Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

Seth Brundle · 27-10-2020 6:22pm

Dats me wrote: »

It's kind of sad that we would all be bowled over if a minister stepped in and just allocated the funding through Irish Water for.thr project and gave the whole thing the green light

It's kind of sad that a small local infrastructure project that will significantly benefit active travelling commuters requires a national legislator to intervene.

riddlinrussell · 05-11-2020 11:09pm

Some updates from ministers

Ulster Canal Greenway

Darragh O'Brien wrote:

The Ulster Canal Greenway project will create 22km of new cross-border greenway between Smithborough and Middletown.

In 2016 the project was granted €4.95m through the INTERREG VA Sustainable Transport Measure. Joint implementation is being achieved through a Project Steering Group (PSG) comprising Waterways Ireland as Lead Partner and Monaghan County Council (MCC), Armagh City, Banbridge and Craigavon Borough Council (ABC), and East Border Region Ltd.

The development of the Ulster Canal Greenway is in line with commitments of the New Decade, New Approach and the Programme for Government on the development of greenways in border areas.

The Greenway project is made up of two stages:

Stage 1 is the section with the cross-border element - Monaghan town to Middletown with planning applications on both sides of the border due to be submitted in November 2020.

Stage 2 - Smithborough to Monaghan town – Plans are being progressed with planning approval expected to be in place by mid-2021.

In the latter part of 2021 preparation of tender documents for construction works will be commenced.

In 2022 the tender for construction will be finalised, tenders will be sought and the construction contract(s) will be awarded. The construction phase will commence and continue through to 2023. It is expected that the Greenway will be ready for use in mid-2023. Council staff will jointly develop and co-ordinate delivery of Community Engagement Programmes in each council area to promote use of the developed greenway.

Grand Canal Greenway and Royal-Grand Link in Lucan

Eamon Ryan wrote:

Last year funding was announced to support Kildare County Council’s development of the Greenway between Aylmer Bridge (near Celbridge) and Sallins. Budget 2021 has allocated additional funding to support walking and cycling and an additional €1.3m will be allocated to the Council next year which should see that particular section completed in 2021.

The section between Aylmer Bridge and the 12th Lock in Lucan will be considered in future funding calls, while the Deputy may wish to be aware that South Dublin County Council is separately being funded by the National Transport Authority to progress a link, commencing at the 12th Lock and continuing through Lucan, between the Grand and Royal Canals.

nilhg · 08-11-2020 3:49pm

I had a better look at the section of the barrow blueway under construction from Ballyteague to Glenaree, all the digging out is done and from Ballyteague to the viaduct both the rough base stone and 804 layers are complete, south of there there is only a short section to get its base layer and I'd imagine laying of the 804 will start shortly.

Having seen it I have to say it looks impressive, i can't wait for it to open up and progress south to continue.

riddlinrussell · 09-11-2020 10:52am

GOVERNMENT TO FULLY FUND GREENWAY PROJECTS DUE TO COVID-19 HIT TO COUNCILS

veryangryman · 09-11-2020 11:48am

Public Notice:
The government have announced €8,100,000 for the development of greenway by TII from Galway to Athlone. This is a 100% grant because of COVID-19, meaning that the local authorities will not have to match fund on this occasion. This is very welcome news and the Project will hopefully provide a very valuable resource for the community as well as those using it for touristic purposes, when done.
Information provided courtesy of Senator Aidan Davitt

riddlinrussell · 09-11-2020 12:02pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Public Notice:
The government have announced €8,100,000 for the development of greenway by TII from Galway to Athlone. This is a 100% grant because of COVID-19, meaning that the local authorities will not have to match fund on this occasion. This is very welcome news and the Project will hopefully provide a very valuable resource for the community as well as those using it for touristic purposes, when done.
Information provided courtesy of Senator Aidan Davitt

Given the amount provided I would expect a lot of that funding is the Bridge across the Shannon?

You won't get from Galway to Athlone for 8 million if its costing 10 to turn a disused railway from Midleton to Youghal into one.

Harry Palmr · 09-11-2020 1:02pm

More money for the south east Greenway network.

https://kclr96fm.com/e9-million-announced-for-south-kilkenny-greenway/

There’s another boost for the South Kilkenny Greenway with the announcement this morning of €9,000,000 in funding.

The investment in the route between Waterford & New Ross is part of a 63.5 million euro package confirmed by Ministers Eamon Ryan & Hildegarde Naughton.

It’s a joint venture between Kilkenny, Wexford & Waterford county councils.

Carlow Kilkenny Fine Gael TD John Paul Phelan says it’ll be “transformative for South Kilkenny & the general south east”.

Deputy Phelan also says “We all know the change the Waterford Greenway brought to areas like Kilmacthomas, Dungarvan, the entire Comeraghs region and smaller towns and villages along its route. The impact will be similar for South Kilkenny and I’m delighted to be able to confirm the investment”.

medoc · 09-11-2020 2:29pm

Money for the completion of the unfinished sections of Grand canal greenway joining the route to Lough Boora parklands to Edenderry. Also the bridge over the Shannon on the Dublin Galway greenway

https://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/home/587384/funding-confirmed-for-latest-stretch-of-offaly-greenway-project.html

https://www.midlands103.com/news/midlands-news/over-e12m-of-funding-allocated-to-midlands-greenways/

riddlinrussell · 10-11-2020 11:20am

There was a mistake in the government list of greenways funded, they are funding Kerry Border to Listowel in this round, not Listowel to Tralee

nilhg · 11-11-2020 2:45pm

nilhg wrote: »

I had a better look at the section of the barrow blueway under construction from Ballyteague to Glenaree, all the digging out is done and from Ballyteague to the viaduct both the rough base stone and 804 layers are complete, south of there there is only a short section to get its base layer and I'd imagine laying of the 804 will start shortly.

Having seen it I have to say it looks impressive, i can't wait for it to open up and progress south to continue.

http://www.kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/AllServices/Planning/PublicRealm/BarrowBlueway/

https://www.facebook.com/BarrowBluewayIreland/posts/674991383203097

From the FB post above

The group are focusing on pushing the Blueway concept and distinguishing it apart from a Greenway, the Blueway is based upon activation of trails, not only providing opportunities for cyclists and walkers but for paddlers also. The Blueway Experience will aim to support novice paddlers along with the experienced paddler through the provision of equipment and supervision. The packaging of experiences is of great importance and convenience for the consumer, so the Blueway initiative is grounded in not only building high quality visitor facilities, but equally in working with service providers to activate and bring the trails to life.

serfboard · 11-11-2020 4:41pm

The Blueway Experience will aim to support novice paddlers along with the experienced paddler through the provision of equipment and supervision.

Saw exactly that this Summer - a person renting and supervising kayaks - while stopping off in the hidden jewel that is St Mullins in Carlow.

marno21 · 12-11-2020 11:27am

South Kerry Greenway approved by An Bord Pleanala.

https://www.radiokerry.ie/south-kerry-greenway-granted-bord-pleanala/

This is absolutely fantastic news. It’s going to make a wonderful greenway and it cannot be emphasised enough how beneficial this will be for the locality.

keane2097 · 12-11-2020 11:43am

Hurray!

riddlinrussell · 12-11-2020 11:52am

marno21 wrote: »

South Kerry Greenway approved by An Bord Pleanala.

https://www.radiokerry.ie/south-kerry-greenway-granted-bord-pleanala/

This is absolutely fantastic news. It’s going to make a wonderful greenway and it cannot be emphasised enough how beneficial this will be for the locality.

Not just that, its a game changer for greenways in general as it sets a precedent that the CPO mechanism can be used to develop them. I'm not for riding roughshod over local landowners generally and think accommodations should be made if possible, but I also think its of no benefit for one or two stubborn holdouts to delay a project like this for 10 years. Hopefully the spectre of CPO hanging over a project makes people more amenable to a negotiation.

Tigerandahalf · 12-11-2020 1:29pm

Where will the Southern Greenway come out in Listowel?

Will it come out somewhere near the John B Keane roundabout as you go into the town or does it come out on the Duagh road near Kerry Co Op?

I presume they will want people to come through the town.

There is a monorail in Listowel that may really benefit from all the families passing through.
It was a very rare project taken on by the British engineers.
http://lartiguemonorail.com/

I would think kids would love a ride on the train. It would be a great stopping point along the way.

Sam Russell · 12-11-2020 2:40pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Where will the Southern Greenway come out in Listowel?

Will it come out somewhere near the John B Keane roundabout as you go into the town or does it come out on the Duagh road near Kerry Co Op?

I presume they will want people to come through the town.

There is a monorail in Listowel that may really benefit from all the families passing through.
It was a very rare project taken on by the British engineers.
http://lartiguemonorail.com/

I would think kids would love a ride on the train. It would be a great stopping point along the way.

Lartigue was French.

Quackster · 12-11-2020 3:45pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Where will the Southern Greenway come out in Listowel?

Will it come out somewhere near the John B Keane roundabout as you go into the town or does it come out on the Duagh road near Kerry Co Op?

I presume they will want people to come through the town.

There is a monorail in Listowel that may really benefit from all the families passing through.
It was a very rare project taken on by the British engineers.
http://lartiguemonorail.com/

I would think kids would love a ride on the train. It would be a great stopping point along the way.

Yeah, at the JBK Roundabout. The JBK road was built on the old rail line and will be upgraded as part of the Listowel Bypass.

The plan is indeed to then bring greenway traffic through the centre of town with upgraded footpaths and cycle lanes. The town centre will be a much more pleasant place on completion of the bypass in a few years.

Quackster · 12-11-2020 3:51pm

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Not just that, its a game changer for greenways in general as it sets a precedent that the CPO mechanism can be used to develop them. I'm not for riding roughshod over local landowners generally and think accommodations should be made if possible, but I also think its of no benefit for one or two stubborn holdouts to delay a project like this for 10 years. Hopefully the spectre of CPO hanging over a project makes people more amenable to a negotiation.

It's a near certainly that objectors will seek a judicial review which will delay things a few more years. But that delay will be nothing in the grand scheme of things and there is no shortage of other greenway projects to soak up all available funding in the meantime.

And having legal certainly on the CPO process will be of massive benefit to all future projects.

Del.Monte · 12-11-2020 3:55pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Lartigue was French.

I suspect the poster is referring to the builders of the replica.

https://www.lartiguemonorail.com/history.php

Markcheese · 13-11-2020 10:30am

https://www.radiokerry.ie/south-kerry-greenway-gets-go-ahead-subject-11-conditions/

Also on radio kerry several sections of the greenway have been omiited , ( I assume from planning ) , either for environmental or coastal protection reasons ..

Not sure what impact that'll have on the route way ?

Grassey · 14-11-2020 12:24am

https://www.balbriggan.info/permission-granted-harry-reynolds-road-pedestrian-cycle-route/

the 3km route will be funded by the National Transport Authority as part of Greater Dublin Area Cycle Network Plan and is an important element of the developing sustainable and active travel network in the town.

Linking a number of local schools and amenities and serving a large part of the local population, the NTA-funded scheme will also provide for a future link to the proposed Fingal Coastal Way greenway, for which route options public consultation will commence in the coming weeks also.

trellheim · 14-11-2020 11:19am

ABP Decision on the South Kerry Greenway http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/directions/302/S302450.pdf the omitted bits are omitted pending investigation

daniel_t1409 · 15-11-2020 6:26pm

BrianD3 wrote: »

A few years ago, I was looking at old bridges on Google street, there are huge amount of them around, many are partly distmantled or heavily overgrown. Many roadusers are likely completely unaware of the history as they drive over a hump in the road with flat fields to the left and right and no trace of the railway. Probably highly unlikely that these will ever be greenways..

Not necessarily, while it is more difficult to do greenways on these routes it still can be done, especially if the land is still in state ownership which in the case of the Bagenalstown/Palace line most of it is still CIE owned, which is actually being planned by Carlow CoCo.

riddlinrussell · 18-11-2020 12:36pm

South Dublin CC have announced a consultation on a heap of new cycleways
Cycle South Dublin Consultation

I have added all the proposals to the greenway map

spacetweek · 19-11-2020 10:17pm

Where does it actually show the cycle routes? Didn't see anything in that link.

riddlinrussell · 19-11-2020 10:56pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Where does it actually show the cycle routes? Didn't see anything in that link.

Somewhat confusing layout, the documentation is over on the right side of the page, under 'Materials'. Main consultation document is the very last one, second document is a map of the routes, rest are individual routes

Seth Brundle · 20-11-2020 1:35pm

https://twitter.com/NavanCycling/status/1329451609387118594

Pete_Cavan · 20-11-2020 3:11pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

https://twitter.com/NavanCycling/status/1329451609387118594

Just looked at the website and this is hilarious; the greenway is to have a new cycleway steel and timber bridge over the N52 but Meath CoCo want to build a new stretch of N52 about 50m south of that point, the new N52 will cross the greenway at grade! Cyclists expected to dismount and cross the National Road and then there is a bridge over the lightly trafficked local road! Public comments on N52 had to be in last week.

Details of N52 realignment here;

http://idocswebdpss.meathcoco.ie/iDocsWebDPSS/listFiles.aspx?catalog=planning&id=P820012

riddlinrussell · 20-11-2020 3:26pm

That is pure insanity!

daniel_t1409 · 20-11-2020 4:56pm

How about an underpass? :rolleyes:

Pete_Cavan · 20-11-2020 5:13pm

A bridge over the new N52 would be very easy, the former trackbed is already raised on one side where the former bridge crossed over the be to bypassed N52. All that would have to be done is build up the greenway at a suitable gradient on the other side and put in a simple bridge. Does anyone know which local Councilors would be any use to take up this issue before design is finalised?

riddlinrussell · 20-11-2020 5:15pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

A bridge over the new N52 would be very easy, the former trackbed is already raised on one side where the former bridge crossed over the be to bypassed N52. All that would have to be done is build up the greenway at a suitable gradient on the other side and put in a simple bridge. Does anyone know which local Councilors would be any use to take up this issue before design is finalised?

Seems Cllr Eugene Cassidy is the main driver at Council, at least according to the website. I've dropped him an email about it anyway.

daniel_t1409 · 20-11-2020 6:07pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

A bridge over the new N52 would be very easy, the former trackbed is already raised on one side where the former bridge crossed over the be to bypassed N52. All that would have to be done is build up the greenway at a suitable gradient on the other side and put in a simple bridge. Does anyone know which local Councilors would be any use to take up this issue before design is finalised?

Something like this?https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2027761,-7.4083266,3a,75y,239.99h,89.63t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNAtP6N8d38CsqszRlCTWsg!2e0!5s20170601T000000!7i13312!8i6656

pigtown · 21-11-2020 9:15am

Preliminary design work has gone out for tender for the Limerick to Scariff greenway.

It will link to the UL - Limerick city greenway across a restored Black Bridge which was damaged in floods almost a decade ago.

It will then run alongside the long abandoned Erina Canal, and then along publicly owned lands to Killaloe and north to Scariff. I assume it will run along the Shannon headrace for a section of it.

I can't see any obvious route from Killaloe to Scariff though.

Tigerandahalf · 22-11-2020 11:20am

Interesting idea here re running a greenway along a new motorway. Not sure if the noise of a motorway would appeal though.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40086260.html

Re that Scariff greenway. I was looking at google maps. I guess this could connect upto Lough Derg and a potential blueway route, kayak upto Portumna and you have the forest walk there plus it doesn't seem too far from Banagher where one of the Offaly greenways could link up.
Is there a walking route around Lough Derg already?

whisky_galore · 22-11-2020 2:41pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Interesting idea here re running a greenway along a new motorway. Not sure if the noise of a motorway would appeal though.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40086260.html

"Prominent Cork solicitor and environmental law expert floated the idea on social media"

"Expert" with no involvement in the project, no background in roads or civil eng, no clue how it can be accommodated sends a tweet.

loyatemu · 22-11-2020 3:32pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

"Prominent Cork solicitor and environmental law expert floated the idea on social media"

"Expert" with no involvement in the project, no background in roads or civil eng, no clue how it can be accommodated sends a tweet.

every idea has to start somewhere. I assume it wouldn't be right beside the motorway - I don't think it's a terrible idea.

Pete_Cavan · 22-11-2020 4:24pm

I'm pretty sure that an active travel alternative has to be provided with these projects now anyway. The preferable solution would be away from the new road although that is not always possible. Such a route should link up the towns along the way while the motorway avoids them. I don't know other options there are in this case, perhaps there are still some sections of the old railway north of Charleville, the state has a very large landholding at Doneraile.

22-11-2020 6:29pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Interesting idea here re running a greenway along a new motorway. Not sure if the noise of a motorway would appeal though.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40086260.html

Re that Scariff greenway. I was looking at google maps. I guess this could connect upto Lough Derg and a potential blueway route, kayak upto Portumna and you have the forest walk there plus it doesn't seem too far from Banagher where one of the Offaly greenways could link up.
Is there a walking route around Lough Derg already?

While I've no issue with the idea in principle, there's no way you could apply the term "greenway" to anything like that.

riddlinrussell · 22-11-2020 7:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

While I've no issue with the idea in principle, there's no way you could apply the term "greenway" to anything like that.

I've added the proposal to the map as the "C20" route, at present I just have it running alternately along side roads to the current N20 and along the current N20 where the planned Motorway diverges. I would hope this is the sort of thing that could be put in in most places as an M20 'Teaser' project, should take a lot less time to implement than the several years till the M20 is ready to go.

Various locations where it could use the old railway line etc, I'd say a firm route will have to wait until we have a specific plan for the M20 project

Del.Monte · 22-11-2020 8:00pm

Could they not put the proposed greenway along the trackbed of the former Charleville/Patrickswell railway line and thereby kill two birds with one stone?

riddlinrussell · 22-11-2020 8:03pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Could they not put the proposed greenway along the trackbed of the former Charleville/Patrickswell railway line and thereby kill two birds with one stone?

I'd say that's a likely option. Currently I kept to the N20(ish) as it remains to be seen what will happen with the M20 project regarding the rail options.

nilhg · 22-11-2020 11:21pm

Running a cyclelane next to a motorway isn't an unheard of idea, one I've seen myself is the Mandurah PSP which runs alongside the Kwinana freeway which runs from the south up int Perth in Western Australia.

It's easy to follow on google maps , some riding impressions and photos here

https://waytoomuchcoffee.com/microadventure/cycle-perth/100km-on-perth-bike-path/

Capt'n Midnight · 22-11-2020 11:43pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Interesting idea here re running a greenway along a new motorway. Not sure if the noise of a motorway would appeal though.

If you don't mind noise and no view.

The box sections of the M50 toll bridge are big enough to fit a DART in.

23-11-2020 2:28am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If you don't mind noise and no view.

True but your focusing on just one set of users.

For example, I live in a motorway connected town, 20ish km from the city where I work. There is no safe route to cycle it.

Given the option of a motorway cycle route or no route for the daily commute, I know which I'd prefer.

In all honesty I truly hope we end up with some kind of cycling infrastructure built soon either alongside an intercity rail line or a new/existing motorway. If not we'll doom the country to thinking every single cycle route outside the cities must be scenic greenways.

hans aus dtschl · 23-11-2020 9:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

True but your focusing on just one set of users.

For example, I live in a motorway connected town, 20ish km from the city where I work. There is no safe route to cycle it.

Given the option of a motorway cycle route or no route for the daily commute, I know which I'd prefer.

In all honesty I truly hope we end up with some kind of cycling infrastructure built soon either alongside an intercity rail line or a new/existing motorway. If not we'll doom the country to thinking every single cycle route outside the cities must be scenic greenways.

You're the same user type as me.
Meandering stop/start shared infrastructure won't work for end users like us: we want to get from A to B, and shared-space scenic greenways aren't an appropriate way to do that.

Also, for the record if there was a segregated route parallel to the M20, I'd probably use it.

riddlinrussell · 23-11-2020 10:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

True but your focusing on just one set of users.

For example, I live in a motorway connected town, 20ish km from the city where I work. There is no safe route to cycle it.

Given the option of a motorway cycle route or no route for the daily commute, I know which I'd prefer.

In all honesty I truly hope we end up with some kind of cycling infrastructure built soon either alongside an intercity rail line or a new/existing motorway. If not we'll doom the country to thinking every single cycle route outside the cities must be scenic greenways.

I'd be a strong advocate for it along the M20 route, hopefully if successful there it could be rolled out to other routes.

I'd say directly along the Motorway is fine where appropriate, but I'd say in many cases a safe route along 'the old road' is the optimum route for cyclists, connecting all the bypassed towns.

I'd say your maximum limit on 'common' cycle commuters is an hour/hour and a half (Roughly my own cycle commute) so you are looking at 25/30km on a good surface.

The old road is usually fairly direct, but I'd advocate for 'fastest route' that still serves all major towns, with minor routes off to smaller villages as appropriate.

daniel_t1409 · 23-11-2020 11:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

In all honesty I truly hope we end up with some kind of cycling infrastructure built soon either alongside an intercity rail line or a new/existing motorway. If not we'll doom the country to thinking every single cycle route outside the cities must be scenic greenways.

Yep - we need to focus on greenways/cycleways for commuting as opposed to tourism/leisure. There needs to be direct links from nearby towns to the cycleway. They also need to be more interconnected with other cycleways to create a network rather than one going nowhere just so tourists can see the scenery. We need to drop this 'scenic' obsession. Also we need to drop this carpark nonsense and instead have, like I said, direct links from nearby towns and villages. And promote them as commuting infrastructure.

Zubeneschamali · 23-11-2020 11:37am

An advantage of doing it as part of the M20 project is that the budget is massive and CPOs are normal.

The route does not have to be on top of the motorway.

riddlinrussell · 23-11-2020 11:57am

daniel_t1409 wrote: »

Yep - we need to focus on greenways/cycleways for commuting as opposed to tourism/leisure. There needs to be direct links from nearby towns to the cycleway. They also need to be more interconnected with other cycleways to create a network rather than one going nowhere just so tourists can see the scenery. We need to drop this 'scenic' obsession. Also we need to drop this carpark nonsense and instead have, like I said, direct links from nearby towns and villages. And promote them as commuting infrastructure.

In fairness, especially as many of them are on Canals/Rail routes the actual full route rarely 'goes nowhere', but I agree the sectional nature of them seems to be focussed on getting the pretty bits done first, sometimes with no thought at all for how you will continue the route from your nice fancy car-park.

I think a fair number of the 'core-routes' can be sold to people under the guise of Tourism, The Grand/Royal/Barrow/Ulster canals, various rail routes. These routes may have been developed at Tourist routes, but they still form a potential backbone for a true network. Once a major route is done the local area focus needs to be on the relatively small costs of linking into the 'trunk' route.

There are 5 or 6 major towns along the Royal Canal, but a number of short branch routes could massively increase the number of smaller towns and villages that can reach the route and therefore connect to larger towns and each other via the main greenway

Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

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