Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

Grassey wrote: »

From FB:

Progress on Blueway

* Update on Barrow Blueway*
Good news.

Report:
Trailway - Works to the trailway are progressing well through two Waterways Ireland (WI) direct labour crews. Crew no 1 started at Ballyteague South and have approximately 1.5 km complete to 804 level, Crew No 2 started just past Milltown
Bridge and similarly have approximately 1.5 km complete to 804 level. Once the 2 crews meet in the middle at approximately 5.5 km total, WI will complete the 5.5 km length with quarry dust. Waterways Ireland will continue to work on the trailway until
November this year and will recommence in February 2021. Some of the issues we have encountered on the trailway are in relation to existing entrances and the right to access – including the right to move livestock. Waterways Ireland legal team are addressing these issues. Other issues are in relation to poor ground conditions, where there is a necessity to excavate further and stabilise with additional stone.

The SPPR Team procured the services of an Ecological Clerk of Works for independent oversight of all works to the Barrow Blueway as required by the Planning Permission and are working well with Waterways Ireland to ensure all works are carried out in compliance with Environmental Conditions and in compliance with
current legislation.

Road Crossing/Junction Improvements, Car Parking Urgrade and Associates Signage: The SPPR Team are currently running a tender on etenders for the detailed design and procurement of a Works Contractor for all road crossings and junction improvements, including all associated signage, this was due to close on 16/09/2020, but a 3 week extension has been requested, moving closing date for tender returns to 7/10/2020. It is envisaged this work will go to site Spring 2021.

Bridge Design: The SPPR Team are currently working on a tender for bridge design and procurement of Works Contractor and hope to be in a position to upload to etenders by the end of September 2020.

Once we have a detailed design on roads crossings, junction improvements and bridge design, these can be shared for information purposes only.
The SPPR team propose to update KCC website on a biweekly basis, providing an update to the public as to how the works are progressing.

Indeed it's good news but there's something lost in translation there, Ballyteague is close to Robertstown and Milltown Bridge is close to Athy so there's closer to 40km between them than 5.5Km. I think what they mean is that as each section (roughly 5.5km) is done the quarrydust layer will be put down and that section opened, at least that's what I'm hoping



I would have thought that issues with access and livestock would have been sorted as part of the planning process, not as they arise during construction? Maybe that's just down to landowners making sure what they were promised is done?

DLRCC looking to link up 2 Greenways via segregated routes

Three new quick-build cycle route to help children cycle to school are planned by Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council across its area, the council has said today.



The council describes the routes as follows:

“The Sea to Mountains route will link east to west across the County. Starting at Blackrock Dart Station, crossing the N11 to Deerpark. It will then continue south linking to the Sandyford Cycle Route and Kilmacud Luas Stop and on to the Slang River Greenway and Wicklow Way.”
“The Park to Park route will link north to south across the county. Starting at the coast at Blackrock Dart Station then joining to the existing pathways in Rockfield Park. From there it will continue south along Deansgrange Road linking to the Loughlinstown to Deansgrange Greenway and ending by linking south to the coast.“
”The Mountains to Metals route will link east west across the county. Starting at the Sandyford Cycle Route, linking to the Sea to Mountains Route, the route also links up to the Park to Park route, north through residential areas and new developments and on to the Metals.

https://dlrcoco.citizenspace.com/infrastructure-climate-change/dlr-safe-walking-cycling-routes-consultation/

Looking for feedback on it

Sam Russell wrote: »

The bridge across the Barrow could be achieved by a rail bridge and a nearby pedestrian/cycle bridge which could be quite low cost as it carries little to no weight.

it would have to be an opening bridge though, which would add substantially to the cost.

daniel_t1409 wrote: »

There was an article in the wexford people this week(sorry no link) that the wexford greenway could not run alongside the railway, it had to be on the railway which means lifting of the track.
I'm not sure but I presume that this is because of the barrow bridge crossing not being wide enough to accommodate a track and a cycleway?

Wexford County Council ruled out the side by side option due to the €49 million + VAT price tag.
It either follows the railway or it isn't going to happen.
Which would be a shame for the people and businesses in South Wexford.
I feel they'd benefit a lot more out of a greenway than an unused railway line.

daniel_t1409 wrote: »

The line is a connection from Waterford to Rosslare, Wexford, Enniscorthy etc. It serves those towns. It was never meant to serve just south wexford, it just happened to pass through that area. The reason no one used the line was because of a poor timetable which was useful to nobody and didn't match up with ferries or other trains. The line has the potential, it's just the political will is not there. rant over

Would be much better to have the greenway going from waterford to wexford via New Ross.

What sort of a service would you run to link Waterford to Wexford and Enniscorthy? It would have to go into Rosslare Strand and driver change ends, it would take ages and would not be an attractive service at all. There would be little or no commuter potential given the limitations of the single track and Dublin services take priority. You might get day trippers but nothing like enough to justify the cost of providing the service. Any potential that there is could be served by bus, no doubt a superior service at less cost. It is far from just the political will that is not there.

Going via New Ross would require significant stretches on road and would be far less attractive than the former rail line.

Del.Monte wrote: »

What's your beef with railways? The South Wexford line was built as part of a trunk railway main line and the few rural stations on the remaining section are an irrelevancy trotted out by those in the anti-rail lobby. The trunk route formerly ran to Cork via Mallow and these days what could be developed as important route runs to Limerick Junction and onwards to Limerick and Galway. It's not about reopening the railway for a poxy two piece dmu pottering between Rosslare and Waterford all day long.

I don't have any beef with railways but I recognise the reality that railways are expensive to maintain and operate and that buses provide a suitable (and often superior) service for a fraction of the cost. Spending hundreds of millions of euros reinstating rural railways to then subsidise each passenger journey to the tune of several hundred euro is not a good use of taxpayers money. Naming our cities/bigger towns which have rail links means nothing. Its not like simply reopening the south Wexford line is suddenly going to open up journeys all over the country, it would be connecting into a predominantly single track network with many limitations and restrictions. And the connection between Waterford, Limerick and Galway is already there, there really is nothing to be gained from adding in a few villages in Wexford apart from significant operating loses.

Thankfully we have a viable alternative use for these former railways in the form of greenways which have much lower construction and operating costs, can be delivered quickly and return many benefits. Refusing greenways (including the unjustifiably more expensive alongside option) because of fantasies of rail returning will only result in former trackbed remaining unused for decades which nobody benefits from (yet there are those who seem to want to fight tooth and nail for that).

riddlinrussell wrote: »

make sure IE have a clause in any works contract saying that they will do a passenger/freight demand study every 5 years and if it meets a certain threshold then the railway gets reinstated, maybe with works including adding a greenway alongside the route.

Agree with this, although I would think that there's no maybe about it. Once a Greenway goes in, it will stay in - popular demand will require it, so an alongside will have to be done.

Grassey wrote: »

DLRCC looking to link up 2 Greenways via segregated routes

https://dlrcoco.citizenspace.com/infrastructure-climate-change/dlr-safe-walking-cycling-routes-consultation/

Looking for feedback on it

Had some texts forwarded to me regarding this, typical hysteria 'OMG, we will lose all access to Mount Merrion Ave', 'Traffic Chaos everywhere', 'Won't be able to get to the shops' etc

If you are in anyway supportive of any of these proposed routes can you submit something as part of the Council consultation. It's be nice to balance out the feedback with something constructive.

purplepanda wrote: »

The €35 million cost of the Greenway should be spent on upgrading the Railway.

Where are you getting this figure from?

There are other options in place to provide Cycling routes including an alternative route to New Ross from Wexford via Macmine on the old railway line...

How much would this route cost to run separated cycling facilities along it?

...
& some cycling routes are already in place such as the Wexford Trails Eurovelo route 1 connecting the Wexford south coastal villages & resorts, perhaps this project should be invested in properly.

You'd be talking about upgrading 120km of road way, to provide separated cycle tracks alongside the road.
I'm guessing that will cost a lot more than the €12 million that's estimated for using the old railway line.

The argument appears to be this: "The railway should not be converted to a greenway. Instead we should spend money on rail."
I find this a bit frustrating.

As far as I can see, nobody on this thread has any problem with spending money on rail or restoring the disused railways whatsoever. Many of us have explicitly stated that we're in favour of it. But there is little investment in rail right infrastructure right now and large numbers of rail projects remain unfunded. The idea of disused lines being reopened seems optimistic. IÉ don't want to reopen these railways. The government don't want to fund them.

There is money available for greenways and people are actively opposing them.

It feels like we're leaving the "perfect" prevent the "good". If there's a prospect of any line returning to active use in the short or medium term then any talk of a greenway is obviously a bad idea. I don't think anyone will argue otherwise.

But saying "we shouldn't convert to a greenway: we should spend money on rail" seems to be a pretty textbook straw man argument?

riddlinrussell wrote: »

This would be my thinking also, I am 100% behind the idea of rail, but given how badly the active use rail infrastructure in Ireland currently needs upgrading I won't hold my breath for Rosslaire to Waterford getting priority for some time....

You fail to grasp the true situation i.e. CIE have been trying to get rid of the Waterford/Rosslare line for decades and they won't be seeking any investment for it - they want rid of it.

The South Wexford line is not "nationally important", any importance it had went with the sugar beet industry. Look at the list of stations on the line (Killinick, Bridgetown, Duncormick, Wellingtonbridge, Ballycullane and Campile), between them the population is tiny. The two trains a day which did operate the line were at times to suit commuting to Waterford and that couldn't attract enough passengers to justify the cost of a barebones service. The only other potential passengers during the day were day trippers, and they could only be small numbers given the small population in the catchment area. Adding more services (which would undoubtedly be near empty) would have only increased the losses on the line. There's a reason why IE don't want the line.

The idea that there is/was a market for trains from Wicklow or North Wexford to Waterford on a magical mystery tour via Rosslare and Bridgetown is laughable. The road upgrades in the region make the train journey about 50% longer in distance and likely at a lower average speed. The earlier article states "The journey time of 1hr and 20 minutes was very competitive at the time when compared to road journeys and would still be competitive today". Road journey from Rosslare Strand to Waterford would be an hour, from Wexford town, Enniscourty or Gorey the road journey is the same or less, while from these towns the train journey only gets longer due to still having to go to RS.

Investing in the line to make it competitive would still see the same issues of lack of population along the line and circuitous route for journeys not starting on the line itself. Talk of booking tickets online or the like are red herrings, the fundamentals are completely wrong for a viable rail service. The demand for train services from Wexford is going north towards Dublin, this is where investment should be focused. Spending significant money so trains can rattle through tiny villages while there are other parts of the network crying out for investment is madness. There are so many other projects that could improve services on routes with far greater populations. The calls for investment into the south Wexford line are based on a fetish for trains alone, taxpayers money shouldn't and won't be thrown into such a blackhole.

The article linked previously even talked about reducing emissions, running diesel trains along this line would see a significant net increase in emissions as there would little or no reduction in car journeys to offset everything spewed out by the train. If sustainability or the environment was a concern, bus services would be the focus as they offer multiple routes which people may actual want to travel, lower emissions, faster and more frequent services and be available now rather than in several decades time.

The south Wexford line has the potential to add to the wonderful Dungarvan to Waterford Greenway. The viaducts and Dunbrody Abbey would be great features/attractions to have along the greenway which would only be viewed for a minute from a train. JFK Arboretum, Tintern Abbey and Johnstown Castle could be tied in with a few short spurs. A 100km greenway from Dungarvan to Rosslare would be a genuinely top quality asset for the country, and the south east in particular. It would bring far more benefits at lower cost than a train service passing an insignificant population.

The Wexford Eurovelo 1 Route is just signs on roads. On-road cycle routes are no comparison to greenway and shouldn't be talked about as an alternative. The line east of New Ross is all but gone (ironically the route via New Ross would be far better for a train service as it at least passes a town with a notable population and is a more direct journey from Wicklow/North Wexford), even what isolated stretches remain can't be stitched together easily without buying land. These aren't viable alternatives for a greenway on the rail line.