General MMA Chat/News mk3 - No Spoilers Use Event Threads

DrPhilG · 14-09-2018 1:15pm

Whelo79 wrote: »

Why not?

Because it would be watered down beyond recognition. Head guards, shin pads, bigger gloves, probably ban elbows etc.

It would be a turd of a spectacle.

BJJ on the other hand, go for it.

MrStuffins · 14-09-2018 1:18pm

Whelo79 wrote: »

While it might hurt the average UFC fan now (which is what I guess your are?) it benefits the sport in the long run which is where I see it from. I follow the amateur level here in Ireland, attend a lot of national events and I can see first hand the improvements over the last few years and the huge benefits legitimacy of the sport can have.

Good for you. And congrats on pulling the "I'm a bigger fan than you" card. I see your first post on the forum was in the Aldo v McGregor thread.

I've been attending local and international MMA events for over a decade. I know what the "long run" is because i've been watching from almost the beginning.

It doesn't diminish my point.

Whelo79 · 14-09-2018 1:20pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

Because it would be watered down beyond recognition. Head guards, shin pads, bigger gloves, probably ban elbows etc.

It would be a turd of a spectacle.

That's basically amatuer MMA, it goes on around the country every month. The World MMA championships take place in Bahrain next month and those fighters (from 30+ countries) will wear slightly bigger gloves and shin pads, certain submissions and elbow/forearm strikes are banned.

The Olympics are (in theory) for amateur athletes. Up until very recently amatuer boxers wore head gear and bigger gloves. They didn't bother Muhammed Ali, Roy Jones Jr. and all our Irish boxers who went to the Olympics and then turned pro. It's a fantastic way to learn and gain experience before going professional. And importantly I want brings government funding for clubs and fighters.

Whelo79 · 14-09-2018 1:27pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

Good for you. And congrats on pulling the "I'm a bigger fan than you" card. I see your first post on the forum was in the Aldo v McGregor thread.

I've been attending local and international MMA events for over a decade. I know what the "long run" is because i've been watching from almost the beginning.

It doesn't diminish my point.

I didn't pull any 'card'. I was mearly stating that I have seen progress from the grass roots up and appreciate the positive impact Olympic recognition would have on the sport as a whole. Banning drugs cheats is part and parcel of that. What Jones ban should be I don't know but as a second offense it should be longer than his first ban.

We all know there are MMA fans and UFC fans.

Whelo79 · 14-09-2018 1:29pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

And they have all received lengthy bans? Therefore so should Jon Jones yeah?

MrStuffins · 14-09-2018 1:41pm

Whelo79 wrote: »

We all know there are MMA fans and UFC fans.

On this forum there tends to be those who have been posting and discussing for a long time (many have gone, understandably) and those who have blown in on the McGregor Express. Let's not pretend you didn't just yet to play the "You're a casual and I'm not as I attend amateur events" card

Whelo79 wrote: »

And they have all received lengthy bans? Therefore so should Jon Jones yeah?

As I said, by all means have rules! Issue bans. But appropriate one s

Unless I'm mistaken, none of those guys have been banned for 4 years, which is what some were calling for here.

Let the man fight!

Tazzimus · 14-09-2018 1:45pm

If it was a first offence, maybe 4 years is a bit harsh.
This is not, however, his first.

Whelo79 · 14-09-2018 2:10pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

On this forum there tends to be those who have been posting and discussing for a long time (many have gone, understandably) and those who have blown in on the McGregor Express. Let's not pretend you didn't just yet to play the "You're a casual and I'm not as I attend amateur events" card

As I said, by all means have rules! Issue bans. But appropriate one s

Unless I'm mistaken, none of those guys have been banned for 4 years, which is what some were calling for here.

Let the man fight!

Yeah, absolutely McGregor piqued my interest in the sport. Prior to that I wouldn't even have classed myself a casual fan. I was very aware of the sport and had watched the original Ultimate Fighter series, seen the odd main event here or there and played the old game on the Dreamcast

It's the same way my interest in boxing rose significantly in the era of Collins, McCullough and Carruth, although I had been brought up on boxing as a kid watching Duran, Hearns, Hagler, etc. Is there supposed to be shame in that?

What I questioned was if you were a UFC fan or an MMA fan. I believe an MMA fan should want what's best for the sport in the long run, not just wants best for their tv viewing right now. I would consider myself far more than a casual MMA fan now, which is what your are trying to paint with the McGregor express comment. And as a fan of the sport I want to see it grow exponentially. So much so that my whole degree was based around MMA and as part of that degree I carried out a 6 month study involving some of the countries top professional and amatuer MMA fighters to examine their training and injury patterns in a hope of reducing injury occurrence and improving performances. I am moving on now to do my Msc and MMA will be the main focus of that too.

I don't want young lads to be looked down upon by friends, parents or strangers because they are taking part in MMA. Olympic recognition brings that legitimacy and respect, and if Jon Jones getting a 4 year ban (if that's what USADA rules state) helps even minutely in that, then so be it. He is the one who was stupid enough to get caught dopng (inadvertently or not) twice.

dulux99 · 14-09-2018 2:26pm

I really think this thing of “there are MMA fans and there are UFC fans” is nonsense. It becomes a pissing contest between who’s been to more obscure events and who has more street cred. It’s horsesh*t. If you’re into the sport you’re into the sport, it’s as simple as that. It’s natural for people to be more interested in the elite league in the sport. Just because you watched the World Cup and you don’t watch the league of Ireland doesn’t make you any less of a fan of the sport.

MrStuffins · 14-09-2018 2:29pm

Whelo79 wrote: »

What I questioned was if you were a UFC fan or an MMA fan. I believe an MMA fan should ........

Luckily for me, and others, you don't get to decide what an MMA fan is.

Do I believe Jones should be punished? Yes. Do I want to see him fight again? Yes.

Calling for a 4 year ban, when he's already 31, is a bit much for me.

ASOT · 14-09-2018 2:32pm

I don't want a 4 year ban either, part of me wants him back part of me wants some sort of ban. I'd love to see TRT Belfort back aslo. Belfot v Jones all out roids match.

Whelo79 · 14-09-2018 2:34pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

Luckily for me, and others, you don't get to decide what an MMA fan is.

Do I believe Jones should be punished? Yes. Do I want to see him fight again? Yes.

Calling for a 4 year ban, when he's already 31, is a bit much for me.

So leniency should be given, determined by your age, when it comes to being punished for cheating? I can't agree.

And of course I would like to see Jones fight again, as long as he is clean and not doping. He was a pleasure to watch in action. If his two violations are just for stupidity and taking contaminated supplements I feel bad for him. If he knowingly took them he is an idiot because I can't imagine he needed them. He could have went down as one of the greatest ever without doping.

Whelo79 · 14-09-2018 2:35pm

ASOT wrote: »

I don't want a 4 year ban either, part of me wants him back part of me wants some sort of ban. I'd love to see TRT Belfort back aslo. Belfot v Jones all out roids match.

I've no problem with that either. If someone creates an MMA promotion that allows steroid use, for whatever reason, so be it. Let them at it.

Tazzimus · 14-09-2018 2:44pm

Whelo79 wrote: »

I've no problem with that either. If someone creates an MMA promotion that allows steroid use, for whatever reason, so be it. Let them at it.

So Pride then

Reinstate Pride, put all the roiders in there and let them at it. Job done.

MrStuffins · 14-09-2018 2:45pm

Whelo79 wrote: »

So leniency should be given, determined by your age, when it comes to being punished for cheating? I can't agree.

No. That's not what i'm saying. I mentioned his age from a fan's point of view.

Some people want to revel in the fact that he's going to get banned and want him banned for a long time. An inappropriately long time.

How many MMA fighters have ever been banned for 4 years? Or more? Diaz is the only one I can think of and that was pure megalomania on the part of the commission.

Whelo79 · 14-09-2018 2:51pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

How many MMA fighters have ever been banned for 4 years? Or more?

How many fights have second offenses? The length of ban has to increase with each offense in my opinion. The length of ban needs to be long enough to act as a deterrent.

Like I said, I'd love to see him fight again but not to the detriment of the sports legitimacy. That's my humble opinion.

EagererBeaver · 14-09-2018 2:55pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

Whelo79 wrote: »

We all know there are MMA fans and UFC fans.

On this forum there tends to be those who have been posting and discussing for a long time (many have gone, understandably) and those who have blown in on the McGregor Express. Let's not pretend you didn't just yet to play the "You're a casual and I'm not as I attend amateur events" card

Whelo79 wrote: »

And they have all received lengthy bans? Therefore so should Jon Jones yeah?

As I said, by all means have rules! Issue bans. But appropriate one s

Unless I'm mistaken, none of those guys have been banned for 4 years, which is what some were calling for here.

Let the man fight!

You are mistaken. Gatlin was banned for four years for his second violation. He only got four years after arbitration resulted in an eight year ban being cut due to cooperation.

MrStuffins · 14-09-2018 2:55pm

Whelo79 wrote: »

How many fights have second offenses? The length of ban has to increase with each offense in my opinion. The length of ban needs to be long enough to act as a deterrent.

Like I said, I'd love to see him fight again but not to the detriment of the sports legitimacy. That's my humble opinion.

The ban should increase.......... do you think it should increase four-fold? What's wrong with an 18 month ban? Or a 2 year ban?

Subcomandante Marcos · 14-09-2018 2:59pm

Whelo79 wrote: »

And they have all received lengthy bans? Therefore so should Jon Jones yeah?

In fairness there should be red lines through Bolt's records too.

When you use a former BALCO chemist as one of your main trainers for years you automatically fair the sniff test.

Whelo79 · 14-09-2018 3:07pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

The ban should increase.......... do you think it should increase four-fold? What's wrong with an 18 month ban? Or a 2 year ban?

Absolutely. Like I said, it needs to be a deterrent. You need to know your career is basically over if you get caught.

18-24 months is nothing in the grand scheme of things. 2-4 fights maximum for some fighters.

Whelo79 · 14-09-2018 3:12pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

In fairness there should be red lines through Bolt's records too.

When you use a former BALCO chemist as one of your main trainers for years you automatically fair the sniff test.

I'm not 100% in agreement there. I agree there are doubts but they have done tests on Bolt and reckon he is a genetically predisposed to being freakishly quick when it comes to sprinting. Some abnormal ratio between achilles tendon and calf muscles (elongated achilles tendon I think). Similar to that of a cheetah.

Obviously top class training and attitude were vitally important in his development also.

Subcomandante Marcos · 14-09-2018 3:19pm

Whelo79 wrote: »

Obviously top class training and attitude were vitally important in his development also.

Direct quote from Bolt's "trainer" before he started "training" Bolt about the 100m finals in Beijing.

"the winner will not be clean. Not even any of the contestants will be clean. There is no doubt about it, the difference between 10.0 and 9.7 seconds is the drugs"

Mellor · 14-09-2018 3:26pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

If people want to cheer on administrators and corrupt officials, the same officials who effectively banned Nick Diaz for life for smoking weed, and rejoice when guys have their livelihoods taken away that's up to them.

These officials aren hardly corrupt for banning Diaz. It was his third failed drugs test, he got 18 months. After that banned, he had 3 whereabouts failures. And got 12 months. What where they supposed to do at that point. 12 months at 33 is not a lifetime ban.
You can say they weed shouldn't be on the banned list, and I'd agree with you. But the fact is, it is on the list. The testers dont control the list.

The Diaz bros don't care about the rules so can hardly complain when they get fined/suspended. Nate came out blatently vaping oil post fight (within the in-competition window). He luckily got a slap on the wrist.

0byme75341jo28 · 14-09-2018 6:21pm

Lads honestly are ye for real? The UFC is nothing without USADA. Either allow everyone use steroids or no one. If it's not an even playing field and doping offenders are allowed go unpunished then half the intrigue of a matchup is ruined. I have no interest in seeing DC-Jones III if Jones is left off the hook. He's a cheat, he should get punished. I don't care how good he is or how much of a draw he is. A cheat is a cheat and it's not acceptable in any sport, not to mind a high-risk one like MMA.

dulux99 · 14-09-2018 6:45pm

https://streamable.com/e9ffb

Wow, did not spot this the other night. "the card is not set, I know things you don't know, hold your breath"

If it is Jones, which it probably is, it does make a mockery of the whole USADA programme. If the UFC can just interject and fiddle with paperwork and get someone off the hook like this. Would anyone be in the least bit surprised though? I know I wouldn't.

Fromvert · 14-09-2018 7:31pm

When the current USADA contract is up I think the UFC will either not re-sign completely or some new deal will be introduced that isn't as strict as the current one. They test an absurd amount compared to most other sports. The testing comes out of the UFC's pocket and the UFC is losing out on potential money due to some of their top fighters getting shelved. The new owners are all about the money and the USADA testing is a money pit. And I for one look forward to it if I'm right.

Porthallian · 14-09-2018 7:53pm

dulux99 wrote: »

https://streamable.com/e9ffb

Wow, did not spot this the other night. "the card is not set, I know things you don't know, hold your breath"

If it is Jones, which it probably is, it does make a mockery of the whole USADA programme. If the UFC can just interject and fiddle with paperwork and get someone off the hook like this. Would anyone be in the least bit surprised though? I know I wouldn't.

At this stage it might aswell be Brock vs DC

dulux99 · 14-09-2018 7:58pm

Porthallian wrote: »

At this stage it might aswell be Brock vs DC

Could very well be.

Porthallian · 14-09-2018 8:02pm

An error on the UFC's website saw a women's strawweight title fight between Rose Namajunas and Joanna Jedrzejczyk briefly advertised as UFC 230's main event.

Definitely not happening a 3rd time.
Joanna vs Valentina a possibility though I'd guess for the vacant FlyW belt.

Dtp1979 · 14-09-2018 8:27pm

Whelo79 wrote: »

I've no problem with that either. If someone creates an MMA promotion that allows steroid use, for whatever reason, so be it. Let them at it.

It’s called bellator

Subcomandante Marcos · 14-09-2018 10:45pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

It’s called bellator

Bellator doesn't allow steroid use, they use let the athletic commissions of the states they have events in run their own programmes like Boxing does and the UFC used to. In fact the UFC still have to let the state athletic commissions do random testing.

Subcomandante Marcos · 15-09-2018 2:14am

Apparently Sage Northcutt is a free agent (not re-signed after contract ended) and is angling for a boxing match with Logan Paul.
Fupping hell.

Wrongway1985 · 15-09-2018 5:50am

Fromvert wrote: »

The testing comes out of the UFC's pocket and the UFC is losing out on potential money due to some of their top fighters getting shelved. The new owners are all about the money and the USADA testing is a money pit. And I for one look forward to it if I'm right.

So you are concerned about the UFCs financials and hope they give more leverage to drug users over naturally working athletes so you can be safe in the knowledge the bigwigs are much more comfortable?? May aswell order the reality show the Ultimate Druggy too.

JoeyJJ · 15-09-2018 8:21am

Brock isnt meant to be cleared until Jan but whats rules when nyc needs a headliner.

Whelo79 · 15-09-2018 8:29am

It's a nice early evening main card today. 7pm on BT2. I could get used to that.

tommyboy26 · 15-09-2018 11:32am

colby is back as interim champion....... is there anything Dana wont do...

two fighters missed weight for tonights card one missed by 5lbs...

Subcomandante Marcos · 15-09-2018 12:14pm

tommyboy26 wrote: »

colby is back as interim champion....... is there anything Dana wont do...

two fighters missed weight for tonights card one missed by 5lbs...

Unification fight confirmed for MSG so.

martyos121 · 15-09-2018 12:29pm

Ugh, so disinterested in that fight. I feel sad that a fight like that could main event in Madison Square Garden.

ricero · 15-09-2018 3:50pm

martyos121 wrote: »

Ugh, so disinterested in that fight. I feel sad that a fight like that could main event in Madison Square Garden.

I'm the opposite. I enjoy the antics of Colby and it will be good to see Tyron being cheered for once.

In a ideal world i would have Holloway vs T-City headline but Max just cant be relied upon these days.

Fromvert · 15-09-2018 6:14pm

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

So you are concerned about the UFCs financials and hope they give more leverage to drug users over naturally working athletes so you can be safe in the knowledge the bigwigs are much more comfortable?? May aswell order the reality show the Ultimate Druggy too.

I don't care about their financials and never said I do but they do, actually think the fighters are extremely underpaid but are too fractured/lazy/afraid/stupid to do anything to help themselves as a group. But I think the UFC will can it when they get the chance for those financial reasons. I want to see the best fighters fight and believe drug testing in sports has lost and is a waste of time as such a huge majority take them and are ahead of the testers.

tommyboy26 · 15-09-2018 6:15pm

martyos121 wrote: »

Ugh, so disinterested in that fight. I feel sad that a fight like that could main event in Madison Square Garden.

i really want to see someone shut the smug **** colby up. i cant see him having anything woodley cant handle

Tazzimus · 15-09-2018 8:05pm

Woodley excels at neutralising his opponents strengths.

He may be a hugely unlikeable ball bag, but he's a clever one

Mellor · 16-09-2018 12:31am

Colby is the perfect heel to get fans on side with Woodley.

Subcomandante Marcos · 16-09-2018 12:39am

Mellor wrote: »

Colby is the perfect heel to get fans on side with Woodley.

And Woodley will murder him.
There isn't a single area where Colby can hang with Tyron. He's an inferior wrestler, an inferior striker and He's been more suspect in the deep rounds.

He's going to get murdered

The Floyd p · 16-09-2018 12:56am

Unless you're actually going to the fight at MSG, does it really matter what the prestige of the main event is?

Mellor · 16-09-2018 4:39am

The Floyd p wrote: »

Unless you're actually going to the fight at MSG, does it really matter what the prestige of the main event is?

Well if you are planning on watching, it kinda does matter. As a fan, I want to watch big fights. PPVs have bigger match ups than Fight night events. And the MSG card is expected to be one if the bigger PPVs.

yourdeadwright · 17-09-2018 12:55pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Mellor wrote: »

Colby is the perfect heel to get fans on side with Woodley.

And Woodley will murder him.
There isn't a single area where Colby can hang with Tyron. He's an inferior wrestler, an inferior striker and He's been more suspect in the deep rounds.

He's going to get murdered

Your wrong on one account, Colby has better Cardio than Woodley by a good distance,
Woodley is a powerful fast twitch guy , so his gas tank is never going to be stellar,
Lately Woodley has learned to control his output so he doesn't tire as quickly but Colby can put a pace on and that will be his game plan to be in Woodley's face and make him work for the whole 5 minutes,
Is it enough to beat Woodley maybe not but Colby certainly has better Cardio than Woodley ,

ASOT · 17-09-2018 1:24pm

Jones up at the performance institute....

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnwIGhMn-wt/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=12hc9f70tbirz

dulux99 · 17-09-2018 6:14pm

Johnny Hendricks is fighting Brennan Ward in that bare knuckle organisation. Christ how the mighty have fallen.

0byme75341jo28 · 17-09-2018 7:06pm

dulux99 wrote: »

Johnny Hendricks is fighting Brennan Ward in that bare knuckle organisation. Christ how the mighty have fallen.

I'd watch it.

General MMA Chat/News mk3 - **No Spoilers Use Event Threads**

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General MMA Chat/News mk3 - No Spoilers Use Event Threads