Dublin Bus Network Review

KC61 · 19-10-2010 11:21am

adrieanne__x wrote: »

Probably, I love getting drunk when I'm looking after kids :rolleyes:

I'm glad the 76 is going to bypass Ballyfermot now, the route was way too long.

Can't wait to see what they're going to do with the Finglas routes. It's already starting to take shape with the 17a extended to Blanchardstown and the 40 extended to Liffey Valley. Wonder what they'll do with the 40D?

From what I would guess from the Ballyfermot map, the 40 will now serve South Finglas, West Finglas and North Finglas before terminating at Finglas Village. It and the 40a may merge into one.

We already know from posts here that the 40D will then take the direct routing along Mellowes Road and the N2 rather than serving South and West Finglas.

Dyr · 19-10-2010 12:10pm

adrieanne__x wrote: »

It's already starting to take shape with the 17a extended to Blanchardstown and the 40 extended to Liffey Valley. Wonder what they'll do with the 40D?

So the 17a is going through baldoyle, coolock, ballymun, finglas and now blanch as well? That's not a route its a tour of duty :pac:

January · 19-10-2010 12:55pm

Bambi wrote: »

So the 17a is going through baldoyle, coolock, ballymun, finglas and now blanch as well? That's not a route its a tour of duty :pac:

Yeah, but at least the 17a doesn't do a tour of all the housing estates like the 220 does...

trellheim · 19-10-2010 1:12pm

18 extended to docklands station

that's mad ted.

There's massive congestion on macken st north already, and no buslane. 74 already crosses that bridge. can't see a reason for the extension really except helping sandymount residents get to the LUAS a bit faster than the 2 or 3 would.

paulm17781 · 19-10-2010 1:48pm

trellheim wrote: »

There's massive congestion on macken st north already, and no buslane. 74 already crosses that bridge. can't see a reason for the extension really except helping sandymount residents get to the LUAS a bit faster than the 2 or 3 would.

This will give a link between the red and green lines though. Not exactly a quick link but giving people better transport options should be welcomed.

trellheim · 19-10-2010 2:16pm

another link surely, most buses going up dawson st that also go up o'connell st could say the same and faster.

The intercept point for the 18 and the Green Line is Ranelagh at the Triangle bridge. , leaving a 3-4 minute walk.

So Green Line, 3-4 mins walk then its round and round the houses to Sandymount, thence Docklands ?

noelfirl · 19-10-2010 2:37pm

paulm17781 wrote: »

This will give a link between the red and green lines though. Not exactly a quick link but giving people better transport options should be welcomed.

A 2nd link, it already connects the Red and Green lines at Kylemore and Ranelagh respectively (albeit, not a very useful connection).

Anyway, it turns the 18 into an essentially full southern orbital, which is good I suppose, it might be feasible as a feeder to the Luas and DART if the headway of 15 minutes at peak time can be made to work.

*cough*

Maybe not.

munchkin_utd · 19-10-2010 4:13pm

stop wrote: »

18 extended to docklands station :eek:
via East Link I assume?

sounds sensible to me.

The Dunboyne to Docklands trains are not by any means full, so by offering more onward options from Docklands you might coax people heading for the Landsdowne Road/ Sandymount area to go via Docklands&Bus rather than they would currently do via absolutely jammed Connolly & Dart route.
(or the even more chronically congested direct train from D15 to Sandymount and beyond)
This would give a better loading to the Docklands services, and relieve the overcrowding on the D15 to Connolly services.

Its almost joined up thinking from CIE.
To use THEIR bus services to get passengers to and from THEIR rail services?
Fup.
Maybe we should patent such an idea and sell it on the continent.....

oh, I forgot.
Its normal practice for busses and trains to compliment each other across the world.

Only in ireland would the busses and trains be owned by the SAME company and act as if there was no synergies to be gained by working together.

AlekSmart · 19-10-2010 4:31pm

Some distant rumblings heard today concerning disaffected members of the tenantry around Wilton Terrace.

Unhappiness at the scale of what Dublin Bus is proposing apparently....Imagine,living in a Capital City and having BUSES ( :eek: ) outside one`s property !

Nothing concrete or confirmable,but suggestions of a High-Court injunction being considered....?

I do hope it`s not true,and this being The Republic of Ireland,one can only hope !!

Nevyn · 19-10-2010 4:35pm

Has there been any sort of inkling as to when the changes to the 37/38/39 are going to happen?

thomasj · 19-10-2010 4:42pm

Thaedydal wrote: »

Has there been any sort of inkling as to when the changes to the 37/38/39 are going to happen?

The latest I heard from db hq was late October FWIH possibly next Sunday because of the bank holiday weekend this week

Nevyn · 19-10-2010 5:14pm

Oh the irony, as I am spending the bank holiday weekend attending an even in the D4 hotels when I first heard about the changes I tought oh that will be handy for the bank holiday weekend and it seem that the 4 and the 7 have been changed which would be the connecting bus to there for me.

KC61 · 19-10-2010 5:35pm

Thaedydal wrote: »

Oh the irony, as I am spending the bank holiday weekend attending an even in the D4 hotels when I first heard about the changes I tought oh that will be handy for the bank holiday weekend and it seem that the 4 and the 7 have been changed which would be the connecting bus to there for me.

Implementing network changes on a weekend when the Dublin Marathon is on on the Monday with mass diversions would not be very clever!

Cookie_Monster · 19-10-2010 6:13pm

Thaedydal wrote: »

Oh the irony, as I am spending the bank holiday weekend attending an even in the D4 hotels when I first heard about the changes I tought oh that will be handy for the bank holiday weekend and it seem that the 4 and the 7 have been changed which would be the connecting bus to there for me.

7 has not changed and 4 has been extended at the southern end and frequency cut, no other route change

Nevyn · 19-10-2010 6:34pm

KC61 wrote: »

Implementing network changes on a weekend when the Dublin Marathon is on on the Monday with mass diversions would not be very clever!

The changes were meant to originally to happen end of august, I am not expecting them to happen over the bankholiday weekend, but I had thought they would have happened before the end of October.

joegriffinjnr · 19-10-2010 7:29pm

Bambi wrote: »

So the 17a is going through baldoyle, coolock, ballymun, finglas and now blanch as well? That's not a route its a tour of duty :pac:

Where are you getting Baldoyle from, I thought the 17A would operate from Kilbarrack to Blanchardstown? Has it changed again?

thomasj · 20-10-2010 11:00am

Slightly off topic!

Anyone getting a internal server error screen when attempting to access the Dublin bus website?

ardmacha · 20-10-2010 11:23am

Might there not be a case for using the review to renumber the 17A bus? Having an "A" variation that is entirely distant and from the 17 is a bit odd and probably causes someone confusion at some time.

thomasj · 20-10-2010 11:33am

Maybe 220?

I just don't get it! What's with all the suffixes? (17A, 20B, 29A, 39A, 46A, 54A, 78A etc)

KC61 · 20-10-2010 11:46am

thomasj wrote: »

Maybe 220?

I just don't get it! What's with all the suffixes? (17A, 20B, 29A, 39A, 46A, 54A, 78A etc)

The 220 is remaining in its own right so I would see 17a remaining too.

Stevek101 · 20-10-2010 11:52am

Renumbering will come after the network review.

KC61 · 20-10-2010 12:07pm

To be fair looking at the Ballyfermot map, there is some renumbering happening - the 78 and 78a will become the 40 and the 27b will become the 79 thereby eliminating some of the alpha suffixes.

Bazzer2 · 20-10-2010 12:11pm

thomasj wrote: »

I just don't get it! What's with all the suffixes? (17A, 20B, 29A, 39A, 46A, 54A, 78A etc)

What are you trying to say? Because there's a 20B, that there should be a 20A, or 20?

In the case of the 39A, there's also 39, 39B, 39C.
In the case of 78A, there's also a 78.

Cookie_Monster · 20-10-2010 12:14pm

Stevek101 wrote: »

Renumbering will come after the network review.

really? as is sensible downward renumbering using up all the smaller number that have been lost over the years and droppings of "A" and so forth if original route no longer exists?

Stevek101 · 20-10-2010 12:21pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

really? as is sensible downward renumbering using up all the smaller number that have been lost over the years and droppings of "A" and so forth if original route no longer exists?

It was originally a part of network review but to stop confusion of both routing and numbering changing at the same time it was decided to leave it till later.

thomasj · 20-10-2010 12:25pm

Bazzer2 wrote: »

What are you trying to say? Because there's a 20B, that there should be a 20A, or 20?

In the case of the 39A, there's also 39, 39B, 39C.
In the case of 78A, there's also a 78.

I'm just saying in the case of major routes, they should be numbered accordingly without the suffixes. In the case of the 20b given there's no 20 should it not just become the 20, given there's no 46, how about the 46a becoming the 46. Given there will no longer be a 10, how about the 39a become the 10? Is it also not clearer for a passenger to see the front display of a bus approaching if there is only 2 digits. My main point is, all these 2 digit numbers are out there to spare for db why waste them on suffixes?

I meant to say moving forward, given that so many routes are being merged how about cutting out suffixes where possible.

dynamick · 20-10-2010 12:44pm

The Deloitte Report had a section on numbering complexity of DB routes

A. Complexity of network and services The current network can appear complex to the casual user as a result of the number of different route variants and the mix between high and low frequency services. Examples have been identified where the current network is overly complex and can act as a barrier to use:

 Related services typically have variants such as the 4/4A, though in some cases there are many variants (eg 40, 40A, 40B, 40C, 40D).
 In some cases the linkage between route variations can be tenuous. For example, Route 17 is an orbital service on the southside of Dublin while Route 17A is an orbital service on the northside of Dublin. Route 51A serves Beaumount hospital on the northside of the city while Route 51B serves Clondalkin on the westside of the city.
 On the Stillorgan QBC the new route to Bray has been numbered 145 to link with the old non QBC route to Bray (the 45), rather than the 46A with which it is common for a significant length. The 46A could be assumed to be a variant of Route 46, yet there is no such route.
 Particular areas are served by a range of route numbers (e.g. Malahide Road: 20B, 27, 27B, 27C, 27X, 42, 42A, 42B, 43, 128, 129; Rathmines: 14, 14A, 15, 15A, 15B, 15E, 15F, 18, 65, 65B, 74, 74A, 83, 128, 142 )
 Route 128 is a high frequency all day, every day route while Route 129 has two departures each weekday in each direction and does not operate at weekends.

Our analysis demonstrates that it is possible to create a more simplified network which will be easier to understand and less costly to operate. Network simplification: Belfast bus services example (“Metro”) Translink introduced the 'Belfast Metro' network in February 2005 having commissioned TAS to design, test and validate network changes. The plans were tested using Geographic Information Systems to ensure the network met equality and accessibility parameters. The result was a highly visible colour coded network on 12 core corridors with 5-10 minute weekday daytime frequencies on the main sections. The network delivered better services for more people, improved punctuality and reliability. Mileage operated grew by 5%, the fleet was upgraded and the complete package delivered 20% growth in passenger numbers across the Metro business. While the scale of operations in Belfast is significantly smaller than Dublin, the principles remain the same.

Cookie_Monster · 20-10-2010 12:52pm

thomasj wrote: »

I'm just saying in the case of major routes, they should be numbered accordingly without the suffixes. In the case of the 20b given there's no 20 should it not just become the 20, given there's no 46, how about the 46a becoming the 46. Given there will no longer be a 10, how about the 39a become the 10? Is it also not clearer for a passenger to see the front display of a bus approaching if there is only 2 digits. My main point is, all these 2 digit numbers are out there to spare for db why waste them on suffixes?

I meant to say moving forward, given that so many routes are being merged how about cutting out suffixes where possible.

definitly, getting rid of outdated numbers like 46a and rationalising them way down. there was no reason to drop the 10 instead of the 39a. Each of the QBCs should be given a group of numbers 1-10, 11-20, 21-31 etc and all routes based off that, with other services taking numbers as appropriate.
I honestly can't see this happening though. Why print thousands of timetables only to redo them as soon as ND is finished and this part kicks off. Also the likes of the 46a will be seen as too iconic to change and some councillor or other will complain that it'll confuse the elderly or some such BS

SafetyPin · 20-10-2010 12:57pm

ardmacha wrote: »

Might there not be a case for using the review to renumber the 17A bus? Having an "A" variation that is entirely distant and from the 17 is a bit odd and probably causes someone confusion at some time.

But that would cause much more confusion with the passengers who are familiar with the route number itself.

thomasj · 20-10-2010 2:09pm

Not if the people are informed of this!

Dublin Bus Network Review

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