Car insurance for >15 year old cars

rahmalec · 28-11-2016 1:35pm #1

Could we make a list of companies that insure 15 year old cars? Luck so far is 0.
Would love if people could post any successes so we can all just go straight to the companies that will actually quote and not waste our time ...

Corvo · 28-11-2016 5:53pm

It won't be a very long list, I can guarantee you that.

long_b · 28-11-2016 5:55pm

RSA for one

rahmalec · 29-11-2016 9:23pm

Wow is that all? Just RSA?
So what have the other thousands of drivers who have old cars done? Anyone want to share?

We've insured now with Axa. We already had our policy with them and just renewed. Not sure if they'd take on any new policies.

zoe 3619 · 29-11-2016 9:29pm

Sertus and ARB.
Try going through a broker.I find it quicker,easier and always far cheaper.

SCOOP 64 · 29-11-2016 9:29pm

I change from 123.ie to Bank of Ireland car insurance last year on a 1998 Astra,
as 123.ie went up by €175 as it was over 15yrs, bank of ireland match 123 previous year quote, up again in Feb see BOI quote then !

zoe 3619 · 29-11-2016 9:29pm

Sertus and ARB.
Try going through a broker.I find it quicker,easier and always far cheaper.

SureWhyNotNow · 30-11-2016 6:31pm

Blue insurance, Underwritten by Patrona took on our 1998 VW Sharan as a new policy. 810 for TPFT. Not bad considering everyone else wanted no less than 1200.

Special Circumstances · 01-12-2016 2:59am

Be great if there was some online resource that asked you a few questions and popped out the names of willing insurers.

If the could have all the logos lit up, then greying out as you went down the list it would be great.

Is your car over 8 years old, regardless of safety features?
Is it over 2.0L petrol?
Does it have a radio other than the original factory radio?
Have you been forced to make a third party non fault claim through no fault of your own, all fault being due to the ignorant yoke that drove into you through sheer incompetence?

Hopeful2016 · 01-12-2016 3:18am

Its4women, €650. Zurich wanted €844, up from €530 the previous year. 2001, 1.6L.

Atlantic Dawn · 01-12-2016 3:24am

Hopeful2016 wrote: »

Its4women, €650. Zurich wanted €844, up from €530 the previous year. 2001, 1.6L.

Sometimes Its4women can give a bloke a bloody good quote

3rdDegree · 01-12-2016 3:33am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Sometimes Its4women can give a bloke a bloody good quote

25 Plus if the same company.

Hopeful2016 · 01-12-2016 3:52am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Sometimes Its4women can give a bloke a bloody good quote

It's late and I'm not sure if you're serious but to clarify for those who may not know, they insure men too....

Surreptitious · 01-12-2016 4:04am

long_b wrote: »

RSA for one

Not anymore.

Nekarsulm · 01-12-2016 4:13am

FBD will, and I go a great quote from BofI 's insurance arm. 2001 Passat.

Special Circumstances · 01-12-2016 8:22am

Nekarsulm wrote: »

FBD will,.

Were you renewing insurance? Because by their own ts&cs they shouldn't quote for new business. Don't tell me they are making it up as they go along!

tracey1098 · 01-12-2016 8:32am

ARB definitely will quote

rojerdandry · 04-01-2017 2:05pm

Does RSA mean 123.ie? Have had no luck with them, Bank of Ireland, FBD or Itsforwomen...

SCOOP 64 · 04-01-2017 7:41pm

rojerdandry wrote: »

Does RSA mean 123.ie? Have had no luck with them, Bank of Ireland, FBD or Itsforwomen...

I was with 123.ie (RSA), but whet with Bank of Ireland got alot cheaper quote turned out its with RSA as well.

Donal55 · 04-01-2017 7:44pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

I was with 123.ie (RSA), but whet with Bank of Ireland got alot cheaper quote turned out its with was RSA as well.

Same here RSA through 123.ie.

JohnBoy26 · 04-01-2017 7:46pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

FBD will, and I go a great quote from BofI 's insurance arm. 2001 Passat.

They won't. Liberty insurance do though.

cplwhisper · 04-01-2017 10:58pm

RSA underwriters sell to the public via the trading name of 123.ie but brokers also sell policies for RSA. Banks and large brokers like AA can sell RSA policies sometimes cheaper than small companies & 123, as they get higher discount packages and will provide 20,000+ policies per year

Bananaleaf · 04-01-2017 11:08pm

What are insurers' reasons for refusing to quote a car over 15years old? These cars are NCT tested every year which is a statement of road worthiness, so just wondering what their basis for refusal is? My own car is 00 and I'd awful trouble getting insured last year too.

beauf · 05-01-2017 1:22pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

What are insurers' reasons for refusing to quote a car over 15years old? These cars are NCT tested every year which is a statement of road worthiness, so just wondering what their basis for refusal is? My own car is 00 and I'd awful trouble getting insured last year too.

They don't need a reason. As they don't disclose their figures. As such I would take an reason given with a pinch of salt. Insurance in this country has never been logical. Premiums and quotes vary enormously, which suggest its not based on any constant methodology.

beauf · 05-01-2017 1:24pm

I've not tried a new company but Allianz seem to ok with renewing an existing clean policy which is years old on a 17yr car. That said there was no difference on a 6yr old car and 17yr old for me.

galwaytt · 05-01-2017 4:40pm

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

They won't. Liberty insurance do though.

^^^this: FBD wouldn't quote my 2001 Audi either.

26000 Elephants · 06-01-2017 10:09am

beauf wrote: »

They don't need a reason. .

I dont think its as simple as that. Remember that there is a legal requirement to have insurance. In a market where the participants have no choice but to be there, there has to be a higher standard of transparency and accountability. Its ripe for cartel-like behaviour.

The insurance companies havent been forward with explaining the loading for 15+ year old cars for a reason - they dont have anything concrete. Anecdotal evidence of fraud perhaps, but I doubt that would stand up to scrutiny.

Its one thing establishing a link between inexperienced drivers and powerful cars, its quite another to penalise honest drivers because fraudsters choose cheaper cars to minimise their outlay.

Its the fraud that needs to be dealt with, not the cars.

Its simply the lazy option to target the car.

beauf · 06-01-2017 10:49am

26000 Elephants wrote: »

I dont think its as simple as that.

Well it is. It's a Captive market with no oversight.

If they can give wildly different quotes when the customer haggles or price matches, then the prices aren't credible.

If someone has a long history of no claims, then it makes no sense they are a high risk if they change insurer. They are basically ignoring a clients history.

The only reason that explains this is and it's that it's not based on risk, but on price gouging.

beauf · 06-01-2017 10:54am

26000 Elephants wrote: »

I ...

Its the fraud that needs to be dealt with, not the cars.

Its simply the lazy option to target the car.

The problem is they are encouraging claims by settling to save money, and also the large claims being awarded. Many of the compensation claims awarded are absurd.

Saved money in the short term. But it has fanned the flames massively of fraud and compensation claims.

You reap what you sow.

26000 Elephants · 06-01-2017 10:54am

beauf wrote: »

Well it is. It's a Captive market with no oversight.

If they can give wildly different quotes when the customer haggles or price matches, then the prices aren't credible.

If someone has a long history of no claims, then it makes no sense they are a high risk if they change insurer. They are basically ignoring a clients history.

The only reason that explains this is and it's that it's not based on risk, but on price gouging.

So what is to be done?

JPF82 · 06-01-2017 11:14am

I eventually got cover for 690 TPFT with Bank of Ireland. Apart from 123.ie, everyone else was quoting 1,200 to 2,000 or not giving a quote in some cases. My car is a 2003 Saab 95 2.0 LPT. So not powerful or fast either! I'm a 34 year old teacher, 12 years totally clean driving.
FBD, Axa wouldn't quote me which pissed me off.
I did a quick quote with FBD online, where they just looked for basic personnal details and car engine size. That gave me hope when they quoted me under 600 euro, so I proceeded to do a detailed quote. When I put the exact car details in, they refused a quote.

I requested a written explanation for their refusal. I got a reply saying that I "didn't meet their underwriting criteria." No further explanation was given.

Chill rang me back to see if I wanted to proceed with any of the quotes they gave me. They were between 1300 and just over 2000! I was polite to the lady on the phone, but told her what I thought of insurance companies.

My previous insurance was with the AA. It jumped from 650 to 1180 this year. When I rang them to tell them I wasn't renewing, they didn't even ask why or try to give me a better quote. This says a lot. They don't want my business.

26000 Elephants · 06-01-2017 11:41am

JPF82 wrote: »

I didn't meet their underwriting criteria..

Thats infuriating. Who are they trying to target if a 34 year old driving a mid insurance group car with a clean license doesnt make the grade?

Also, the number of quotes around the 1200 mark is getting suspicious. Thats what Liberty quoted me on renewal until I challenged it. The subsequently reviewed it to 700euro (still ridiculous for a rural 45yo driving a garaged 1.6 worth less than a grand).

In any normally functioning insurance market I should be paying about 400.

alastair · 06-01-2017 12:00pm

2002 Audi A2 1.4 TDi

Dublin inner city, 50yr old, 6 yrs NCD, ten years no points.

Ended up with a spooky €666 from BofI. Renewal with quoteme wanted €769.

AA's web form was giving me quotes for a variety of cover permutations, and then just turned cold on me - no quote, even the links to the already issued quotes hit the same dead end.

Wibbs · 06-01-2017 1:00pm

1998 Honda integra. 50 years old, full driving licence for so long I passed the test on a chariot, no penalties, no claims, full alarm and immobiliser among other security, 600 quid excess, sub 3000 Kms per year. Insurance from ARB was beyond daft last year at 1600 quid. Yep not a typo, this year they have come back with a quote of 2600. Gone up by a thousand euro. Don't try to tell me that the Irish insurance industry isn't a bunch of thieving daylight robbers passing on their past screwups onto the rest of us. :mad:

I'm going to do the usual ringing around but likely to little avail. Worse, every single one of these bloody shysters wants seed, breed and generation for their databases and after all that they get to the part where they won't insure the car model itself. Just once I'd like them to tell me before I waste my bloody time with them. :mad::mad:

Wibbs · 06-01-2017 1:07pm

Oh and without the NCB it's over 6000 euro. :eek::eek: Yeah. Yet another chap on this forum was a bit put out because a Porsche 996 turbo worth ten times my car at what four times the power? would be 3 and a half grand. Oh and my policy is me only apparently and third party fire and theft. Yep, not even compo at that. There is zero logic or reason for that difference. Utter bastards. :mad:

Special Circumstances · 06-01-2017 1:12pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh and without the NCB it's over 6000 euro. :eek::eek: Yeah. Yet another chap on this forum was a bit put out because a Porsche 996 turbo worth ten times my car at what four times the power? would be 3 and a half grand. Oh and my policy is me only apparently and third party fire and theft. Yep, not even compo at that. There is zero logic or reason for that difference. Utter bastards. :mad:

I think the Irish insurance companies must have been on the hook for policies in Pearl Harbour. They still bear a grudge against the Japanese.

Wibbs · 06-01-2017 1:40pm

It's organised theft is what it is. There is no way in hell that any actuarial type with a straight face can claim the risk of my car is nearly twice the risk of a 911 turbo. A minor front end tap for the 911 would cost more to repair than my entire car would cost to replace. At the premium minus the NCB of 6000 quid I could buy another example of my car and have change to have a spare smaller engined one for runs to the shops and pay the road tax on both and have enough left for a pint or three.

My Broker. Earlier.

To be fair to him I don't blame him, it's the **** in management(I stifled a laugh typing that) in the insurance industry and the utter cretins in government and the greasy till palmers in the legal profession.

Bananaleaf · 06-01-2017 1:51pm

The stories here are utterly shocking.

I'm in a serious quandary here (renewal not due until March so that buys me some time) This is what is going through my head at the moment (TL:DR I don't know what I'm going to do and need to really think it over, yet have no choice at the end of the day)

I have (as previously stated) a 00 car. I could buy a younger model but for the money I am willing (due to only being able) to spend I'd be getting a 12yr old car most likely (and god knows what other issues - at least I know the motor I have has been looked after, serviced regularly, has been passing the NCT each year, has no issues)

I'm not willing to spend 2k on insurance. While I can technically afford it (the funds exist in my bank account) I can't afford it.

I will not pay it. I won't drive uninsured either though. Yet I know I can't refuse to do both without having to do one of them.

I do live within cycling distance from work and most of the things I need but I don't have a decent enough bike to get there on. Roads to work are pretty trecherous as a driver (search my post history for that one too!) and due to the materials I need to bring with me for work it won't work.

So really, I'm going on like I have a choice to make, but I don't. I need the car. So will have to find the money to pay. And THAT is the most infuriating part of it all. That I'm being backed into a corner.

FreshCoffee · 06-01-2017 1:52pm

99D car with Zurich but it's through a broker I've been with for many years and I find they always put in the effort.

26000 Elephants · 06-01-2017 2:42pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

t I'm being backed into a corner.

That is the crux of it all. You sound like a decent person who is being forced to consider options he finds deplorable. And that is clearly wrong.

What this discussion needs is a devils advocate - someone who can put a case (even a hypothetical one) for the insurance companies that can be argued against. There must be some justification somewhere!! Otherwise we are witnessing a consumer fraud that puts PPI in the shade.

26000 Elephants · 06-01-2017 4:12pm

The insurers claimed these cars tended to be involved in more collisions, were used in fraud cases, had bald tyres and were poorly maintained.

URL="http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/insurers-refuse-to-cover-older-vehicles-31397715.html"]source[/URL Irish Independent July 2015

Can a new-ish car have bald tyres? Of course it can. This is a responsibility of the owner and is not an inherent characteristic of the vehicle. bald tyres

Ditto with 'poorly maintained'. Its a wonderfully vague notion that is difficult to pin down, yet worthy of a refusal to cover. Not to mention the snub to the (legally mandated) work of the NCT. poorly maintained

Used in fraud cases? Again, this is not a characteristic of older cars, just the budget of the fraudsters.

Which leaves 'involved in more collisions' - maybe they are. But where are the figures? And what was the outcome of these collisions? Who was driving these cars at the time? Maybe the issue is not with the age of the car, but its driver profile.

Points to ponder.

JPF82 · 06-01-2017 4:24pm

Out of curiosity, I tried another quote with FBD. Same car, but put in the year as 2009 instead of 2003. Yep, quoted me 640 euro. Even though the car is the exact same with 124,000 miles on the 2009 one I looked up versus the 128,000 miles that are on my 2003 Saab. But the 6 years makes my car unisnrable by them. Daft. If I get time over the coming weeks I might get a lost of examples together to put to the ombudsman. For all the good it'll do....but hey ho.

gustafo · 06-01-2017 7:33pm

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Thats infuriating. Who are they trying to target if a 34 year old driving a mid insurance group car with a clean license doesnt make the grade?

Also, the number of quotes around the 1200 mark is getting suspicious. Thats what Liberty quoted me on renewal until I challenged it. The subsequently reviewed it to 700euro (still ridiculous for a rural 45yo driving a garaged 1.6 worth less than a grand).

In any normally functioning insurance market I should be paying about 400.

Ridiculous

And the amount of spouting going on in the media about people driving and not having insurance. i can understand why some people are doing it now.

26000 Elephants · 06-01-2017 8:02pm

gustafo wrote: »

Ridiculous

And the amount of spouting going on in the media about people driving and not having insurance. i can understand why some people are doing it now.

I think I mentioned previously that the media have been partially complicit in this by running press releases issued by insurance companies without any questions. These set the expectations among consumers that increases are inevitable without giving credible reasons for it.

The sad truth is that it has nothing to do with claims, costs or age of cars. Its about building a cash reserve. After years of reckless business practice they are being regulated into submission with larger reserve requirements. But instead of 'borrowing' ( negotiating a credit facility) on the wholesale money market, most insurance companies are financing this by gouging individual clients. How this is legal I have no idea.

Wibbs · 06-01-2017 8:19pm

+1 and it's doubly annoying because it's a captive audience and legal requirement and what are our elected muppets doing about it? Feck all as per usual. Now I might whinge over my private car, but I personally know folks who use their cars for work, both self employed and as employees and this is really affecting them and this along with other general insurance hikes will trickle down and affect business in this country.

The variability - that is the figures picked out of their arses - quotes shows them up for the gougers they are. In the other thread hereabouts where a chap after some tooing and froing finally got coverage for his over fifteen year old Porsche 911 turbo at I quote "with a €1,000 excess on a value of €60k and 'open driving' for any full licence holder over 35 which means they would have full comp as well while driving it for €1,040". OK the chap is 55 but still…

Yet my renewal quote as a 50 year old with a full licence for 30 years means my 5 grand Honda is two and a half times the risk as a 60 grand 911 turbo? JPF82, admittedly a mere child at 35

was quoted what the Porsche chap is paying and up to double for an 03 Saab 2.0 for just TPF&T. He eventually got a "bargain" at 690. Wildly differing quotes. Yeah remind me again how actuarial all this is? Someone is having a laugh at our expense.

26000 Elephants · 06-01-2017 10:25pm

According to the central bank, the rise in insurance premiums in Ireland has very little to do with cost of claims, or whether fellas are knocking around in 15 year old almeras with baldy tyres... No. Its to make up for money they lost on the global financial markets in the last few years. They invested, it wasn't as profitable as they liked so Irish consumers must subsidise their poor judgement.

After a few years of coining the cash on their investments, they blew it by undercutting each other to drive their competitors out of business. When they could no longer rely on their investing skillz to cover their intentional underwriting losses, the consumer ( who is forced by law to deal with them) has to help rebuild their asset sheets.

Scandalous.

I wrote to the Governor of the Central Bank of Ireland last July seeking a report setting out his assessment of the outlook for the insurance sector generally. I was advised that the Irish insurance sector emerged from the initial stages of the global financial crisis relatively unscathed.

Until recently firms enjoyed a prolonged period of reasonable investment returns on the asset side of their balance sheets. This income stream provided firms with the scope to compete aggressively on price. However, recent reversals in investment markets worldwide have generated investment losses. This issue of lower investment income returns is an industry-wide problem which is expected to continue for the foreseeable future, unfortunately.

The Central Bank has advised me that recent premium increases are designed to restore core underwriting profitability and to secure the financial position of the firms concerned for the longer term.

Its only business, guys. Pay up. :mad:

TL:DR Your 30% premium hike has nothing to do with the cost of claims in Ireland, and everything to do with restoring the balance sheet of a private company.

Bananaleaf · 07-01-2017 12:18am

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Its only business, guys. Pay up. :mad:

TL:DR Your 30% premium hike has nothing to do with the cost of claims in Ireland, and everything to do with restoring the balance sheet of a private company.

Well isn't that just lovely.

I know the question has been put out there already, but how is this legal?

Special Circumstances · 07-01-2017 5:51am

26000 Elephants wrote: »

I think I mentioned previously that the media have been partially complicit in this by running press releases issued by insurance companies without any questions. These set the expectations among consumers that increases are inevitable without giving credible reasons for it.
.

They have the fvcking gall then to chastise us for abandoning mainstream media and listening to "fake news" when they serve us up fake news every day of the week to suit whatever big business hands them a press release.

"Ye are all scamming scum, no mention shall be made of investment performance and gross mismanagement"

"We took the total number of cars in Ireland and compared it with the number of insurance policies, and through this infantile and meaningless comparison we have proved that there are lots of cars uninsured den Den DEN!"

"Diesel is clean and low emissions"

Fake news, zero critical analysis.

Special Circumstances · 07-01-2017 6:53am

Ferrari3600 wrote: »

Do you mind me asking why would you be with ARB in the first place, I thought they were the ones that specialised in high performance motors ?

Burrrrrrrrrrn.

Liberty are running a competition in their forum for a free fire extinguisher if you need it after that burn Wibbs. I encourage everyone to enter for the laugh.

Shur a 2L econobox Japanese petrol is a performance car in Ireland. Nevermind a car with the prohibited VTEC (crosses oneself, makes sign to ward off evil eye, washes lad with holy water) technology. Oh be the hokey and VTEC in all its unholy forms must be driven out of Ireland.

Edit...
I have no idea what glitch in the matrix disappeared ferrari36000s question to Wibbs. I didn't make it up in swear!

26000 Elephants · 07-01-2017 3:03pm

Special Circumstances wrote: »

They have the fvcking gall then to chastise us for abandoning mainstream media and listening to "fake news" when they serve us up fake news every day of the week to suit whatever big business hands them a press release.

Not fake at all. Just barefaced lies. And its obviously an industry agreed scheme as all the major companies are complicit. The media is simply lazy. Do any google search of articles in the independant, the 'oirish' mail, examiner, etc. and they all trot out the older-cars-fraud mantra.

Or Conor from the AA with this sharp insight:

Traffic volumes have increased rapidly, thus resulting in more crashes and more exposure. There is also evidence to suggest that the cost of settling claims for injuries is growing

Oh really? But didnt you collect money from all those extra cars as well?

And the evidence is that the cost of settling injury claims is actually reducing, according to the PIAB. The number of claims may go up, but usually in proportion to the growth of the overall insurance market.

But the insurance companies lie in the face offacts from the RSA themselves. I quoted earlier about "bald tyres and poorly maintained" 15 year old cars. Yet the RSA admit that vehicle condition is a cause in only 0.2% of accidents. Thats 7 in 3200 vehicles in 2012. And an entire category of cars have been effectively banned as a result.

"Ye are all scamming scum, no mention shall be made of investment performance and gross mismanagement"

Thats what they are trying to portray us as.

Wibbs · 07-01-2017 3:45pm

Was reading another thread in the Motors forum about the new Fiesta ST 1.6 Ecoboost. Little pocket rocket and general fun car. 26 grand new. Insurance on one? Hope the folks over there don't mind but…

Donnelly117 wrote: »

About 600 euro fully comp with aviva, 27, full no claims, no points.

GavRedKing wrote: »

Mines €580 I think, 31, fully comp, no points, 9 years full license, no claims

Edit : With AIG. Was with AA and they wanted nearly €700 on renewal, up from about €600.

hooch-85 wrote: »

Paid 640 last time. 30 full no claims 3 points. With AIG as well through a broker. Was quoted 750 and put the Mrs on the policy and it brought it down.

peterk19 wrote: »

Went with Campion Insurance broker in the end got it for about 550 fully comp 34 full no claims after all the usual insurers were looking for 700+

testicles wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

MidMan25 wrote: »

Stuck one into AXA (who i'm currently with) out of sheer curiosity.

492 for fully comp.

28 with full NCB, full license 6 years, and no points. Have the other half as a named driver.

Note if ye will the slight variability, but look at the general prices. Now bear in mind these are a fast little sporty yoke and are(like the Focus) being nicked a lot in the UK so that's an extra risk. Yet the gouging shysters want over three times the premium for my car? Even though I'm older and only third party? If any insurance type tries to claim this is down to risk management I'll laugh in their faces.

Oh and how things used to be different, but yet another example of how these charlatans have been gouging us for years. Back when I got my Satan Babyeater 3000 on wheels back in the early noughties I did look at a local original officially imported Irish example. In the end I didn't go for it and one of the biggest reasons was insurance on Irish market Integra's was significantly higher than on the Jap import examples. yep. Then again the Irish second hand car dealer network was making small fortunes in the Jap import market and some big names in SIMI were involved. When that was no longer a good revenue stream it's funny how the Japanese stuff became radioactive. Or not so funny…

It would be my humble that at least some of this "no insurance for over 10 years old" is driven by the Irish car dealers/government to raise revenue and collect more tax euros. Well certain cars of that vintage. Far more powerful Porsches and Mercs and Beemers are not nearly hit so hard*. Well they're more likely to be driven by well heeled customers and you don't want to tick them off. It's also quite interesting that if you wait long enough then the "deathtrap on the road" magically becomes a "classic" at 20 years old and insurance costs fall off a cliff.

*even though noughties Beemers are piss easy to steal and the drifter crowd love the Euro rear wheel drive stuff.

Car insurance for >15 year old cars

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