Poppy

Disgruntled Badger · 11-11-2018 2:29am

Wear the poppy with pride for the 200k Irishmen that fought for this country.

11-11-2018 2:35am

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well if that isn't the understatement of the century I don't know what is. Incidentally it's likely to get worse in Catalonia before it gets better.

I know its sounds a tad simplistic but you know its true. If Madrid hadn't acted in the stupid way that it did, a 'No' vote may have been returned in the 2017 referendum, since a number of polls indicated such an outcome.

votecounts · 11-11-2018 2:40am

Disgruntled Badger wrote: »

Wear the poppy with pride for the 200k Irishmen that fought for this country.

How many Irish people were murdered at the Hands of British scum.
No proper Irish person would ever wear a poppy just west brits looking to be the queens lapdog

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2018 2:59am

votecounts wrote: »

How many Irish people were murdered at the Hands of British scum.
No proper Irish person would ever wear a poppy just west brits looking to be the queens lapdog

How many British people were pointlessly sent to their deaths by criminally inept/unconcerned generals plucked from the elite classes, may be a question the British soul might ask itself one day.

Not while we all engage in the poppy mist though. :rolleyes:

Disgruntled Badger · 11-11-2018 3:00am

How many Irish people were murdered at the Hands of British scum.
No proper Irish person would ever wear a poppy just west brits looking to be the queens lapdog[/quote]

How many? I don't think there is a known figure. Of course likely they were executed by Irishmen so the number is probably quite negligible. I wonder how long the IRA would have held out if the Allied armies of WW1 or WW2 had been defeated?

Junkyard Tom · 11-11-2018 4:47am

As we're touching on the subject of WWI I'm, personally, completely spellbound by the work Peter Jackson has carried out on WWI footage.

The silent black-and-white film of WWI gave its documentation a sort of unworldly feel -- as if it could have been captured many centuries ago in a forgotten time -- that put it at a distance from the viewer

The colourisation, adding of speech, and sound effects brings that old WWI footage to life like a
magic paint brush and allows us to identify more closely with the soldiers. I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished film.

Spook_ie · 11-11-2018 7:29am

joe40 wrote: »

Do the German government commemorate the millions of German soldiers who died in ww1. Obviously ww2 is something thing they do not wish to celebrate in anyway, but ww1 was just a war between empires.
The poppy supports a British military establishment that have committed plenty of atrocities. I am not a sinn fein supporter but I would hate to see the poppy take hold in Ireland, or become the norm.
Commerations tomorrow are one thing but this poppy nonsense for a few weeks is ridiculous

Yes they do, they remember Volkstrauertag or Peoples Day of Mourning, this year it will be on Nov 18th. Do they have poppy day, no but Merkel did lay a wreath on Saturday at a WW1 cemetery along with Macron, not sure if she'll be doing anything actually at 11th hour of 11th day of 11th month

Spook_ie · 11-11-2018 7:34am

joe40 wrote: »

This discussion is about the poppy. The actions of the IRA are irrelevant.

Unless you were in Enniskillen in 1987.

Spook_ie · 11-11-2018 8:11am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not as big a mistake as saying she'd wear the British poppy. Spectacular stupidity there.

In fairness, it's not like any of the apologists for the British Empire here are "moving on". You all seem decidedly "enraged" at the temerity of the Irish to not accept this pathetic attempt to justify centuries of British imperialist aggression against us Irish and many others that the poppy embodies. Your imperialist dead, your imperialist heroes. No glorification for them here.

Hardly, casualty figures for WW1
British Empire between 950,000 and 1,100,000
Total of the allies inc BE between 5,186,854 and 6,433,692

Central Powers between 3,386,290 and 4,390,544

Wonder why Tayyip Erdoga's there if it's just some imperialist celebration

Spook_ie · 11-11-2018 8:13am

klaaaz wrote: »

Dublin ain't like anywhere in Kent. Dublin is part of an independent country free from British rule just like France is. Unfortunately, there are northern areas on this island still under British rule, those who have a deep affection for the British armed forces endorse the hundreds of murders of innocent Irish people through the purchase of the British poppy as the poppy funds the British soldiers who committed those murders.

Actually I think the UK government and MoD fund soldiers etc. But let's not quibble over details

Odhinn · 11-11-2018 9:27am

Folkstonian wrote: »

Is everything in your world so black and white?

Is the 21 year old lad who flew a spitfire in the Battle of Britain a ‘thug’ because he did so in a British uniform?
Or the woman who dropped into occupied France as an agent of the SOE? Is she a ‘thug’?
How about the men who fought the taliban in Helmand province? Were they ‘thugs’?
Or the 19 year old conscript who died in the mud at Passchendaele? A ‘thug’ too?

I am capable of acknowledging that the British armed forces have done both right and wrong, good and bad, shameful things and heroic acts in their history. I don’t think you are though.

You are a shock merchant, I’m sure of it,

...the vast majority being 'wrong', 'bad'and 'shameful'.

11-11-2018 9:33am

Spook_ie wrote: »

Hardly, casualty figures for WW1
British Empire between 950,000 and 1,100,000
Total of the allies inc BE between 5,186,854 and 6,433,692

Central Powers between 3,386,290 and 4,390,544

Wonder why Tayyip Erdoga's there if it's just some imperialist celebration

First, you can be absolutely sure Erdoğan isn't wearing the British poppy. Given that not even the French wear that British symbol, it would be odd of a defeated country to do so. Second, that red British poppy is the RBL's symbol and they are explicit that it “is worn to commemorate the sacrifices of our Armed Forces and to show support to those still serving today and their loved ones”. In other words, it's fantasy land when people wear the RBL red poppy and make up their own meaning for it, denying what it commemorates: all the British Armed Forces, be they in Wexford in 1798 or Armagh in 1982, or South Africa in 1900 or any of the thugs who fought in the other colonial wars of the British.

Anyway, I'm sure our British nationalists would be very accepting if somebody wore the Nazi Swastika because, for them, it's a personal reminder of the futility of war and nobody has a right to impose a meaning on it? Yes, that's about the stupidity level of denial here about what the British poppy actually commemorates.

whisky_galore · 11-11-2018 9:55am

Wear one. Don't wear one. Whatever.

I can 'remember' things and events without advertising. Same reason I wouldnt wear an Easter Lily or any other accessory.

RandomName2 · 11-11-2018 9:59am

Spook_ie wrote: »

Wonder why Tayyip Erdoga's there if it's just some imperialist celebration

Bringing attention to Turkey's Ottoman inheritance is something that is particularly close to Erdogan's heart.

mattser · 11-11-2018 11:40am

Folkstonian wrote: »

Is everything in your world so black and white?

Is the 21 year old lad who flew a spitfire in the Battle of Britain a ‘thug’ because he did so in a British uniform?
Or the woman who dropped into occupied France as an agent of the SOE? Is she a ‘thug’?
How about the men who fought the taliban in Helmand province? Were they ‘thugs’?
Or the 19 year old conscript who died in the mud at Passchendaele? A ‘thug’ too?

I am capable of acknowledging that the British armed forces have done both right and wrong, good and bad, shameful things and heroic acts in their history. I don’t think you are though.

You are a shock merchant, I’m sure of it,

See what I mean ? There are a handful of neandarthals left behind, who trawl the internet all day every day for the cause.

markodaly · 11-11-2018 11:43am

Odhinn wrote: »

...the vast majority being 'wrong', 'bad'and 'shameful'.

Yet you converse in its tongue and profit from it. Go figure. :P

markodaly · 11-11-2018 11:46am

markodaly · 11-11-2018 11:47am

markodaly · 11-11-2018 11:51am

Danzy · 11-11-2018 11:53am

The reality is most people here could care less about WW1 or those who fought in it. It isn't an active disregard just something not seen as relevant by most.

The evidence for that is born out in the number of commemorations and the size of the crowds.

It is a niche event, for right or wrong it always will be. The age profiles of people involved suggest in another decade it will be confined to a handful.

The debate about wearing the Poppy is a moot point as to see one person in the last few weeks is unusual.

Is it right or wrong to wear it is not a real debate when most people will never bother.

Graces7 · 11-11-2018 12:01pm

Danzy wrote: »

The reality is most people here could care less about WW1 or those who fought in it. It isn't an active disregard just something not seen as relevant by most.

The evidence for that is born out in the number of commemorations and the size of the crowds.

It is a niche event, for right or wrong it always will be. The age profiles of people involved suggest in another decade it will be confined to a handful.

The debate about wearing the Poppy is a moot point as to see one person in the last few weeks is unusual.

Is it right or wrong to wear it is not a real debate when most people will never bother.

Shame on them then.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2018 12:02pm

Danzy wrote: »

The reality is most people here could care less about WW1 or those who fought in it. It isn't an active disregard just something not seen as relevant by most.

The evidence for that is born out in the number of commemorations and the size of the crowds.

It is a niche event, for right or wrong it always will be. The age profiles of people involved suggest in another decade it will be confined to a handful.

The debate about wearing the Poppy is a moot point as to see one person in the last few weeks is unusual.

Is it right or wrong to wear it is not a real debate when most people will never bother.

I am delighted that in the 100th year that has been no significant uptake in the acceptance of it here.
It will die out over the next hundred as even the British forget about it.

Danzy · 11-11-2018 12:03pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Shame on them then.

Why, honest question?

Or is it the few who do attend commemorations for it. It's their thing, I don't agree with it or see the point.

Fann Linn · 11-11-2018 12:04pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Shame on them then.

No Grace, I just don't feel like commemorating Robert Nairac or the UDR.

Mookie Blaylock · 11-11-2018 12:04pm

2 minutes silence beautifully observed....makes my heart glad

Fann Linn · 11-11-2018 12:09pm

Corbyn in his bus conductors coat.

corner of hells · 11-11-2018 12:23pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Really? I've been quite amazed by the awakening of the latent Fenian sentiment of the vast majority of the Irish population in the last couple of years.

The affable economist David McWilliams (who is married to a northern Protestant) said recently that his 'inner Provo' was awoken by the behaviour of our bothersome neighbour.

Oh and Irish Republicanism is on the rise in young people according to the polls. No, on the contrary, you pro-empire types are becoming an ever-decreasing oddity.

I'd say lots of things amaze you.

Spook_ie · 11-11-2018 12:25pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

First, you can be absolutely sure Erdoğan isn't wearing the British poppy. Given that not even the French wear that British symbol, it would be odd of a defeated country to do so. Second, that red British poppy is the RBL's symbol and they are explicit that it “is worn to commemorate the sacrifices of our Armed Forces and to show support to those still serving today and their loved ones”. In other words, it's fantasy land when people wear the RBL red poppy and make up their own meaning for it, denying what it commemorates: all the British Armed Forces, be they in Wexford in 1798 or Armagh in 1982, or South Africa in 1900 or any of the thugs who fought in the other colonial wars of the British.

Anyway, I'm sure our British nationalists would be very accepting if somebody wore the Nazi Swastika because, for them, it's a personal reminder of the futility of war and nobody has a right to impose a meaning on it? Yes, that's about the stupidity level of denial here about what the British poppy actually commemorates.

Yes just like you imposing a value on the swastika's meaning when it is a symbol from Asian religions, it's all in the context and your context is way off line with remembrance services for the centenary of the 1918 armistice, I'm scarlet for your mother

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2018 12:29pm

I have to say, I do enjoy the virtue signalling that goes on about this on social media.
I have an English guy I do some business with who is now trying to have a pop at Irish and Scottish objectors to the poppy charade. He went to the trouble of making a post at 11am.
So much for respectful observance.

corner of hells · 11-11-2018 12:34pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am delighted that in the 100th year that has been no significant uptake in the acceptance of it here.
It will die out over the next hundred as even the British forget about it.

It looks like it's dying out , especially when you see wreaths laid by German and Irish dignitaries .

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2018 12:41pm

corner of hells wrote: »

It looks like it's dying out , especially when you see wreaths laid by German and Irish dignitaries .

We lay laurel wreaths as a 'state'.

As I have said, I don't have a problem with respectful remembrance by anyone who wants to do it.

The poppy charade has just become a vulgar way to taunt different peoples who threw out their colonial oppressors. The sooner it dies out here the better.

RandomName2 · 11-11-2018 12:47pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We lay laurel wreaths as a 'state'.

As I have said, I don't have a problem with respectful remembrance by anyone who wants to do it.

The poppy charade has just become a vulgar way to taunt different peoples who threw out their colonial oppressors. The sooner it dies out here the better.

There is no poppy charade here, in this country. There are just people who want to remember our dead. Even Fuaranach wants to remember our dead, albeit weeping tears of joy while doing so.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2018 12:51pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

There is no poppy charade here, in this country. There are just people who want to remember our dead. Even Fuaranach wants to remember our dead, albeit weeping tears of joy while doing so.

You want to specifically remember the dead who went to fight for the British empire in a slaughterfest of criminal proportions. And most of those vulgarly trying to normalise the poppy here want to/and do demean those who died for Irish aims.

That is a shameful charade. No two ways about it.

RandomName2 · 11-11-2018 1:00pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You want to specifically remember the dead who went to fight for the British empire in a slaughterfest of criminal proportions. And most of those vulgarly trying to normalise the poppy here want to/and do demean those who died for Irish aims.

That is a shameful charade. No two ways about it.

Look I don't know about your position, but most people with that stance aren't actually against the pointless bloodshed; the criminal irresponsibility of the officers; or the complete disregard for life. Instead they want to voice their objection to the British empire. While that is a fine position to have, absolutely legitimate, I don't think it's particularly appropriate to do it on Remembrance Sunday.

Clearly some of the Republicans here do think it's appropriate because they actively celebrate the deaths of Irish people who died on the Western front, who in their view deserved it for fighting for the British empire. Or how was it that Fuaranach put it?

Deleted User wrote: »

A thug is a thug no matter where they come from.

Ash.J.Williams · 11-11-2018 1:03pm

Anyone who has an opinion for or against poppies is an idiot

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2018 1:04pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Look I don't know about your position, but most people with that stance aren't actually against the pointless bloodshed; the criminal irresponsibility of the officers; or the complete disregard for life. Instead they want to voice their objection to the British empire. While that is a fine position to have, absolutely legitimate, I don't think it's particularly appropriate to do it on Remembrance Sunday.

Clearly some of the Republicans here do think it's appropriate because they actively celebrate the deaths of Irish people who died on the Western front, who in their view deserved it for fighting for the British empire. Or how was it that Fuaranach put it?

It is absolutely appropriate to do it on Remembrance Sunday. What we should be doing, is projecting into the future how many will pointlessly die in pursuit of futile, selfish and greedy imperialism, whosoever partakes in it. Then it might have some worthwhile significance.

Odhinn · 11-11-2018 1:05pm

markodaly wrote: »

Yet you converse in its tongue and profit from it. Go figure. :P

The BA have their own language and give me money??

Odhinn · 11-11-2018 1:07pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Look I don't know about your position, but most people with that stance aren't actually against the pointless bloodshed; the criminal irresponsibility of the officers; or the complete disregard for life. Instead they want to voice their objection to the British empire. While that is a fine position to have, absolutely legitimate, I don't think it's particularly appropriate to do it on Remembrance Sunday.

The objection is to the poppy, as the money goes to ex-british service people.

markodaly · 11-11-2018 1:10pm

Every year its the same 3 or 4 fools arguing about this topic. Sados tbh.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2018 1:13pm

markodaly wrote: »

Every year its the same 3 or 4 fools arguing about this topic. Sados tbh.

But here you are...on time, and on thread :rolleyes::rolleyes:

RandomName2 · 11-11-2018 1:15pm

Odhinn wrote: »

The objection is to the poppy, as the money goes to ex-british service people.

What has the poppy to do with Ireland? Virtually nobody here buys or wears one, so you're tilting at windmills in this country about that.

But if you're doing it to be part of the zeitgeist of Junkward Tom's

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Fenian sentiment

Then making it an opportunity to attack an empire which no longer exists makes sense.

markodaly · 11-11-2018 1:18pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But here you are...on time, and on thread :rolleyes::rolleyes:

And yet here you are raking up the post count, yet again. Last year you raked up the guts of 1000 posts in one thread alone, here you are again this year making up for it as you were otherwise engaged on the Peter Casey thread.

Don't you have something else to be doing on a Sunday morning Francie, or indeed any morning? Is this the best way to use your time? ..... I guess not.

Anyway, bye.. ill see you next year, ill respond to a post if I actually care enough about the topic :rolleyes:

cursai · 11-11-2018 1:25pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Anyone who has an opinion for or against poppies is an idiot

That's a good point but I haven't formed an opinion on it.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2018 1:26pm

markodaly wrote: »

And yet here you are raking up the post count, yet again. Last year you raked up the guts of 1000 posts in one thread alone, here you are again this year making up for it as you were otherwise engaged on the Peter Casey thread.

Don't you have something else to be doing on a Sunday morning Francie, or indeed any morning? Is this the best way to use your time? ..... I guess not.

Anyway, bye.. ill see you next year, ill respond to a post if I actually care enough about the topic :rolleyes:

Glad you took the time to search out a thread to pretend you don't care about it

there Mark, on this fine Sunday morning. (I am actually out walking the hills of the border atm)

*Will let you know if any permanent pensionable posts as internet policeman come up while you are offline...not caring about stuff.

The Rape of Lucretia · 11-11-2018 1:44pm

Her Majesty The Queen was sporting four poppies this morning, so I dont think there is any doubt which side of the argument she iz on.
Hiever, and I respect her choice, she only wears it over this weekend, and not for the last few weeks. She has such class.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2018 1:52pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

She has such class.

What were you expecting from somebody you deferentially call 'her Majesty'?

What an odd thing to call anyone in this day and age.

11-11-2018 1:53pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Her Majesty The Queen was sporting four poppies this morning, so I dont think there is any doubt which side of the argument she iz on.
Hiever, and I respect her choice, she only wears it over this weekend, and not for the last few weeks. She has such class.

I mentioned this in an earlier post. She got criticised for not having one on by a Daily Star tweet before this weekend. The overlong commercialised poppy orgy needs to end.

Danzy · 11-11-2018 2:00pm

A couple hundred in this State will attend ceremonies today.

Says it all really, this thread will have more arguing about it than will wear poppies, attend a commemoration or protest it.

That is how irrelevant the poppy day and symbol is.

People just don't give a ****.

droidman123 · 11-11-2018 2:01pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Her Majesty The Queen was sporting four poppies this morning, so I dont think there is any doubt which side of the argument she iz on.
Hiever, and I respect her choice, she only wears it over this weekend, and not for the last few weeks. She has such class.

Would you really lower yourself to calling someone "your majesty" you really think she is above you and better than you that you would address her,or anyone, in that manner?

Danzy · 11-11-2018 2:03pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Her Majesty The Queen was sporting four poppies this morning, so I dont think there is any doubt which side of the argument she iz on.
Hiever, and I respect her choice, she only wears it over this weekend, and not for the last few weeks. She has such class.

His Majesty The Queen never wore a Poppy up to his death in Nov. 1991.

Anyone seen the biopic, looks great.

Poppy

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