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Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

dowlingm

So there's been quite a bit of discussion of greenways on threads like Western Rail Corridor (Train & Rail Systems) and I was thinking it might be useful to have a thread which pulls together both technical discussion (for example how greenways can co-exist with adjacent roadways or railways) and news (expansions of existing greenways / announcements of new ones)

According to the Connaught Tribune there are moves on getting on Galway-Clifden along the old rail line alignment. Is there anything else starting to reach firm proposals as opposed to discussion?

MOD EDIT: Fantastic Greenway map of Ireland by riddlinrussell here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1HAHB3jpXV7qgrTHgopH4Zl7-ItDHGEPv&ll=53.4320326010536%2C-8.939188105408448&z=7

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Zubeneschamali

An advantage of doing it as part of the M20 project is that the budget is massive and CPOs are normal.

The route does not have to be on top of the motorway.

daniel_t1409

Deleted User wrote: »

In all honesty I truly hope we end up with some kind of cycling infrastructure built soon either alongside an intercity rail line or a new/existing motorway. If not we'll doom the country to thinking every single cycle route outside the cities must be scenic greenways.

Yep - we need to focus on greenways/cycleways for commuting as opposed to tourism/leisure. There needs to be direct links from nearby towns to the cycleway. They also need to be more interconnected with other cycleways to create a network rather than one going nowhere just so tourists can see the scenery. We need to drop this 'scenic' obsession. Also we need to drop this carpark nonsense and instead have, like I said, direct links from nearby towns and villages. And promote them as commuting infrastructure.

riddlinrussell

Deleted User wrote: »

True but your focusing on just one set of users.

For example, I live in a motorway connected town, 20ish km from the city where I work. There is no safe route to cycle it.

Given the option of a motorway cycle route or no route for the daily commute, I know which I'd prefer.

In all honesty I truly hope we end up with some kind of cycling infrastructure built soon either alongside an intercity rail line or a new/existing motorway. If not we'll doom the country to thinking every single cycle route outside the cities must be scenic greenways.

I'd be a strong advocate for it along the M20 route, hopefully if successful there it could be rolled out to other routes.

I'd say directly along the Motorway is fine where appropriate, but I'd say in many cases a safe route along 'the old road' is the optimum route for cyclists, connecting all the bypassed towns.

I'd say your maximum limit on 'common' cycle commuters is an hour/hour and a half (Roughly my own cycle commute) so you are looking at 25/30km on a good surface.

The old road is usually fairly direct, but I'd advocate for 'fastest route' that still serves all major towns, with minor routes off to smaller villages as appropriate.

hans aus dtschl

Deleted User wrote: »

True but your focusing on just one set of users.

For example, I live in a motorway connected town, 20ish km from the city where I work. There is no safe route to cycle it.

Given the option of a motorway cycle route or no route for the daily commute, I know which I'd prefer.

In all honesty I truly hope we end up with some kind of cycling infrastructure built soon either alongside an intercity rail line or a new/existing motorway. If not we'll doom the country to thinking every single cycle route outside the cities must be scenic greenways.

You're the same user type as me.
Meandering stop/start shared infrastructure won't work for end users like us: we want to get from A to B, and shared-space scenic greenways aren't an appropriate way to do that.

Also, for the record if there was a segregated route parallel to the M20, I'd probably use it.

[Deleted User]

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If you don't mind noise and no view.

True but your focusing on just one set of users.

For example, I live in a motorway connected town, 20ish km from the city where I work. There is no safe route to cycle it.

Given the option of a motorway cycle route or no route for the daily commute, I know which I'd prefer.

In all honesty I truly hope we end up with some kind of cycling infrastructure built soon either alongside an intercity rail line or a new/existing motorway. If not we'll doom the country to thinking every single cycle route outside the cities must be scenic greenways.

Capt'n Midnight

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Interesting idea here re running a greenway along a new motorway. Not sure if the noise of a motorway would appeal though.

If you don't mind noise and no view.

The box sections of the M50 toll bridge are big enough to fit a DART in.

nilhg

Running a cyclelane next to a motorway isn't an unheard of idea, one I've seen myself is the Mandurah PSP which runs alongside the Kwinana freeway which runs from the south up int Perth in Western Australia.

It's easy to follow on google maps , some riding impressions and photos here

https://waytoomuchcoffee.com/microadventure/cycle-perth/100km-on-perth-bike-path/

riddlinrussell

Del.Monte wrote: »

Could they not put the proposed greenway along the trackbed of the former Charleville/Patrickswell railway line and thereby kill two birds with one stone?

I'd say that's a likely option. Currently I kept to the N20(ish) as it remains to be seen what will happen with the M20 project regarding the rail options.

Del.Monte

Could they not put the proposed greenway along the trackbed of the former Charleville/Patrickswell railway line and thereby kill two birds with one stone?

riddlinrussell

Deleted User wrote: »

While I've no issue with the idea in principle, there's no way you could apply the term "greenway" to anything like that.

I've added the proposal to the map as the "C20" route, at present I just have it running alternately along side roads to the current N20 and along the current N20 where the planned Motorway diverges. I would hope this is the sort of thing that could be put in in most places as an M20 'Teaser' project, should take a lot less time to implement than the several years till the M20 is ready to go.

Various locations where it could use the old railway line etc, I'd say a firm route will have to wait until we have a specific plan for the M20 project

[Deleted User]

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Interesting idea here re running a greenway along a new motorway. Not sure if the noise of a motorway would appeal though.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40086260.html

Re that Scariff greenway. I was looking at google maps. I guess this could connect upto Lough Derg and a potential blueway route, kayak upto Portumna and you have the forest walk there plus it doesn't seem too far from Banagher where one of the Offaly greenways could link up.
Is there a walking route around Lough Derg already?

While I've no issue with the idea in principle, there's no way you could apply the term "greenway" to anything like that.

Pete_Cavan

I'm pretty sure that an active travel alternative has to be provided with these projects now anyway. The preferable solution would be away from the new road although that is not always possible. Such a route should link up the towns along the way while the motorway avoids them. I don't know other options there are in this case, perhaps there are still some sections of the old railway north of Charleville, the state has a very large landholding at Doneraile.

loyatemu

whisky_galore wrote: »

"Prominent Cork solicitor and environmental law expert floated the idea on social media"

"Expert" with no involvement in the project, no background in roads or civil eng, no clue how it can be accommodated sends a tweet.

every idea has to start somewhere. I assume it wouldn't be right beside the motorway - I don't think it's a terrible idea.

whisky_galore

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Interesting idea here re running a greenway along a new motorway. Not sure if the noise of a motorway would appeal though.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40086260.html

"Prominent Cork solicitor and environmental law expert floated the idea on social media"

"Expert" with no involvement in the project, no background in roads or civil eng, no clue how it can be accommodated sends a tweet.

Tigerandahalf

Interesting idea here re running a greenway along a new motorway. Not sure if the noise of a motorway would appeal though.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40086260.html

Re that Scariff greenway. I was looking at google maps. I guess this could connect upto Lough Derg and a potential blueway route, kayak upto Portumna and you have the forest walk there plus it doesn't seem too far from Banagher where one of the Offaly greenways could link up.
Is there a walking route around Lough Derg already?

pigtown

Preliminary design work has gone out for tender for the Limerick to Scariff greenway.

It will link to the UL - Limerick city greenway across a restored Black Bridge which was damaged in floods almost a decade ago.

It will then run alongside the long abandoned Erina Canal, and then along publicly owned lands to Killaloe and north to Scariff. I assume it will run along the Shannon headrace for a section of it.

I can't see any obvious route from Killaloe to Scariff though.

daniel_t1409

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

A bridge over the new N52 would be very easy, the former trackbed is already raised on one side where the former bridge crossed over the be to bypassed N52. All that would have to be done is build up the greenway at a suitable gradient on the other side and put in a simple bridge. Does anyone know which local Councilors would be any use to take up this issue before design is finalised?

Something like this?https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2027761,-7.4083266,3a,75y,239.99h,89.63t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNAtP6N8d38CsqszRlCTWsg!2e0!5s20170601T000000!7i13312!8i6656

riddlinrussell

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

A bridge over the new N52 would be very easy, the former trackbed is already raised on one side where the former bridge crossed over the be to bypassed N52. All that would have to be done is build up the greenway at a suitable gradient on the other side and put in a simple bridge. Does anyone know which local Councilors would be any use to take up this issue before design is finalised?

Seems Cllr Eugene Cassidy is the main driver at Council, at least according to the website. I've dropped him an email about it anyway.

Pete_Cavan

A bridge over the new N52 would be very easy, the former trackbed is already raised on one side where the former bridge crossed over the be to bypassed N52. All that would have to be done is build up the greenway at a suitable gradient on the other side and put in a simple bridge. Does anyone know which local Councilors would be any use to take up this issue before design is finalised?

daniel_t1409

How about an underpass? :rolleyes:

riddlinrussell

That is pure insanity!

Pete_Cavan

Seth Brundle wrote: »

https://twitter.com/NavanCycling/status/1329451609387118594

Just looked at the website and this is hilarious; the greenway is to have a new cycleway steel and timber bridge over the N52 but Meath CoCo want to build a new stretch of N52 about 50m south of that point, the new N52 will cross the greenway at grade! Cyclists expected to dismount and cross the National Road and then there is a bridge over the lightly trafficked local road! Public comments on N52 had to be in last week.

Details of N52 realignment here;

http://idocswebdpss.meathcoco.ie/iDocsWebDPSS/listFiles.aspx?catalog=planning&id=P820012

Seth Brundle

https://twitter.com/NavanCycling/status/1329451609387118594

riddlinrussell

spacetweek wrote: »

Where does it actually show the cycle routes? Didn't see anything in that link.

Somewhat confusing layout, the documentation is over on the right side of the page, under 'Materials'. Main consultation document is the very last one, second document is a map of the routes, rest are individual routes

spacetweek

Where does it actually show the cycle routes? Didn't see anything in that link.

riddlinrussell

South Dublin CC have announced a consultation on a heap of new cycleways
Cycle South Dublin Consultation

I have added all the proposals to the greenway map

daniel_t1409

BrianD3 wrote: »

A few years ago, I was looking at old bridges on Google street, there are huge amount of them around, many are partly distmantled or heavily overgrown. Many roadusers are likely completely unaware of the history as they drive over a hump in the road with flat fields to the left and right and no trace of the railway. Probably highly unlikely that these will ever be greenways..

Not necessarily, while it is more difficult to do greenways on these routes it still can be done, especially if the land is still in state ownership which in the case of the Bagenalstown/Palace line most of it is still CIE owned, which is actually being planned by Carlow CoCo.

trellheim

ABP Decision on the South Kerry Greenway http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/directions/302/S302450.pdf the omitted bits are omitted pending investigation

Grassey

https://www.balbriggan.info/permission-granted-harry-reynolds-road-pedestrian-cycle-route/

the 3km route will be funded by the National Transport Authority as part of Greater Dublin Area Cycle Network Plan and is an important element of the developing sustainable and active travel network in the town.

Linking a number of local schools and amenities and serving a large part of the local population, the NTA-funded scheme will also provide for a future link to the proposed Fingal Coastal Way greenway, for which route options public consultation will commence in the coming weeks also.

Markcheese

https://www.radiokerry.ie/south-kerry-greenway-gets-go-ahead-subject-11-conditions/

Also on radio kerry several sections of the greenway have been omiited , ( I assume from planning ) , either for environmental or coastal protection reasons ..

Not sure what impact that'll have on the route way ?