Farming and the Veganism: Where love and hate collide.

Lady Haywire

auspicious wrote: »

I wouldn't of had incentive to change the post.
As I said some terms are a way to describe practices so as to be seen in a different light, to get passed what is known as cognitive dissonance. Also to be seen from the animals' perspective.
Those sheep I mentioned in vid., they weren't whooping with delight.

So no, you wouldn't have changed the false info. That's grand. All I needed to know.

gozunda

auspicious wrote: »

I wouldn't of mentioned it only Gozunda brought it into the discussion.

Really? my standalone comment was simply a reply to ncjd post on that topic

You had your own discussion separately on that subject with Brian

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115394497&postcount=24

And yes by mistake I relied to that.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115395989&postcount=64

emaherx

auspicious wrote: »

It's hard to remove insects and such out of the way of harvesting.
Meat is not essential to thrive. There are 6ft6in vegan from birth people out the with healthy bmi.

None of that has any connection to what I said, for a start I never mentioned harvest and it seems you intentionally avoid the fact that the insects are killed with insecticide for the purpose of eradicating them not some accidental harvest related injury.

As for 6ft6in vegans I've no idea why that is relevant.

greysides

gozunda, auspicious. Enough, thanks. Let's move on.

auspicious

emaherx wrote: »

None of that has any connection to what I said, for a start I never mentioned harvest and it seems you intentionally avoid the fact that the insects are killed with insecticide for the purpose of eradicating them not some accidental harvest related injury.

As for 6ft6in vegans I've no idea why that is relevant.

Becaaaause we need vegetables and such but not meat to thrive.
Meat isn't essential and that is typified by giant healthy vegans walking around.

emaherx

auspicious wrote: »

Becaaaause we need vegetables and such but not meat to thrive.
Meat isn't essential and that is typified by giant healthy vegans walking around.

But what's the difference if we kill sentient creatures for food or just to produce food? A lot more creatures die to produce a cabbage than a steak but there is more food in a cow than a cabbage.

auspicious

Lady Haywire wrote: »

So no, you wouldn't have changed the false info. That's grand. All I needed to know.

What's important is I did retract it after considering your refutation.

White Clover

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I know of 5 different breeders,that do,id be good mates with em,they know my views/feelings on not buying ET lambs

I went to blessington premier sales a few years ago and roughly 1 in 8 was an ET lamb (i try to always buy a twin/triplet,so it shows where i check on cathaloge)

Its wrong on animals involved,what they are doing.....its easy to se why,with money tied up etc,just personally,i couldnt and wont support it



Edit: even feel AI in sheep,is excessively invasive on em tbh

Ai in pedigree sheep is not a common practice. Not even 0.1% of pefigree sheep would be AI'd. No commercial sheep are AI'd.

Just because they were ET lambs doesn't mean the hoggets were subject to the treatment you were inferring in your earlier post.

auspicious

emaherx wrote: »

But what's the difference if we kill sentient creatures for food or just to produce food? A lot more creatures die to produce a cabbage than a steak but there is more food in a cow than a cabbage.

We can minimise sentient deaths as best as is practically possible but a plant only diet is healthier than a meat only diet. I care less about stepping on an ant than stunning and killing a lamb. I still care though.
That said .... Snip.... Less of the emotive and provocative language please and thanks. GC.

richie123

auspicious wrote: »

Becaaaause we need vegetables and such but not meat to thrive.
Meat isn't essential and that is typified by giant healthy vegans walking around.

This is just pure hypocrisy.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wait until,you hear what happens with pedigree texels and embryo transfer into hoggets

Resulting in,c-sections and a significant portion of these hoggets,going straight up the ramp and away to factory as soon as lambs reared


I have personally stopped buying ET rams,purely on point of principal

I don’t understand most of your jargon in this post.

Would you explain ?

emaherx

auspicious wrote: »

We can minimise sentient deaths as best as is practically possible but a plant only diet is healthier than a meat only diet. I care less about stepping on an ant than stunning and killing a lamb.
That said ... Snip

But a mixed balanced diet is healthier than either, I've no intention of eating only meat or only veg. It's strange that you care less about killing an ant compared to killing a lamb but come here and compare meat industry to murder. So if it comes down to size of the creature at what size does it become cruel and immoral?

I minimise sentient death by having a mixed diet, more creatures would die producing the food that it would take to replace the meat portion of my diet, but oddly because they are small they don't matter.

keepalive213

auspicious wrote: »

We can minimise sentient deaths as best as is practically possible but a plant only diet is healthier than a meat only diet. I care less about stepping on an ant than stunning and killing a lamb. I still care though.
Snip

You are being deliberately provocative and trying to get people to react.
Is this supposed to further your cause?
Are the words and extreme examples you choose intended to help others to see the error of their ways?
Or maybe you just enjoy arguing with random strangers on the Internet because thats all that you seem to be achieving.

endainoz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don’t understand most of your jargon in this post.

Would you explain ?

It's entirely up to yourself to learn about a subject and make an educated point about it.

auspicious

emaherx wrote: »

But a mixed balanced diet is healthier than either, I've no intention of eating only meat or only veg. It's strange that you care less about killing an ant compared to killing a lamb but come here and compare meat industry to murder. So if it comes down to size of the creature at what size does it become cruel and immoral?

I minimise sentient death by having a mixed diet, more creatures would die producing the food that it would take to replace the meat portion of my diet, but oddly because they are small they don't matter.

I care less doesn't mean I don't care at all. I can relate to a lamb easier than an ant as I can clearly see its sentience. I'm not sure how sentient an ant is but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Though some insects will continue to eat and try to go about their business even while another preys on its body.
It becomes cruel and immoral with it becomes unnecessary.

_Brian

auspicious wrote: »

We can minimise sentient deaths as best as is practically possible but a plant only diet is healthier than a meat only diet. I care less about stepping on an ant than stunning and killing a lamb. I still care though.
That said .... Snip.... Less of the emotive and provocative language please and thanks. GC.

I haven’t seen literally ANYONE recommending a meat only diet, that’s just bizarre. People are promoting a balanced diet including meat and dairy which still stands as the most complete diet for humans and is the style of farming that can be best for the planet.

So this argument isn’t between meat free or meat only. This argument is between restricting an important portion of human diet against a balanced diet including quality foods from as many different sources as is possible.

auspicious

keepalive213 wrote: »

You are being deliberately provocative and trying to get people to react.
Is this supposed to further your cause?
Are the words and extreme examples you choose intended to help others to see the error of their ways?
.

It's not provocative. It's reality. The majority don't subscribe to the stunning. I don't want people to react to me, but just to think to themselves, " That's a bit rough what happens.". It's pertinent to omnivore soceity's use of sentient life. They don't have to eat meat but they do because they like the taste more than the right to life and fair treatment.

Goodnight.

gozunda

emaherx wrote: »

None of that has any connection to what I said, for a start I never mentioned harvest and it seems you intentionally avoid the fact that the insects are killed with insecticide for the purpose of eradicating them not some accidental harvest related injury.

As for 6ft6in vegans I've no idea why that is relevant.

Thats the thing. In cultivation and harvesting its not just 'insects'. I believe the current estimate is 7 billion animals and other organisms killed during cultivation and harvesting every year. I'll see if I can find the reference.

Btw I've never met a 6 foot 6 baby either :pac:

keepalive213

auspicious wrote: »

It's provocative. I want people to react to me, That's what happens."

Goodnight.

We can all edit posts, why would you even bother.
You've taken up 10 minutes of my valuable time already and thats plenty. Best of luck, I think you will need it.

auspicious

keepalive213 wrote: »

We can all edit posts, why would you even bother.
You've taken up 10 minutes of my valuable time already and thats plenty. Best of luck, I think you will need it.

I just edited it to say goodnight. And Im glad your time is valuable.

emaherx

auspicious wrote: »

I care less doesn't mean I don't care at all. I can relate to a lamb easier than an ant as I can clearly see its sentience. I'm not sure how sentient an ant is but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Though some insects will continue to eat and try to go about their business even while another preys on its body.
It becomes cruel and immoral with it becomes unnecessary.

You can relate to a lamb easier? I'm honestly baffled that that's what it comes down to.

collins english dictionary: wrote:

"A sentient being is capable of experiencing things through its senses"

How is a lamb more sentient? Has it more senses than an ant? Some kind of lamb ESP?

Food is nessacery and death in it's production is also nessacery, I don't draw any distinction between killing one type of creature for food and another type in the process of producing food.

How many tiny lives are killed spraying a 1 acre crop? Not to mention all of the other incidental deaths.


No matter how much you like or dislike it humans will forever need to kill animals for our survival and theirs. If hypothetically we stopped eating them there is no way they could be left to breed uncontrollably and regular culling would be nessacery just like Phoenix park deer.

richie123

emaherx wrote: »

You can relate to a lamb easier? I'm honestly baffled that that's what it comes down to.



How is a lamb more sentient? Has it more senses than an ant? Some kind of lamb ESP?

Food is nessacery and death in it's production is also nessacery, I don't draw any distinction between killing one type of creature for food and another type in the process of producing food.

How many tiny lives are killed spraying a 1 acre crop? Not to mention all of the other incidental deaths.


No matter how much you like or dislike it humans will forever need to kill animals for our survival and theirs. If hypothetically we stopped eating them there is no way they could be left to breed uncontrollably and regular culling would be nessacery just like Phoenix park deer.

These last few posts just prove the hypocrisy of the whole vegan argument...no matter what food system people rely on sentient life will die vegan or otherwise.

emaherx

richie123 wrote: »

These last few posts just prove the hypocrisy of the whole vegan argument...no matter what food system people rely on sentient life will die vegan or otherwise.

Ah, but lambs are more relatable

richie123

emaherx wrote: »

Ah, but lambs are more relatable

**** the bees and ants and moles worms and everything else that lives in the ground and plants.
spray it all with pesticides and fertilizers.
Now they'll come out and say veg can be grown on a large scale without pesticides and ferts.

Absolute hypocrisy.

White Clover

White Clover wrote: »

Ai in sheep is not a common practice. Not even 0.1% of sheep would be AI'd.

Just because they were ET lambs doesn't mean the hoggets were subject to the treatment you were inferring in your earlier post.

In pedigree breeding its running at a much higher percentage


Most of These hoggots are physically not capable of having these ET lambs,they are being opened up to take lambs out of them,and off to factory when lambs reared,

I know this,because i know people that do it with their pedigree sheep....its foolish and ultimately undermines any animal welfare debates,when people bury their head in sand and try pretend its not going on

NcdJd

Small mammals such as mice and amphibians such as frogs also get caught under plough and rotovator in my case. I do see them scarpering from the fronts wheels of the tractor.

There are only really small farms in Ireland and small fields. This all helps along with our extensive network of hedgerows.

Biodiversity loss is caused by human activity in my mind not just agriculture - housing, roads, introductions of invasive species, throwaway culture, perfect lawns and gardens etc

Everyone needs to do their bit in a practical way, if they can to help Biodiversity if they can, not just spend the day talking about it on social media.

Plenty of talk i hear, little action apart from a few,and what I can see mostly farmers are the ones doing improvement projects while everyone else sits on their fat arses being outraged or whinging about it on twitter.

The new AIB green washing ad is a case in point. Some Irish Greta wannabee talking ****e.

NcdJd

Plenty of threads on here, nature on your farm, the do you feed your cows treats etc to see that farmers are not some evil grouping that need to be admonished from the land to save biodiversity.

Saying I choose a certain lifestyle and doing **** all else doesn't cut it in my view. Look after your own back yard's biodiversity instead of whinging at farmers and country people.

NcdJd

Apologies another example i keep harking back to, the rewilding Ireland twitter account asking people to say the trees down in wicklow some months ago. He or she didn't even know the season to plant barefoot trees !!! And that person wants to rewind the country. May he or she could rewild their own garden and learn a few things first.

_Brian

NcdJd wrote: »

Plenty of threads on here, nature on your farm, the do you feed your cows treats etc to see that farmers are not some evil grouping that need to be admonished from the land to save biodiversity.

Saying I choose a certain lifestyle and doing **** all else doesn't cut it in my view. Look after your own back yard's biodiversity instead of whinging at farmers and country people.

Veganism is essentially a sort of mass hysteria where a group of people have been conditioned into thinking they know more about animal welfare than farmers and other animal keepers. There is zero evidence that the whole planet could be vegan and in fact the regenerative movement and people like Gabe Brown have proven that only a holistic farming system including farmed animals is the future for saving the soils of the planet.
If we moved to the monoculture farming required to feed 8bln vegans the soils of the planet would be spun out in a few decades, it’s an unsustainable idea.

Much of what they point out is indeed a problem with modern agriculture, grinding of chicks is wrong, really high density farms make me uneasy and when you see the state of chickens coming out of intensive systems it’s a real red flag, we can do better.

gozunda

I thinks its often endless and deliberate proselytising and misinformation which are the most noticeable tbh.

The hate being pushed against non believers is visceral

There's even websites advocating that believers go out and convert others. And some wonder why others comment on this stuff?