Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

phog

phog wrote: »

Would Jimmy Gopperth get a spot in the AIs if he was IQ?

Hi Phog.

Up Munster.

All else irrelevant right?

(And not a chance - PJ nailed on)

My dearest apologies for questioning the logic behind proposing Munster's best winger this season playing out of position for Ireland. Obviously I should be equally questioning the idea of Fitzgerald and Bowe playing there or Danie Poolman (in the interest of fairness of course).

Lets be frank. No wingers at 13 please.

dtpc191991

Racing doing badly that's not good for us if Sexton is playing poorly.

Tox56

Fitzgerald is just so so good, seeing him live for the first time in a long time is a great reminder, he came off the bench and looked a cut above. It may not be a 'form call' given how little he's played but we have to involve him somewhere, if Earls at 13 means we get all 3 of Bowe/Earls/Fitzgerald on the field it has it's merits. I'd be tempted to see what Fitz himself is like in the centre too (12 or 13), there was a great moment today where he came infield and set SOB up on a big break down the field, he'd be great there but I wouldn't expect Schmidt to gamble that much. If MOC gives him some more games though it's something to think about further along the line

bilston

Wrt to Sexton was he offered any other deals in France? Imagine Sexton in the Toulouse side.

Tox56

bilston wrote: »

Wrt to Sexton was he offered any other deals in France? Imagine Sexton in the Toulouse side.

Supposedly they didn't expect him to actually leave, I think I heard Clermont only came in at the last minute when they realised he was going

bilston

Tox56 wrote: »

Supposedly they didn't expect him to actually leave, I think I heard Clermont only came in at the last minute when they realised he was going

Without going over old ground it seems a waste really.

On todays' games I wonder is there any mileage in bringing Wilson into the fold. He has been outstanding recently. Thing is he is 32 and obviously not as good as Heaslip but I dont see a better 8 in Ireland at the moment outside of Jamie.

Howard Juneau

bilston wrote: »

Without going over old ground it seems a waste really.

On todays' games I wonder is there any mileage in bringing Wilson into the fold. He has been outstanding recently. Thing is he is 32 and obviously not as good as Heaslip but I dont see a better 8 in Ireland at the moment outside of Jamie.

You're not looking hard enough

Tox56

bilston wrote: »

Without going over old ground it seems a waste really.

On todays' games I wonder is there any mileage in bringing Wilson into the fold. He has been outstanding recently. Thing is he is 32 and obviously not as good as Heaslip but I dont see a better 8 in Ireland at the moment outside of Jamie.

I think POM and SOB cover 8 well enough to not need a Wilson or a Coughlan and they're better off bringing in a Jordi Murphy to experience the squad. I suppose there's no harm in bringing Wilson in but if the management are just going to revert to POM or SOB at 8 when forced to make a decision, the space is probably better used on a younger player.

bilston

Howard Juneau wrote: »

You're not looking hard enough

Oh ok, I will look harder then

Fireball07

If Cave is playing well, perfectly happy to see him at 13. Would be interesting to see Luke there, although if he doesn't play there for Leinster, can't really see it.

bilston

Fireball07 wrote: »

If Cave is playing well, perfectly happy to see him at 13. Would be interesting to see Luke there, although if he doesn't play there for Leinster, can't really see it.

Cave was excellent today and last week too actually. I suppose the thing about Cave is that he would be a safe pair of hands if he was just filling in for a game or two. Im not sure he is a long term option, but as I said earlier maybe deserves the chance alongside the first team, but then hr wasnt in the training squad in sept so is presumably a bit down the queue.

Fireball07

bilston wrote: »

Cave was excellent today and last week too actually. I suppose the thing about Cave is that he would be a safe pair of hands if he was just filling in for a game or two. Im not sure he is a long term option, but as I said earlier maybe deserves the chance alongside the first team, but then hr wasnt in the training squad in sept so is presumably a bit down the queue.

I'd prefer Earls to start on the wing.
McFadden isn't a great 13.
Luke hasn't played 13 in ages.
Griffin has had injury setbacks.
Macken probably isn't experienced enough yet.
Olding is subbing for Ulster.


Meaning it's Cave V D'Arcy V Henshaw as far as I can see. I'd give Cave the edge there.

phog

Deleted User wrote: »

Hi Phog.

Up Munster.

All else irrelevant right?

(And not a chance - PJ nailed on)

My dearest apologies for questioning the logic behind proposing Munster's best winger this season playing out of position for Ireland. Obviously I should be equally questioning the idea of Fitzgerald and Bowe playing there or Danie Poolman (in the interest of fairness of course).

Lets be frank. No wingers at 13 please.

There's probably as many posts for Madigan at Ourhalf as there is for Earls for Outside centre.

Earls might well be a better winger than centre but imho he's the best replacement (if needed) for BOD in the short term.

danthefan

phog wrote: »

There's probably as many posts for Madigan at Ourhalf as there is for Earls for Outside centre.

Earls might well be a better winger than centre but imho he's the best replacement (if needed) for BOD in the short term.

Quote/link some of them there, cheers. Recent ones in particular.

Edit - Actually, don't. The discussion was about Earls and you obviously had to come out with some totally unrelated, obtuse nonsense to do with Leinster in reply. Good for you.

phog

danthefan wrote: »

Quote/link some of them there, cheers. Recent ones in particular.

.

I'm not sure if it's me or boards.ie but generally I hate using the search function on here but this really isn't much of a challenge.

Here

Here

Here

Here

Here This one is a beauty as Madigan hadn't yet played this season.

etc, etc, etc.

Edit - Actually, don't. The discussion was about Earls and you obviously had to come out with some totally unrelated, obtuse nonsense to do with Leinster in reply. Good for you

Yes, the discussion was around who'd play if BOD wasn't available and if I'm understanding Emmett's post correctly is if Earls is such a good centre then why is Laulala starting at Munster and would he also start for Ireland if he was IQ.

If that was his point then surely the same point can be made about who'd our backup outhalf would be.

My post had nothing to do with Leinster other than Madigan as a probability for Ireland happens to play for Leinster and has in general been behind Gopperth so far this season.

Bridge93

Surely if earls is the form winger you play him on the wing. If he's in great form on the wing we shouldn't be moving him out of his best position. the team should accommodate our form players as far as I'm concerned not the other way round. Build a team around players in positions they are performing.
Also I believe this 13 question is a short term discussion. Surely when he qualifies Jared Payne is nailed on for the 13 shirt? Think it's next year he qualifies.

danthefan

phog wrote: »

My post had nothing to do with Leinster

Haha, good one. We all believe you. Neither was this I guess.

And posts from the start of September, as I said, irrelevant. Loads has happened since then, mainly Madigan has been dropped and Jackson has performed. They'd even be irrelevant to the discussion of who should be backup 10, never mind who'd be backup 13.

its_phil

Bridge93 wrote: »

Also I believe this 13 question is a short term discussion. Surely when he qualifies Jared Payne is nailed on for the 13 shirt? Think it's next year he qualifies.

He absolutely is not. He has got Henshaw, Olding, Griffin, Macken and even Marshall to contend with it. I've always rated Payne, but I certainly don't think he's guarenteed a place with Ireland when the most of the guys above are more than capable especially Henshaw and Olding.

Podge_irl

its_phil wrote: »

He absolutely is not. He has got Henshaw, Olding, Griffin, Macken and even Marshall to contend with it. I've always rated Payne, but I certainly don't think he's guarenteed a place with Ireland when the most of the guys above are more than capable especially Henshaw and Olding.

He's not guaranteed anything, but he's simply a classier player then any of those mentioned, at least currently. I don't think its even close.

its_phil

Podge_irl wrote: »

He's not guaranteed anything, but he's simply a classier player then any of those mentioned, at least currently. I don't think its even close.

You give a years more experience to those guys and I certainly don't think its a massive gap

dtpc191991

bilston wrote: »

Cave was excellent today and last week too actually. I suppose the thing about Cave is that he would be a safe pair of hands if he was just filling in for a game or two. Im not sure he is a long term option, but as I said earlier maybe deserves the chance alongside the first team, but then hr wasnt in the training squad in sept so is presumably a bit down the queue.

Exactly, Cave is the perfect safe option plug the gap whilst guys like Henshaw, Olding etc have a chance to have a full season of HC rugby to bed themselves in. If BOD was injured com February that is the time I would expect Henshaw to make the step up.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

its_phil wrote: »

You give a years more experience to those guys and I certainly don't think its a massive gap

they'd have to show a lot of improvement

Payne is a class act

phog

danthefan wrote: »

Haha, good one. We all believe you. Neither was this I guess.

And posts from the start of September, as I said, irrelevant. Loads has happened since then, mainly Madigan has been dropped and Jackson has performed. They'd even be irrelevant to the discussion of who should be backup 10, never mind who'd be backup 13.

Scraping the bottom of the barrel.

phog

Bridge93 wrote: »

Surely if earls is the form winger you play him on the wing. If he's in great form on the wing we shouldn't be moving him out of his best position. the team should accommodate our form players as far as I'm concerned not the other way round. Build a team around players in positions they are performing.
Also I believe this 13 question is a short term discussion. Surely when he qualifies Jared Payne is nailed on for the 13 shirt? Think it's next year he qualifies.

I'd go along with that in one sense but in another Earls at 13 with AN Other on the wing might be a better combo than AN Other at 13 and Earls on the wing.

Tox56

Podge_irl wrote: »

He's not guaranteed anything, but he's simply a classier player then any of those mentioned, at least currently. I don't think its even close.

Yeah the likes of Macken and Henshaw are good athletes but they have to improve their games significantly to become an option at international level, although they do have a lot of time to do so. Olding is an interesting one, oozes class and I'd love to see him at 13, hasn't played there enough (at all?) yet so he definitely isn't in the picture right now. He's the one I have the most faith in though

shuffol

Cave's work for Ulsters try yesterday was superb, the way he arced his run infield to tie up two defenders and allow Trimble to go outside him was class. I dont think Earls is capable of that type of play unfortunately. If BOD is injured it would be Cave at 13 with Earls and Bowe on the wings for me.

its_phil

Tox56 wrote: »

Yeah the likes of Macken and Henshaw are good athletes but they have to improve their games significantly to become an option at international level, although they do have a lot of time to do so. Olding is an interesting one, oozes class and I'd love to see him at 13, hasn't played there enough (at all?) yet so he definitely isn't in the picture right now. He's the one I have the most faith in though

That's pretty unfair on Henshaw to put him in the 'athlete' category. He's got a very good eye for the gap and getting his hands free in the tackle for the offload (although Connacht players are rubbish for providing support). His passing needs work.

I'd put a small wager on him playing 13 or being 23 against Samoa.

I should have put Cave in that category above too.

awec

phog wrote: »

I'd go along with that in one sense but in another Earls at 13 with AN Other on the wing might be a better combo than AN Other at 13 and Earls on the wing.

I don't think it would be, I think Earls is a very average centre and to play him there when he has been performing well in a position he's brilliant at would be completely nuts in my opinion. I think he's a bit too one dimensional at centre, head down and blinkers on too much.

The notion of him being the backup centre needs to be dropped. It is one thing for him to cover there at the end of a game if we are absolutely forced to do it - but I really cannot warm to the idea of him starting in the centre in any game for Ireland.

Earls and Bowe on the wing, BOD / Marshall or Cave / Marshall for me.

Tox56

its_phil wrote: »

That's pretty unfair on Henshaw to put him in the 'athlete' category. He's got a very good eye for the gap and getting his hands free in the tackle for the offload (although Connacht players are rubbish for providing support). His passing needs work.

I'd put a small wager on him playing 13 or being 23 against Samoa.

I should have put Cave in that category above too.

I'm sure Henshaw has other strings to his bow but at this level we're talking about players like Payne who just have that ability to create something out of nothing. Although Henshaw clearly knows how to spot a gap I would have that down as an expected minimum for an international outside centre, and he does need to work on his overall creativity. When I said athlete I meant someone who sees a gap and runs into it (something Henshaw excels at because, as I said, he's a great athlete), as opposed to a player like Conrad Smith who creates the space for teammates to exploit

D Cave for example is more of a Smith type of player, but he can't learn the size and speed Henshaw possesses, whereas Henshaw can learn to be more creative.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

I wouldn't be terribly upset to see Earls at 13 next to Marshall at 12. But Darcy/Earls just isn't a runner