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Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

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    #1472
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Nope. If you go for a 4kwp system, the battery is free.

    If you go over the 2kwp with the grant scheme, you only get the subsidy for the additional 2kwp if you install a battery. So basically the subsidy for the battery is 2kwp * €700 per kwp + €1000 grant for the battery, so €2400 additional subsidy

    A 2.4kWh battery is about €1200 incl VAT, the additional cost of a hybrid inverter (over a standard inverter) is about €900 incl VAT and the install cost of the battery is two hundred quid max, so basically a small battery is completely free :D


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    #1473
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    unkel wrote: »
    Nope. If you go for a 4kwp system, the battery is free.

    If you go over the 2kwp with the grant scheme, you only get the subsidy for the additional 2kwp if you install a battery. So basically the subsidy for the battery is 2kwp * €700 per kwp + €1000 grant for the battery, so €2400 additional subsidy

    A 2.4kWh battery is about €1200 incl VAT, the additional cost of a hybrid inverter (over a standard inverter) is about €900 incl VAT and the install cost of the battery is two hundred quid max, so basically a small battery is completely free :D


    We've had this discussion before unkel. The battery isnt free. You cant say you have a free battery unless you are willing to say you have very expensive panels as you cant double count the grant against the battery and the panels!

    If it was free you'd have done it already! :)


    Your prices are also direct buy prices, not the prices that you will get quoted by an SEAI registered installer, which you need to use to draw the grant.


    I think you are misleading people with the "battery is free" angle.


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    #1474
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Some installers quote very reasonable parts prices in their SEAI grant quotes. But I agree, a lot of them rip you off. If I had no solar at all when the subsidy system came in, I would have gone for a large system with small battery under the SEAI scheme. From a decent installer like save me money wind and solar who knows what they are at and won't rip you off. The subsidy scheme itself is extremely generous.

    As I already had solar PV, going with the grant scheme did not make financial sense for me unfortunately :)


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    #1475
    thos
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭thos


    ch750536 wrote: »
    What was the quote on that system?
    I paid €10,500 inc VAT for 16 panels 5.2kw array, 5.6kw battery, 5kw hybrid inverter.
    Coltrane wrote: »
    @ Thos, I tried unsuccessfully to get my NIBE heat pump/UFH to soak up some of my solar-PV surplus. My HP is a NIBE2040/VVM320. NIBE sells a dedicated accessory, their EME10, which is supposed to allow you to both heat your hot water and house from PV-surplus. I expected the large cyclinder and UFH to be good capacitors.

    But the accessory doesn’t work. It consumes only a few hundred Watts (measured using my Smappee), presumably on the heating element in the cylinder, no matter how large the surplus (I also have a 5.2kW PV array). NIBE offered a refund but I’m frustrated because had I known I might’ve bought a different brand of heat pump. Wish you better luck with yours.
    It's unfortunate if these systems aren't going to work well together alright. Daikin don't seem to have done one yet, and didn't know much about it, which has me nervous. The unit needs some firmware updates too before I can add this LAN adapter, so doesn't sound like a DIY job either.
    I also have a Zappi, with hub. I’ve found the hub/app useful only for upgrading the Zappi’s firmware. I’ve no battery and so haven’t encountered your issue with conflict between car and battery. In general I find the Zappi great despite its high price. Lovely to drive home this afternoon, plug in at about 17:00 and still pick up 3kWs from Eco+.
    Hub arrived yesterday and Zappi firmware updated. Previously the Zappi was only charging at 7A overnight, so that is fixed now.
    So far unimpressed with the app alright, I wanted the charge history and it's not returning much, I'll give it a day to see if it needs to build the history, but a bit clunky so far.


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    #1476
    thos
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭thos


    34kwh generated yesterday, 17kwh exported. Battery charged by 10.30.
    After getting the Zappi fixed, I managed to get about 1.5hrs on Eco+, which gave me 5kwh in the car, first time and it felt pretty cool!

    My panels are just off south facing, 160degrees. On a clear day like yesterday they are generating 1kw from 7.30am, but are typically back down to 1kw by 6pm. The battery is currently getting me through to midnight but I have some off west facing, 250degrees roof space to the rear, which seems like a good bet next to help fill some of those evening hours.

    How would my 5kw inverter work here? If I'm adding more panels, but at different orientation, I'm assuming the peak generated wouldn't really change? How do the ESB determine your max generation, if I have 6-7kw of panels in total, but still only a 5kw inverter, I'm assuming the inverter is the determining factor?


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    #1477
    Stefs_42
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Stefs_42


    thos wrote: »
    34kwh generated yesterday, 17kwh exported. Battery charged by 10.30.
    After getting the Zappi fixed, I managed to get about 1.5hrs on Eco+, which gave me 5kwh in the car, first time and it felt pretty cool!

    My panels are just off south facing, 160degrees. On a clear day like yesterday they are generating 1kw from 7.30am, but are typically back down to 1kw by 6pm. The battery is currently getting me through to midnight but I have some off west facing, 250degrees roof space to the rear, which seems like a good bet next to help fill some of those evening hours.

    How would my 5kw inverter work here? If I'm adding more panels, but at different orientation, I'm assuming the peak generated wouldn't really change? How do the ESB determine your max generation, if I have 6-7kw of panels in total, but still only a 5kw inverter, I'm assuming the inverter is the determining factor?

    I would love to know that too from tech heads. If im adding more panels to an existing inverter. is the surplus of generated power not going to fry my inverter? or inverter needs to be swapped out for more powerful one?


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    #1478
    Evd-Burner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭Evd-Burner


    Stefs_42 wrote: »
    I would love to know that too from tech heads. If im adding more panels to an existing inverter. is the surplus of generated power not going to fry my inverter? or inverter needs to be swapped out for more powerful one?

    The spec-sheet for the inverter should list the maximum DC input. As long as you don't go over that it should be fine.


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    #1479
    quentingargan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    Stefs_42 wrote: »
    I would love to know that too from tech heads. If im adding more panels to an existing inverter. is the surplus of generated power not going to fry my inverter? or inverter needs to be swapped out for more powerful one?
    It depends on your inverter, but for most inverters there are two MPPT channels for different orientations. Generally the absolute max is 600V which is 13 panels, but you would need to check data sheet of both the panel and the inverter. Add 15% to open circuit voltage per panel to allow for cooling.

    You also generally need a minimimum of 4 panels on the second orientation to fire up the inverter.

    If you have 14 panels already, they are probably 7 + 7. You could take one of these on optimisers with the second orientation.

    Lastly, if you put additional panels on a small second inverter, say a 1kw mini, the battery inverter will usually treat this second inverter the same as if it had more capacity itself.

    As far as ESB is concerned, you can have as many panels as you like. It is the inverter that counts.

    Lastly, inverters have a max DC total input and max input per string. Again, check the data sheet


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    #1480
    AidenL
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭AidenL


    quentingargan wrote: »
    It depends on your inverter, but for most inverters there are two MPPT channels for different orientations. Generally the absolute max is 600V which is 13 panels, but you would need to check data sheet of both the panel and the inverter. Add 15% to open circuit voltage per panel to allow for cooling.

    You also generally need a minimimum of 4 panels on the second orientation to fire up the inverter.

    If you have 14 panels already, they are probably 7 + 7. You could take one of these on optimisers with the second orientation.

    Lastly, if you put additional panels on a small second inverter, say a 1kw mini, the battery inverter will usually treat this second inverter the same as if it had more capacity itself.

    As far as ESB is concerned, you can have as many panels as you like. It is the inverter that counts.

    Lastly, inverters have a max DC total input and max input per string. Again, check the data sheet
    I thought the ESB only allowed 6kw maximum?


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    #1481
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    AidenL wrote: »
    quentingargan wrote: »
    It depends on your inverter, but for most inverters there are two MPPT channels for different orientations. Generally the absolute max is 600V which is 13 panels, but you would need to check data sheet of both the panel and the inverter. Add 15% to open circuit voltage per panel to allow for cooling.

    You also generally need a minimimum of 4 panels on the second orientation to fire up the inverter.

    If you have 14 panels already, they are probably 7 + 7. You could take one of these on optimisers with the second orientation.

    Lastly, if you put additional panels on a small second inverter, say a 1kw mini, the battery inverter will usually treat this second inverter the same as if it had more capacity itself.

    As far as ESB is concerned, you can have as many panels as you like. It is the inverter that counts.

    Lastly, inverters have a max DC total input and max input per string. Again, check the data sheet
    I thought the ESB only allowed 6kw maximum?
    Ac though, they prob dint care about what level of DC you put in to your inverter as long as the inverter is limited to 6kw.

    Was thinking in a similar vein myself, about putting another 2 strings on a different side of the house to better catch late evening generation.

    Was musing about how it could be done, was even thinking of a switchable array that was time based or something.


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    #1482
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    If you can put identical strings on each face of the roof you don't need any switching, you can just connect them in parallel to the same inverter input.
    A series diode on the end of each string would be advisable however.


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    #1483
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    Was thinking in a similar vein myself, about putting another 2 strings on a different side of the house to better catch late evening generation.

    Was musing about how it could be done, was even thinking of a switchable array that was time based or something.

    How many strings (and what direction facing) have you now and how many strings can your inverter handle? Many 5-6kW inverters have 2, 3 or even 4 input strings these days


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    #1484
    quentingargan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    air wrote: »
    If you can put identical strings on each face of the roof you don't need any switching, you can just connect them in parallel to the same inverter input.
    A series diode on the end of each string would be advisable however.
    Just be careful with parallelling strings. Many MPPT inputs on smaller inverters have a max rating of 10 amps which is one string.


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    #1485
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    quentingargan wrote: »
    Just be careful with parallelling strings. Many MPPT inputs on smaller inverters have a max rating of 10 amps which is one string.

    And you probably can't use the standard solar cable either but have to use thicker ones?


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    #1486
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    gally74 wrote: »
    Like every thing in ireland, where are the consequences for the council here......

    The council don’t make the regulations, that’s the department of environment. The council only enforce them.


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    #1487
    gally74
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭gally74


    kceire wrote: »
    The council don’t make the regulations, that’s the department of environment. The council only enforce them.

    Something like common sense rather than take the person to court ???


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    #1488
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    These are my current prices

    13 panels(4.2kw) = €7378 - €1400 = €5,978
    13 panels(4.2kw) + Battery(2.8kWh) = €10,215 - €3,800 = €6,415
    13 panles(4.2kw) + Battery(6.3kWh) = €11,918 - €3,800 = €8,118

    I have pricing for bigger system but way over budget


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    #1489
    beertons
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 23,056 ✭✭✭✭beertons


    Can you pm me who those are with?


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    #1490
    pale rider
    Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭pale rider


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    These are my current prices

    13 panels(4.2kw) = €7378 - €1400 = €5,978
    13 panels(4.2kw) + Battery(2.8kWh) = €10,215 - €3,800 = €6,415
    13 panles(4.2kw) + Battery(6.3kWh) = €11,918 - €3,800 = €8,118

    I have pricing for bigger system but way over budget

    I’m finding that on a reasonably good day I am almost fully charging my 6 kw odd battery resulting in grid free power in the evenings and overnight, I have a diverter which adds hot water.

    I last used the grid about a week back.

    For me the larger battery makes sense, on good days the array is showing over 4kw production.

    Your quotes can be beaten with negotiation, don’t accept the first number which is given to everybody.

    choose a company that has a history and a decent set of accounts, www.cro.ie is an important check, this is a lot of money with new technology and a solid company history suggests they will be around in a few years if you need them and not fold up when or if the grant is pulled.

    I’m curious why people who have quotes have not moved forward, a lot of posters have made enquiries but not yet pulled the trigger, is it a cost issue ?


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    #1491
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    gally74 wrote: »
    Something like common sense rather than take the person to court ???

    Their hands are tied. Someone made the complaint so they are legally obligated to follow the same process if you or me complained about a small extension on a small house or an additional storey on an apartment block.

    Once the member of public made the complaint, they had to follow due course. They are not legislated to relax the laws or regulations without the departments guidance. I feel your gripe but your anger is directed at the wrong group of public servants.

    You need to lobby the civil servants that create these rules and regulations in the department.


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    #1492
    reni10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭reni10


    pale rider wrote: »
    I’m finding that on a reasonably good day I am almost fully charging my 6 kw odd battery resulting in grid free power in the evenings and overnight, I have a diverter which adds hot water.

    I last used the grid about a week back.

    For me the larger battery makes sense, on good days the array is showing over 4kw production.

    Your quotes can be beaten with negotiation, don’t accept the first number which is given to everybody.

    choose a company that has a history and a decent set of accounts, www.cro.ie is an important check, this is a lot of money with new technology and a solid company history suggests they will be around in a few years if you need them and not fold up when or if the grant is pulled.

    I’m curious why people who have quotes have not moved forward, a lot of posters have made enquiries but not yet pulled the trigger, is it a cost issue ?

    Just wondering what your base load in watts is?

    Mine is nearly always under 300w so with sizing the battery I need to have it sized so that in the summer I will be grid free with the battery fully charged during the day and then in the winter being able to get at least some coverage from the battery when the sun goes down.


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    #1493
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,811 ✭✭✭Alkers


    pale rider wrote: »
    I’m finding that on a reasonably good day I am almost fully charging my 6 kw odd battery resulting in grid free power in the evenings and overnight, I have a diverter which adds hot water.

    I last used the grid about a week back.

    For me the larger battery makes sense, on good days the array is showing over 4kw production.

    That extra €2,000 pays for a lot of electricity, especially at night rate!


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    #1494
    pale rider
    Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭pale rider


    Alkers wrote: »

    That extra €2,000 pays for a lot of electricity, especially at night rate!

    It does....up to some point in the future and then the solar will overtake but it is missing the point of installing a PV system with a decent battery.

    I'm playing with the system to extract the best from it without recourse to grid, I'm also saving on the vat costs and carbon charges none of which are likely to be reducing, Energia have increased electricity costs three times in the last 18 months.

    It's not for everyone, it might not be for me either but time will tell, for now it's giving me between €5 - €7 a day in savings, a return you won't get from a Bank.

    My base load is around 300w.


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    #1495
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    pale rider wrote: »
    It does....up to some point in the future and then the solar will overtake but it is missing the point of installing a PV system with a decent battery.

    I'm playing with the system to extract the best from it without recourse to grid, I'm also saving on the vat costs and carbon charges none of which are likely to be reducing, Energia have increased electricity costs three times in the last 18 months.

    It's not for everyone, it might not be for me either but time will tell, for now it's giving me between €5 - €7 a day in savings, a return you won't get from a Bank.

    My base load is around 300w.


    The problem I have with the batteries is they are horrendously overpriced at this time......


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    #1496
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    pale rider wrote: »
    it's giving me between €5 - €7 a day in savings

    How did you get those figures?


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    #1497
    pale rider
    Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭pale rider


    unkel wrote: »
    How did you get those figures?


    I've done my math based on my usage cost from bills versus no grid use and monitoring the meter, I added vat/carbon tax to unit costs not purchased to arrive at my average daily savings, weather has been good for all but one or two days since install.


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    #1498
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,262 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    That's a hell of a saving if calculated correctly


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    #1499
    Agent_47
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Agent_47


    pale rider wrote: »

    I’m curious why people who have quotes have not moved forward, a lot of posters have made enquiries but not yet pulled the trigger, is it a cost issue ?

    Cost, component specification and information but mostly the cloak and dagger approach of the Firm providing the supply and fit. Some companies operate on a no names basis, there are no people profiles on websites, names on quotes etc. That's a real turn off. When it is installed and you have a problem, who can you call and look for....


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    #1500
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    pale rider wrote: »
    I've done my math based on my usage cost from bills versus no grid use and monitoring the meter, I added vat/carbon tax to unit costs not purchased to arrive at my average daily savings, weather has been good for all but one or two days since install.

    How much electricity do you use? 5-7 Euro per night is even more than I burn up and I’m charging a car with it....


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    #1501
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    pale rider wrote: »
    I've done my math based on my usage cost from bills versus no grid use and monitoring the meter, I added vat/carbon tax to unit costs not purchased to arrive at my average daily savings, weather has been good for all but one or two days since install.

    Sounds extremely optimistic if I'm honest. A 4kwp system is producing about 20kWh per day on relatively good days like the last few days

    If you use all of this for daytime consumption (that you could not have used night rate electricity for) and nothing goes to heat your water and nothing goes back to the grid, your saving is 20 kWh * 18c (unit price) = €3.60

    In practice a lot of electricity would have gone to the grid even with a 6kWh battery. And you said you also use immersion? That's only worth 5c (unit price)

    With your system you'd do very well to save €2 per day on a good day


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