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Farming and the Veganism: Where love and hate collide.

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    #62
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    endainoz wrote: »
    It's funny that most of those issues can be solved with the integration of animals on to pastures to help with soil and bio diversity.

    The animal ethics issue is merely an opinion, you won't find anybody on this thread who condones industrial farming, be it animal or vegetable farming. Intense veg production is just as, if not more damaging to the soil as intensive animal farming.

    The world's top soil is due to run out in less than 60 years. Regenerating this can not be done without animal integration, this is an undisputable fact. You won't be able to do it without them.

    So we would say leave them to peaceful full life on it and don't kill them. Let subsidies keep their 'upkeep '.


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    #63
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭emaherx


    auspicious wrote: »
    So we would say leave them to peaceful full life on it and don't kill them. Let subsidies keep their 'upkeep '.

    Where they breed out of control without any natural predators. Then we can start a program of culling? What should we do with the culled animals? If only there was a convenient use for their dead bodies :D


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    #64
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    gozunda wrote: »
    Really? You have the neck to turn up and pretend you haven't regularly inferred that farmers are rapists and torturers?

    And by the way to you mean this Dr. Hershaft?

    https://nonprofitchronicles.com/2018/02/16/alex-hershaft-an-animal-rights-pioneer-with-a-metoo-problem/

    Looks like he's not big into women's rights.

    Also using the nazi holocaust parallels to push a vegan agenda has been called out as grossly offensive by various Jewish interests. With similar comparisons having been banned in Germany for making the Holocaust seem "insignificant and banal", 

    Stuart Bender (legal counsel for the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum) has requested that people "cease and desist this reprehensible misuse of Holocaust materials" to promote such agendas and called Holocaust imagery by animal rights activists a deeply "disturbing development.

    Maybe think for a change before posting such ****e

    Again it was the act I was getting at and viewing it from the perspective of the animal. And yes the stuff that pigs in factory farms are subjected to is torturous. I don't know how people can support places like that by buying the ham/ pork. You wouldn't knowingly buy a pup from a puppy farm but ham from a factory farm is okay.


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    #65
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    auspicious wrote: »
    Again it was the act I was getting at and viewing it from the perspective of the animal. And yes the stuff that pigs in factory farms are subjected to is torturous. I don't know how people can support places like that by buying the ham/ pork. You wouldn't knowingly buy a pup from a puppy farm but ham from a factory farm is okay.

    You're now bringing pork into a previous discussion about the Jewish Holocaust????

    Seriously could you have an ounce of respect please.

    And if you've read anything I've posted previously - no I don’t support 'factory' farming


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    #66
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,538 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    auspicious wrote: »
    Well the forum was a bit wild west for a while.
    The word murder and slaughter are separated by dictionary definitions. The outcome of each act is the same. The taking of life.


    The big difference of course is one feeds the majority of the real world and the other is an illegal henous act that can only be perpertrated on a human.


    Murder is the illegal killing of a human, no mention of any other species in there..
    https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/american_english/murderer


    But, rape and murder are emotive terms and so are being hyjacked by ignorant people online to put weight behind their shallow arguments..


    People are murdered, animals are slaughtered.


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    #67
    einn32
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭einn32


    What's a factory farm?


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    #68
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    Lady Haywire wrote: »
    You only retracted it after proven wrong, so yes, that is targeting farming practice. If I hadn't replied to that, would you have changed your post?

    Still waiting an answer auspicious?


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    #69
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    Lady Haywire wrote: »
    PETA also considered the shearing of sheep to be cruel, d'ya remember that ad? The one with the bloody sheep 'after shearing'
    False information isn't good for any party, vegan or farmer. If I see such info being portrayed as 'fact' of course I'm going to dispute it, as are many others.
    Many people who don't grow up on farms or have any sort of knowledge in the sector might believe that crap. That is where I draw the line.

    No I don't remember that ad - were people on the V&V forum saying shearing sheep was cruel? Tbh, I would say that shearing their wool off is among the least of the injustices suffered by animals at the hands of farmers - I imagine the most of the posts on the V&V forum focus on these worse ones, rather than on sheep being sheared.


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    #70
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    No I don't remember that ad - were people on the V&V forum saying shearing sheep was cruel? Tbh, I would say that shearing their wool off is among the least of the injustices suffered by animals at the hands of farmers - I imagine the most of the posts on the V&V forum focus on these worse ones, rather than on sheep being sheared.


    You know what else some animal rights people / vegans think is cruel?

    Keeping pets. Yup keeping pets is cruel according to some including a whole load of vegans.

    But yeah making up a definition of what someone thinks is cruel and then calling others murderers and rapists doesn't really make for a good argument no how much lipstick is or isn't put on it ...


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    #71
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    No I don't remember that ad - were people on the V&V forum saying shearing sheep was cruel? Tbh, I would say that shearing their wool off is among the least of the injustices suffered by animals at the hands of farmers - I imagine the most of the posts on the V&V forum focus on these worse ones, rather than on sheep being sheared.

    https://miro.medium.com/max/567/1*AWhqIQuBAYAWeh-Fon5Nig.jpeg

    No, I said that PETA ascertains it's cruel. And apparently 'shearing' is like the pic I linked.


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    #72
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Lady Haywire wrote: »
    https://miro.medium.com/max/567/1*AWhqIQuBAYAWeh-Fon5Nig.jpeg

    No, I said that PETA ascertains it's cruel. And apparently 'shearing' is like the pic I linked.

    Begs the question. Did they do that to it themselves just to make a poster.


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    #73
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    gozunda wrote: »
    You're now bringing pork into a previous discussion about the Jewish Holocaust????

    Seriously could you have an ounce of respect please.

    And if you've read anything I've posted previously - no I don’t support 'factory' farming

    The country with the highest number of vegans per capita is infact Isreal. I'll let you draw conclusions as to why that is.
    It's said that if the population at the time knew of the experiences of the camp prisoners there might well have been a rise-up against the perpetrators. Himmler was very careful to keep the activities as secret as he could. It is illegal in most places to film inside factory farms.

    The you I used was the figurative you. Put 'most people' in it's stead.
    I know you've stated you don't support it.


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    #74
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    Lady Haywire wrote: »
    https://miro.medium.com/max/567/1*AWhqIQuBAYAWeh-Fon5Nig.jpeg

    No, I said that PETA ascertains it's cruel. And apparently 'shearing' is like the pic I linked.

    Ok - what's your point, caller? You're probably be better off writing to PETA and sharing your opinion with them; V&V (as indicated by the name) isn't some monolith - there are people there who ascribe to a variety of dietary practices, to varying degrees.

    You giving out the head about PETA on a forum of vegans, vegetarians, pescatarians, and people looking to maybe reduce their meat intake a little, would be like me going on F&F forum and berating Irish farmers for the container of chicks left to cannibalise one another on the tarmac at Madrid Airport.


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    #75
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,538 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Lady Haywire wrote: »
    https://miro.medium.com/max/567/1*AWhqIQuBAYAWeh-Fon5Nig.jpeg

    No, I said that PETA ascertains it's cruel. And apparently 'shearing' is like the pic I linked.




    Gosh thats amongst the most bizzare piece of propaganda ive ever seen..


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    #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    Well it's question of what someone considers "cruel", isn't it?

    Absolutely

    Decidedly not the kind of thing to bake into decision making apparatus of a forum, in other words

    NB most of the vegans/vegetarians I know are lovely ppl, nothing against em


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    #77
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    Ok - what's your point, caller? You're probably be better off writing to PETA and sharing your opinion with them; V&V (as indicated by the name) isn't some monolith - there are people there who ascribe to a variety of dietary practices, to varying degrees.

    You giving out the head about PETA on a forum of vegans, vegetarians, pescatarians, and people looking to maybe reduce their meat intake a little, would be like me going on F&F forum and berating Irish farmers for the container of chicks left to cannibalise one another on the tarmac at Madrid Airport.

    Again you're bang on the money

    Or like a forum describing any animal farming as "cruel", right?


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    #78
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,538 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    like me going on F&F forum and berating Irish farmers for the container of chicks left to cannibalise one another on the tarmac at Madrid Airport.


    And yet we see lists and lists of poor farming practice from other less civilised places used to tarnish irish farmers by the V&V forum all the time, the double standard in the way "you all" want to be treated, yet keep the same process of abuse open to sling out yourselves.. its patheticly transparent really

    And please dont come on with the "i dont do that", if its done as a defence of veganism and you don't call it out as bad form then your agreeing with it, same as happens when farmers are being bullied and abused when being called murderers and rapists on the vegan forum, if you don't call that out your just implicit in the behavior


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    #79
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭emaherx


    auspicious wrote: »
    The country with the highest number of vegans per capita is infact Isreal. I'll let you draw conclusions as to why that is.
    It's said that if the population at the time knew of the experiences of the camp prisoners there might well have been a rise-up against the perpetrators. Himmler was very careful to keep the activities as secret as he could. It is illegal in most places to film inside factory farms.

    The you I used was the figurative you. Put 'most people' in it's stead.
    I know you've stated you don't support it.

    What?

    Is it illegal to film inside factory farms anywhere? Or just the way most vegan activists do it is by trespass at the very least but often also break and entering amongst other crimes including often harm to animals.

    So it's ilegal to film inside factory farms in the way it's ilegal for me to film inside your house and yet you continue to compare to nazi treatment of Jews? Very bizarre, fairly insensitive and hounstly a fairly sick perspective with a massive stretch in your comparison anyway.


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    #80
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    emaherx wrote: »
    Where they breed out of control without any natural predators. Then we can start a program of culling? What should we do with the culled animals? If only there was a convenient use for their dead bodies :D

    I'm not familiar with the whole issue atm but for practical purposes sexed-sperm could be used to ensure a greater proportion female calves birthed.


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    #81
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    auspicious wrote: »
    The country with the highest number of vegans per capita is infact Isreal. I'll let you draw conclusions as to why that is.It's said that if the population at the time knew of the experiences of the camp prisoners there might well have been a rise-up against the perpetrators. Himmler was very careful to keep the activities as secret as he could. It is illegal in most places to film inside factory farms.

    The you I used was the figurative you. Put 'most people' in it's stead.I know you've stated you don't support it.

    So why are Jewish groups telling those using such imagery / association that they are deeply offensive? And no I'm not going to draw any imaginary conclusions. I'm sure the Jewish people have their own valid reasons tbh

    You know the nazis who were big on eradicating the Jewish people through genocide - were also big animal rights fans yeah. And that Hitler didn't eat meat and regularly tried to dispersuade his fellow nazis from eating same in the final years of the Nazi Riech. I wouldn't use that to make any comparisons tbh.


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    #82
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Again you're bang on the money

    Or like a forum describing any animal farming as "cruel", right?

    No; on another thread, I described male chicks being pulped alive as "cruel" - I'll say it again.

    A post like this is normally more appropriate on the V and V forum, which is why I posted it there. As this is the type of post one can expect to find over there, I'm surprised (some) farmers allow themselves to become so upset by spending so.much time posting there.


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    #83
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    emaherx wrote: »
    Begs the question. Did they do that to it themselves just to make a poster.

    Well this is PETA. A vegan based animal rights group. In the US they have a policy of kidnapping and killing peoples pets as they believe they are better of dead than being held in 'captivity'

    Killing Animals: PETA's Open 'Secret'

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/killing-animals-petas-open-secret_b_59e78243e4b0e60c4aa36711


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    #84
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭emaherx


    auspicious wrote: »
    I'm not familiar with the whole issue atm but for practical purposes sexed-sperm could be used to ensure a greater proportion female calves birthed.

    So farm them using AI, you are the last person I'd expect to be an advocate of such things. Guess we'd have to give them contraceptives to prevent natural procreation though.


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    #85
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭emaherx


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    No; on another thread, I described male chicks being pulped alive as "cruel" - I'll say it again.

    A post like this is normally more appropriate on the V and V forum, which is why I posted it there. As this is the type of post one can expect to find over there, I'm surprised (some) farmers allow themselves to become so upset by spending so.much time posting there.

    You are suprised people post in a forum on a topic that they have an interest in? Isn't that the type of thing that brings you here now?


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    #86
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    _Brian wrote: »

    And please dont come on with the "i dont do that", if its done as a defence of veganism and you don't call it out as bad form then your agreeing with it, same as happens when farmers are being bullied and abused when being called murderers and rapists on the vegan forum, if you don't call that out your just implicit in the behavior

    With all due respect - go and whistle. I'm no more answerable for the opinions of other vegetarians than you are for the actions of other farmers.


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    #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    No; on another thread, I described male chicks being pulped alive as "cruel" - I'll say it again.

    A post like this is normally more appropriate on the V and V forum, which is why I posted it there. As this is the type of post one can expect to find over there, I'm surprised (some) farmers allow themselves to become so upset by spending so.much time posting there.

    Jumping from criticising specifics being conflated into generalities, then declining to recognize it in the exact topic being discussed, then coming back instancing a specific

    That's weaselly stuff, in no way a decent contribution to the discussion at hand tbh


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    #88
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    No; on another thread, I described male chicks being pulped alive as "cruel" - I'll say it again.

    A post like this is normally more appropriate on the V and V forum, which is why I posted it there. As this is the type of post one can expect to find over there, I'm surprised (some) farmers allow themselves to become so upset by spending so.much time posting there.

    Farmers posting in v&v? You find that surprising?

    I'd imagine its for the simple reasons that a small number of vegans spend most of their time attacking farming and talking absolute bs about farming.

    Do you really believe that others should not have the right to stand up and point out this out?

    Or does freedom of expression only work for select groups?


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    #89
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    gozunda wrote: »
    Farmers posting in v&v? You find that surprising?

    A bit, yeah. I don't see threads on the price of heifers being spammed with videos of slaughterhouses from V&V posters.
    Do you really believe that others should not have the right to stand up and point out this out?

    Or does freedom of expression only work for select groups?
    No, I just said that I found it a bit of odd fixation, that's all.


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    #90
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    With all due respect - go and whistle. I'm no more answerable for the opinions of other vegetarians than you are for the actions of other farmers.

    Mod note: We will remain civil here. The decision of whether you remain part of this conversation or not is entirely yours.

    Buford T. Justice


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    #91
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    gozunda wrote: »
    Farmers posting in v&v? You find that surprising?

    I'd imagine its for the simple reasons that a small number of vegans spend most of their time attacking farming and talking absolute bs about farming.

    Do you really believe that others should not have the right to stand up and point out this out?

    Or does freedom of expression only work for select groups?

    I find it suprising,that a thread set up to discuss another forum is allowed??



    Espially since said thread was started off back of the OP being banned from forum being discussed?


This discussion has been closed.
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