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Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

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    #1352
    Grueller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭Grueller


    cosatron wrote: »
    if they give me 40 cent a litre for my milk and sh*t ill sign up straight away:D

    Wait til you see, the sh1t will eventually be more valuable than the milk. EBI first two columns will be sh1t and fertility now.


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    #1353
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users Posts: 6,890 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    What's Jersey sh!t like?


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    #1354
    straight
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭straight


    cosatron wrote: »
    if they give me 40 cent a litre for my milk and sh*t ill sign up straight away:D

    And as soon as they have u signed up and enough others they will keep cutting the price to maintain just enough supply. They will be able to blame energy markets and the like. The template already exists. Maybe drip feed out some rumours about the chance of making profit next year if you hang on in there.


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    #1355
    straight
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭straight


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    They cant make lads buyin to this their going to have to give real financial incentives to get buy-in at a big enough scale of farmers, if you look at germany it's the renewable energy side of things that keep the lights on for a lot of farms financially wise

    I hope your right but I wouldn't hold my breath. My girls are great little sh*tters €€€€€€


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    #1356
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    straight wrote: »
    And as soon as they have u signed up and enough others they will keep cutting the price to maintain just enough supply. They will be able to blame energy markets and the like. The template already exists. Maybe drip feed out some rumours about the chance of making profit next year if you hang on in there.

    Circa 5 million for each plant with 1200 acres of ground on a 3 cut system needed to supply it with silage plus slurry which would be 16000 tons(circa 1200 cows housed year round) the 400k cows slurry needed headline is pure bulls**t on the journal to be fair though , unless the co-ops fund it and incentivise it, it's a non-runner


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    #1357
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    Circa 5 million for each plant with 1200 acres of ground on a 3 cut system needed to supply it with silage plus slurry which would be 16000 tons(circa 1200 cows housed year round) the 400k cows slurry needed headline is pure bulls**t on the journal to be fair though , unless the co-ops fund it and incentivise it, it's a non-runner

    If it went ahead wouldn't it put an awful lot of heavy traffic on country roads, drawing slurry and grass to the plant?

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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    #1358
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭alps


    Prepare for fodder shortages...

    120,000 acres of grass silage required for this fantasy..

    Has driven plenty stock farms out of business in Germany (however these were subsidised).

    Boys in Donegal.know all about land rent from digesters..


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    #1359
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,152 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    alps wrote: »
    Prepare for fodder shortages...

    120,000 acres of grass silage required for this fantasy..

    Has driven plenty stock farms out of business in Germany (however these were subsidised).

    Boys in Donegal.know all about land rent from digesters..
    This and the straw initiative is the Green influence in government to reduce cattle numbers in this country by the back door.


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    #1360
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    alps wrote: »
    Prepare for fodder shortages...

    120,000 acres of grass silage required for this fantasy..

    Has driven plenty stock farms out of business in Germany (however these were subsidised).

    Boys in Donegal.know all about land rent from digesters..

    The sums simply don't add up for AD directly from grass unless there's a huge subsidy given. There might be a possibility of a viable industry using secondary cheaper feedstuff like slurry after the primary product, meat/milk, is taken.

    And the figures from the Journal look like the 400k cows slurry from the winter rather than 160k housed year round. And even then I've seen nothing about the risks of disease transmission through the return of AD feedstuffs back onto farms.


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    #1361
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    I think disease risk should be low considering the temp it cooks at.
    The adv is it can be spread on grazing ground.


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    #1362
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    alps wrote: »
    Prepare for fodder shortages...

    120,000 acres of grass silage required for this fantasy..

    Has driven plenty stock farms out of business in Germany (however these were subsidised).

    Boys in Donegal.know all about land rent from digesters..

    Stop growing feed grains and grow ad rye/triticale/beet and maize. The ad jobbies use field clamps or a maus to load out avoiding mud on the road. The country is full of pipe systems a few artics with bulkers and tankers job done. Make straw scarce and domestic feed gets a floor.


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    #1363
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭alps


    Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »
    The sums simply don't add up for AD directly from grass unless there's a huge subsidy given. There might be a possibility of a viable industry using secondary cheaper feedstuff like slurry after the primary product, meat/milk, is taken.

    And the figures from the Journal look like the 400k cows slurry from the winter rather than 160k housed year round. And even then I've seen nothing about the risks of disease transmission through the return of AD feedstuffs back onto farms.

    The sums just may be different here. A subsidy is certainly needed for electricity production, but this project is planning to hook into the existing gas network and be consumed by the coops.

    No risk of disease (they say) as digestate is pasteurized before being sent to the holding lagoons. However, you'd want some assurances about heavy metals etc and much is dependent on the quality control over the feedstock which is in many cases, waste from factories..

    Slurry need not be from fully housed cows as the plan probably is to run the whole contents of slurry stores and lagoons through a separator, by a contractor on farm, and the solids trucked to the digester.

    Problem with this is that everyone will want their slurry tanks separated on the 12th of January.

    All I can see here is diesel burned to separate solids from slurry. Diesel burned to get the solids to the digester. Diesel turned to bring the digestate back to the farm and all that has happened is that the farmer has sent his nutrients out the gate to have to bring them back again....

    Here's the twist and why they need government buy in..

    They require slurry to be exported from the farm (slurry export to get under 170 or 250 limits) and re import the nutrients, but reclassified as a fertiliser...


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    #1364
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The gas grid and injection points are not owned by the coops. Why do they think they'll have a monopoly?


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    #1365
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,650 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    straight wrote: »
    And as soon as they have u signed up and enough others they will keep cutting the price to maintain just enough supply. They will be able to blame energy markets and the like. The template already exists. Maybe drip feed out some rumours about the chance of making profit next year if you hang on in there.

    As it is global NG prices are on the floor with massive(and increasing) supply with no customers for alot of it eg. Qatar have a fleet of LPG tankers hired to store excess production, while Nigeria is burning off nearly all its NG production from oil fields. This nonsense is typical Green Party Greenwash that would actually enourage even more pollution pressures via increased intensive grass production, tranport emmissions etc.


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    #1366
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users Posts: 6,890 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    A big increase in Bobby calves if all this land is taken out of grassland


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    #1367
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    alps wrote: »
    The sums just may be different here. A subsidy is certainly needed for electricity production, but this project is planning to hook into the existing gas network and be consumed by the coops.

    No risk of disease (they say) as digestate is pasteurized before being sent to the holding lagoons. However, you'd want some assurances about heavy metals etc and much is dependent on the quality control over the feedstock which is in many cases, waste from factories..

    Slurry need not be from fully housed cows as the plan probably is to run the whole contents of slurry stores and lagoons through a separator, by a contractor on farm, and the solids trucked to the digester.

    Problem with this is that everyone will want their slurry tanks separated on the 12th of January.

    All I can see here is diesel burned to separate solids from slurry. Diesel burned to get the solids to the digester. Diesel turned to bring the digestate back to the farm and all that has happened is that the farmer has sent his nutrients out the gate to have to bring them back again....

    Here's the twist and why they need government buy in..

    They require slurry to be exported from the farm (slurry export to get under 170 or 250 limits) and re import the nutrients, but reclassified as a fertiliser...

    It's the co-ops needing to become carbon neutral by 2030 that's the push behind this and noting else, it's a green washing exercise on their part, ad plants aren't simple ran either by all accounts and it's a highly specialised skillset to run-one efficiently from reading up on them, slurry going into the ad plant needs to be pretty consistent too and from cows been fed a high quality diet, it's not simply the case that any type of slurry will do


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    #1368
    K9
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭K9


    Would it be more beneficial to piggeries as a way of exporting their slurry


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    #1369
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    I hope whoever is paid to do the feasibility study on this reads some of the above comments. Lots of clear issues from various viewpoints.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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    #1370
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    First lot of weanling heifers arrived last week. They are settled in well with plenty grass and 2kg of meal and rolled barley.

    Pricing the cost of building a lean-to now onto existing cubicles.

    If that is too high I might be selling these as in-calf heifers this time next year!

    Edit: I can’t upload photos using the phone but will try if I’m on the laptop later

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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    #1371
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Siamsa Sessions wrote: »
    I hope whoever is paid to do the feasibility study on this reads some of the above comments. Lots of clear issues from various viewpoints.

    It's not economically viable, circa 15 cent per kwh produced is needed for these purposed ad plants to break even, at present co-ops are paying 3.5 cent per kwh for natural gas, if these plants go ahead at the scale talked about processing costs at co-ops will sky rocket unless massive subsidies where available from the goverment our eu funding to plug the shortfall


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    #1372
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭alps


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    It's not economically viable, circa 15 cent per kwh produced is needed for these purposed ad plants to break even, at present co-ops are paying 3.5 cent per kwh for natural gas, if these plants go ahead at the scale talked about processing costs at co-ops will sky rocket unless massive subsidies where available from the goverment our eu funding to plug the shortfall

    They could fund it with a revolving fund..


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    #1373
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Has Germanys electricity costs not risen to some of the highest in Europe since they've gone into the "green" energy in order to cover running costs?
    They'll have a job on their hands if they find money for this and not paying adequate milk prices


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    #1374
    Timmaay
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    It's not economically viable, circa 15 cent per kwh produced is needed for these purposed ad plants to break even, at present co-ops are paying 3.5 cent per kwh for natural gas, if these plants go ahead at the scale talked about processing costs at co-ops will sky rocket unless massive subsidies where available from the goverment our eu funding to plug the shortfall

    Its pure green washing, in an effort to do some sort of deal to continue increasing milk output in Ireland. And this is the current single biggest problem with many clean methods of energy production, compared to the price of natural gas the economics are absolutely suicidal, and no individual sector would dream of voluntary going down that route. It has to come from government subsidiary, and obviously the government isn't going to go down this route unless most other countries are signed up to something similar.


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    #1375
    Tonynewholland
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    This is like the biodiesel a few years ago.


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    #1376
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭alps


    Interesting article
    https://www.europeanbiogas.eu/switch-biogas-save-ireland-massive-fines/

    The stated objective by Diagio is..

    “We would purchase this gas via a certification scheme, whereby we would pay the generator for the quantity of gas that they inject into the national grid, and we would claim the associated GHG emissions benefit resulting from the displaced volume of natural gas. We burn gas on site to generate electricity and steam, which is distributed to all process and facilities users across the St. James’s Gate site.”

    Farmers just need to be wise to how this plays out..


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    #1377
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭alps


    Farm have an inate capability of reducing GHG's...

    You can see here where Big Ag an Multinationals will try to position themselves to utilise farms and claim the associated emmissions benefit.

    Farmers need to own that benefit and sell it on whatever way they see fit..


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    #1378
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    alps wrote: »
    Farm have an inate capability of reducing GHG's...

    You can see here where Big Ag an Multinationals will try to position themselves to utilise farms and claim the associated emmissions benefit.

    Farmers need to own that benefit and sell it on whatever way they see fit..

    100% agree. Farmers are the only ones who can generate milk, meat, cereals, and now slurry. People will want that - we just need to make sure the usual smart boys don’t get it from us on the cheap

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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    #1379
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    I think carbon is priced around €30/ton. Forecasts put that at €80/ton in 10 years. All these boys who see €€€ are in the long game.


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    #1380
    RightTurnClyde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭RightTurnClyde


    alps wrote: »
    They could fund it with a revolving fund..

    .... with a supply agreement that has no mention of the price they will pay us.
    Seems ludicrous doesnt it !!


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    #1381
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    We were collected today and the milk this evening won't be paid for till the 18th December, that's about 9 weeks away. You wouldn't want to be looking too closely at what's going on, it's too depressing:confused:


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