Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

BattleCorp · 07-01-2021 11:49am

I'd a WhatsApp row with one of my woke cousins in America last night/this morning. They were spouting on about what was going on last night and when I asked what's the difference in this and what the BLM crowd are doing, she got thick and said they weren't remotely the same.

I agreed with her. The trump supporters aren't looting.

She's not talking to me now. ha ha.

BattleCorp · 07-01-2021 11:50am

Mellor wrote: »

Trump pressuring Pence to breach his role, and act illegally in regards to electoral college votes was insane. Pence now public breaking ties with Trump. Greater than 0% chance we see the 25th enacted before inauguration.

I'm not a Trump supporter but what has he done in the last week to warrant trying to oust him using the 25th Amendment?

The only think I can see is that he's crapped on about election fraud but he's been doing that for 6 months now.

Cass · 07-01-2021 12:23pm

There is a conspiracy theory about the Dems using the 25th to remove him because they "know the election is false and a big surprise is coming".

In my opinion that is crap. Not the election part the big surprise part. As off this morning, yesterday actually, the election is certified and thats a done deal.

What the Dems are doing is simple. They didn't have the votes to fully impeach Trump the last time, but now they might just in the senate. While they only have a two seat majority and it requires a two thirds for impeachment there are a number of Rinos who have openly criticised the President and may just side with the dems.

So what is the point of the 25th if he is out of office in two weeks? Precedent. No President has ever been removed from office using the 25th Amendment and as a final "f**k you" to Trump the Dems want to stick this to him.

With Pence sensing the changing winds, the Rinos now being safe to openly jump ship, and the Dems having both houses and the white house they might, and a I stress might, just be able to squeeze him out.

Cass · 07-01-2021 12:32pm

Just as a side note i'm watching SKY news (otherwise known as liberal central) and they are laying on thick the way this past few days, even weeks, have been the worst in American history is laughable when they defended the terrorist blm and antifa riots that are still going on to this day and how they never laid those riots at the feet of any democrat.

That is not a Trump supportive point its an observation on the sickening double standards the media shows. They openly lie such as calling the Republican objection to the election results in congress as unprecedented. The Dems done the same thing in 2016 with Trump, in 2004 and 2000. And its not just about America. We are getting this on all sides about all topics.

The vaccine. We get hours of footage of people getting injected and being lauded for it. Why not cover the problems with the vaccine. I don't care how small they may be just let people know and let them make up their own mind.

RTE news refusing to show any coverage of the recent shooting or the racist calls for revenge and violence from the family of the guy that was put down. Reminds me of CNN doing the same thing, editing footage to push their agenda:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drn0Lg5gIRc

I've said before that years ago the news gave you the facts and allowed you to make up your own mind, but now they tell you what you should be thinking and if you disagree then you're the problem.

Mellor · 07-01-2021 12:47pm

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

The absolute hypocrisy of the media, calling BLM "peaceful protestors" and Trump supporters "rioters" and screeching for nearly 4 years about election fraud for Trump but say any fraud this time are "bogus claims". Really goes to show the f*cking state of the media today.

The majority of BLM were peaceful. But a subset used it as an excuse to riot and loot. Scotes bandwagon IG, as happens everywhere. we all seen videos of those people clashing with police.

I’m sure most people today turned up intending to protest outside peacefully. Genuinely think they did. But as soon as a group forced their way inside a government building it’s no longer peaceful.
The guys who turned up with premade petrol bombs were not peaceful. Two pipe bombs were allegedly discovered, if that’s true then we’re into domestic terrorism.

For me, I care more about real life actions, not labels in the media. And my biggest eye opener was how lax the police were at the capitol building initially vrs at BLM protests. I think that’s mainly as the national guard were called in for BLM. But the initial wave today was essentially let pass the secure line.

If guy was seen openly (and illegally) carrying a handgun while rioting at BLM, he’d probably be arrested on sight, or worse. Yet that’s what was happening today. It’s getting ridiculously out of hand, these people are miles in the wrong.

Mellor · 07-01-2021 1:17pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm not a Trump supporter but what has he done in the last week to warrant trying to oust him using the 25th Amendment?

The only think I can see is that he's crapped on about election fraud but he's been doing that for 6 months now.

Banging on about potential fraud prior to the ejection is raving, par for the course. Noting illegal afaik.

Since the ejection he has made numerous false claim on lines and the media. It’s somewhere between embarrassing and insane. The POTUS openly lying cannot be normal or ok.
He called a meeting with the military to discuss a potential coup. Seriously.
Encouraging Pence to delay certification, break the law, and send the votes back to th states. Pence can’t do that. Trumps grip on reality is slipping. Condoning the riots in DC (which led to his social media being suspended).

I haven’t always agreed with Trump. I’ve openly criticised his mistakes. But he won the 2016 election fair and square, he is the president.
But for the last 2 months, he’s increasingly looked unfit for office.

Cass wrote: »

There is a conspiracy theory about the Dems using the 25th to remove him because they "know the election is false and a big surprise is coming".

I’m no an expert on the 25th. But afaik it has to be instigated by the White house and Trumps own cabinet. The reports are that they have met to discuss it.

Cass · 07-01-2021 1:55pm

Mellor wrote: »

I’m no an expert on the 25th. But afaik it has to be instigated by the White house and Trumps own cabinet. The reports are that they have met to discuss it.

It does. I discussed this back when Trump was impeached the first time and how it would not pass the senate. Shortly after the election Pelosi held talks among the Democratic party about using the 25th and i said then it wouldn't happen as it requires the VP and Trump's cabinet to get done. It requires a letter/declaration by the VP signed by the majority of the cabinet/executive branch and presented to congress and the senate.

Even back then i was firm in my belief it would never happen, and frankly i still think its "too late" to happen now, but if it did and Pence decided to go that route, along with Trump firing basically everyone, and then coupled with recent events in Georgia the Dems would have an easy time of it.

If it were to happen it may not be done in time before the inauguration but as said above it would be the final middle finger to Trump the Dems so badly want to give him. Of course there would be no VP for the remaining time, but i doubt anyone would consider trying to fill that position and as a new VP would require senate approval and the Dems have that now.

tudderone · 07-01-2021 2:05pm

Mellor wrote: »

Banging on about potential fraud prior to the ejection is raving, par for the course. Noting illegal afaik.

Since the ejection he has made numerous false claim on lines and the media. It’s somewhere between embarrassing and insane. The POTUS openly lying cannot be normal or ok.
He called a meeting with the military to discuss a potential coup. Seriously.
Encouraging Pence to delay certification, break the law, and send the votes back to th states. Pence can’t do that. Trumps grip on reality is slipping. Condoning the riots in DC (which led to his social media being suspended).

I haven’t always agreed with Trump. I’ve openly criticised his mistakes. But he won the 2016 election fair and square, he is the president.
But for the last 2 months, he’s increasingly looked unfit for office.

I’m no an expert on the 25th. But afaik it has to be instigated by the White house and Trumps own cabinet. The reports are that they have met to discuss it.

The Dem's banged on long and hard over Russian interference when Trump beat that clinton creature in the last election, despite there being no evidence . It also amazes me how the media pounches on one of them, Trump having a fling with a porn star, two consenting adults, and yet let Biden away with all sorts of creepy carry on with very young people and kids, hair sniffing, letting kids touch him in a swimming pool etc. Maybe that will change when he finally gets into the oval office, but i won't hold my breath.

The media don't seem overly concerned with bidens son's carry on either, can you imagine the melt down there would have been if it was Trumps son doing dodgy deals in Ukraine will coked out of his skull ?

tudderone · 07-01-2021 2:25pm

Mary lou favorite to be the next Taoiseach, what you think ?

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/mary-lou-mcdonald-boylesports-taoiseach-19577122

Cass · 07-01-2021 2:28pm

Never happen.

Sinn Fein will never be able to get the majority so that she could become Taoiseach, but if by some miracle it did happen i'd hate to see it. I know i criticised FF and FG (although they're the one party now) but the alternative in my mind is a far cry from SF lead coalition or God forbid a SF majority.

They are far, FAR, from the nationalist party they once were and are doing more pandering to the radical left ideology and socialist type agenda than most others and that includes those that call themselves socialist.

Mellor · 07-01-2021 2:32pm

tudderone wrote: »

The Dem's banged on long and hard over Russian interference when Trump beat that clinton creature in the last election, despite there being no evidence.

They did. Also par for the course. Investigations are legal and should be encouraged. That’s how law works.
I don’t remember Obama making fraudulent claims about Russia however.

It also amazes me how the media pounches on one of them, Trump having a fling with a porn star, two consenting adults,

Clinton and Lewenski were also consenting adults. The issue was he lied about it.
Trump’s fling was a non-issue. Until he paid payments to cover it up, he did that before anyone knew about it. He felt it required cover-up.

The media don't seem overly concerned with bidens son's carry on either, can you imagine the melt down there would have been if it was Trumps son doing dodgy deals in Ukraine will coked out of his skull ?

Wasn’t he cleared of any crimes in relation to Ukraine? I’m honestly not across the details as he’s not the candidate. Same way I don’t know what Trump Jr does.
There nothing illegal about doing business with Russia. Trump has done well in Russia. As have many businessmen.

Tbh I fined the whole finger pointing thing strange. Immoral/illegal behaviour on one side doesn’t excuse the same on the other.
If a red senator is convicted sexual assault, scrambling to find a blue senator who did the same doesn’t make it ok.
The fact is they would both be scumbags.

BattleCorp · 07-01-2021 2:36pm

Cass wrote: »

Never happen.

Sinn Fein will never be able to get the majority so that she could become Taoiseach, but if by some miracle it did happen i'd hate to see it. I know i criticised FF and FG (although they're the one party now) but the alternative in my mind is a far cry from SF lead coalition or God forbid a SF majority.

They are far, FAR, from the nationalist party they once were and are doing more pandering to the radical left ideology and socialist type agenda than most others and that includes those that call themselves socialist.

She'll probably be Taoiseach at some stage. FF/FG keep shooting themselves in the feet and SF hoovers up disaffected voters. Not as a majority though, but I could see them being the largest party in a coalition government and that would probably lead to her being Taoiseach.

They'd only get elected once mind because they'd fcuk things up even more than FF/FG. They'll realise that the sh1t they are promising can't be delivered.

tudderone · 07-01-2021 2:38pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

She'll probably be Taoiseach at some stage. FF/FG keep shooting themselves in the feet and SF hoovers up disaffected voters. Not as a majority though, but I could see them being the largest party in a coalition government and that would probably lead to her being Taoiseach.

They'd only get elected once mind because they'd fcuk things up even more than FF/FG. They'll realise that the sh1t they are promising can't be delivered.

Since when has that bothered any of them ?

BattleCorp · 07-01-2021 2:38pm

Mellor wrote: »

Tbh I fined the whole finger pointing thing strange.

Trump is mad as a hatter but he didn't/doesn't get a fair crack of the whip from the media.

BattleCorp · 07-01-2021 2:39pm

tudderone wrote: »

Since when has that bothered any of them ?

It'll bother them when it comes time for them to be relected (after they have made a balls of running the country - and maybe wrecked the economy).

tudderone · 07-01-2021 2:42pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

It'll bother them when it comes time for them to be relected (after they have made a balls of running the country - and maybe wrecked the economy).

Yes but literally every party makes promises that are pure BS, and unachieveable.

tudderone · 07-01-2021 3:02pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'd a WhatsApp row with one of my woke cousins in America last night/this morning. They were spouting on about what was going on last night and when I asked what's the difference in this and what the BLM crowd are doing, she got thick and said they weren't remotely the same.

I agreed with her. The trump supporters aren't looting.

She's not talking to me now. ha ha.

I have a "Woke" niece, who if you have an opinion contrary to hers, gets thick and doesn't visit for 6 months. She is just out of college, you would imagine reasoned debate would be one of the first things you learn in college, but no its "Anyone who doesn't agree with me is a facist" mindset.

Mellor · 07-01-2021 3:06pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Trump is mad as a hatter but he didn't/doesn't get a fair crack of the whip from the media.

He probably doesn’t. There is no neutral media in the US. He also used the media bias to his advantage, or has done at times. Claiming it’s fake, lies, etc and those gullible enough or too lazy to research will just buy into it.
He has also been dealt an absolute bollox of a year with 2020 (I think any president gets slated this year).

But I judge him on his actions, not what the media says I should think about him. These 12 months, I think he has devolved from a poor president to somebody who has lost the run of himself. And I think this is the year that will define his presidency for the public.

Mellor · 07-01-2021 3:15pm

tudderone wrote: »

Yes but literally every party makes promises that are pure BS, and unachieveable.

Pretty much.
It’s standard campaigning now. Everywhere.
Obama didn’t achieve his goals.
Trump didn’t keep his promises.
Biden won’t manage it either.
Our lot are the same.

If a candidate campaigned based on what they actually would and could achieve. They probably lose in a land slide to some over promising spoofer.

Cass · 07-01-2021 11:24pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

She'll probably be Taoiseach at some stage.

I'll never see it in my lifetime.

FF/FG keep shooting themselves in the feet and SF hoovers up disaffected voters.

Look at the geneal election in Feb. last year. They knew the mindset of people and knew the anger at the two main parties. What did they do? They ran 42 candidates. In an election like this one they should have at elast doubled that number because in some constituencies they won by such a huge margin they could have easily got another TD elected and taken two seats or more. Instead they done one of two things:

Misread public opinion on other parties and wholly underestimated their ability/appeal.
Purposely did not run more candidates so as to remain in opposition where the promise of a socialist paradise can continue without the responsibility to have to act on it.

So its either incompetence or ignorance, neither are traits you want in power (although we ended up with it anyway).

Not as a majority though, but I could see them being the largest party in a coalition government and that would probably lead to her being Taoiseach.

I just don't see it.

They got 37 out of 42 seats they competed for. They could have ran more candidates but would need at least 6 to 10 seats in the next election and for ALL the other parties and independents to gain between 34 to 38 seats and then join in which would make for a disaster of a coalition government. Imagine the shouting in the room for every proposal and also making sure everyone is happy or at least on board for each important vote.

As it stands once FF make a decision they need only tell FG to support it and tell the cabbage to do as he is told.

They'd only get elected once mind because they'd fcuk things up even more than FF/FG. They'll realise that the sh1t they are promising can't be delivered.

Yup.

Rosahane · 07-01-2021 11:41pm

I (along with about 2000 others) decided to hassle “Brid Smith TD” on her Facebook page of the same name about her racist comments following the Blanchs shooting and followed up by questioning and commenting on her next couple of equally daft posts.

Her reaction was to block me from commenting on her page!

I discovered she has another page called “Brid Smith” where I asked her why she blocked me instead of debating... and guess what?

Yes, blocked from commenting again.

The same happened to a friend of mine so I’d guess it’s her way of ensuring that her supporters tiny minds don’t get troubled by any non ideological truths!

I’d reckon it’s standard practice with these people.

Actually, Trocaire also blocked me about a year ago from asking them what proportion of their aid goes to supporting oppressed Christians.

Free speech is a one way street!

Cass · 07-01-2021 11:42pm

Mellor wrote: »

He probably doesn’t. There is no neutral media in the US.

Correct, but with 6 of the 7 major news channels/corporations, and lets face it Fox is as good as gone that way too, actively sabotaging, perpetuating lies, and basically being the propaganda machine for the Democratic party you cannot say there is an evenness, to it either.

Same with the comments above about one bad behaviour on one side not canceling bad behaviour on the other side. Its completely true, but its not about the act, instead the narrative and way the media portray it.

Take the current capitol situation. All day on the news and radio i keep hearing the headline "Trump supporters overrun capitol building" and as the day has gone on it now read "Trump supporters attack capitol building leading to four dead". Then its hour after hour of how Trump done this, done that, failed to condemn it, failed to condemn it quick enough.

Nothing inherently untrue about it, but not one channel showed the same aggressive behaviour towards Democratic candidates who actually called directly for violence against those who do not agree with them or follow their dogma. In fact they covered for, explained away, and outright lied in an attempt deflect for them.

He also used the media bias to his advantage, or has done at times.

He done it incessantly.

Claiming it’s fake, lies, etc and those gullible enough or too lazy to research will just buy into it.

He ahs told some serious lies and really exploited his triumphs. However there were things he said that the press slated him for, that turned out to be true.

But I judge him on his actions, not what the media says I should think about him. These 12 months, I think he has devolved from a poor president to somebody who has lost the run of himself. And I think this is the year that will define his presidency for the public.

As you said above this year would be a train wreck for any President but for someone incapable of taking criticism and then blaming the media even if they were not entirely or a little to blame for it, it was never going to go well for him.

However he did do a lot in his first three years but the hatred for him was so great that they were ignored, played down or twisted into something there not. If the people calling for everyone to make peace, accept the election results and act nicely could have done the same when Trump won what could the country have achieved?

I mean Andrew Cuomo, Governor of New York, actually tried to work with four other state Governors to withhold the release of the vaccine until biden was sworn into office so Trump would not be credited for doing it.

tudderone · 07-01-2021 11:58pm

Cass wrote: »

I mean Andrew Cuomo, Governor of New York, actually tried to work with four other state Governors to withhold the release of the vaccine until biden was sworn into office so Trump would not be credited for doing it.

I believe the wealthy are leaving New York by the plane-load and taking their money with them. Florida is where they are heading. The dems and the left want to tax them heavily and they are bolting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPyUSU_kGg0

tudderone · 08-01-2021 12:00am

Rosahane wrote: »

I (along with about 2000 others) decided to hassle “Brid Smith TD” on her Facebook page of the same name about her racist comments following the Blanchs shooting and followed up by questioning and commenting on her next couple of equally daft posts.

Her reaction was to block me from commenting on her page!

I discovered she has another page called “Brid Smith” where I asked her why she blocked me instead of debating... and guess what?

Yes, blocked from commenting again.

The same happened to a friend of mine so I’d guess it’s her way of ensuring that her supporters tiny minds don’t get troubled by any non ideological truths!

I’d reckon it’s standard practice with these people.

Actually, Trocaire also blocked me about a year ago from asking them what proportion of their aid goes to supporting oppressed Christians.

Free speech is a one way street!

Yes i seen that. I also seen people who say they support Smith and voted for her previously, telling her to forget it next time. The likes of Smith and Rich boy, are people i could do without.

Cass · 08-01-2021 12:05am

Rosahane wrote: »

Free speech is a one way street!

Free speech is a myth.

Take the Irish constitution. We have so called free speech, but its limited to exclude the discussion of certain topics. Hence its not free speech, but limited speech.

My hatred for hate speech laws stems from this already limited speech, but instead of limiting what i can discuss they want to actively police it. IOW thought police like in Canada and the UK where an offensive post leads to a knock on the door.

I said this some time back, if they introduce hate speech laws it'll be a disaster.

tudderone · 08-01-2021 12:13am

Cass wrote: »

Free speech is a myth.

Take the Irish constitution. We have so called free speech, but its limited to exclude the discussion of certain topics. Hence its not free speech, but limited speech.

My hatred for hate speech laws stems from this already limited speech, but instead of limiting what i can discuss they want to actively police it. IOW thought police like in Canada and the UK where an offensive post leads to a knock on the door.

I said this some time back, if they introduce hate speech laws it'll be a disaster.

Its as good as in the bag, because hurt feeling, homophobia, sunshine and rainbow flags, and lets all be "progressive", big word that, you can hide a mountain behind it. They are brainwashing the kids in the schools already, i've heard it first hand.

Grizzly 45 · 08-01-2021 1:31am

tudderone wrote: »

I believe the wealthy are leaving New York by the plane-load and taking their money with them. Florida is where they are heading. The dems and the left want to tax them heavily and they are bolting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPyUSU_kGg0

Anyone sane has left NYC/NJ/CA a long time ago even before Covid. NYC is a busted flush under the leadership of those two oafs De Blasio and Cuomo.
Even hardcore New Yorkers are leaving and we are talking people as hard-bitten as Londoners in the Blitz.

You cant get into the city without 14 days quarantine in your hotel room. Enforced by law.

When you do get out, the streets are full of derelicts with drug and mental problems attacking all and sundry.

5th Ave,the pearl of America looks like a demilitarised war zone .Only buildings that survived the "peaceful demonstrations by th Burn Loot Murder crowd last Summer was Trump Tower and next door Gucci, because of the Secret Service details on them. Its graffitied with a big BLM road sign on the road, guarded by 24/7 NYPD under orders from dictator Cumo to prevent "vandalism" of this iconic sign. NYPD isn't happy about it. In fact, they are losing and not replacing officers at an alarming rate.

The museums and galleries are closed for the foreseeable future.
Restaurant row is gone, in fact, most restaurants are closing and going out of business.

The entire Broadway theatre subculture is gone. All the directors, stagehands, props, lighters, actors etc have gone to the four winds. Nothing is open in plays or theatres etc.

No one needs the office space anymore with remote working. And if they do need a meeting or have to come into the city. They rent a furnished and serviced office by the hour or day.

Real estate price on bespoke parts of NYC like Park ave or Central park is at cost prices, but no one wants them. Whats Cumo doing? Renting them and filling them, and the hotels with junkies, homeless and derelicts.

Taxes on business are outrageous and hence they are closing and leaving.
Not helped by that utter MELT Oscario Cortez and her utter radical ideas of the green new deal.She has cost NY millions by TWICE fuking up the deal of getting Amazon to move to NY So no wonder they are now like CA trying to imp[ose taxes on those fleeing this Socialist paradise of the Left coast.:mad:

Grizzly 45 · 08-01-2021 1:42am

tudderone wrote: »

I have a "Woke" niece, who if you have an opinion contrary to hers, gets thick and doesn't visit for 6 months. She is just out of college, you would imagine reasoned debate would be one of the first things you learn in college, but no its "Anyone who doesn't agree with me is a facist" mindset.

College is the LAST place you go for an "education" these days. Unless you consider there is a big demand for a junk degree in something like "medieval Lesbian tribal dancing" and an 80 thousand dollar course. Caused BTW by grants of all types. Indoctrination in white guilt, hating the system and radical ideals and sexual deviancy is what you get there.
Lot of cases you'd be better off sending your kid to trade school or setting them up in a business with that college money and getting them working. We have been sold the myth that working with your hands is somehow demeaning and done by uneducated clods in the West for too long.:(

tudderone · 08-01-2021 1:48am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Anyone sane has left NYC/NJ/CA a long time ago even before Covid.
Taxes on business are outrageous and hence they are closing and leaving.
Not helped by that utter MELT Oscario Cortez and her utter radical ideas of the green new deal.She has cost NY millions by TWICE fuking up the deal of getting Amazon to move to NY So no wonder they are now like CA trying to imp[ose taxes on those fleeing this Socialist paradise of the Left coast.:mad:

Funny you say that, i was talking to a lad in Wales on another (engineering) forum. It turns out he was from Los Angeles, he legged it 13 years ago and hasn't a good word for the place, much happier living in rural Wales. He was into building and shooting "Railguns", things you'd hardly recognise as a firearm at all.

Grizzly 45 · 08-01-2021 2:10am

Mellor wrote: »

Banging on about potential fraud prior to the ejection is raving, par for the course. Noting illegal afaik.

Except for t he was right. It did and has happened.

Since the ejection he has made numerous false claim on lines and the media. It’s somewhere between embarrassing and insane. The POTUS openly lying cannot be normal or ok.

He called a meeting with the military to discuss a potential coup. Seriously

.No! it was in a discussion with Gen Flynn who suggested it where ideas were being thrown about, and it was apparently a nonstarter...HOWEVER, rumour has it Trump is down in Texas in one of the military bases set up as a redoubt.Texas has something like half the US military forces on its soil? and could be possibly planning to use the insurrection act and declare martial law. I'd think this improbable as he would need the joint chiefs of staff to go along with this,and they have said pretty much leave us out of this.

Encouraging Pence to delay certification, break the law, and send the votes back to th states. Pence can’t do that.

Yes he could have as there is historical precedent for such to be done from Jefferson and I believe it has been done twice before.

Trumps grip on reality is slipping. Condoning the riots in DC (which led to his social media being suspended).

The social media suspension is just plain nastiness on Zuckerberg's part,and the fact that he is looking at an investigation into his monopoly of social media and sharp business practises by a Republican commission is telling.

Briefly your point why is Hunter Biden such a big deal? He is what the Russians call "Kompromat"[Compromised] This has to do with his lost laptops and all the dirt that is in them. dirt literally from his sexual exploits with underage family relatives on his Pornhub account to the entire dirty deal with Ukraine, and his dad getting a cut along with his creepy bankrupt uncle to keep his dodgy health insurance company afloat. as well as the Chinese. Simply put it is enough to cause undue embarrassment to his father as president and for Bejing or Moscow to be able to pull strings to make Biden dance to their tune.

It was a masterful bit of espionage, and the ultimate bit of Sun Tzu's art of war of defeating an enemy without going to war.

Cass · 08-01-2021 2:35am

tudderone wrote: »

Its as good as in the bag, because hurt feeling, homophobia, sunshine and rainbow flags, and lets all be "progressive", big word that, you can hide a mountain behind it. .

Not to be dismissive or somehow coming across as a dick, but leave all that aside for the minute.

Look at hate speech laws. They're designed to stop the spread of hateful speech that leads to hate based crime. The repeal of the current legislation, as is being discussed, and replaced with a whole new batch of laws would make the act of talking a violent crime. IOW speech would be treated the same as a physical act of violence.

There are so many problems with this.

First off what is hate speech. You cannot say its speech you don't agree with because we have the right to disagree. That much is enshrined in the constitution.

So its to ban hateful speech, as in offensive speech. Well being offended has never been a criminal act and what is offensive? What one person/group finds offensive others would not. Look at the most divisive man in the last four years, Trump. People love him and others hate him. There were calls for his murder in public and by so called celebrities. Were they arrested? No, and they shouldn't be because they have free speech rights, however much anyone else disagrees with them.

That leads onto the issue of gauging it. If someone speaks in a derogatory/hateful manner about a particular group/segment of society then it must be measured. What percentage of people need to be offended for it to be classed as offensive enough to enough of the population to be banned? 10%, 30%, 75%, 90%, 100%.

How would you measure such offense? If not enough people are offended does any type of vitriol stay up (or wherever its written) until it reaches the "magic number" or is it a one time shot at having it listed.

Then onto the actual important stuff.

Who decides? Are people going to be polled on all issues from all time to create a list? Seeing as how people are being offended by statues from 100+ years ago, straight people, white people, Santa, Fairy tale of New York, etc. and the list is ever growing and seemingly never ending what way will the "new" offensive material be legislated for? Will it be covered in a "one size fits all" type legislation which is the most dangerous type.

What would stakeholders in such legislative discussion look like? Will people from all sects of life be included or only those directed involved in "woke" issues be included?

Now onto the dangerous parts of such legislation.

Banning certain types of speech will not get rid of it. What it will do is drive such speech "underground". It'll find dark corners of darker forums where it will fester, breed, grow and eventually explode in real life actions. I said this before and also warned of the danger such legislation for the same reasons.

The best antidote for any speech someone finds offensive is to either ignore it or highlight it for the absurdity of what it is.

Want to know the funny/stupid part of this.

The advert ran at Christmas, by RTE, where a Garda arrested God for rape/sexual assault. Under the proposed hate speech laws that would fall foul of it. Its offensive and derogatory towards Christians (Ireland is approx 95% Christian) and insults their faith and beliefs. So our sinkhole of a national propaganda machine using tax payer money (under threat of fine/prosecution by legislation) should be fined and people prosecuted for that.

Its a dangerous and slippery slope and once we start down it there will be no stopping.

Amen........................ oh yeah, and awoman.

Munsterlad102 · 08-01-2021 12:15pm

Cass wrote: »

Free speech is a myth.

Take the Irish constitution. We have so called free speech, but its limited to exclude the discussion of certain topics. Hence its not free speech, but limited speech.

My hatred for hate speech laws stems from this already limited speech, but instead of limiting what i can discuss they want to actively police it. IOW thought police like in Canada and the UK where an offensive post leads to a knock on the door.

I said this some time back, if they introduce hate speech laws it'll be a disaster.

Exactly, not only are there clauses in the constitution about seditious and inciteful speech but all inalienable rights are subject to the “common good”. In other words, you can say what you want, unless the government says otherwise. So in effect, limited rights are worthless if they can be infringed on with the stroke of a pen.

tudderone · 08-01-2021 4:00pm

Cass wrote: »

Not to be dismissive or somehow coming across as a dick, but leave all that aside for the minute.

Look at hate speech laws. They're designed to stop the spread of hateful speech that leads to hate based crime. The repeal of the current legislation, as is being discussed, and replaced with a whole new batch of laws would make the act of talking a violent crime. IOW speech would be treated the same as a physical act of violence.

There are so many problems with this.

First off what is hate speech. You cannot say its speech you don't agree with because we have the right to disagree. That much is enshrined in the constitution.

So its to ban hateful speech, as in offensive speech. Well being offended has never been a criminal act and what is offensive? What one person/group finds offensive others would not. Look at the most divisive man in the last four years, Trump. People love him and others hate him. There were calls for his murder in public and by so called celebrities. Were they arrested? No, and they shouldn't be because they have free speech rights, however much anyone else disagrees with them.

That leads onto the issue of gauging it. If someone speaks in a derogatory/hateful manner about a particular group/segment of society then it must be measured. What percentage of people need to be offended for it to be classed as offensive enough to enough of the population to be banned? 10%, 30%, 75%, 90%, 100%.

How would you measure such offense? If not enough people are offended does any type of vitriol stay up (or wherever its written) until it reaches the "magic number" or is it a one time shot at having it listed.

Then onto the actual important stuff.

Who decides? Are people going to be polled on all issues from all time to create a list? Seeing as how people are being offended by statues from 100+ years ago, straight people, white people, Santa, Fairy tale of New York, etc. and the list is ever growing and seemingly never ending what way will the "new" offensive material be legislated for? Will it be covered in a "one size fits all" type legislation which is the most dangerous type.

What would stakeholders in such legislative discussion look like? Will people from all sects of life be included or only those directed involved in "woke" issues be included?

Now onto the dangerous parts of such legislation.

Banning certain types of speech will not get rid of it. What it will do is drive such speech "underground". It'll find dark corners of darker forums where it will fester, breed, grow and eventually explode in real life actions. I said this before and also warned of the danger such legislation for the same reasons.

The best antidote for any speech someone finds offensive is to either ignore it or highlight it for the absurdity of what it is.

Want to know the funny/stupid part of this.

The advert ran at Christmas, by RTE, where a Garda arrested God for rape/sexual assault. Under the proposed hate speech laws that would fall foul of it. Its offensive and derogatory towards Christians (Ireland is approx 95% Christian) and insults their faith and beliefs. So our sinkhole of a national propaganda machine using tax payer money (under threat of fine/prosecution by legislation) should be fined and people prosecuted for that.

Its a dangerous and slippery slope and once we start down it there will be no stopping.

Amen........................ oh yeah, and awoman.

Agree 100%. I have read and heard things that offend me, do i have a hissy-fit or a meltdown or run around to the garda station to fill in a hurt feelings report ? No of course not, but this is now the new normal. Its not just here, its in all of the western world. Uk police ringing people to tell them to "check their thinking" if they post something on twitter, is imho very dangerous. But its in Europe and America too. Anyone who disagrees , Laurence Fox, Dr Starkey, Ben Shapiro, John Cleese, Jordan Peterson all get "cancelled" or labelled as a racist/facist if they basically tell the truth, and no tv station or newspaper will touch them.

Grizzly 45 · 08-01-2021 4:29pm

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Exactly, not only are there clauses in the constitution about seditious and inciteful speech but all inalienable rights are subject to the “common good”. In other words, you can say what you want, unless the government says otherwise. So in effect, limited rights are worthless if they can be infringed on with the stroke of a pen.

Yet it contradicts itself in so much as an open critique of public figures and the govt is allowed as constitutional? Possibly is it the way it is expressed.IE if I say Leo Vard a Homosexula who enjoys and performs gay sex? All of which, is a true statement?
Compared to saying he is a raving f...gott who enjoys..getting it... etc "The statement while also true,is expressing to shock and offend the public. So the nuance proably has to be taken into this "hate speech" as well. But then as Cass said;Whats "offensive" to you mightn't be offensive to me at all. Who decides?

More worrisome would be like in the UK liking or agreeing with a FB comment or twitter getting a call from the thought police to "check your thinking!"

tudderone · 08-01-2021 5:45pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiqDZlAZygU

Grizzly 45 · 08-01-2021 10:21pm

tudderone · 08-01-2021 11:37pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I can see a poo-storm hitting America, and i mean a lot more than we've seen already. Its been a polarised country for decades now and its getting worse. If the dem's make a serious attempt to push for socialism and gun control, there could be a civil war. You only have to look at Virginia with the dems controlling the cities and republicans the rural areas, the dems pushing for gun control causing friction, it could all kick off.

tudderone · 08-01-2021 11:54pm

The south African strain of Covid is now here. It is even more virulent than the UK strain, i can see this thing getting a lot worse before it gets any better.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/health/covid19-ireland-south-africa-tonyholohan-19592009

Mellor · 09-01-2021 9:14am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Except for t he was right. It did and has happened.

There are likely a small amount of fraudulent votes in every election.
Since the election Trump has tried to claim he won states that he clearly lost. He has told outright lies. This is not of a democratic leader behaves. (Par for the course for certain parts of the world obviously).

.No! it was in a discussion with Gen Flynn who suggested it where ideas were being thrown about, and it was apparently a nonstarter...

Obvious it’s a non-starter. The military is not getting involved.
The fact it was even thrown about as an idea is the insanity.

Yes he could have as there is historical precedent for such to be done from Jefferson and I believe it has been done twice before.

No he couldn’t. Pence has confirmed that, as have constitutional law experts as Harvard and other law schools. His role is largely ceremonial. No such power exists in the constitution. Nor the Electoral Count Act 1887.

Jefferson didn’t reject any votes. He didn’t have the power then either. In his case an envelope containing votes for Georgia, was not sign as required. Some claimed this made them technically invalid, but Jefferson counted the votes anyway as they were the will of the people.
None of that in anyway gives Pence the power to reject the election.
They would only fly in a dictatorship.

The social media suspension is just plain nastiness on Zuckerberg's part,and the fact that he is looking at an investigation into his monopoly of social media and sharp business practises by a Republican commission is telling.

I don’t think Facebook or Twitter is obligated to give anyone a platform. Spreading lies seems to be the fastest way to get kicked off. As Alex Jones found out.

Briefly your point why is Hunter Biden such a big deal? He is what the Russians call "Kompromat"[Compromised] This has to do with his lost laptops and all the dirt that is in them. dirt literally from his sexual exploits with underage family relatives on his Pornhub account to the entire dirty deal with Ukraine,

The pornhub claim sounds like a stretch.
Literally anyone would be able to see it. They wouldn’t need his laptop or to be a Russian spy.

Sounds a little like a re-hash of the “Trump Pee-tape in the hands of the Russians” story.

yubabill · 09-01-2021 11:44am

Been following events in the US and keeping really busy in an effort to stay sane.

Looks like a powder keg over there right now and hysteria is setting in.

And the Twitter ban was a bit much, IMHO.

Somebody needs to calm things down - but WHO can?

Munsterlad102 · 09-01-2021 2:23pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yet it contradicts itself in so much as an open critique of public figures and the govt is allowed as constitutional? Possibly is it the way it is expressed.IE if I say Leo Vard a Homosexula who enjoys and performs gay sex? All of which, is a true statement?
Compared to saying he is a raving f...gott who enjoys..getting it... etc "The statement while also true,is expressing to shock and offend the public. So the nuance proably has to be taken into this "hate speech" as well. But then as Cass said;Whats "offensive" to you mightn't be offensive to me at all. Who decides?

More worrisome would be like in the UK liking or agreeing with a FB comment or twitter getting a call from the thought police to "check your thinking!"

Yeah, that's a very good point. Even disputing historical events or their accuracy or commonly held beliefs could be classed as hate speech, like saying 500 years ago that the Earth was not the center of the universe could be classed as hate speech.

Also let's not forget how this law will impact of people's freedom of religion. Most religions have a group of people who are viewed as "reprobate". Would a Christian saying gays are going to hell be hate speech? Would a Muslim saying anyone who eats pork should be killed and is going to hell be hate speech? Would a Jew saying Gentiles are animals and can be treated as such be hate speech? All examples just float an idea, rather than directly threaten anyone.

If the government is going to ban certain speech, then are they going to listen to ordinary people in their own homes and swoop in if they say a no-no word? That's more of a severe, dystopian scenario but possible nonetheless.

Ultimately is restricting people's speech worth it or should we ignore any such notion, I think the latter is the only viable path.

Cass · 09-01-2021 2:33pm

yubabill wrote: »

Been following events in the US and keeping really busy in an effort to stay sane.

Its hard to not get involved but i know what you mean.

Frankly i'm glad Trump is gone, for one reason. Hopefully no more endless news cycles on him. Its tiring.

Looks like a powder keg over there right now and hysteria is setting in.

Could get four years of payback now biden is in office.

And the Twitter ban was a bit much, IMHO.

They have gone to town, banning a lot o conservative pages.

Somebody needs to calm things down - but WHO can?

Well the Dems fake cries for unity didn't last long with the calls for his [Trump] arrest, impeachment, removal from office, etc. Less than two weeks before the inauguration.

So won't come from that side.

As for conservatives, doubt it. They won't want to flame their base any more than they already have.

yubabill · 09-01-2021 3:07pm

Cass wrote: »

They have gone to town, banning a lot o conservative pages.

Twitter has permanently banned Donald Trump, deleted all his tweets and activity. He's also blocked on FB and Instagram.

Trump moved to Parler and Google immediately removed it from their app store for Android phones, apple is threatening to remove Parler from their app store unless they agree to moderate it per Apple (so it'll be gone there soon).

It's being called The Purge, that many were anticipating, Tim Pool reckons he'll be gone from Youtube soon and he's centre-left politically, but supported Trump because of troop withdrawals.

Cass · 09-01-2021 3:30pm

yubabill wrote: »

It's being called The Purge, that many were anticipating, .

They have their Democrat buddies in the white house, congress and now senate to support any action they take. So why not!.

Cass · 09-01-2021 3:32pm

Had to laugh when someone stuck up a picture of the guys that raided capital building and said:

"We [America] spend $750 Billion per year on defense and the capital was taken in two hours by the cast of Duck Dynasty and some guy wearing a Chewbacca onesie".

Grizzly 45 · 09-01-2021 4:12pm

Getting scary over there now. I lived over there thru the Clinton dictatorship and the crime bill of 1994,Waco and Ruby ridge, with trepidation,but at least there was a viable block in Congress on the Republican side

What is happening now over there is starting to fill me with dread,as there really is now ZERO forms of opposition in the system to the Democrats for at least another two years, with both houses Blue and the White house the same and already people are talking about a night of the long knives being pulled on those Republicans who supported Trump, with them being suspended and blocked on social media. Removing Parler from Google and Apple is just showing how much intimidation is going on by big tech
Invoking the 25th will now only aggravate this even further if they insist on removing Trump, and I can really see something kick off if they push this further.

tudderone · 09-01-2021 4:27pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Getting scary over there now. I lived over there thru the Clinton dictatorship and the crime bill of 1994,Waco and Ruby ridge, with trepidation,but at least there was a viable block in Congress on the Republican side

What is happening now over there is starting to fill me with dread,as there really is now ZERO forms of opposition in the system to the Democrats for at least another two years, with both houses Blue and the White house the same and already people are talking about a night of the long knives being pulled on those Republicans who supported Trump, with them being suspended and blocked on social media. Removing Parler from Google and Apple is just showing how much intimidation is going on by big tech
Invoking the 25th will now only aggravate this even further if they insist on removing Trump, and I can really see something kick off if they push this further.

I would tend to agree, especially with a lot of people literally armed to the teeth and being told the commies are coming for your guns and money. Both sides have gone to the extremes now the left with BLM and Antifa, and the right storming the white house etc.

Cass · 09-01-2021 8:13pm

yubabill wrote: »

Twitter has permanently banned Donald Trump, ..........

137676736_3713555488725281_3031192716973462234_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=QnwVuPvbJTIAX90PQUV&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=dd2041bc553b295efc2d6a8341e6f6ac&oe=60211CD6

Cass · 09-01-2021 8:45pm

This is more of the same ould shi*e.

The Irish, in their never ending pitch to be seen as Democrats, latch onto any semblance of being an extension of that party. Irish news media are telling the story of an Irish guy who works at CNN and was on scene during the capital incident. The self ingratiating comments make the story about the reporter and not the actual story which most reporters, at least those few with integrity, would have told you is not actual reporting.

The other part of this is his previous experience was fact checking and researching background information, including on social media, for CNN. Might not want to give up the day job son.

Cass · 09-01-2021 8:47pm

On a side note, try search for ANY video, and there were hundreds if not thousands, of when cnn lied, manipulated and edited footage over the past 30 years. All the videos, and i've watched a good many of them over the years, are now gone.

There is a serious "clean up" being done.

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