forget him somehow getting us through peytons issues. Hope he enjoys every penny and his ring.

Jolly Red Giant · 21-10-2019 12:29am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

As a fellow broncos fan; never forget him somehow getting us through peytons issues. Hope he enjoys every penny and his ring.

Broncos wouldn't have won the Super Bowl without him.

Jolly Red Giant · 21-10-2019 12:31am

Rumours that the Broncos are going the trade Sanders - to the Patriots. Broncos apparently looking for a 3rd rounder.

Knex* · 21-10-2019 9:01am

Can't see them getting that, certainly not from Bill.

Somewhere between a 4th and a 5th seems more likely.

eagle eye · 21-10-2019 10:24am

I'd be surprised to see the Patriots go after a WR. N'Keal Harry should be back in week 9 to add to a decent depth chart. I'd never rule anything out with Bill but TE seems the position on offense that we are struggling a bit with. Sanders would be a nice addition though, type of player who would flourish in the Patriots offense.

Foxtrol · 21-10-2019 2:01pm

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Rumours that the Broncos are going the trade Sanders - to the Patriots. Broncos apparently looking for a 3rd rounder.

Wouldn't be overly surprised if the 49ers were in for him. Shanahan has said in the past how highly he rates him and none of the WRs have stood out this season, though that could be partially due to how games have fallen and trying to hide the OL injuries.

With already being down their 2nd round pick for Ford I doubt they'd give a 3rd for him. They also have 2 WRs to come back off IR.

Jolly Red Giant · 21-10-2019 2:49pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Wouldn't be overly surprised if the 49ers were in for him. Shanahan has said in the past how highly he rates him and none of the WRs have stood out this season, though that could be partially due to how games have fallen and trying to hide the OL injuries.

With already being down their 2nd round pick for Ford I doubt they'd give a 3rd for him. They also have 2 WRs to come back off IR.

49ers, Packers and Saints have all made inquiries - apparently - but Pats appear to be the front runners at the moment.

Harris and Wolfe also on the trade block - and suggestions that Miller could be moved at the end of the season. Expect to see Lock starting by week 11 - they need to see if he is any good.

Broncos - finally - in full rebuild.

Foxtrol · 21-10-2019 3:02pm

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

49ers, Packers and Saints have all made inquiries - apparently - but Pats appear to be the front runners at the moment.

Harris and Wolfe also on the trade block - and suggestions that Miller could be moved at the end of the season. Expect to see Lock starting by week 11 - they need to see if he is any good.

Broncos - finally - in full rebuild.

I know we've gone back and forth on Elway before but trusting him on a full rebuild is a terrible idea. If you're trading away your senior players for picks you want the right person in as GM for the long haul. It is too late to pull the plug after all those picks are wasted.

eagle eye · 21-10-2019 3:22pm

Jolly Red Giant wrote:

Expect to see Lock starting by week 11 - they need to see if he is any good.

No point putting him in with that offensive line. Way to ruin any chance of him working out.

raze_them_all_ · 21-10-2019 4:57pm

Packers would be an interesting landing spot for him if I'm being honest.

LuckyGent88 · 22-10-2019 12:09pm

Another trade: Falcons are sending WR Mohamed Sanu to the New England Patriots in exchange for a second-round pick, league sources tell ESPN.

That’s a very good pick up. Quite a productive receiver with good hands

VillaMad · 22-10-2019 12:09pm

The Patriots do indeed trade for a WR.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1186599521796677632

el Fenomeno · 22-10-2019 12:24pm

2nd round pick seems very expensive, even if it's around the 60 - 64 spot

Blut2 · 22-10-2019 1:11pm

el Fenomeno wrote: »

2nd round pick seems very expensive, even if it's around the 60 - 64 spot

At 7-0 and possibly Brady's last season (yeah yeah, I know, every season is) they're probably just going full on WIN NOW mode.

BaronVon · 22-10-2019 1:18pm

Good article on the importance of managing your cap space, and not overpaying every veteran player who's half decent.

......the Falcons top 5 cap hits will consume 50.6% of the cap.....
.....the Falcons top 10 cap hits consume a shocking 73.6% of the cap......

If the salary cap is $200 million, the Falcons have $51 million, or just 25.5% of the cap, to spend on the 43 other roster spots. That’s just $1.19 million or 0.59% of the cap per player to invest.

The team currently has just 40 players under contract AND they’re already projected to be over by $18.3 million when factoring in draft picks!

https://overthecap.com/the-atlanta-falcons-bleak-outlook-in-2020/

Knex* · 22-10-2019 1:55pm

VillaMad wrote: »

The Patriots do indeed trade for a WR.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1186599521796677632

Wow, that's nuts.

I take back what I said about Pats not being willing to trade a 3rd for Sanders. A 2nd for Sanu?

Jaysus, that's a lot.

hots · 22-10-2019 1:56pm

Knex. wrote: »

Wow, that's nuts.

I take back what I said about Pats not being willing to trade a 3rd for Sanders. A 2nd for Sanu?

Jaysus, that's a lot.

I like Sanu but it's a hefty price, their WR crew aren't bad already...

Foxtrol · 22-10-2019 2:05pm

Calling at least 1 trick play for Sanu to throw the ball downfield before the end of the season.

GM Bill really does make some strange roster moves but Coach Bill nearly always bails him out.

eagle eye · 22-10-2019 2:27pm

We are clearly going for the perfect season if we are giving up a second rounder like that. Belichick would not give up a second rounder very easily. If it's not about going for the perfect season then I've a feeling Gordon might be out for a while with this pickup.
Like I'm looking at the Patriots situation as regards receivers and it's quite good without adding Sanu. We have Edelman, Gordon, Dorsett, Meyers who has looked really good and N'Keal Harry in a couple of weeks, then you've got James White and Burkhead and Bolden has been excellent of late too as a receiver. Ben Watson looked good last night too.
Only reason I can see for this is an attempt for the perfect season. We have enough depth already to challenge for the Superbowl imo.

hots · 22-10-2019 3:29pm

eagle eye wrote: »

We are clearly going for the perfect season if we are giving up a second rounder like that. Belichick would not give up a second rounder very easily. If it's not about going for the perfect season then I've a feeling Gordon might be out for a while with this pickup.
Like I'm looking at the Patriots situation as regards receivers and it's quite good without adding Sanu. We have Edelman, Gordon, Dorsett, Meyers who has looked really good and N'Keal Harry in a couple of weeks, then you've got James White and Burkhead and Bolden has been excellent of late too as a receiver. Ben Watson looked good last night too.
Only reason I can see for this is an attempt for the perfect season. We have enough depth already to challenge for the Superbowl imo.

I would say it's about making WR from being a good WR corps to being a strong point of the team. Also means each WR should be able to play to their strengths a bit more.

Meyers and Watson looked strong last night, but that may have been because they were playing against the worst CB crew in the league

Christy42 · 22-10-2019 3:44pm

eagle eye wrote: »

We are clearly going for the perfect season if we are giving up a second rounder like that. Belichick would not give up a second rounder very easily. If it's not about going for the perfect season then I've a feeling Gordon might be out for a while with this pickup.
Like I'm looking at the Patriots situation as regards receivers and it's quite good without adding Sanu. We have Edelman, Gordon, Dorsett, Meyers who has looked really good and N'Keal Harry in a couple of weeks, then you've got James White and Burkhead and Bolden has been excellent of late too as a receiver. Ben Watson looked good last night too.
Only reason I can see for this is an attempt for the perfect season. We have enough depth already to challenge for the Superbowl imo.

May as well make sure of the Superbowl is the thinking I think. A perfect season will always be secondary to that (though your schedule lends itself to one).

Brady will only get so many shots at it (I know, people call for his demise every year but they will eventually be right). Sanu will help a lot more over the next two seasons than a second round pick.

Sanu is an excellent receiver to have. Overshadowed by two great ones in Atlanta admittedly. Myers and Dorsett are fine, they allow Brady to be great. Remember Brady was shut down in Buffalo. Maybe a bad day at the office but Sanu should help even on those days and I don't think Belicheck wants to risk that happening vs a team like the Ravens in the postseason.

Also allows them to take some knocks.

The_Honeybadger · 22-10-2019 5:35pm

Sanu is a fine player who has been overshadowed by Jones. That’s a good signing for the Pats. It’s a little bit expensive on the face of it but if he pushes them over the top for another SB then the price doesn’t matter.

D9Male · 22-10-2019 5:44pm

Sanu for a second. On the face of it, that's a crazy price for a 30yo WR who is only under contract for a year and a half. But I can completely see why the Patriots are doing it as they are in a tight SB window at the moment and now's the time to harvest Super Bowls so that their record will never be beaten. They are fairly thin at WR and Sanu is rock solid in the sense that he rarely misses a game and he has always had okay production even when he has been behind Green and Jones.

So I get it for the Patriots. But for the Falcons, it is a great deal. They're going nowhere fast. It clears some of their cap hell next year and they're looking into a rebuild next year and this is exactly what the doctor ordered.

Foxtrol · 22-10-2019 6:04pm

It might not be intended (though you never know with Bill) but it also messes up the market a bit for rivals looking to strengthen at WR. If they're getting a 2nd for Sanu I presume it will raise the Broncos expectations.

The_Honeybadger · 22-10-2019 6:14pm

BaronVon wrote: »

Good article on the importance of managing your cap space, and not overpaying every veteran player who's half decent.

https://overthecap.com/the-atlanta-falcons-bleak-outlook-in-2020/

Jesus that’s mental. And all their big earners are locked in with huge cap implications if they are cut / traded.

I thought the Steelers were bad with nearly $50m ties up in players that are either gone or on IR but at least there is an end in sight to that.

thomond2006 · 22-10-2019 7:56pm

Broncos send Emmanuel Sanders and 2020 5th.
49ers send 2020 3rd and 4th.

The 49ers should be delighted with that deal. The 4th and 5th picks will be close on the board so it's really a 3rd and change.

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

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