Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

So it's okay to wreck an unspoilt wilderness - with an existing footpath - by turning it into a greenway to provide access for the one crazed wheelchair user/buggie pusher that may wish to use it once in a lifetime. PC gone mad but we are where we are. :rolleyes:

Ah here, Del. I've known you for years. Even with the most liberal of baiting regulations, that crosses a line. You'd need more than eye roll to soften that one. Must be the auld election madness creeping in.

Del.Monte

Del.Monte wrote: »

So it's okay to wreck an unspoilt wilderness - with an existing footpath - by turning it into a greenway to provide access for the one crazed wheelchair user/buggie pusher that may wish to use it once in a lifetime. PC gone mad but we are where we are. :rolleyes:

Channelling your inner Peter Casey?

Del.Monte

Above, artist's impression of the ghastly, sanitised greenway that the proponents wish to inflict on an unspoilt wilderness plus two pics from Google showing the existing path.

My point about wheelchairs and buggies is that in the unlikely event that somebody in either category would want to visit the area it would be to the beach say at Greystones, Kilcoole, Newcastle and Wicklow rather than traversing the entire route.

As for cyclists, just because somebody invented the bicycle doesn't mean that everywhere in the country has to be adapted to suit them. If people want exercise why not walk the route as people have done for generations? The people pushing the greenway see it as a way of preventing coastal erosion but it seems to me that most of the recent erosion has been caused by CIE at one end at Wicklow UDC at the other. Indiscriminate use of rock armour causes more problems than it solves and just moves the problem along the coast.

In conclusion, leaving aside environmental concerns, the majority of the route is far too narrow to accommodate the proposed greenway.

Earlier thread on problems of erosion at Wicklow here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=98235627

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

Above, artist's impression of the ghastly, sanitised greenway that the proponents wish to inflict on an unspoilt wilderness plus two pics from Google showing the existing path.

My point about wheelchairs and buggies is that in the unlikely event that somebody in either category would want to visit the area it would be to the beach say at Greystones, Kilcoole, Newcastle and Wicklow rather than traversing the entire route.

As for cyclists, just because somebody invented the bicycle doesn't mean that everywhere in the country has to be adapted to suit them. If people want exercise why not walk the route as people have done for generations? The people pushing the greenway see it as a way of preventing coastal erosion but it seems to me that most of the recent erosion has been caused by CIE at one end at Wicklow UDC at the other. Indiscriminate use of rock armour causes more problems than it solves and just moves the problem along the coast.

In conclusion, leaving aside environmental concerns, the majority of the route is far too narrow to accommodate the proposed greenway.

Earlier thread on problems of erosion at Wicklow here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=98235627

Lovely train.

loyatemu

that's an (terrible) artists impression, it's unlikely to look like that. Currently only at consultation phase, no decisions on route, layout, path surface etc have been made.

Del.Monte

Del.Monte wrote: »

Above, artist's impression of the ghastly, sanitised greenway that the proponents wish to inflict on an unspoilt wilderness plus two pics from Google showing the existing path

Unspoilt wilderness? With a beach open to all, train line and existing path?

Del.Monte

Deleted User wrote: »

Unspoilt wilderness? With a beach open to all, train line and existing path?

You sound like you haven't been there?

MJohnston

I guess we should let the train line sink into the sea instead, returning to its natural environment.

Del.Monte

Del.Monte wrote: »

You sound like you haven't been there?

Would any answer either way make a difference to your anti-greenway/walker/cyclist/disabled/young family, stance?

Del.Monte

Deleted User wrote: »

Would any answer either way make a difference to your anti-greenway/walker/cyclist/disabled/young family, stance?

Answer a question with another question - good man.

Del.Monte

MJohnston wrote: »

I guess we should let the train line sink into the sea instead, returning to its natural environment.

The train line is nothing to do with the proposed greenway and has been tacked on to the proposal to garner more support. I have been travelling up and down that line for going on 50 years now and it's in no more danger of sinking into the sea than it was back in the 1960s.

The only bad spot is at the Wicklow town end where the Council (?) have made the situation worse by the use of rock armour. Rather than tourism type consultants they need to engage experts in coastal erosion - from outside the state - to examine the situation. I am not just keyboard warrioring about the situation and I have contacted various bodies - incl.Birdwatch Ireland, CIE and the OPW - in recent years, but cannot get to the heart of the matter.

MJohnston

Del.Monte wrote: »

I have been travelling up and down that line for going on 50 years now.

Hmmm, doesn't really sound anything like an unspoiled wilderness. But hey, I'm sure all those diesel fumes are just delightful for the local flora - unlike those awful, polluting wheelchairs.

L1011

Del.Monte wrote: »

Answer a question with another question - good man.

You answered a question with a question to begin with (post 1058)

bk

"unspoiled wilderness" with train tracks running right through there and all those one off houses in the background :rolleyes:

In my experience of regular use of the "Greenways" in Clontarf and Mahon in Cork. I'd pass loads of buggies every time I pass them and lots of small children on little balance bikes and scooters. And yes, I've past the odd wheelchair user.

As a person who does a lot of hiking in Wicklow, this sounds great and I've no doubt would attract a very large number of users.

Del.Monte

bk wrote: »

"unspoiled wilderness" with train tracks running right through there and all those one off houses in the background :rolleyes:

In my experience of regular use of the "Greenways" in Clontarf and Mahon in Cork. I'd pass loads of buggies every time I pass them and lots of small children on little balance bikes and scooters. And yes, I've past the odd wheelchair user.

As a person who does a lot of hiking in Wicklow, this sounds great and I've no doubt would attract a very large number of users.

Ah here, I can't take this sort of crap seriously, there's hardly a one-off house for miles and comparing urban greenways like Clontarf and Mahon with a remote stretch of coastline...
as for attracting a very large number of users - thanks for making my point for me! As for the railway track - there's 4/5 trains each way daily which doesn't have any affect on the peaceful nature of the place.

Del.Monte

L1011 wrote: »

You answered a question with a question to begin with (post 1058)

Are you for real? Poster made a statement that indicated that they didn't know the area and I asked did they.

Carawaystick

Del.Monte wrote: »

So it's okay to wreck an unspoilt wilderness - with an existing footpath - by turning it into a greenway to provide access for the one crazed wheelchair user/buggie pusher that may wish to use it once in a lifetime. PC gone mad but we are where we are. :rolleyes:

Its not an unspoilt wilderness.
Theres a train line the entire length from Wicklow to Greystones
Theres an airfield
The land is cultivated to the coast, you can see bales in google maps east of the railway at the north of the Morrough

I hope you never need to use a wheelchair and find out how restricted your life is and how selfish people wont give a sh1t about your difficulties.

Del.Monte

Carawaystick wrote: »

Its not an unspoilt wilderness.
Theres a train line the entire length from Wicklow to Greystones
Theres an airfield
The land is cultivated to the coast, you can see bales in google maps east of the railway at the north of the Morrough

I hope you never need to use a wheelchair and find out how restricted your life is and how selfish people wont give a sh1t about your difficulties.

Oh please, I have already covered the railway line - it is little used, and the land is NOT cultivated to the coast!! The bales that you can see north of Wicklow - to the east of the line - are done most years - although not last year - and are then left in the fields to rot - ask anybody who travels the line. Whether this is the Council or not I don't know. It is more grass cutting than any attempt at 'cultivation'.

As for the airfield - a private flying club - which I personally wouldn't have allowed but it it's not particularly intrusive.

As for my 'attitude' to wheelchair users - it is this: I don't believe that there's a demand to build a route between Greystones and Wicklow for the few such users who may want to traverse it. Give me examples of where there's been a demand for and take-up of such a facility.

bk

Del.Monte wrote: »

Ah here, I can't take this sort of crap seriously, there's hardly a one-off house for miles

ROFLOL

The pictures you show from Google Maps above, here is further up the road:



I'm seeing loads of houses, there is even a tennis court there! LOL, real Bear Grylls stuff there

And here is what it looks like from the ground:



Definitely an "unspoilt wilderness" there :rolleyes:

BTW All those boulders there are artificial too. There are erosion defences.

Don't get me wrong, I love Wicklow and you'll find me hiking there almost every weekend. But there is little wild or unspoilt about Wicklow. We unfortunately cut down our native forests that covered that area centuries ago and now it has been very much replaced by artificial farmers fields, roads, train tracks and lots of houses spread all over the place.

But it is what we have and it is pretty, so opening this up to people of all physical abilities is exactly the type of development we should be doing.

bk

Some more pics of the "unspoilt wilderness" This one is taking from the beach, exactly from where the pics you took are:



And here is an overview of the location. Your pics are from the area pinned on the right.



So I'm seeing Kilcoole town, an industrial estate, lots of farmers fields and Druids Glen golf club! Yeah, real unspoilt wilderness there.

So you are ok with lots of rich folks getting driven around a golf course. But not ok with the merest sliver of land being given over to a little footpath for parents and disabled people to enjoy!

BTW If you want an example of a rural Greenway with loads of buggies, small kids bikes and even wheelchairs, just go to Glendalough in your backyard any weekend. I know it isn't officially a "greenway", but I go there every few weeks and the paths around the lower lakes are always full with loads of young parents with buggies, etc.

I've no doubt, this path would attract the same people.

bk

I hadn't heard about this Greenway, the more I think about it, it actually sounds great. I'd definitely get the DART to Greystones and take my daughter to cycle on this Greenway. Would be great, very family friendly and nicely accessible from Dublin.

Zubeneschamali

Del.Monte wrote: »

As for the airfield - a private flying club - which I personally wouldn't have allowed but it it's not particularly intrusive. .

Fortunately nobody has to give two hoots what you personally would have allowed because you are not God Emperor of Wickla.

loyatemu

it's clearly not pristine wilderness, but in fairness to Del Monte the area beyond Kilcoole is fairly quiet and remote (and is a bird sanctuary). But I don't think the greenway will harm this - the artists impression makes it look like a suburban park, the end result will probably be fairly low-impact (once again, this is only a consultation, more detailed plans will emerge).

I've cycled on rural greenways here and in France and they can be designed to have very little impact on the surrounding environment, they are not roads.

Zubeneschamali

loyatemu wrote: »

I've cycled on rural greenways here and in France and they can be designed to have very little impact on the surrounding environment, they are not roads.

And we already have roads and railways everywhere a car or train might want to go. Like 10 yards from this greenway.



God forbid we do the same for crazed wheel chair users, or crazed babies in buggies I suppose.

Del.Monte

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Fortunately nobody has to give two hoots what you personally would have allowed because you are not God Emperor of Wickla.

In case you haven't realised it this is a discussion forum - people have different views - apologies that I have the cheek to have different ones to you. :rolleyes:

MJohnston

Del.Monte wrote: »

In case you haven't realised it this is a discussion forum - people have different views - apologies that I have the cheek to have different ones to you. :rolleyes:

Aye, it's not just them

Del.Monte

bk wrote: »

Some more pics of the "unspoilt wilderness" This one is taking from the beach, exactly from where the pics you took are:



And here is an overview of the location. Your pics are from the area pinned on the right.



So I'm seeing Kilcoole town, an industrial estate, lots of farmers fields and Druids Glen golf club! Yeah, real unspoilt wilderness there.

So you are ok with lots of rich folks getting driven around a golf course. But not ok with the merest sliver of land being given over to a little footpath for parents and disabled people to enjoy!

BTW If you want an example of a rural Greenway with loads of buggies, small kids bikes and even wheelchairs, just go to Glendalough in your backyard any weekend. I know it isn't officially a "greenway", but I go there every few weeks and the paths around the lower lakes are always full with loads of young parents with buggies, etc.

I've no doubt, this path would attract the same people.

I suggest that you visit the area before you make anymore of a fool of yourself. Your photographs speak volumes: the one with the hymac machine is a distorted wide-angle view at the Breaches bridge and is there to keep the channel to the sea open.

The one at Kilcoole station is a portent of what the whole greenway will look like with rock armour overwhelming the beach that you want people to come and enjoy.

The photograph of the road from Kilcoole village hasn't changed drastically down the years and while there are more houses there than formerly it has nothing to do with route of the greenway.

Lastly, what has the photograph of Kilcoole town, an industrial estate, lots of farmers fields and Druids Glen golf club got to do with anything? Why not take a photograph from Google showing Galway while you're at it?

Del.Monte

bk wrote: »

I hadn't heard about this Greenway, the more I think about it, it actually sounds great. I'd definitely get the DART to Greystones and take my daughter to cycle on this Greenway. Would be great, very family friendly and nicely accessible from Dublin.

You hadn't heard about it but with the use of Google you're now an expert the area. ROFL ROFL

Del.Monte

MJohnston wrote: »

Aye, it's not just them

Zubeneschamali

Del.Monte wrote: »

In case you haven't realised it this is a discussion forum - people have different views - apologies that I have the cheek to have different ones to you. :rolleyes:

Please, do keep expounding your views.


You help the case for a greenway every time!