Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

Muahahaha

Del.Monte wrote: »

So it's okay to wreck an unspoilt wilderness - with an existing footpath - by turning it into a greenway to provide access for the one crazed wheelchair user/buggie pusher that may wish to use it once in a lifetime. PC gone mad but we are where we are. :rolleyes:

I think thats a bit harsh on people in wheelchairs. Ireland is an awful place to be if you're in a wheelchair and many of them are virtual prisoners in their own homes. Infrastructure that changes that is only to be welcomed imo.

There is also an element with greenways of 'build it and they will come' too, things like this are not always demand driven but once the infrastructure is in place people who thought they would never use it do try it out, enjoy it and then continue to use it.

Sam Russell

Muahahaha wrote: »

There is also an element with greenways of 'build it and they will come' too, things like this are not always demand driven but once the infrastructure is in place people who thought they would never use it do try it out, enjoy it and then continue to use it.

That is the story of the Luas (a white elephant - will never be used - should be built on a different route - etc.) and will be the story of the Metrolink (a white elephant - will never be used - should be built on a different route - etc.) and is true of any good infrastructure.

What is the story of the Boardwalk along the Liffey in centre of Dublin?

Del.Monte

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is the story of the Luas (a white elephant - will never be used - should be built on a different route - etc.) and will be the story of the Metrolink (a white elephant - will never be used - should be built on a different route - etc.) and is true of any good infrastructure.

What is the story of the Boardwalk along the Liffey in centre of Dublin?

The Boardwalk is noted for drug dealing and scumbags or have I have left something out?

Sam Russell

Del.Monte wrote: »

The Boardwalk is noted for drug dealing and scumbags or have I have left something out?

Exactly, the Boardwalk is a bad piece of infrastructure that does not do what it was supposed it would do, and in fact, has made matters much worse and it must be either properly policed or removed.

Greenways have not suffered from this kind of result - in fact the opposite. They are examples of good infrastructure that far exceeds their (limited) objectives.

Del.Monte

Sam Russell wrote: »

Exactly, the Boardwalk is a bad piece of infrastructure that does not do what it was supposed it would do, and in fact, has made matters much worse and it must be either properly policed or removed.

Greenways have not suffered from this kind of result - in fact the opposite. They are examples of good infrastructure that far exceeds their (limited) objectives.

Yes, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the proposed Greystones/Wicklow greenway if that's what your post is concerned with?

MJohnston

Del.Monte wrote: »

Yes, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the proposed Greystones/Wicklow greenway if that's what your post is concerned with?

And your anti-wheelchair rants didn't really have anything to do with greenways either...

Del.Monte

MJohnston wrote: »

And your anti-wheelchair rants didn't really have anything to do with greenways either...

I am not anti-wheelchair - that's the spin put on what I said by pro- greenway posters here - and my point was that in the case of the East Coast Greenway the need to bulldoze a greenway wide enough etc. to accommodate wheelchairs and buggies was madness. I'm not anti-buggies either but even as a nature loving parent would never have considered pushing my children in a buggy from Greystones to Wicklow.

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

I'm not anti-buggies either but even as a nature loving parent would never have considered pushing my children in a buggy from Greystones to Wicklow.

It's not compulsory to walk the whole section, is it?

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

I am not anti-wheelchair - that's the spin

Anyway, to cheer you up, Del - the greenway championing Cllr on the WRC Claremorris-Athenry is struggling to retain a seat. A big set back for that campaign.

Muckyboots

Muckyboots wrote: »

Anyway, to cheer you up, Del - the greenway championing Cllr on the WRC Claremorris-Athenry is struggling to retain a seat. A big set back for that campaign.

Which one? There is a whole raft of candidates supporting it

Muckyboots

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Which one? There is a whole raft of candidates supporting it

Championing and supporting are two very different things. Maybe one of the supporters will step up to the mark.

Del.Monte

Muckyboots wrote: »

It's not compulsory to walk the whole section, is it?

My very point - made in a previous post - wheelchair users and buggie pushers are more like to visit beach areas on the proposed route (accessible by road) at Greystones, Kilcoole, Newcastle and Wicklow i.e. no need for a greenway designed for them.

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

My very point - made in a previous post - wheelchair users and buggie pushers are more like to visit beach areas on the proposed route (accessible by road) at Greystones, Kilcoole, Newcastle and Wicklow i.e. no need for a greenway designed for them.

Jesus, will you leave the wheelchair uses out of it !!!

Sam Russell

Del.Monte wrote: »

My very point - made in a previous post - wheelchair users and buggie pushers are more like to visit beach areas on the proposed route (accessible by road) at Greystones, Kilcoole, Newcastle and Wicklow i.e. no need for a greenway designed for them.

I think you are missing the point of the greenway - it is not a road to somewhere, it is the journey itself that matters. A family group does not use the greenway to get to the beach, it uses the greenway instead of going to the beach. It is the purpose of going on the greenway is to be out for a walk, and to appreciate the green and pleasant surroundings, and to meet other like-minded souls also out for a walk.

MJohnston

Del.Monte wrote: »

I am not anti-wheelchair - that's the spin put on what I said by pro- greenway posters here

Bullshiiiiiittttttt - you perfectly clearly stated that designing for accessibility is "PC gone mad". Now I'm prepared to accept that just makes you a complete idiot who didn't know what you were saying, but I suspect you very well did.

Del.Monte

MJohnston wrote: »

Bullshiiiiiittttttt - you perfectly clearly stated that designing for accessibility is "PC gone mad". Now I'm prepared to accept that just makes you a complete idiot who didn't know what you were saying, but I suspect you very well did.

And I stand over that statement. Designing everything in the country so that it is wheelchair/pram/buggy accessible is wasteful virtue signalling and, in the case of this greenway, environmentally destructive. I'm pretty damn sure that the money that would be spent on making this greenway suitable for all could be better spent applied directly to those areas which you profess concern.

The bottom line is that the Wicklow town crew behind this proposal have tacked on every 'possible' benefit to sell the idea when their primary concern is coastal erosion at Wicklow town.

MJohnston

Great, we get it — you don't think disabled people deserve the same access as everyone else. Good luck getting anyone to take your other "concerns" seriously!

spacetweek

Del.Monte wrote: »

Designing everything in the country so that it is wheelchair/pram/buggy accessible is wasteful virtue signalling

Absolutely ridiculous claim. Behave.

Muckyboots

Muckyboots wrote: »

Anyway, to cheer you up, Del - the greenway championing Cllr on the WRC Claremorris-Athenry is struggling to retain a seat. A big set back for that campaign.

Sorry- I blew a bubble up for you, Del, and now I have to burst it again.
A big shift in the balance of power on Galway CoCo. Surprise exclusion of a key rail advocate in Tuam and the not-surprising loss of Canney's man in the council. Two strong greenway advocates elected on greenway tickets in Connemara too. More 804 coming your way soon.;);)

Harry Palmr

Off topic slightly - who owns the Greenways? Is it always the local authority And is public liability insurance effectively provided by the state?

Sam Russell

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Off topic slightly - who owns the Greenways? Is it always the local authority And is public liability insurance effectively provided by the state?

I would think that if it is a disused railway line, CIE would retain ownership with the right to reopen the line if it was required and lease the land to the LA who would accept all liability. Now I could be corrected.

riddlinrussell

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would think that if it is a disused railway line, CIE would retain ownership with the right to reopen the line if it was required and lease the land to the LA who would accept all liability. Now I could be corrected.

I'd assume that would only be the case for the few more recently disused lines Sam, anything abandoned longer than say... 30 years ago is probably not going back into CIE control when upgraded.

There will be some piecemeal nature to a number of the routes Harry but in general any requiring Negotiated Purchase/CPO would likely fall to the ownership of the local councils (Not sure who would be responsible for segregated cycleways along National roads...).

Canal side greenways would almost universally fall under the ownership of Waterways Ireland (AFAIK). Not sure what their remit is for long disused canals like Kilbeggan branch and Ulster. I have to assume theres some hodgepodge framework of shared responsibility between them and the local council.

Lord Glentoran

riddlinrussell wrote: »

I'd assume that would only be the case for the few more recently disused lines Sam, anything abandoned longer than say... 30 years ago is probably not going back into CIE control when upgraded.

There will be some piecemeal nature to a number of the routes Harry but in general any requiring Negotiated Purchase/CPO would likely fall to the ownership of the local councils (Not sure who would be responsible for segregated cycleways along National roads...).

Canal side greenways would almost universally fall under the ownership of Waterways Ireland (AFAIK). Not sure what their remit is for long disused canals like Kilbeggan branch and Ulster. I have to assume theres some hodgepodge framework of shared responsibility between them and the local council.

So, what’s left of the Ulster Canal is the next target for the bike lobby? Hopefully Waterways Ireland will show some mettle on this.

A lot of support for the East Coast Greenway

http://wicklownews.net/2019/05/east-coast-greenway-petition-breaks-15000-signatures/

hans aus dtschl

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

So, what’s left of the Ulster Canal is the next target for the bike lobby? Hopefully Waterways Ireland will show some mettle on this.

I don't know the area at all but:
Who are the "bike lobby"? And why would Waterways Ireland want to "show some mettle" Is there a proposal to fill in the canal?

MJohnston

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I don't know the area at all but:
Who are the "bike lobby"? And why would Waterways Ireland want to "show some mettle" Is there a proposal to fill in the canal?

I'd recommend just ignoring these types of posts. They and a couple of others seem opposed to anything which encourages more sustainable tourism and transport, hiding behind a transparent facade of environmental concern.

riddlinrussell

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

So, what’s left of the Ulster Canal is the next target for the bike lobby? Hopefully Waterways Ireland will show some mettle on this.

Technically Monaghan County Council are WAY ahead of you here, they have greenway planned along its entire length and some short sections completed. I agree with you, Waterways Ireland need to step up to the plate and work with them to restore the canal to working order, hopefully the greenway will revive interest in it, its really the missing link in the current canal network.

Dats me

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Technically Monaghan County Council are WAY ahead of you here, they have greenway planned along its entire length and some short sections completed. I agree with you, Waterways Ireland need to step up to the plate and work with them to restore the canal to working order, hopefully the greenway will revive interest in it, its really the missing link in the current canal network.

Is the canal network actually used for anything?

Lord Glentoran

MJohnston wrote: »

I'd recommend just ignoring these types of posts. They and a couple of others seem opposed to anything which encourages more sustainable tourism and transport, hiding behind a transparent facade of environmental concern.

No just opposed to the “tarmac everything” mentality.

Lord Glentoran

Dats me wrote: »

Is the canal network actually used for anything?

Google Shannon-Erne Waterway for one example.