Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

awec · 20-10-2013 11:46pm

Bridge93 wrote: »

Is he still with Ulster or is he in Japan?

He's at Ulster.

P.Walnuts · 20-10-2013 11:46pm

awec wrote: »

Hopefully back playing December / January.

Whether he's actually in contention for 6N is another thing altogether, I suspect it'll take him a while to get back up to speed, and then you have to wonder if he will actually get back to what he was.

My worry isn't will he get back to where he was, it's how long he will stay there before another injury

Bridge93 · 20-10-2013 11:51pm

P.Walnuts wrote: »

My worry isn't will he get back to where he was, it's how long he will stay there before another injury

Exactly that's the only reason I'd be iffy about picking him. He's easily the best 6 Ireland have but if you're only going to get one maybe two games before he breaks down we may be better off sticking with O Mahony as a consistently top performer, without the impact of Ferris but someone who you can build into reasonably consistent team.

Almaviva · 20-10-2013 11:53pm

Bridge93 wrote: »

Exactly that's the only reason I'd be iffy about picking him. He's easily the best 6 Ireland have but if you're only going to get one maybe two games before he breaks down we may be better off sticking with O Mahony as a consistently top performer, without the impact of Ferris but someone who you can build into reasonably consistent team.

And keep Ferris for the Grand Slam game in Paris if he gets through a couple of Ulster games in the new year.

Mahatma Geansai · 20-10-2013 11:56pm

former legend wrote: »

Yeah it'll be something very close to that.

Really, with Zebo out, Strauss out and Ferris out, the only questions are over 5 and 12. O''Mahony ended any debate about McLaughlin on Saturday.

There was debate about McLaughlin starting? He'll be doing very well to be making the 23 in the Autumn when you see the form of Wilson and Henry. Pity that TOD's out

.

Hagz · 21-10-2013 12:05am

If Ferris is fit and hits form then that's all that matters. This line of logic of "oh what if he breaks after one game, better not play him" is rubbish. If he breaks again, so what? O'Mahony steps in and does his job like a professional. O'Mahony will still be in the squad when both are fit. You cannot exclude an option like Ferris simply because of hypotheticals.

Swan Curry · 21-10-2013 12:21am

Hagz wrote: »

If Ferris is fit and hits form then that's all that matters. This line of logic of "oh what if he breaks after one game, better not play him" is rubbish. If he breaks again, so what? O'Mahony steps in and does his job like a professional. O'Mahony will still be in the squad when both are fit. You cannot exclude an option like Ferris simply because of hypotheticals.

You can exclude Ferris from being an option because him being injured is not a hypothetical,it's almost a certainty at this point.He's only just gotten out of a moon boot,he won't be back for Autumn,he probably won't be there for the 6 Nations and sadly,he's going to have to start thinking seriously about retirement if he ends this season with another injury.

Hagz · 21-10-2013 12:27am

We all know he's currently injured. It says so like 5/6 comments up. But using the logic that even when he gets back fit that he'll just break after one/two games is a joke. In such case it doesn't matter whether he gets back to fitness from here onwards, as you won't pick him anyway. He might as well retire now if Schmidt adopts that logic (which he obviously won't).

Swan Curry · 21-10-2013 12:38am

Hagz wrote: »

We all know he's currently injured. It says so like 5/6 comments up. But using the logic that even when he gets back fit that he'll just break after one/two games is a joke.

It's not a joke,it's what happened to him last year and it's what will probably happen to him again.Do you see Ferris being fit for an extended period of his career again?

In such case it doesn't matter whether he gets back to fitness from here onwards, as you won't pick him anyway.He might as well retire now if Schmidt adopts that logic (which he obviously won't).

By all means,pick him when he's fit,but Schmidt has to plan ahead,and Ferris can't be a main feature in a long-term plan because he currently has no long-term future,just a few more games when he returns before he breaks down,like he did last year.

RosConn13 · 21-10-2013 1:21am

Team I'd love to see, given current injuries.

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross..Moore if he's injured
4. DOC..Havnt seen Touhy really and think DOC is the form lock
5. POC
6. Henderson
7. SOB
8. POM
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. Marshall
13. BOD (Capt)
14. Bowe
15. Earls..Solid under high ball and think he has so much ability with ball in hand to be out on the wing.

16. Cronin (Sherry untill last week)
17. Cronin (ahead of Kilcoyne for me)
18. Moore (Bent if Ross is injured)
19. Ryan
20. Heaslip
21. Marmion
22. Madigan
23. Olding

Never been a fan of Heaslip or Rob Kearney really, even though there both top players. Bar control at the back of the scrum I think O'Mahony is a better player.
Bent seemed to do very well against Castres so he edges out Archer,if he keeps it up.

former legend · 21-10-2013 7:16am

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

There was debate about McLaughlin starting? He'll be doing very well to be making the 23 in the Autumn when you see the form of Wilson and Henry..

Meh, not really, I was more making the point that O'Mahony is now the undisputed first choice at six. Don't think Wilson will come into the equation at all, barring more injuries.

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Pity that TOD's out .

It's not really, where would you put him? He's light-years from competing for the 7 jersey and someone like Henry offers much more cover off the bench.

irishbucsfan · 21-10-2013 10:02am

Joe Schmidt saying the usual "I'd Sean O'Brien moves to France he'll have a shorter career" thing today.

I'd love to see where the evidence of this actually is. If there's any country in Europe that seems to lose back rows early to injury it seems to be Ireland.

Buer · 21-10-2013 10:12am

Schmidt is just playing the game. He coached there and knows full well exactly how things go in France. His former club, Clermont, have Vermeulen, Bonnaire and Vosloo in the back row all of whom turn 35 this season and have had extremely successful careers.

The foreign player, Vosloo, has payed 135 games in France since going there despite breaking a couple of bones and being ruled out for significant periods. He's going strong into his mid-thirties and starting regularly.

21-10-2013 10:12am

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

An average international centre is still better than any of our other options who are average at Rabo/HEC level.

why can't you comprehend that playing Earls at Outside Centre means that we then can't play Earls on the wing?

We have one of him.

His best position is on the wing.

11. Earls
13. Cave

is better than
11. McFadden
13. Earls

You simply cannot say A > B and that's that in a multi-variate problem.

Here's two backline of 'abililities'. I'll bold Earls and leave everyone else's identity shrouded in mystery.

9 8.5 8.5
10 9 9
11 7 8
12 7.5 7.5
13 7 6.5
14 8.5 8.5
15 8 8

Which backline is better? The one with Earls at 13 or at 11?

irishbucsfan · 21-10-2013 10:32am

I'd have Fitzgerald ahead of McFadden. I'd also love to give Morris a shot against Samoa.

Earls or Cave are a close contest for me. I'd really like to see Marshall at 13 though. Him and D'Arcy would be my favourite starting combination.

Mahatma Geansai · 21-10-2013 11:07am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

why can't you comprehend that playing Earls at Outside Centre means that we then can't play Earls on the wing?

We have one of him.

His best position is on the wing.

11. Earls
13. Cave

is better than
11. McFadden
13. Earls

You simply cannot say A > B and that's that in a multi-variate problem.

Here's two backline of 'abililities'. I'll bold Earls and leave everyone else's identity shrouded in mystery.

9 8.5 8.5
10 9 9
11 7 8
12 7.5 7.5
13 7 6.5
14 8.5 8.5
15 8 8

Which backline is better? The one with Earls at 13 or at 11?

Despite the fact that you've created a data set to suit your argument, surely our resident statistician can recognise the importance of using some sort of weighting in all of this. Unless you are stating that wing and centre are equally important positions?

jm08 · 21-10-2013 11:08am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd have Fitzgerald ahead of McFadden. I'd also love to give Morris a shot against Samoa.

Earls or Cave are a close contest for me. I'd really like to see Marshall at 13 though. Him and D'Arcy would be my favourite starting combination.

Cave didn't make the last squad and Schmidt is saying that he is going to trim it down more.

Away from the continuing contract negotiations, Schmidt revealed that he will begin to whittle his original 42-man squad down to a more manageable figure this week.

It is, he admitted, not a task he is looking forward to but is one he absolutely will not delegate to one of his lieutenants – either Les Kiss or John Plumtree.

21-10-2013 11:08am

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Despite the fact that you've created a data set to suit your argument, surely our resident statistician can recognise the importance of using some sort of weighting in all of this. Unless you are stating that wing and centre are equally important positions?

Do you really want to do this again?

irishbucsfan · 21-10-2013 11:14am

jm08 wrote: »

Cave didn't make the last squad and Schmidt is saying that he is going to trim it down more.

Doesn't mean he won't add others to it though.

jm08 · 21-10-2013 11:20am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Doesn't mean he won't add others to it though.

If Cave couldn't make the 42 man squad, its hard to see how he can make a smaller one.

I think his pace is the reason - and there is nothing he can do about that to improve it.

.ak · 21-10-2013 11:23am

I'd be very surprised if Cave doesn't make the squad with a injury doubt hanging over BOD.

awec · 21-10-2013 11:24am

jm08 wrote: »

If Cave couldn't make the 42 man squad, its hard to see how he can make a smaller one.

I think his pace is the reason - and there is nothing he can do about that to improve it.

While he's not as fast as a typical winger he's not exactly slow...

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 21-10-2013 11:24am

jm08 wrote: »

If Cave couldn't make the 42 man squad, its hard to see how he can make a smaller one.

I think his pace is the reason - and there is nothing he can do about that to improve it.

His pace wasn't the reason, he just wasn't playing as well over the last six months

He has put in a big shift over the weekend that should see him back in contention

dtpc191991 · 21-10-2013 11:26am

jm08 wrote: »

If Cave couldn't make the 42 man squad, its hard to see how he can make a smaller one.

I think his pace is the reason - and there is nothing he can do about that to improve it.

That isn't true Cave may not have made the last squad because Schmidt saw BOD as the incumbent and did not see Cave as a long term option for the future. However that does not mean that if BOD was injured come November and Cave was the best stop gap option he would not be called up.

former legend · 21-10-2013 11:30am

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

His pace wasn't the reason, he just wasn't playing as well over the last six months

He has put in a big shift over the weekend that should see him back in contention

I'm baffled that we're discussing Earls as a potential centre when he's in such great form on the wing.

But Darren Cave showed on Saturday what sets a genuine 13 apart from a converted winger. His hands and his vision are just streets ahead of Earls or McFadden IMO. Watch the Ulster try for Saturday for an example; he's been doing it for yonks.

dtpc191991 · 21-10-2013 11:38am

On the point of wingers where is Gilroy atm, is he injured again?

P.Walnuts · 21-10-2013 11:43am

Deleted User wrote: »

why can't you comprehend that playing Earls at Outside Centre means that we then can't play Earls on the wing?

We have one of him.

His best position is on the wing.

11. Earls
13. Cave

is better than
11. McFadden
13. Earls

You simply cannot say A > B and that's that in a multi-variate problem.

Here's two backline of 'abililities'. I'll bold Earls and leave everyone else's identity shrouded in mystery.

9 8.5 8.5
10 9 9
11 7 8
12 7.5 7.5
13 7 6.5
14 8.5 8.5
15 8 8

Which backline is better? The one with Earls at 13 or at 11?

This is a strange post...

Are you pretty much saying "you can' argue with my opinion, here is some data I made up on the spot to prove my point"?

Blindside87 · 21-10-2013 12:07pm

I have to say I would have Fitzpatrick as the starting/benching tighthead for the AI's. He is the best scrummaging tighthead we have and will definitely make the bench or maybe start if Ross is injured. Very underrated player I think...possibly because he has been injured the last few seasons but definitely more than able to hold a scrum (this from a leinster fan).

bilston · 21-10-2013 12:10pm

jm08 wrote: »

If Cave couldn't make the 42 man squad, its hard to see how he can make a smaller one.

I think his pace is the reason - and there is nothing he can do about that to improve it.

If BOD is a doubt and Earls is required to play on the wing then I'd be amazed if another centre wasn't added to the squad. It won't necessarily be Cave but I'd be surprised if it wasn't.

jm08 · 21-10-2013 12:19pm

former legend wrote: »

I'm baffled that we're discussing Earls as a potential centre when he's in such great form on the wing.

But Darren Cave showed on Saturday what sets a genuine 13 apart from a converted winger. His hands and his vision are just streets ahead of Earls or McFadden IMO. Watch the Ulster try for Saturday for an example; he's been doing it for yonks.

You only see Cave at Provincial/Club level. According to the experts, international rugby is about 20% faster than Heineken Cup, so maybe that is why Cave looks to have great vision, speed of though etc. at HC/Rabo level.

The other thing .... Rob Kearney or Felix Jones are no Jared Payne (who everyone seem to think will be in the 13 slot as soon as he is IQ.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

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