Dublin Bus Network Review

markpb

CIE wrote: »

Still not clear which route that the new 79 is supposed to take towards Beaumont Hospital. The PDF file on DB's web site said that the northern terminus was supposed to be Castletimon, too.

My understanding is that it will go from Heuston along the quays to the existing 27b terminus at Liberty Hall. From there, it will follow the 27b route along Amiens St, Fairview, Malahide road, Artane roundabout, Ardlea, Kilmore, Kilbarron, Trim (into the Hospital), Kilbarron and into Castletimon.

devnull

Route 40d
Tyrrelstown » Ballycoolin Road » Cappagh Hospital » Cardiffsbridge Road » Tolka Valley Road » Finglas Road »
Whitworth Road » Dorset Street » O’Connell Street » Cathal Brugha Street » Parnell Street

Seems a bit silly, and adding extra time onto the journey for the sake of it? Why not just terminate at Parnell Street as normal without the somewhat needless O'Connell Street -> Cathal Brugha Street -> Parnell Street loop.

thomasj

Anyone notice New timetables for 123, 130, 747

devnull

KC61 wrote: »

Ballyfermot and Finglas South were never in the list of major phases - they are fairly minor changes in the greater context.

You yourself said in the past that Finglas changes were in phase 2, and Dublin Bus even stated this on their website not so long ago, so yes they have changed it in their rush to save costs, which is what this is really about at the end of the day.

Is it really too hard to ask that they sort the original problems which have been well debated about on this board, before they embank on further changes which will create problems of their own.

There are problems on many routes right now which have been changed there are wrong timetables up, no information at some stops , so why don't we sort all this out, or are we waiting for the problem to be so big it's near impossible to solve due to the sheer scale of it.

CIE

markpb wrote: »

My understanding is that it will go from Heuston along the quays to the existing 27b terminus at Liberty Hall. From there, it will follow the 27b route along Amiens St, Fairview, Malahide road, Artane roundabout, Ardlea, Kilmore, Kilbarron, Trim (into the Hospital), Kilbarron and into Castletimon.

Thanks. What happens to the extant 27B, whose terminus is in Harristown? I have no idea if there has been any established passenger base between Fairview, Artane, Kilmore et al and Harristown, which is why I ask.

kc61 wrote: »

For about the umpteenth time - the 79/A are merging with the 27B

That's all right. Dublin Bus still aren't clear on it, and have not really clarified for the umpteenth time. The umpire hasn't called them on it.

angel01

Why are they having a consultation session only for people living in Finglas South/West?

They expect everyone to get there by 6pm, they do realise people actually work in town or further out :eek: What about those who don't finish work till 5 or 5.30 and they are expected to get there in such a short period of time :rolleyes:

What about those who don't live in Finglas, they have cast those aside. Why can't they have a session in Tyrrelstown (where the terminus actually is :rolleyes:) Another own goal by Dublin Bus :mad:

markpb

CIE wrote: »

Thanks. What happens to the extant 27B, whose terminus is in Harristown?

It's northern terminus is being returned to it's original terminus at Castletimon.

I have no idea if there has been any established passenger base between Fairview, Artane, Kilmore et al and Harristown

I don't think anyone uses it between Coolock Lane / Swords road Harristown - I always assumed the terminus was H'town so the drivers had toilet and food facilities for their breaks. Personally I think changing the terminus from H'town to the airport would make more sense. It would create a direct link to the airport from the east of the city, something that is currently missing.

AlekSmart

There are problems on many routes right now which have been changed there are wrong timetables up, no information at some stops , so why don't we sort all this out, or are we waiting for the problem to be so big it's near impossible to solve due to the sheer scale of it.

There is a great deal of logic in what Devnull posts here and I feel that the powers that be ignore this at their peril.

It is more than apparent now that the failures of Phase 1 of Network Direct did not emanate from the tried and trusted "usual suspects" of company/union or inter-union disputes.

Network Direct is the first major change programme in my memory where Company and Union`s engaged in a programme of reasoned negotiation which resulted in the unimpeded implimentation of this major change.

That in itslef is worthy of note.

However we have as yet little to match the original well publicised projected outcomes for it,for which it is worth referencing KC61`s post #1 of the thread...

From the RTE News website:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0422/dublinbus.html

Dublin Bus to change and combine routes
Thursday, 22 April 2010 07:59

Dublin Bus has announced it is to change the majority of its routes over the coming months.

The company said the redesign of its network comes after more than a year of consultation.

Dublin Bus said the changes will increase the frequency and efficiency of its service.

The overall number of routes is to be increased, but some existing routes will be straightened out with fewer diversions off quality bus corridors, while others will be combined.

Dublin Bus said this will make it easier to travel across the city without changing buses.

It says the average waiting time between services will be five minutes.

A real-time passenger information service will also be rolled-out later this year.

On RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Dublin Bus spokeswoman Clíodhna Ní Fhátharta said under the new plan there would be a reduction of up to 150 staff. She said it hopes to achieve this on a voluntary basis.

The company said the changes will be implemented on a phased basis.

As Devnull correctly notes,if there are inherent failures of appreciation within Phase 1,then it`s of primary importance to solve these as the integrity of the plan as a whole is at stake.

Yet again I`ll personally nail my colours as being in favour of the Network Direct consept and the benefits it can offer Dublin Bus customers and Public Transport users generally...but only if all concerned appreciate the depth of scale and pull away from the idea of tinkering and tweaking highly suspect core elements.

KC61

CIE wrote: »

Thanks. What happens to the extant 27B, whose terminus is in Harristown? I have no idea if there has been any established passenger base between Fairview, Artane, Kilmore et al and Harristown, which is why I ask.That's all right. Dublin Bus still aren't clear on it, and have not really clarified for the umpteenth time. The umpire hasn't called them on it.

Sorry - but it was posted here several times!

KC61

devnull wrote: »

You yourself said in the past that Finglas changes were in phase 2, and Dublin Bus even stated this on their website not so long ago, so yes they have changed it in their rush to save costs, which is what this is really about at the end of the day.

Is it really too hard to ask that they sort the original problems which have been well debated about on this board, before they embank on further changes which will create problems of their own.

There are problems on many routes right now which have been changed there are wrong timetables up, no information at some stops , so why don't we sort all this out, or are we waiting for the problem to be so big it's near impossible to solve due to the sheer scale of it.

Well Ballyfermot certainly wasn't mentioned in the original phasing. I certainly heard many months back (I may not have posted that here) that there might be some minor changes outside the major phasing and the 78a/40 was merger certainly one of those.

AlekSmart

Why are they having a consultation session only for people living in Finglas South/West?

Angel101`s question highlights one of my personal problems with the manner in which Network Direct is being implemented.

Given that Mssrs Deloitte had,at the direction of Minister Dempsey,engaged in a thorough revision of Dublin Bus`s operations and with the assistance of some of the most experienced and highly regarded specialist Public Transport consultants around,I cannot see the need for the "Public Consultation" phase to be embarked upon at this 11 th hour stage.

I would have fully expected the finished Deloitte Report "Package" to have been produced only after they themselves had "proofed" it by undertaking this vital element as an integral (there`s that word again) part of the report itself.

My interpretation is that we now have an overall plan produced by expensively retained "Experts" being comprehensively unravelled by as many sectional groups as can be found in Dublin itself.

The Public Consultation needed to be carried out by the reports compilers and not by Dublin Bus.

Cookie_Monster

What giveth,Cookie_Monster is what has come to be the defining element of Network Direct thus far,namely,a complete lack of appreciation of the term..."Running Time".
I rather suspect that the 84`s are unable to make their new improved running time and are being regulated by Central Control in an attempt to cobble together a service.

sigh, if it's not serving those areas why even bother running it. Run it to the 145 and that's it as its no different after that. same service, greater frequency, less of everyone's time wasted on stupid BS reasons for skipping areas.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Given that Mssrs Deloitte had,at the direction of Minister Dempsey,engaged in a thorough revision of Dublin Bus`s operations and with the assistance of some of the most experienced and highly regarded specialist Public Transport consultants around,I cannot see the need for the "Public Consultation" phase to be embarked upon at this 11 th hour stage.

Indeed. The limit of public consultation should be: "here are the new routes and timetables, you have 2 weeks to get used to them, deal with it. Thanks for coming."

stop

KC61 wrote: »

Full revised timetables for Blanchardstown:

Route 17a

Route 37

Route 38

Route 38a

Route 39

Route 39a

Route 70

Route 220

Route 236

Route 238

Route 239

Route 270

10, 10a, 237 withdrawn. No change to 76a at this stage.

And naturally, the bus stop locations are not working on those new timetable pages. We'll change the route, but we're not telling you where it's going to stop. Bravo Dublin Bus, bravo.:rolleyes:

Heart

Quote:
Route 40d
Tyrrelstown » Ballycoolin Road » Cappagh Hospital » Cardiffsbridge Road » Tolka Valley Road » Finglas Road »
Whitworth Road » Dorset Street » O’Connell Street » Cathal Brugha Street » Parnell Street
Seems a bit silly, and adding extra time onto the journey for the sake of it? Why not just terminate at Parnell Street as normal without the somewhat needless O'Connell Street -> Cathal Brugha Street -> Parnell Street loop.

I assume this is to allow the 40 & 40d to both share a stop on Parnell Square West northbound as the pdf for the Finglas area says the 40 will have times from Parnell Square West available. Terminating the 40d on the opposite side of Parnell St. will allow it to access Parnell Square West like the 120 does at present. This will mean the new 40 & 40d will not serve Gardiner St. outbound anymore.

H

January

CIE wrote: »

And re-amalgamating the 40 and 40A? Repeating a past mistake that they had to undo?? Reminds me of the proverb about the dog returning to its emesis. (Ah, but maybe the 140 solves all of that, or maybe not.) The 17A/220 amalgamation will destroy reliability too. How about re-using some disused bus route numbers as well? The 83 is long enough established as the McKelvey Avenue/Harristown route, so why not call the 40D by the number 34 (would fit better with 38 and 39 in the Blanchardstown area) and change the 40B to the 35 once and for all (it's been running over the old 35 route for ages).Lack of accountability to the public? They made the exact same promises twenty years ago when they blew public money on the various "branding" of routes, especially CitySwift and City Imp (CitySpeed to a lesser degree, today's "Xpresso"; I prefer the former name because the latter name gives me heartburn)..."frequency every five minutes", "no waiting for a bus", "QBCs will change traffic lights in bus' favour", blah blah blah. The vast majority of the public are not muppet-heads and do know what's going on; the people at the top should not mistake sarcasm for apathy.

They're not amalgamating the 220/17a routes, they're going to be separate routes.

ETA: Just read the Finglas changes and it looks to me like DB are trying to make people think there will be no 220 so decreased interest = cut route in a couple of months time. Going to ring DB over this on Tuesday.

ANNNDDDD the f*ckers have cut the 7.30 morning bus towards Finglas, which is the bus most of the kids going to Mater Christi/Colaiste Eoin use to ensure they get to school on time. And the bus in the evening is not arriving in Finglas till 17.07 a full HOUR after they finish school. arghhhh

richardjjd

Route 40d
Tyrrelstown » Ballycoolin Road » Cappagh Hospital » Cardiffsbridge Road » Tolka Valley Road » Finglas Road »
Whitworth Road » Dorset Street » O’Connell Street » Cathal Brugha Street » Parnell Street

I thought they were going to straighten out the 40d by bringing it straight onto Finglas Road (rather than through Cardiffsbridge / Tolka Valley) and then making it an express from there to the city centre?

Does the Cathal Brugha loop mean that the 40D terminus will be on the south side of Parnell Street and will have to loop via Cathal Brugha St again on the outbound journey?

January

richardjjd wrote: »

I thought they were going to straighten out the 40d by bringing it straight onto Finglas Road (rather than through Cardiffsbridge / Tolka Valley) and then making it an express from there to the city centre?

Does the Cathal Brugha loop mean that the 40D terminus will be on the south side of Parnell Street and will have to loop via Cathal Brugha St again on the outbound journey?

It'll be on the O'Connell St Side of Parnell Street, you can go straight onto Parnell Sq from there and up by the Rotunda onto Dorset St.

thomasj

They'd nearly be better off getting a 17a to the centre!

One thing I noticed is the new busstop just after total fitness is a Dublin bus one yellow busstop now up! It has me wondering will buses using the bypass come up the sliproad at the hospital entrance to total fitness and stop at that stop. It might be a consolation to the cuts to services in the village!

devnull

richardjjd wrote: »

I thought they were going to straighten out the 40d by bringing it straight onto Finglas Road (rather than through Cardiffsbridge / Tolka Valley) and then making it an express from there to the city centre?

It is ridiculous, rather than straighten the 40D out, it seems what they have done is make the route, longer by that silly needless loop through Cathal Bruga Street, and kept the rest of the route the same, despite from reviewing this thread they have been saying something totally different for the last six months and that they would bypass a large area to make the service quicker, which they now appear to have backtracked on.

They also state the following:
Route 40D will provide a more direct service to the city by operating through South Finglas and Tolka Valley Road to the N3. It will bypass Finglas Village saving up to 8 minutes on journey times.

But it does not go through Finglas Village anyway, so what we now have is a route that has been reduced by 8 minutes, and a stupid circular extension that instead of going left into Parnell Street at the bottom now goes down O'Connell Street then round the corner, then to end up on the same street as it could have turned onto directly five minutes earlier, but on the other side of the road.

Then to top it all off, outbound buses will then go down Parnell Square and the whole length of Dorset Street, to go directly into the worst of the peak traffic, which will also increase journey times. The irony of the whole thing? The project is called Network DIRECT when the new route is anything but, and adds in a silly indirect loop and down busier roads!

dub_commuter

If I lived in Tyrrelstown I'd be more worried about the statement about the N3 - where the hell does that come into it?

In addition it's been heard they will only operate outside the Estate at Tyrrelstown, like happened during the snow this year. If anyone is reading this an wants clarification on what stop this is, this is the second stop on route 38C and 236 outbound and the second last stop on both those routes inbound.

The earlier response, several times emailed to residents and also posted on their own website says:

Route 40d’s alignment will be adjusted to offer faster journey times to the City Centre. It will operate via Ballycoolin Road, Mellowes Road to Finglas Village and then direct to Parnell Street.

What we have ended up with is something different altogether, and the consultation being in the place where it is and the times it is as Angel01 has observed, will mean that residents will not get their say.

There is also talk of the first bus being half an hour later than currently, which is a disgrace if true, as the 6.35 and 6.50 to Town are always jammers every morning.

devnull

The N3? Isn't that Navan Road?

Six months ago I posted this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65624077&highlight=Navan+Road#post65624077

dub_commuter

As usual with Dublin Bus, having looked at the map, I'm sure they mean the N2 which is Finglas Road

Also the route of 17A is highly entertaining, particularly the:
Klbarrack -> Whitworth Road -> Oscar Traynor Road bit.

That's quite some diversion!!!!

Seriously cop on to yourselves Dublin Bus, does nobody review this stuff before they publish it. The standard of information is dreadful.

KC61

devnull wrote: »

It is ridiculous, rather than straighten the 40D out, it seems what they have done is make the route, longer by that silly needless loop through Cathal Bruga Street, and kept the rest of the route the same, despite from reviewing this thread they have been saying something totally different for the last six months and that they would bypass a large area to make the service quicker, which they now appear to have backtracked on.

They also state the following:
Route 40D will provide a more direct service to the city by operating through South Finglas and Tolka Valley Road to the N3. It will bypass Finglas Village saving up to 8 minutes on journey times.

But it does not go through Finglas Village anyway, so what we now have is a route that has been reduced by 8 minutes, and a stupid circular extension that instead of going left into Parnell Street at the bottom now goes down O'Connell Street then round the corner, then to end up on the same street as it could have turned onto directly five minutes earlier, but on the other side of the road.

Then to top it all off, outbound buses will then go down Parnell Square and the whole length of Dorset Street, to go directly into the worst of the peak traffic, which will also increase journey times. The irony of the whole thing? The project is called Network DIRECT when the new route is anything but, and adds in a silly indirect loop and down busier roads!

I am assuming the reason for the 40D loop is so that it and the 40 will be stopping at the same stops from Parnell Square outward thereby having the two routes serving the same stops. That would sound logical to me. Hardly that big a deal - there are bus lanes along all of that stretch.

I think that the real issue is routing the 40d through south Finglas rather than via Mellowes Road and the N2. That´s probably something that will be decided on the basis of the feedback that they get.

KC61

devnull wrote: »

The N3? Isn't that Navan Road?

Six months ago I posted this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65624077&highlight=Navan+Road#post65624077

I´d be pretty sure that should read N2.

KC61

dub_commuter wrote: »

If I lived in Tyrrelstown I'd be more worried about the statement about the N3 - where the hell does that come into it?

In addition it's been heard they will only operate outside the Estate at Tyrrelstown, like happened during the snow this year. If anyone is reading this an wants clarification on what stop this is, this is the second stop on route 38C and 236 outbound and the second last stop on both those routes inbound.

The earlier response, several times emailed to residents and also posted on their own website says:



What we have ended up with is something different altogether, and the consultation being in the place where it is and the times it is as Angel01 has observed, will mean that residents will not get their say.

There is also talk of the first bus being half an hour later than currently, which is a disgrace if true, as the 6.35 and 6.50 to Town are always jammers every morning.

I can´t imagine the early morning times changing - the company´s policy is first bus at or around 06:30.

As for not being able to get your say - I´d agree about the times, but there is nothing stopping anyone ringing up or emailing them.

angel01

KC61 wrote: »

I can´t imagine the early morning times changing - the company´s policy is first bus at or around 06:30.

As for not being able to get your say - I´d agree about the times, but there is nothing stopping anyone ringing up or emailing them.

In the past, I have rung up, left a message and emailed them and got no response, I can't see this being any different.

Seems that DB couldn't give a stuff about anyone other than Finglas passengers.

angel01

adrieanne__x wrote: »

It'll be on the O'Connell St Side of Parnell Street, you can go straight onto Parnell Sq from there and up by the Rotunda onto Dorset St.

Seems a longer way than what currently happens

devnull

KC61 wrote: »

I think that the real issue is routing the 40d through south Finglas rather than via Mellowes Road and the N2. That´s probably something that will be decided on the basis of the feedback that they get.

I think what really irritates people is that what is being published by Dublin Bus, and said by Dublin bus at times has no basis on reality, and is clearly made by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

For example, in the Finglas PDF, there are the following issues:

• The Map for the 40D shows a little different route to the description
• The 17A route mentions Whitworth Road - nowhere near this route
• The 40D mentions the N3, when it clearly is the N2 road.

To quote Dublin Bus the 40D will "bypass Finglas Village saving up to 8 minutes on journey times."

The 40D does not operate via Finglas village anyway, but they claim to have made a time saving of 8 minutes. That is really scary that they seem to think they have improved the route and knocked eight minutes off the journey time, only for the route to be exactly the same apart from a very small increase in distance at the end with the loop previously mentioned.

Lets hope the schedules when developed do not reflect an 8 minute decrease in journey time via a more direct route, because if so we will have issues with running time, once again as the people in the Network Direct office, once again have proven they are not living in the real world.

Chuchoter

God the 239 has been absolutely decimated, they've halved the number of times.

europhile

KD345 wrote: »

This will be the new terminus for routes 37, 38, 38a, 39 and 70.

What is the route going to be?

Along Baggot Street, right onto Waterloo Road and right onto Burlington Road?

And what way back? Onto the canal and over Baggot Street Bridge?