Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

EYEBALLSOUT · 15-06-2019 8:21pm

SW1985 wrote: »

Perhaps it was a bit strongly worded when talking about someone as great as Ken. People dont want to question him due to how great a player he was. Using those words does me no favours because people will just close down when they hear any criticism of him and basically not listen to the argument.

I've always found his analysis of Waterford a bit simplistic and naive to and completely honest. All this courage to play and let them off the leash stuff. The game has changed a lot and he seems to want it to still be the 90s and 00s. If you look at limericks approach for example you can see how tactical it's gone. If you dont understand this stuff and adapt to it you wont be competitive.

Even Shefflin for all his talk about not using systems changed his tune when managing Ballyhale. Coady has tried pretty much everything except traditional style hurling in the last couple of years now that he doesnt have the best players any more. A lot of this stuff from these pundits was all talk and more about their preferred style to watch than an actual assesment of how effective the tactics were.

Ken also spent most of the last couple of years claiming Derek was holding back a good group of players. This year without a hint of self awareness he now says we don't have good enough players. It cant be both. We need more factually based arguments. And people need to be a big more discerning than just listening to what these lads say and taking it as gospel because of how good they were as players.

Remember one thing Ken might have been vocal re Derek not allowing the lads attack more- he wasn’t the only one. Also important to note that these players are all 4yrs older and some are gone ott so he’s probably right that the quality of of players that are there currently are not firing plus we have no natural forwards of the calibre in lk, tipp or Cork.
Look i get what your saying but unfortunately the lads going at each won’t solve our woes!!
Btw, you mentioned Shefflin changing his system setup with Ballyhale?? How ?

SW1985 · 15-06-2019 8:31pm

EYEBALLSOUT wrote: »

Remember one thing Ken might have been vocal re Derek not allowing the lads attack more- he wasn’t the only one. Also important to note that these players are all 4yrs older and some are gone ott so he’s probably right that the quality of of players that are there currently are not firing plus we have no natural forwards of the calibre in lk, tipp or Cork.
Look i get what your saying but unfortunately the lads going at each won’t solve our woes!!
Btw, you mentioned Shefflin changing his system setup with Ballyhale?? How ?

Yes, a lot of people have been saying the same thing. I believe they are incorrect and not reading the modern game properly.

We're not talking about 4 years ago though. He's been saying it over the last couple of years. We've gained a few good lads this year. I dont think they are a worse group considering the emergence of Prunty, Lyons and Prendergast. They do look unfit and rudderless though.

TJ Reid did an interview talking about the much more possession based approach now. Shorter passing, shortening the pitch when out of possession etc. Henry plays up the simple traditional hurling man persona and enjoyed taking shots at Waterfords style. But as a manager he was a lot more analytical and pragmatic.

Ropaire · 15-06-2019 9:58pm

Sure pundits usually try to dumb it down to appeal to as large an audience as possible. If your watching the Sunday Game to learn how to coach an inter County team you're at nothing lad.

In fairness to Ken you can see the pain of it on his face the last few weeks whereas Derek when he's on is usually making himself look great talking about how if he was in charge there'd be load of more defenders.

As for the modern game, Dereks first year was a joke, year 2 was steadying the ship and making us hard to beat, was arguably on the right track for the players available to him but never pushed up extra forwards or tried to develop it further and got found out. Then he pulled more men back to try and shut out teams, i.e. play with fear when he was found out. Put him back in now, will he match the limericks and tips the way they're after setting up with his system? Cos he only has a plan A. No chance. He had 5 years, had 1 lucky run to a final and nearly pulled it off for which we're all thankful but now he's more of a hindrance than a help with the ****e he's at in the paper.

Deiseen · 15-06-2019 9:59pm

The amount of times I have heard pundits talk about systems without ever being able to describe one minor detail about these "systems" asside from harping on about sweepers all the time.

EYEBALLSOUT · 15-06-2019 10:02pm

SW1985 wrote: »

Yes, a lot of people have been saying the same thing. I believe they are incorrect and not reading the modern game properly.

We're not talking about 4 years ago though. He's been saying it over the last couple of years. We've gained a few good lads this year. I dont think they are a worse group considering the emergence of Prunty, Lyons and Prendergast. They do look unfit and rudderless though.

TJ Reid did an interview talking about the much more possession based approach now. Shorter passing, shortening the pitch when out of possession etc. Henry plays up the simple traditional hurling man persona and enjoyed taking shots at Waterfords style. But as a manager he was a lot more analytical and pragmatic.

Ah i see what you mean but in fairness passing the ball to the man in the better position makes sense as opposed to blasting it down the field! Ballyhale v Ballygunner was interesting though. They pushed up on the Bg backs forcing the ball to be pucked long knowing Bg had no ball winners. Bg left the Ballyhale half backs free from general play and as a result only scored 3pts from play compared to 1-10 from Ballyhale.
Only ever going to be one winner unfortunately.
I suppose we def gained a few good lads this yr but unfortunately the Brick (what a servant), Kevin Moran (great player) and Noelie Connors (one if the best) are all on the weign, and then add in Shane Fives, Philip Mahony and Maurice are not far behind as well- thats a lot of players to replace in nearly one go so thats where i think Ken’s point is going.
Anyway, we’re not going to solve the woes but fair play, you made a couple of great points.
Deise abú!

Gary Gurney · 15-06-2019 11:12pm

It's tough reading over the last few pages of comments really. All the bad vibes and inner politics in Waterford gaa have really come to the fore over the last couple of weeks in probably in all reality our lowest point in the last 25 years.

Whilst it should not be that suprising from anyone who is actually clued into the Waterford gaa scene, I do feel McGrath has let himself down badly with the latest article published over the weekend. I won't dwell on it and issue personal abuse but it must be said that in my eyes he just comes across extremely petty and someone with a serious chip on their shoulder. We wished him well when in charge, he didn't get us over the line and when it wasn't always plain sailing for him he should back the current set up instead of harping on about deep bonds he has with players etc etc.

However, probably my most suprising finding of the reaction of his article is the amount of people praising his English language skills just because he's able to quote leaving cert level English? Mind blowing

Stacksofwacks · 15-06-2019 11:15pm

What young players should get a look in next year..In terms of forwards Neil Montgomery Abbeyside looks promising as does JP Lucey from Shamrocks. Some lads may not be good enough but you'll never know unless you give them a decent chance. The league next year will be vital for the future of Waterford hurling. There should be at least 5 or 6 rookies in the starting line up every game and even if they dont perform they should be left in the next day and hopefully they will come good. With respect to Brick, Moran and a few others they should be left go regardless if they want to stay on.

Mastermcgrath · 16-06-2019 1:20am

any word on Fannings future? It’s a week on now since our season ended and I haven’t heard the county board come out and back him. I know he was given a 2 year term but I imagine after the disastrous performances there will need to be a review of his position and backroom team?

Stacksofwacks · 16-06-2019 1:24am

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

any word on Fannings future? It’s a week on now since our season ended and I haven’t heard the county board come out and back him. I know he was given a 2 year term but I imagine after the disastrous performances there will need to be a review of his position and backroom team?

He's indicated that he wants to stay on and "knows what needs to be done alrite". So it looks like he's not going to resign. Then the board has a decision to make. If it was any premier league or championship club and he got those kind of results then the trigger would be pulled fast. I dont think he's done enough to get a second year, a few close defeats I could live with as long as there was signs of progress but that was just a disaster!

Obi1mikal · 16-06-2019 7:12am

SW1985 wrote: »

Ken was an incredible hurler. His analysis is simplistic at best and inaccurate. In 2018 we had a great team held back by tactics. In 2019 we need a root and branch review because the players are no good. Cant have it both ways.

What has ken said that is inaccurate?? When he looked last year he felt that the players were held back by tactics and now he thinks they are not good enough.. remember in both years they still didn't win a championship game.. ken speaks the truth because when Waterford lose it hurts him more then anything..

You think derek is right no matter what he says but he is is the same person who sat and waited two years to retaliate to something ken said on a day which was a fact that day.

His article was absolutely outrageous but yet people are blaming ken. If more people had the gaul to speak like ken then something might happen rather then defending a man who delivered the sum total of nothing...

puzl · 16-06-2019 9:23am

Whatever new team we end up with next year will need to rebuild and will need consistency to do so. If fanning is the man for that job then give him 3-4 years to do it. If he isn't the man for that job then he should go right now so we can get down to the business of rebuilding properly. We've no time for "a shur give him another lash at it".

willbeuptuesday · 16-06-2019 10:03am

Lads took this off the RTÉ article on Gaa funding, we need more GDA’s in our schools to develop the games in Waterford, currently we have 3.

“Ballyboden GAA, with more than 3000 members and 140 teams between juvenile and adult ranks, has two full-time coaches.”

In terms of monies received from Gaa central council we are nowhere! Money makes big difference just look at the Dublin hurling team yesterday. Ask yourself honestly who will win an all Ireland sooner Waterford or Dublin. They started by redrawing their structures 15 years ago as did Limerick, what are we doing? To paraphrase our county board officers “nothing to see here, we are grand”.

hurler on de ditch · 16-06-2019 10:03am

puzl wrote: »

Whatever new team we end up with next year will need to rebuild and will need consistency to do so. If fanning is the man for that job then give him 3-4 years to do it. If he isn't the man for that job then he should go right now so we can get down to the business of rebuilding properly. We've no time for "a shur give him another lash at it".

Wtf

Mastermcgrath · 16-06-2019 10:47am

puzl wrote: »

Whatever new team we end up with next year will need to rebuild and will need consistency to do so. If fanning is the man for that job then give him 3-4 years to do it. If he isn't the man for that job then he should go right now so we can get down to the business of rebuilding properly. We've no time for "a shur give him another lash at it".

He needs to go now. Could not contemplate him getting 3/4 years. Yes the players downed tools for him but don’t forget tactically it was a complete shambles, Ken McGrath was 100% right we looked clueless and rudderless. It’s been a disastrous call by the co board to appoint him and if he’s not going to step aside they need to man up and admit that it was an error and go get the right man this time.
I don’t buy into the view that there’s this big rebuilding job needed, the best players are there now. Bar one or 2 to move on the nucleus of the side for the next 3/4 years is there. But who can make a team out of them is the question.

Deise Gael · 16-06-2019 4:27pm

https://twitter.com/kenmcgrath78?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Stacksofwacks · 16-06-2019 4:38pm

Deise Gael wrote: »

https://twitter.com/kenmcgrath78?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Stop this fight ref he's gonna break every bone in his body!

willbeuptuesday · 16-06-2019 5:33pm

U17 Hurling Celtic Challenge: Kerry 2-19 Waterford 3-12

Road-Hog · 16-06-2019 6:02pm

willbeuptuesday wrote: »

U17 Hurling Celtic Challenge: Kerry 2-19 Waterford 3-12

Never hear of this competition.......are you sure it’s not football......did Kerry u17’s play in the Munster championship games...??

willbeuptuesday · 16-06-2019 6:19pm

It’s hurling alright, next years minors I assume. Photo of the winning Kerry team on Radio Kerry sport twitter feed.

Road-Hog wrote: »

Never hear of this competition.......are you sure it’s not football......did Kerry u17’s play in the Munster championship games...??

upthedeise16 · 16-06-2019 6:33pm

willbeuptuesday wrote: »

It’s hurling alright, next years minors I assume. Photo of the winning Kerry team on Radio Kerry sport twitter feed.

It’s this years minor b team basically, a team made up of players not picked for the minor panel

Deisefacts · 16-06-2019 6:49pm

upthedeise16 wrote: »

It’s this years minor b team basically, a team made up of players not picked for the minor panel

It’s a worrying fact. The Kerry team was made up of 12 players from the causeway school who beat blackwater community school in the u-16 1/2 Munster “c” schools final. Blackwater had 3 county minors playing and 4 Celtic cup players playing on the day.

Also just another few bits from the weekend, Waterford were the only county with no participant in the Munster senior long puc. This isn’t the most shameful thing from the weekend thought. Our u-20 footballers were beaten 7-18 to 1-7 by Laois in the new u-20 league. This on top of earlier defeats to Tipperary(6-22 to 01), Wexford (5-24 to 2-4) and Carlow( 5-15 to 1-7). Also our u-20 hurlers we’re beaten by Wexford last week by either 11/12 pts.

I haven’t been on in awhile as I’m still trying to digest all that has happened over the last few months with hurling and football. I predicted last November that things would unravel but I never expected to see the hammerings our senior teams would get. ðŸ˜¢ðŸ˜¢ðŸ˜¢

Alf Tupper · 16-06-2019 8:00pm

Deise Gael wrote: »

https://twitter.com/kenmcgrath78?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Ah Boy Ken no harm to call out the bluffer. Watched him today on the SG and the gasbag was still talking about systems. F**ing systems. He managed to bring his son into the analaysis too waffling about seamie callinan. Ive been watching different analysts for years on the tele and not one of them has manged that feat. F8cking narcissist if he was a bar of chocolate he would eat himself

puzl · 16-06-2019 8:24pm

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

He needs to go now. Could not contemplate him getting 3/4 years. Yes the players downed tools for him but don’t forget tactically it was a complete shambles, Ken McGrath was 100% right we looked clueless and rudderless. It’s been a disastrous call by the co board to appoint him and if he’s not going to step aside they need to man up and admit that it was an error and go get the right man this time.
I don’t buy into the view that there’s this big rebuilding job needed, the best players are there now. Bar one or 2 to move on the nucleus of the side for the next 3/4 years is there. But who can make a team out of them is the question.

That's what I'm saying. The right man for the job needs to be given 4 years. If it's not PF then thank him and get the man who is right for the job. He's either right for the job or he's not, I don't understand the "give him another year" people...

JeffKenna · 16-06-2019 10:43pm

Alf Tupper wrote: »

Deise Gael wrote: »

https://twitter.com/kenmcgrath78?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Ah Boy Ken no harm to call out the bluffer. Watched him today on the SG and the gasbag was still talking about systems. F**ing systems. He managed to bring his son into the analaysis too waffling about seamie callinan. Ive been watching different analysts for years on the tele and not one of them has manged that feat. F8cking narcissist if he was a bar of chocolate he would eat himself

I was listening to him on RTE radio yesterday evening and when he started discussing Ken and tactics he began saying that the game and players have changed so much in the last 15 years. 14 out of 15 lads would now have gone to college. I was really gobsmacked at the insinuation he was making.

Mastermcgrath · 16-06-2019 10:50pm

Alf Tupper wrote: »

Ah Boy Ken no harm to call out the bluffer. Watched him today on the SG and the gasbag was still talking about systems. F**ing systems. He managed to bring his son into the analaysis too waffling about seamie callinan. Ive been watching different analysts for years on the tele and not one of them has manged that feat. F8cking narcissist if he was a bar of chocolate he would eat himself

The 2 lads sniping at each other is helping no one not least Waterford hurling. We are the laughing stock of the hurling world once again. A lot of players on the panel would be close to both these men in some shape or form so all they’re doing is driving a wedge in an already divided camp. If they really want to help Waterford hurling then they should bring some positive solutions to the table.
Like I said in a previous post D MCG is in the media now, let him off if people see Shakespearean quotes a breath of ‘fresh air’ added to hurling analysis then so be it. but if you’re like me and cringe everytime the guy opens his mouth then dont read it or switch off, simple.

Waternut · 16-06-2019 11:50pm

It's embarrassing, two forty year old men acting like school children over the media.

I had a lot of time for Derek. I always thought his intentions were right albeit his methods never sat easy with me.

He has however seriously let himself down. He has come across as bitter, vindictive and honestly I can't see any county, including Waterford, wanting to have anything to do with him in future.

hardybuck · 16-06-2019 11:52pm

Any self respecting county would be up in arms after two years without a championship win, and going from All Ireland finalists to way off the pace.

If you were in Tipp, Kilkenny, Cork, Kerry etc. the public and past players would all be lining up to have a go. A friend on mine who played with Kerry recalls being literally spat on in the street after losing a crucial game to inferior opposition.

Derek makes some very valid points, particularly about mental health and the criticism players are expected to absorb. However, I feel sorry for him that he still feels so bitter a year after leaving the role.

Derek is a self described management addict, and also did this role as a full time gig for a number of years. I hope for his sake that he can move on and set the record straight on the field rather than writing about it.

Mastermcgrath · 17-06-2019 2:56am

hardybuck wrote: »

. A friend on mine who played with Kerry recalls being literally spat on in the street after losing a crucial game to inferior opposition.
.

And your using that in support of your argument???..

Waternut · 17-06-2019 4:59am

hardybuck wrote: »

Any self respecting county would be up in arms after two years without a championship win, and going from All Ireland finalists to way off the pace.

If you were in Tipp, Kilkenny, Cork, Kerry etc. the public and past players would all be lining up to have a go. A friend on mine who played with Kerry recalls being literally spat on in the street after losing a crucial game to inferior opposition.

Derek makes some very valid points, particularly about mental health and the criticism players are expected to absorb. However, I feel sorry for him that he still feels so bitter a year after leaving the role.

Derek is a self described management addict, and also did this role as a full time gig for a number of years. I hope for his sake that he can move on and set the record straight on the field rather than writing about it.

I agree with most of what you say, but I'm still really confused as to where Derek's chip on the shoulder is coming from.

He had his time. He had five years. He had the support of the board, the players and the majority of the fans.

It didn't work, simple as. He tried his way, and fair fu(ks to him for trying a different way, I'll always commend him for it, but it simply didn't work. We won a league but never really looked like winning a Munster or All Ireland. Galway were six or seven points better than us on the day and their forwards gave an exhibition.

I don't think anyone who played the game of hurling really believed we could win an All Ireland with one, maybe two forwards positioned inside the opposing half, but look as I said, he tried, it was something different, but it didn't work.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, so of course Fanning come in and changed things about.

The last few days has been embarressing and the cheap shots flying over and back between men who should know better, is ridiculous.

hardybuck · 17-06-2019 8:00am

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

And your using that in support of your argument???..

Some people are suggesting that we're a soap opera that the country are laughing at. I'm saying that every county with any sort of ambition would have this sort of response and probably a lot worse.

PTH2009 · 17-06-2019 12:47pm

Doesn't look great for under 20s in both codes going by the scores reported from challenge games a few posts back

Any news on Fanning staying for 2020 ???. Believe he has every intention of doing so but with the toxic atmosphere reported from the camp its hard too knw what players will want to come back for next season. The Coutny Board should look into it and ignore what the clown PJR said

shockframe · 17-06-2019 7:16pm

The article was all over the place but given the critics of him that existed he was always going to fire back.

From the outside I would say Derek Mcgrath did the best with what he had. 2 league and Munster finals with 3 All Ireland semi final appearances and 1 final is a respectable return.

I remember Ken Mcgrath had a tweet during the 2016 league final saying something like hurling was ruined. I get the impression that there was bad blood between himself and Derek after how it ended up with Michael Ryan.

I can understand where Derek is coming from. Comparisons to Jim Mcguinness and Donegal (which is also drastictically unfair in its criticism for both). Non stop digs at his style of play and how hurling should be played and then when he goes and with an underwhelming follow on season the same people talking about how the game should be played point to something else and how they don't have the players. It's hard to blame Derek for hitting back.

Strangely I’d say he’s glad to be gone from the setup. He’s established himself on TV and the journalism/vlog scene. Talks of him going back in would be fanciful. Would say he has no notion of doing so or a good couple of years.

Mastermcgrath · 18-06-2019 1:03am

How are the u20's shaping up? Any challenge games? From what I remember the minor group from 2 years ago were annihilated in every game in the Munster Championship, so its safe not to expect much from this group?

Mastermcgrath · 18-06-2019 3:54am

shockframe wrote: »

Talks of him going back in would be fanciful. Would say he has no notion of doing so or a good couple of years.

I don't understand all this talk of him going back in a 'couple of years', like its some sort of inevitability. Its been spoken about constantly from the very day he stepped aside, and was the first person to mention it himself that he'd love to go back in a few years when 'the lads are 27 or 8'. Why did he ever step down then in the first place if its his destiny to return 'a few years down the line'?

As far as I'm concerned the ship has well and truly sailed and we shouldn't even be entertaining the idea. Too much water under the bridge.
Its not like JBM or Liam Sheedy who earned the right to get a second shot at it due to the legendary status in their own counties

cul beag · 18-06-2019 6:42am

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

I don't understand all this talk of him going back in a 'couple of years', like its some sort of inevitability. Its been spoken about constantly from the very day he stepped aside, and was the first person to mention it himself that he'd love to go back in a few years when 'the lads are 27 or 8'. Why did he ever step down then in the first place if its his destiny to return 'a few years down the line'?

As far as I'm concerned the ship has well and truly sailed and we shouldn't even be entertaining the idea. Too much water under the bridge.
Its not like JBM or Liam Sheedy who earned the right to get a second shot at it due to the legendary status in their own counties

But in his own mind he believes he is deserving of legendary status. Unfortunately some players/supporters seem to think the same thing. He’s like the jilted ex boyfriend that can’t accept he has been blown out! Unfortunately for him there aren’t too many more fish in the sea though team wise! Wexford maybe but that’s all I’d imagine.

hardybuck · 18-06-2019 9:29am

There is far too much talk about a guy who hasn't been involved in Waterford teams for a year.

Get used to the idea that he'll be our very own Ger Loughnane or Babs Keating, writing about Waterford long into the future for whoever is bothered reading their articles.

The key difference between Loughnane, Babs and Derek is that the other two lads won All Irelands and have maybe earned their right to talk nonsense from time to time.

Road-Hog · 18-06-2019 10:42am

hardybuck wrote: »

There is far too much talk about a guy who hasn't been involved in Waterford teams for a year.

Get used to the idea that he'll be our very own Ger Loughnane or Babs Keating, writing about Waterford long into the future for whoever is bothered reading their articles.

The key difference between Loughnane, Babs and Derek is that the other two lads won All Irelands and have maybe earned their right to talk nonsense from time to time.

There are plenty of sports journalists eg vincent Hogan, Sean Moran etc who never even coached a team who write articles like mcgrath particularly hogan so don’t be going over the top on criticism of mcgrath. Yes he uses Shakespeare quotes and ‘big words’ but so did guys like yer man cashman (Kevin I think it was) who used to write years ago....

hardybuck · 18-06-2019 11:07am

Road-Hog wrote: »

There are plenty of sports journalists eg vincent Hogan, Sean Moran etc who never even coached a team who write articles like mcgrath particularly hogan so don’t be going over the top on criticism of mcgrath. Yes he uses Shakespeare quotes and ‘big words’ but so did guys like yer man cashman (Kevin I think it was) who used to write years ago....

Yes but these guys are journalists, not secondary school teachers.

None of them (I don't think) were involved with intercounty teams and used their profile to settle past scores and attempt to develop/maintain their legacy status.

I'd be delighted to see Derek go back into managing and direct his focus there - do the talking on the field.

mountgomery burns · 18-06-2019 12:21pm

If you really wanted to move on Hardybuck, was there a need to throw a couple more digs in?

Anyway, since we're moving on could we request a MOD do to a poll on whether people think Fanning should stay or go, or is that against charter rules? Would be interested to see what the consensus is.

hardybuck · 18-06-2019 12:36pm

mountgomery burns wrote: »

If you really wanted to move on Hardybuck, was there a need to throw a couple more digs in?

Anyway, since we're moving on could we request a MOD do to a poll on whether people think Fanning should stay or go, or is that against charter rules? Would be interested to see what the consensus is.

I don't think I got any real digs in - more of a factual response in my opinion.

If a poll was put up, I think people would need to be clear on what viable alternatives might be available.

mountgomery burns · 18-06-2019 1:29pm

hardybuck wrote: »

I don't think I got any real digs in - more of a factual response in my opinion.

If a poll was put up, I think people would need to be clear on what viable alternatives might be available.

Sorry but comparing anyone to Babs Keating is clearly a dig. Regardless of what he's won, must be the least respected commentator of the game at this stage. The man dropped Eoin Kelly as Tipp manager for f*CK sake.

Also the secondary school teacher, not journalist comment...so should Duignan, Mullane, Brennan, Shefflin and English not be writing columns either?

Hartley and Queally a decent place to start. But the fact they're both from Waterford, inevitably there's a few on here who already dislike them.

hardybuck · 18-06-2019 1:46pm

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Sorry but comparing anyone to Babs Keating is clearly a dig. Regardless of what he's won, must be the least respected commentator of the game at this stage. The man dropped Eoin Kelly as Tipp manager for f*CK sake.

Also the secondary school teacher, not journalist comment...so should Duignan, Mullane, Brennan, Shefflin and English not be writing columns either?

Hartley and Queally a decent place to start. But the fact they're both from Waterford, inevitably there's a few on here who already dislike them.

I put him in a category of ex-intercounty managers with an apparent axe to grind category, and who divide opinion within their own counties. That's the Ger Loughnane and Babs Keating Club. I'm sure there's one or two more - Tony Considine is definitely another.

Nicky English is another category - the All Ireland winner who doesn't seem to annoy anyone category. Liam Griffin is also in that bracket, John O'Mahony et al.

Another poster mentioned a number of high profile journalists and McGrath in the same sentence. I wasn't at all having a dig by trying to distinguish between him as a secondary school teacher doing a few nixers and those who are respected full time journalists at the top of their professions.

And finally, would you put the likes of Queally and Hartley ahead of people like Colm Bonnar and Fintan O'Connor who are both coaching intercounty teams at present? Carlow under Bonnar finished the Championship with a better scoring difference than Waterford.

blue note · 18-06-2019 2:03pm

It is hypocritical that people are coming on here taking pot shots at Derek while saying that he should keep his opinions to himself.

The fact that the same people like to tell us that he should have done better (than runners up in the all Ireland) given the players he had and that now we need to clear out half of those players to have any chance of being competitive in munster again should help him understand that many of his critics (the likes of the ones here) haven't a clue. It's probably why he's taking aim at those that should know better, like former players or journalists.

thesaturdayman · 18-06-2019 2:08pm

Probably worth putting a few things out there re Derek / Ken etc...

full time secondary school teacher of english from Sept - early May.

part time journalist Late may to Sept.

the fact he was already well spoken & a wordsmith, with a decent grasp of the English language leaned itself to working in media written and spoken, he was probably more likely to hit the ground running here then say for eg. Tony Browne or Dan.

Paper never refuses ink and all that, but i think its important to point out Derek no more then Sheedy in his time, Loughnane, Daly, Cyril farrell the same persistently references their own experiences in mgmt.

Why does Derek get slated for same? I can only assume it is a Waterford bias against him from the way uses language & quotes, as it is not something we are used to and now factor in the hurling style deployed that was at odds with our "traditions" / the "Waterford Way" & now we have someone who speaks differently and thinks differently about hurling in waterford and the way it should be played - talk about stirring the Waterford GAA supporting hornets nest.

I didnt like the swipe at ken. Nor did i like the reply. However, I did feel he was right to cut down flannery for his petty article & should have gone another few inches into the CB.

I think it is disappointing and detrimental to us all, that two of the counties leading lights (one our greatest ever hurler the other our greatest waterfordian manager of modern era, certiaintly a Ying & Yang pairing in terms of philosophy) are now at odds with each other, both should be working cohesively to plot the future out & the people that should be held to account - i.e. the county board officers - be in the spotlight, not this current circus.

It should be the duty of the custodians of Waterford GAA to get these people working together for the greater good & not tearing chunks out of each other. In my experience that is what real leadership entails.

hardybuck · 18-06-2019 2:26pm

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Probably worth putting a few things out there re Derek / Ken etc...

full time secondary school teacher of english from Sept - early May.

part time journalist Late may to Sept.

the fact he was already well spoken & a wordsmith, with a decent grasp of the English language leaned itself to working in media written and spoken, he was probably more likely to hit the ground running here then say for eg. Tony Browne or Dan.

Paper never refuses ink and all that, but i think its important to point out Derek no more then Sheedy in his time, Loughnane, Daly, Cyril farrell the same persistently references their own experiences in mgmt.

Why does Derek get slated for same? I can only assume it is a Waterford bias against him from the way uses language & quotes, as it is not something we are used to and now factor in the hurling style deployed that was at odds with our "traditions" / the "Waterford Way" & now we have someone who speaks differently and thinks differently about hurling in waterford and the way it should be played - talk about stirring the Waterford GAA supporting hornets nest.

I didnt like the swipe at ken. Nor did i like the reply. However, I did feel he was right to cut down flannery for his petty article & should have gone another few inches into the CB.

I think it is disappointing and detrimental to us all, that two of the counties leading lights (one our greatest ever hurler the other our greatest waterfordian manager of modern era, certiaintly a Ying & Yang pairing in terms of philosophy) are now at odds with each other, both should be working cohesively to plot the future out & the people that should be held to account - i.e. the county board officers - be in the spotlight, not this current circus.

It should be the duty of the custodians of Waterford GAA to get these people working together for the greater good & not tearing chunks out of each other. In my experience that is what real leadership entails.

While I broadly agree with a lot of the above, personally I thought he came across as though he had a serious axe to grind and it just looked very smug.

He's received criticism for grinding that axe in this fashion, and probably because he never had the support of large portions of the county anyway. I think to be fair he's a guy that's been involved in plenty of controversial things since he was a player himself and any criticism will probably result in him doubling down on his own methods.

I don't think we're used to one of our own doing coming out in the media and being critical - and this has irked man. However, as I posted a while back this would be standard procedure in other counties like Tipp, Kerry, Cork etc. when things aren't going well - ex players and managers are lining up to take pot shots.

hardybuck · 18-06-2019 2:39pm

Derek also blew a perfectly good opportunity to use the 'Something is rotten in the state of Denmark line' as well!

BazBox · 18-06-2019 2:46pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Derek also blew a perfectly good opportunity to use the 'Something is rotten in the state of Denmark line' as well!

He could have said "Something is rotten in the state that is Walsh Park".

Missed a big opportunity there.

At this stage it looks like Fanning is staying on, everything is gone quiet??

mountgomery burns · 18-06-2019 3:32pm

hardybuck wrote: »

And finally, would you put the likes of Queally and Hartley ahead of people like Colm Bonnar and Fintan O'Connor who are both coaching intercounty teams at present? Carlow under Bonnar finished the Championship with a better scoring difference than Waterford.

Well they were the first two to come to mind, I'm sure there are several who would be in the discussion. I think there is a big difference between being an intercounty manager of Waterford and being the manager of Carlow or Kerry though.

Bonnar was around Waterford circles for a long time, think it's unlikely he be considered at this point. Record as Wexford manager was poor as well, and the scoring difference point is more of an indictment of Waterford than cause for praise of Carlow.

O'Connor I have time for, but (and it may have absolutely no basis) it was mooted that the players didn't want him and that's why he left the Waterford setup. Given his links to McGraths tenure, you would imagine he'd be unpopular with McGraths detractors at the first sign of trouble too.

Think Queallys record with lesser lights in the club championship is fantastic to be honest, and although Ballygunner have the best pick Hartleys still got an impressive record with them and they beat a better team to win the Munster club this year. Was much more popular than former Cork intercounty manager Denis Walsh down there anyway.

I know because neither of them were successful when in charge of the 21s that will be an automatic rejection for some (Queally was unlucky in 2013 with Paudie Prenders red card I think) but they have since done their claims no harm.

hardybuck · 18-06-2019 3:59pm

I think Carlow have done amazing to compete so well at that level with just four senior clubs.

I'd give Fanning another year, especially if there wasn't another obviously better candidate available.

Anthony Cunningham would be my wildcard choice.

Mastermcgrath · 19-06-2019 5:01am

hardybuck wrote: »

I think Carlow have done amazing to compete so well at that level with just four senior clubs.

I'd give Fanning another year, especially if there wasn't another obviously better candidate available.

Anthony Cunningham would be my wildcard choice.

Fanning has to go. Your dreaming if you think he can turn it around next year. It’s obvious he has lost the dressing room and it’s next to impossible to win it back once that happens. People seem to be overlooking the tactical shambles that occurred out on the pitch, whether players downed tools or not. I refuse to beleive there is no one better available. Fannings only option from here is a big clearout of the players that aren’t on board. Which is half the panel and pretty much all the top players in the county.

He has to go

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