Farming and the Veganism: Where love and hate collide.

gozunda · 23-11-2020 12:13pm #1

Just a heads up on stuff going on with some recent change in the v&v forums charter that has given posters there carte blanche to openly claim / infer that all animal farming is cruel and smear all animal based farming in doing so

On a separate issue (which was raised but which was ignored)- where such 'animal cruelty' is illegal in this country - it would seem this is also being used to deliberate tarnish the reputations of all animal farming.

According to the new charter this type ofv language now appears to a protected position. With the the same few posters repeatedly using it to troll the forum and attack other posters

A number of posters have tried to raise concerns on the use of this and similar phrases but have been ignored and or recieved infractions for doing so.

There are two threads in help desk atm on these issues - one has been closed.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058134585/1/#post115387079

Edit: Just to clarify my comment here is not about any one poster or a general discussion of any specific forum.

It specifically about whats happening in relation to recent v&v charter changes and the use of offensive type language. The issue is currently under discussion in the Help Desk forum.

Panch18 · 23-11-2020 12:24pm

gozunda wrote: »

Just a heads up on stuff going on with some recent change in the v&v forums charter that has given posters there carte blanche to openly claim / infer that all animal farming is cruel and smear all animal based farming in doing so

On a separate issue (which was raised but which was ignored)- where such 'animal cruelty' is illegal in this country - it would seem this is also being used to deliberate tarnish the reputations of all animal farming.

According to the new charter this issues now appears to a protected position. With the the same few posters repeatedly using it to troll the forum and attack other posters

A number of posters have tried to raise concerns on the use of this and similar phrases but have been ignored and or recieved infractions for doing so. There are two threads in help desk atm on these issues - one has been closed.

The reply from the v&v forum moderator would appear to be trying to deny there is any problem and deliberately mixing up the two issues outlined above. This is clearly not the case.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058134585/1/#post115387079

Banned Gozunda - not just infracted!!!

I think this needs a thread of its own - its absolutely unbelievable that whats allowed over there

roosterman71 · 23-11-2020 12:25pm

And as night follows day, another downside to the auld Veganism

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/vegans-at-higher-risk-of-bone-fractures-oxford-study/

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The world is plenty big enough for all to eat what they want. There's an abundance of food. Balanced diet = healthy diet. It really is simple

NcdJd · 23-11-2020 12:30pm

gozunda wrote: »

Just a heads up on stuff going on with some recent change in the v&v forums charter that has given posters there carte blanche to openly claim / infer that all animal farming is cruel and smear all animal based farming in doing so

On a separate issue (which was raised but which was ignored)- where such 'animal cruelty' is illegal in this country - it would seem this is also being used to deliberate tarnish the reputations of all animal farming.

According to the new charter this issues now appears to a protected position. With the the same few posters repeatedly using it to troll the forum and attack other posters

A number of posters have tried to raise concerns on the use of this and similar phrases but have been ignored and or recieved infractions for doing so. There are two threads in help desk atm on these issues - one has been closed.

The reply from the v&v forum moderator would appear to be trying to deny there is any problem and deliberately mixing up the two issues outlined above. This is clearly not the case.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058134585/1/#post115387079

Mod snip One poster threw up a video comparing meat processing plants to what occurred to the Jews in Nazi occupied Poland and then moans when posters take issue with that comparison. As far as I'm concerned there are a group of posters in there that want to make V&V their own personal echo chamber where they can spout misinformation and not have anyone challenge this misinformation.

Mod snip;This is not the place for discussion of moderation on another forum.

gozunda · 23-11-2020 12:57pm

NcdJd wrote: »

I seen that yesterday when you got a week ban by Faith. One poster threw up a video comparing meat processing plants to what occurred to the Jews in Nazi occupied Poland and then moans when posters take issue with that comparison. As far as I'm concerned there are a group of posters in there that want to make V&V their own personal echo chamber where they can spout misinformation and not have anyone challenge this misinformation.

At the moment certain posters I feel are just testing the waters with the new mod to see how far they will get and of course then when challenged just whinge that the place is being overrun by evil farmers.

Disgraceful you were banned, basically shutting down discussion.

Not the only poster btw. Panch and other posters were also banned / warned for calling out and highlighting the continued abuse being allowed by a small number of posters there.

To date farmers / farming have been openly accused of engaging in "murder" "torture" and "imprisonment". All animal Farming has equated with animal cruelty. In addition parelles have been made with farming and the holocaust and slavery.

The only apparent infractions of posters doing so has been some of these references were deleted following the comments being reported. In most cases there have been no infractions for these comments.

NcdJd · 23-11-2020 1:16pm

gozunda wrote: »

Not the only poster btw. Panch and other posters were also banned / warned for calling out and highlighting the continued abuse being allowed by a small number of posters there.

To date farmers / farming have been openly accused of engaging in "murder" "torture" and "imprisonment". All animal Farming has equated with animal cruelty. In addition parelles have been made with farming and the holocaust and slavery.

The only apparent infractions of posters doing so has been some of these references were deleted following the comments being reported. In most cases there have been no infractions for these comments.

I'm reading now some of what Panch and yourself are posting in the help desk thread you posted earlier. That paragraph that was sneaked into the charter is outrageous.

_Brian · 23-11-2020 1:27pm

Extremist vegans like these are essentially facists.
They want to force everyone into their path, to believe what they believe eat what they eat. Anyone not aligning with them is the enemy and abused and often threatened, reputations tarnished with lies and false “evidence”.

Much of I think is being stoked up in the background by big business interests intent on getting more and more people onto their products.

NcdJd · 23-11-2020 1:39pm

_Brian wrote: »

Extremist vegans like these are essentially facists.
They want to force everyone into their path, to believe what they believe eat what they eat. Anyone not aligning with them is the enemy and abused and often threatened, reputations tarnished with lies and false “evidence”.

Much of I think is being stoked up in the background by big business interests intent on getting more and more people onto their products.

Could not have put it better myself Brian. Hit the nail on the head for me and this type of stuff should not be given a platform on boards.ie.

Edit: I've offered my feedback in the helpdesk thread, I'm not sure if it will be posted but this is what I said:

Faith wrote: »

The charter was amended as a result of user feedback and a detailed discussion between posters, forum mods, CMods and Admins. Nothing inexplicable about it.

That was done some weeks back, when did the inclusion of the cruelty paragraph come into place ? Panch said two days ago... you were quick off the mark to ban Gozunda for having a discussion using this cruelty charter..

Boards have just given a platform for a couple of posters with extremist views to post whatever they like and no one who is offended or tries to correct misinformation can reply as they will be banned from the forum.

Well done Boards.

_Brian · 23-11-2020 1:58pm

NcdJd wrote: »

Could not have put it better myself Brian. Hit the nail on the head for me and this type of stuff should not be given a platform on boards.ie.

One wonders how come they are allowed prophet their lies against farming on boards. If I came on and started slagging off a business and spouting lies it wouldn’t be long before posts would be deleted for fear of liability cases against boards. V&V folk seem to have a free pass on that issue.

gozunda · 23-11-2020 2:02pm

NcdJd wrote: »

Could not have put it better myself Brian. Hit the nail on the head for me and this type of stuff should not be given a platform on boards.ie.

Edit: I've offered my feedback in the helpdesk thread, I'm not sure if it will be posted but this is what I said:

That was done some weeks back, when did the inclusion of the cruelty paragraph come into place ? Panch said two days ago... you were quick off the mark to ban Gozunda for having a discussion using this cruelty charter..

Boards have just given a platform for a couple of posters with extremist views to post whatever they like and no one who is offended or tries to correct misinformation can reply as they will be banned from the forum. Well done Boards.

The thing was I checked that the phrase was now being allowed to be used on the forum. I then used the phrase in a comment with regard to its actual meaning

Edit. Apologies for the derailing the chat thread btw. Could we maybe make this to a thread by itself.

23-11-2020 2:23pm

_Brian wrote: »

Extremist vegans like these are essentially facists.
They want to force everyone into their path, to believe what they believe eat what they eat. Anyone not aligning with them is the enemy and abused and often threatened, reputations tarnished with lies and false “evidence”.

Much of I think is being stoked up in the background by big business interests intent on getting more and more people onto their products.

I’m one of those vegans Brian and I’m not an extremist or a fascist.

I don’t want to force ANYONE on to my path.

I’d love everyone to eat the food I eat but I’ve zero problem with people eating whatever they want.

I’ve family and friends that eat meat and diary. I’ve no problem with that. I still hang around with them. Socialise. Have a few beers. We rarely, if ever, talk about veganism.

They are not my enemies.

I don’t abuse them.

I don’t threaten them.

I actually love them all very deeply.

Life is very short and I encourage people to do the things they want to do.

Eat meat. Drink milk.

Don’t eat meat. Don’t drink milk.

Live and let live.

gozunda · 23-11-2020 2:32pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’m one of those vegans Brian and I’m not an extremist or a fascist.
I don’t want to force ANYONE on to my path.
I’d love everyone to eat the food I eat but I’ve zero problem with people eating whatever they want.
I’ve family and friends that eat meat and diary. I’ve no problem with that. I still hang around with them. Socialise. Have a few beers. We rarely, if ever, talk about veganism.
They are not my enemies.
I don’t abuse them.
I don’t threaten them.
I actually love them all very deeply.
Life is very short and I encourage people to do the things they want to do.
Eat meat. Drink milk.
Don’t eat meat. Don’t drink milk.
Live and let live.

Live and let live eh - a bit of old tolerance eh?

So do you get pleasure from inferring others are murderers, rapists, torturers, engage in cruelty? etc etc

Tbh I really dont know if you're just making rubbish up or are just having a laugh. Its hard to tell at this stage tbh.

This is one of yours I believe ...

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056192788/22/#post114974882

Money money money.

That’s all the farmers care about.

Loads of examples on the farming forum.

Only recently a farmer was delighted when his young child responded to - what is a chicken ? Mooonnnneeeyyyyyy

I paraphrase the above. It’s how I remember it.

The forum itself is FULL of farmers deciding between money and putting an animal down. If there’s no profit the animal dies sooner than intended.

Anytime I read through some of the threads it’s clear what farmers want. More money. To say they care more about animals than money isn’t evidenced from anything I’ve read....

....

_Brian · 23-11-2020 2:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I’m one of those vegans Brian and I’m not an extremist or a fascist.

I don’t want to force ANYONE on to my path.

I’d love everyone to eat the food I eat but I’ve zero problem with people eating whatever they want.

I’ve family and friends that eat meat and diary. I’ve no problem with that. I still hang around with them. Socialise. Have a few beers. We rarely, if ever, talk about veganism.

They are not my enemies.

I don’t abuse them.

I don’t threaten them.

I actually love them all very deeply.

Life is very short and I encourage people to do the things they want to do.

Eat meat. Drink milk.

Don’t eat meat. Don’t drink milk.

Live and let live.

Do you call out the bad behaviour of fellow vegans who are on the extremist paths of abusing others for their choices, the ones who want to force everyone to be vegan.

23-11-2020 2:55pm

_Brian wrote: »

Do you call out the bad behaviour of fellow vegans who are on the extremist paths of abusing others for their choices, the ones who want to force everyone to be vegan.

I don’t know any.

straight · 23-11-2020 2:58pm

gozunda wrote: »

Live and let live eh - a bit of old tolerance eh?

So do you get pleasure from inferring others are murderers, rapists, torturers? etc etc

Tbh I really dont know if you're just making rubbish up or are just having a laugh. Its hard to tell at this stage tbh.

This is one of yours I believe ...

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056192788/22/#post114974882

Just read that post by klopparama. Wouldn't be reading anymore of that sh1t. Good policy is not to engage with head cases online. Person is obviously full of hate.

_Brian · 23-11-2020 3:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don’t know any.

Right.

Sooo you haven’t seen posters call farmers murderers and animal abusers. Calling for an end to animal farming ??
You haven’t seen posters refer to AI as rape of cows ??

Lady Haywire · 23-11-2020 4:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I’m one of those vegans Brian and I’m not an extremist or a fascist.

I don’t want to force ANYONE on to my path.

I’d love everyone to eat the food I eat but I’ve zero problem with people eating whatever they want.

Life is very short and I encourage people to do the things they want to do.

Eat meat. Drink milk.

Don’t eat meat. Don’t drink milk.

Live and let live.

Has the leopard changed his spots?

Deleted User wrote: »

You don’t care for an animal by imprisoning it, torturing and slaughtering it because that’s what you are doing if it’s your job or if you’re paying someone to do it, for example, buying meat, milk, cheese etc.

Deleted User wrote: »

I think torture is the perfect word to describe the period of time from birth to slaughter.

Lady Haywire wrote: »

In the past you have called farmers welfare scroungers, a bunch of f**king babies & f**king losers. I don't think posts like that are tolerated pretty much anywhere.

Forgive me if I take your post with a hefty dose of skepticism. I only include my post with yours as your originals were deleted by the mod.

White Clover · 23-11-2020 4:10pm

Mod Snip

The new charter basically gives extremist vegans a platform on a public forum to denigrate animal farming and post false and misleading articles, all in the name of "understanding" veganism.
When challenged, infractions and bans are handed out to one side only.
Snip again..... We can't leave that WC, but be under no illusions you're in F&F now. We'll take care of our own. Thanks . GC

Acquiescence · 23-11-2020 4:30pm

The existence of this thread makes me about as uncomfortable as the one in the Vegan forum to be honest.

Is there anything positive to had from devolving into this tit for tat?

_Brian · 23-11-2020 4:37pm

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Has the leopard changed his spots?

Forgive me if I take your post with a hefty dose of skepticism. I only include my post with yours as your originals were deleted by the mod.

Excellantly made point LH !!

These people think they can lie and abuse peopple to force everyone onto their ideology.. If they were calling Travellers liars and murderers the would get permanent bans... But somehow its tolerated to spew that rubbish at farmers..

Panch18 · 23-11-2020 4:53pm

Acquiescence wrote: »

The existence of this thread makes me about as uncomfortable as the one in the Vegan forum to be honest.

Is there anything positive to had from devolving into this tit for tat?

There's not

But there is a very dangerous precedent being set here.

Are you happy to be called an animal rapist?
Are you happy to be called a murderer?
Are you happy for the world to be told that all your produce is cruelly produced?

Are you happy that you don't have the right to defend yourself against those acquisations? Because that's whats happening - on this very public forum

The thing is it's easy say that oh its only a few vegans, who cares etc. But trust me when i say that the level of fascism that is being used around this is unbelievable. You will not object to what is being said - if you do we will delete your posts and ban you - instantly.

So you say - ahh its just boards, who cares. Then it creeps into the mainstream media little by little.

Where does it stop??

endainoz · 23-11-2020 6:17pm

Great points being brought up folks, great work by gozunda and panch in particular. I had it out on boards with a vegan before who was woefully ignorant in their views and would not change for anybody.

I just ended up ignoring them, it can be so draining trying to argue a point with someone that has no time for you to listen to them.

Further engagement of course is needed between the two sides but I fear we're much too far past that. Was there ever an AMA for a farmer in the vegan forum and vica versa?

_Brian · 23-11-2020 6:27pm

I got a warning and posts deleted for “generalising”

Yet when I asked the mod about the practice of allowing vegans generalise about farmers being murderers and animal abusers the moderator stopped responding to my messages.

I suggested they add a paragraph to their charter specifically banning the abusive language like this about farmers, but no response.

auspicious · 23-11-2020 6:27pm

_Brian wrote: »

Extremist vegans like these are essentially facists.
They want to force everyone into their path, to believe what they believe eat what they eat. Anyone not aligning with them is the enemy and abused and often threatened, reputations tarnished with lies and false “evidence”.

Much of I think is being stoked up in the background by big business interests intent on getting more and more people onto their products.

That's a broad brushstroke your using there. Much like some farmers accuse vegan of tarnishing them with the same brush in certain discussions.
I've never threatened or abused a farmer.
Some fascists used gas chambers to kill their victims.

Panch18 · 23-11-2020 6:33pm

auspicious wrote: »

That's a broad brushstroke your using there. Much like some farmers accuse vegan of tarnishing them with the same brush in certain discussions.
I've never threatened or abused a farmer.
Some fascists used gas chambers to kill their victims.

Wasn't it only last week that yourself started a thread on After Hours calling farmers robbers and thiefs for milking cows??

And that thread got short shrift from the general public - much to your surprise i would imagine

gozunda · 23-11-2020 6:37pm

endainoz wrote: »

Great points being brought up folks, great work by gozunda and panch in particular. I had it out on boards with a vegan before who was woefully ignorant in their views and would not change for anybody.

I just ended up ignoring them, it can be so draining trying to argue a point with someone that has no time for you to listen to them.

Further engagement of course is needed between the two sides but I fear we're much too far past that. Was there ever an AMA for a farmer in the vegan forum and vica versa?

Hey thanks to the mod for the new thread But no not much doing in between that and getting a load of hay moved and laying a new floor in a shed today.

Tbh I couldn't simply let go unremarked the type of hate speech that has been unsanctioned recently. And which bizarrely is now being mollycoddled as a protective 'belief'. Oh yeah and apparently its other people who are the ones attacking vegans.

When I saw the title of the thread - I wasn't sure but thinking about it kinda makes sense
Might not be a bad idea to post up the absolute hate been pushed by some on boards about farming and others.

gozunda · 23-11-2020 6:45pm

auspicious wrote: »

That's a broad brushstroke your using there. Much like some farmers accuse vegan of tarnishing them with the same brush in certain discussions.
I've never threatened or abused a farmer.
Some fascists used gas chambers to kill their victims.

Abuse is it?

Yeah it was your recent hate speech about the parallels between farming and the nazi holocaust. And you were called out on it

or have you already conveniently forgotten all that?

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057984962/4/#post115363678

endainoz · 23-11-2020 6:47pm

gozunda wrote: »

Hey thanks to the mod for the new thread But no not much doing in between that and getting a load of hay moved and laying a new floor in a shed today.

Tbh I couldn't simply let go unremarked the type of hate speech that has been unsanctioned recently. And which bizarrely is now being mollycoddled as a protective 'belief'. Oh yeah and apparently its other people who are the ones attacking vegans.

When I saw the title of the thread - I wasn't sure but thinking about it kinda makes sense
Might not be a bad idea to post up the absolute hate been pushed by some on boards about farming and others.

I just wouldn't have the energy to go arguing with a person who's mind is made up.

They should all take the time to watch Charles Dowding's Ted Talk, or even Kiss the ground on Netflix. Diversity is the key, mixed farming is the key.

It's funny I never heard a vegan speak about regen farming, or crop diversity, or carbon sequestering on soil. If a person has a genuine disdain for meat farming that's fine, it's all well and good saying no more animals but it's the next step they have the problem with.

Panch18 · 23-11-2020 6:48pm

endainoz wrote: »

Great points being brought up folks, great work by gozunda and panch in particular. I had it out on boards with a vegan before who was woefully ignorant in their views and would not change for anybody.

I just ended up ignoring them, it can be so draining trying to argue a point with someone that has no time for you to listen to them.

Further engagement of course is needed between the two sides but I fear we're much too far past that. Was there ever an AMA for a farmer in the vegan forum and vica versa?

The most worrying point Endainoz is the treatment by the mods by inserting that obvious inflammatory statement in the charter and given the vegans a free for all to use it carte blanche

And we all know what that crowd are like - give them an inch and ...

What has really amazed me is that not only was it tolerated by the mods - but it was actually put into the charter - on a public forum. Next thing you will see it start to creep into mainstream media and from there it will lead to a common public belief regarding animal welfare, cruelty etc etc and then we are really on the back foot.

I don't really have a problem with the vegans trying to use those phrases - they are idiots and we all know they are idiots - the problem is that when you try to defend yourself, highlight the absolute rubbish they are spouting or point out the blatant lies they are peddling then its and automatic ban and your posts deleted.

So on there - the vegan word is gospel and unquestionable - and resistance will not be tolerated under any circumstances.

And the mods on there aren't even vegans - so they have obviously been wangled in to allow it - where does it stop.

23-11-2020 6:49pm

Hey all

You'll not often find me on the side of farmer interests (pampered civil servant whose bus is too often delayed by the protests :-) and from fisherman stock to boot) but that change in the charter is a shocker tbh

It's as much a "no farming view welcome" which will very soon become "no alternative view welcome" which will very soon just be a forum from which extreme opinions will be launched across the wider boards, imo

Panch18 · 23-11-2020 6:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Hey all

You'll not often find me on the side of farmer interests (pampered civil servant whose bus is too often delayed by there protests :-) and from fisherman stick to boot) but that change in the charter is a shocker tbh

It's as much a "no farming view welcome" which will very soon become "no alternative view welcome" which will very soon just be a forum from which extreme opinions will be launched across the wider boards, imo

I thought your post on the help forum was excellent - thanks for the contribution.

you've hit the nail on the head there - its no alternative views welcome - where does it end

Farming and the Veganism: Where love and hate collide.

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