Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

thesultan · 09-11-2015 10:33AM

Saw Mahoney hobbling yesterday, looked far from right

thesultan · 09-11-2015 10:48AM

Ballygunner have a defensive strategy with good passing to set up scores

Mountainlad · 09-11-2015 08:16PM

thesultan wrote: »

Ballygunner have a defensive strategy with good passing to set up scores

And some big score takers from midfield, with talented lads inside. A very good team all round. I think if they had both Mahonys available they'd have a great chance of going all the way but unfortunately think it might be a bridge too far the next day against Classy opposition without those two stalwarts.

It's a pity because a very poor championship outside of Munster this year.

PTH2009 · 09-11-2015 08:50PM

For the 2016 nhl the key would be to stay in 1a and defend the title with honor. Kilkenny, Dublin and Galway at home, Tipperary and cork away . Dublin, Galway and cork the winnable games out of that

Can't wait for the new season

redlead · 09-11-2015 09:38PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

For the 2016 nhl the key would be to stay in 1a and defend the title with honor. Kilkenny, Dublin and Galway at home, Tipperary and cork away . Dublin, Galway and cork the winnable games out of that

Can't wait for the new season

It will be interesting to see how much McGrath tweaks the system. I don't really know what to expect really. Hopefully we can kick on anyway. I thinks it's important to make the knockout stage of the league.

thinkstoomuch1 · 09-11-2015 10:27PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

And some big score takers from midfield, with talented lads inside. A very good team all round. I think if they had both Mahonys available they'd have a great chance of going all the way but unfortunately think it might be a bridge too far the next day against Classy opposition without those two stalwarts.

It's a pity because a very poor championship outside of Munster this year.

I'd agree with parts of that but even with hogan and more so o mahony who yes is a big loss I still think na Piarsaigh or thurles probably na Piarsaigh would be too strong for Ballygunner
Ballygunner beat tallow and dominated the glen but they will face better team and I don't think they are realistic contender for the all ireland and I wouldn't agree aside from munster it's poor in the kk champions with the Ryan brothers and o shea are a serious team and two years ago when they won just come out of the intermediate grade having won before so this senior win there more better prepared and kk like any club teams in kk will be tough opponent
Congratulations on Ballygunner win as I said on cork thread if they beat the glen they I hope win munster out right and they dominated the glen yesterday but if na Piarsaigh make the final as you said yourself it's not unreasonable to say they have a huge ask although one thing that imo is worth mentioning is na Piarsaigh would be huge favourite v Ballygunner and it's something limerick team bar the under twenty one team don't do well and are favourite while waterford it's fair to say don't do expectations at any level well at times and imo there teams thrive on the under dog role so in club hurling you always have a chance and now that ballyhale are beaten more so.

Mountainlad · 09-11-2015 10:55PM

I said if they had both Mahonys available and yea I think they would beat Na Piarsaigh who were lucky against Patrickswell and narrow winners against Sixmilebridge as well but not without their two best players.

When Ballyhale turned up, they beat Clara by 8 points in the County final last year. They are the only outstanding team in the Country. Clara are a good side, no more.

The Galway county final is very poor, Cushendall no better. If the Munster winners don't win it this year I'll be very surprised.

thinkstoomuch1 · 09-11-2015 11:33PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

I said if they had both Mahonys available and yea I think they would beat Na Piarsaigh who were lucky against Patrickswell and narrow winners against Sixmilebridge as well but not without their two best players.

When Ballyhale turned up, they beat Clara by 8 points in the County final last year. They are the only outstanding team in the Country. Clara are a good side, no more.

The Galway county final is very poor, Cushendall no better. If the Munster winners don't win it this year I'll be very surprised.

I'd be surprised if the munster champions didn't win the all ireland like you but I'd be very surprised if waterford team won it as no waterford club team ever won a senior club all ireland title so better bally gunner and waterford team like de la salle came up short and yes it may not be as strong as championship this year I agree but I don't think the waterford club scene is as strong as others
Certainly it's better than cork and while physically they dominated the glen yesterday limerick who thrive on physical side of it would match Ballygunner but have better forwards and o Neill is a good coach so far doing okay
Cola I agree totally are not near ballyhale but what ballyhale done last year is irrelevant to now in would bally gunner beaten ballyhale last year most definitely not and it remains to be seen would they have stayed within eight points as you mentioned of coola
The kk champions may not be great as ballyhale but any team from kk is usually well organised with a great work rate and once they build momentum kk legacy and culture normally means kk team get better as the championship progress
Ballygunner are good to a point and credit due Walsh surprised me yesterday changing he's tactics during the game with the sending off in he never panicked and deserves credit for that but bigger tests await before imo I'd say bally gunner are capable of winning it out right. I agree with the view on the galway championship.

Brad1234 · 10-11-2015 12:17AM

I can see no reason why the gunners cant win the next day.. Albeit with the loss of Philip now is huge there is plenty of strength in depth there for Munster club Hurling conditions to fill the gap.. It will be difficult but its team work that gets your through this time of year and they seem to have that this year more so than previous.. But to dismiss them based on old mythological tradition is in some bluffers guide to hurling somewhere..

You cant really compare their Waterford champ cause they won that in 2nd gear. Still able to bring subs like Stephen Power JJ Hutchinson shows that the quality Is there..

You don't need to have a strong club scene to win it if anything you can be too battle hardened by the time it comes to a munster final or all Ireland semi..

Just cause a Waterford team hasn't won it before doesn't mean they cant win it now that is a nonsense argument.. I don't think the ballygunner lads will be thinking about it in lead up or during matches and they are a young group who are used to winning titles.

The only basis you can make for your argument is Cork.. Club champ is probably the poorest in Munster and you cant really seen any club from there getting near it for a while... The Glen yesterday were the most tactically stupid and naïve team I've seen for a while..

Ballygunner Sars and Na Piarsaigh have all been around the block at this level for years and all of them have stopped short at some stage but to say they have a big upper hand cause they are from Tipp or Limerick doesn't make sense.. Unless you have time on your hands and are getting around to all club championships to see how each team is motoring then an opinion best on one game in bad conditions against poor opposition is no benchmark. The amount of intercounty lads you have obviously gives you more of a chance but I can find usually by now the intercounty lads can be a bit tired and its usually the good club players who treat these games like there time to shine can come to the fore.. If we based Munster club on the number of intercounty lads you have likes of a Sars or a cratloe have really under achieved at this grade..

22nd of November could be a shockingly bad day weather wise which makes it a coin toss and gunners showed yesterday they can play in it (albeit they are meant to be soft) Then what if they managed to win a final and have Philip and probably Pauric in the mix would you rule them out?

Three starters from last years team also, so If you ask me I think they have showed plenty of stomach for the fight.

Mountainlad · 10-11-2015 12:33AM

TTM you're not even reading what I'm saying. Trying to make out as if I said Ballygunner are going to win the club all ireland...I said if they had their two best players available for the munster final I'd give them a great chance and by extension a great chance in winning the all ireland. But they don't so I think playing one of in my opinion the two best teams left in the competition on paper will be a bridge too far.

Better Ballygunner teams eh? The first time they've done back to back since the 90s. If Ballygunner were from Kilkenny and did what they did to Glen in the second half yesterday you'd be raving about them.

Clara are a good side, no better. And I don't think they'll win a club all ireland. Outside of Ballyhale, the Kilkenny county champs have won the all ireland once since 1991. Galway, Clare and Offaly have had as many or more winners in that time. Even Antrim have won a club all ireland. Your point about Kilkennys legacy is absolute tripe.

There's more depth to the Waterford club championship now than there ever was. There may only be one top team but before there might have been two and then the rest was just dead rubbers. Now you have to be on your game all the time.

thinkstoomuch1 · 10-11-2015 12:53AM

Brad1234 wrote: »

I can see no reason why the gunners cant win the next day.. Albeit with the loss of Philip now is huge there is plenty of strength in depth there for Munster club Hurling conditions to fill the gap.. It will be difficult but its team work that gets your through this time of year and they seem to have that this year more so than previous.. But to dismiss them based on old mythological tradition is in some bluffers guide to hurling somewhere..

You cant really compare their Waterford champ cause they won that in 2nd gear. Still able to bring subs like Stephen Power JJ Hutchinson shows that the quality Is there..

You don't need to have a strong club scene to win it if anything you can be too battle hardened by the time it comes to a munster final or all Ireland semi..

Just cause a Waterford team hasn't won it before doesn't mean they cant win it now that is a nonsense argument.. I don't think the ballygunner lads will be thinking about it in lead up or during matches and they are a young group who are used to winning titles.

The only basis you can make for your argument is Cork.. Club champ is probably the poorest in Munster and you cant really seen any club from there getting near it for a while... The Glen yesterday were the most tactically stupid and naïve team I've seen for a while..

Ballygunner Sars and Na Piarsaigh have all been around the block at this level for years and all of them have stopped short at some stage but to say they have a big upper hand cause they are from Tipp or Limerick doesn't make sense.. Unless you have time on your hands and are getting around to all club championships to see how each team is motoring then an opinion best on one game in bad conditions against poor opposition is no benchmark. The amount of intercounty lads you have obviously gives you more of a chance but I cant find usually by now the intercounty lads can be a bit tired and its usually the good club players who treat these games like there time to shine can come to the fore.. If we based Munster club on the number of intercounty lads you have likes of a Sars or a cratloe have really under achieved at this grade..

22nd of November could be a shockingly bad day weather wise which makes it a coin toss and gunners showed yesterday they can play in it (albeit they are meant to be soft) Then what if they managed to win a final and have Philip and probably Pauric in the mix would you rule them out?

Three starters from last years team also, so If you ask me I think they have showed plenty of stomach for the fight.

I agree the glen were awful yesterday no doubt about that but that my point until Ballygunner beat something proven it's reasonable I have doubts

I never said that not winning a club mean they will never win it my point is that waterford club championship having never won all ireland it's fair to say concerns about the strength of it remains
I don't think it's a traditional myth but common logic imo as considering many now say southern heimpshere stronger based on performance in the world cup imo the same concept while winning waterford is fine I wouldn't be getting carried away that bally gunner are better than the rest
It's not a case of watching every club games but there is such a thing as knowing other teams by seeing teams picked etc and players they have
Irrespective of kk not winning outside ballyhale in the championship my view is the kk senior hurling championship is better than waterford or at worst equal
Na Piarsaigh I had as favourite because they never lose munster game and I think they have better players
Just my opinion of course I could be wrong.
My point was regards being from limerick was limerick team are physically strong and Ballygunner wouldn't dominating them like yesterday and once that is done they imo have better forwards

thinkstoomuch1 · 10-11-2015 12:57AM

Mountainlad wrote: »

TTM you're not even reading what I'm saying. Trying to make out as if I said Ballygunner are going to win the club all ireland...I said if they had their two best players available for the munster final I'd give them a great chance and by extension a great chance in winning the all ireland. But they don't so I think playing one of in my opinion the two best teams left in the competition on paper will be a bridge too far.

Better Ballygunner teams eh? The first time they've done back to back since the 90s. If Ballygunner were from Kilkenny and did what they did to Glen in the second half yesterday you'd be raving about them.

Clara are a good side, no better. And I don't think they'll win a club all ireland. Outside of Ballyhale, the Kilkenny county champs have won the all ireland once since 1991. Galway, Clare and Offaly have had as many or more winners in that time. Even Antrim have won a club all ireland. Your point about Kilkennys legacy is absolute tripe.

There's more depth to the Waterford club championship now than there ever was. There may only be one top team but before there might have been two and then the rest was just dead rubbers. Now you have to be on your game all the time.

I agree with your sentiment but my point about kk legacy is any team in kk has huge hunger and intensity to win and the fact coola second time in leinster now they will want to drive forward just like ballygunner and I wouldn't write off the kk team

Brad1234 · 10-11-2015 01:04AM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I agree the glen were awful yesterday no doubt about that but that my point until Ballygunner beat something proven it's reasonable I have doubts

I never said that not winning a club mean they will never win it my point is that waterford club championship having never won all ireland it's fair to say concerns about the strength of it remains
I don't think it's a traditional myth but common logic imo as considering many now say southern heimpshere stronger based on performance in the world cup imo the same concept while winning waterford is fine I wouldn't be getting carried away that bally gunner are better than the rest
It's not a case of watching every club games but there is such a thing as knowing other teams by seeing teams picked etc and players they have
Irrespective of kk not winning outside ballyhale in the championship my view is the kk senior hurling championship is better than waterford or at worst equal
Na Piarsaigh I had as favourite because they never lose munster game and I think they have better players
Just my opinion of course I could be wrong.
My point was regards being from limerick was limerick team are physically strong and Ballygunner wouldn't dominating them like yesterday and once that is done they imo have better forwards

Who is on about winning all Irelands. You are running away with yourself here.. Ballygunner have a pretty good record at this level so I have no idea what you are taking about.. You are basing it on Intercounty players as you haven't a breeze of the club players on both sides.. Surely on that logic Sars are the favourites to win it out?

Na Piarsaigh are a big side? Intercounty lads are.. If my memory serves me right lot of nippy lads around them does that change the logic now?

thinkstoomuch1 · 10-11-2015 01:53AM

Brad1234 wrote: »

Who is on about winning all Irelands. You are running away with yourself here.. Ballygunner have a pretty good record at this level so I have no idea what you are taking about.. You are basing it on Intercounty players as you haven't a breeze of the club players on both sides.. Surely on that logic Sars are the favourites to win it out?

Na Piarsaigh are a big side? Intercounty lads are.. If my memory serves me right lot of nippy lads around them does that change the logic now?

No your misinterpreted my point either by choice or not with respect
I know a lot about the players from most team my point is you don't have to watch every club games to do that this year alone
As George hook once said to Brian o Driscoll when he critsed valid points in response to o driscoll saying he no right to critse hook reply was do all voters for president have to be ex president
No they do not
My point was simply that even with the two absent players i belive still Ballygunner wouldn't win the all ireland as was said here by a poster in he felt they would have
Fair enough it's he's opinion but I don't share that opinion
It's not all about inter county player but have no doubt Downes dowling lynch casey etc with na Piarsaigh all help them as it gets to the business end of things
Fair enough you have a different opinions to myself
Where did I specify big in i said na Piarsaigh are a limerick team that thrive on physical side of the game like limerick team do and that aggression and tough hurling that bally gunner correctly brought yesterday imo na Piarsaigh would do also as the cork senior club hurling has again been shown up for lacking physical toughness

robopaddy2 · 10-11-2015 08:09AM

People seem to be discounting Thurles Sars who Na Piarsaigh still have to play, I'd actually fancy Thurles to beat them, they've been knocking on the door with a while now and traditionally Limerick teams don't do well as favourites.

deiseach · 10-11-2015 10:25AM

Mountainlad, you're a glutton for punishment.

Mountainlad · 10-11-2015 08:01PM

I also think Thurles will win though its a game that could turn on a break.

I never said I thought Ballygunner would win the all ireland if they had the two Mahonys. I said they'd have a very good chance of winning Munster and I think the Munster winners will win it out. But I still think they'd have a really tough game in the final either way, one they may or may not have won. I don't think they will win now but I wouldn't totally discount them. They deserve more respect than that.

DiscoStew · 10-11-2015 09:29PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I agree with your sentiment but my point about kk legacy is any team in kk has huge hunger and intensity to win and the fact coola second time in leinster now they will want to drive forward just like ballygunner and I wouldn't write off the kk team

For such a big fan of the Kilkenny champs you'd think you'd be able to spell their name. Or even something reasonably close to it.

Clara not Coola!!

thinkstoomuch1 · 10-11-2015 10:21PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

And some big score takers from midfield, with talented lads inside. A very good team all round. I think if they had both Mahonys available they'd have a great chance of going all the way but unfortunately think it might be a bridge too far the next day against Classy opposition without those two stalwarts.

It's a pity because a very poor championship outside of Munster this year.

From that post to be fair it was reasonable to assume you meant the all ireland by saying all the way
I share that the view na Piarsaigh in some eyes don't like most limerick team handle favourite tags well and you would always while I think they should win you can't be sure how they deal with favourite

The kk champions game with Dublin championship in leinster will be close and Dublin champions have David Tracey colm Cronin Cian o Callaghan and schutte with ex kerry hurler o connell so that game will be a good test how good the kk champions are in leinster

archieknox · 11-11-2015 01:32AM

Feed a stray dog and he'll keep coming back!

Waternut · 11-11-2015 11:17AM

Best of luck to De la Salle in the Dean Ryan cup final.

The Dickler · 11-11-2015 12:41PM

TTM
I was just about to make the mistake of engaging with you but just in time I remembered what the source of your bitterness is. Earlier in the year, before they met in the league semi you initiated an argument about how player for player Cork were far superior to their Waterford counterparts. As the Summer progressed and Waterford took every opportunity to expose your assumptions as ridiculous your bitterness increased proportionally.
League semi.....whipped.
Championship.....whipped.
U21.....whipped.
Summary of Cork hurling 2015......OWNED by Waterford.

Why don't you have a little bit of respect for yourself and your county and keep quiet until next year. A little bit of dignity required now.

Gary Gurny · 11-11-2015 12:47PM

The Dickler wrote: »

TTM
I was just about to make the mistake of engaging with you but just in time I remembered what the source of your bitterness is. Earlier in the year, before they met in the league semi you initiated an argument about how player for player Cork were far superior to their Waterford counterparts. As the Summer progressed and Waterford took every opportunity to expose your assumptions as ridiculous your bitterness increased proportionally.
League semi.....whipped.
Championship.....whipped.
U21.....whipped.
Summary of Cork hurling 2015......OWNED by Waterford.

Why don't you have a little bit of respect for yourself and your county and keep quiet until next year. A little bit of dignity required now.

Well said! Cork hurling is at an all time low. New manager will not change anything , everyone knows he is just another puppet for the co board. Kingston has zero tactical knowledge , comes from the exact same school of thought as JBM which was shown over past two years as being completely outdated. To me when I look at the Cork hurlers I see a team of individuals, all their forwards are lovely hurlers when left hurl but can't cope when they are marked tight. Their backs can't defend and are totally and utterly hopeless when teams withdraw players out the field and run direct at them. Major surgery needed and to me looking at who they brought onto the panel this year it's obvious they haven't the players within the county to remedy this.

hardybuck · 11-11-2015 12:48PM

Worth pointing out that the Waterford County Board have been called out on a number of high profile media outlets since the debacle of the football final.

The Off the Ball team raised it a number of times last night in an interview with Paraic Duffy who said he could not or would not defend that sort of practice. The Irish Times wrote a piece about it last week, and it was on Newstalk's morning show again this morning.

thinkstoomuch1 · 11-11-2015 01:03PM

Waternut wrote: »

Best of luck to De la Salle in the Dean Ryan cup final.

Ard scoil are favourite and were favourite at the start and are coached good with niall moran involved in some way
De la salle have a chance as ard scoil were pushed all the way in the semi and haven't won the dean in a few years and is the one school competition haven't always dominated like others
Two good team in the final so should be a good game
All ireland final is at start December if any of these team win this and the semi

Mountainlad · 11-11-2015 08:30PM

I would be critical of the board for the whole playoff ****e, and that they caused it originally by thinking DLS would play a football match the Tuesday before the relegation final.

But, we go to the league final, Munster final and then still played until August. There's not an awful lot of room for maneuvre. I noticed that on newstalk this morning they didn't mention Kerry, dunno did they last night? But they don't have dual clubs to deal with, so no excuse for Legion playing Friday and Sunday next week. Portlaoise had to do the same, because the Laois county champs inexplciably don't start till late July.

Now that aside, this has happened last year with Wexford and Tipperary not having club representatives for the provincial football. Similarly, Cratloe in 2013 when Clare won the all ireland. For that to happen so many times says its a national issue. So for Pauric Duffy to say they can't get involved is an absolute cop out and classic hierarchy GAA.

Helpneeded86 · 11-11-2015 10:44PM

Any thoughts on Fenor at the weekend? They are out against Ennistimon.

Ennistimon exited the Clare championship at the SF stage.

They scraped a win against the Tipp representatives who exited their county championship at the SF stage. They were defeated in the divisional final by 20 points. They were missing two key players on the day aswell.

Ennistimon lost their CB through injury in that game.

Fenor have home advantage.

PP opened up today with Fenor at 7/4 they are now 8/15. I still think that price represents value from a betting point of view. I think the real price should be 1/3 at least.

robopaddy2 · 12-11-2015 03:04AM

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

Any thoughts on Fenor at the weekend? They are out against Ennistimon.

Ennistimon exited the Clare championship at the SF stage.

They scraped a win against the Tipp representatives who exited their county championship at the SF stage. They were defeated in the divisional final by 20 points. They were missing two key players on the day aswell.

Ennistimon lost their CB through injury in that game.

Fenor have home advantage.

PP opened up today with Fenor at 7/4 they are now 8/15. I still think that price represents value from a betting point of view. I think the real price should be 1/3 at least.

Fenor are actually assisted by Kill this year, who couldn't field a hurling tem due to lack of numbers. I don't know if too many people were aware of that, as much as I don't want to take from their first county win. I'm not sure exactly how many of the starting team came from Kill but Kill themselves were intermediate hurling as a stand alone only a few years ago so I'd imagine they still have some useful hurlers. Youd have to give Fenor a big chance on that basis.

Hope it goes a bit better for Fenor than their last outing in Munster a few years back. They were beaten by Lismore in the co final as Lismore were a second string side they couldn't compete in Munster. Fenor ended up getting a cricket score hammering off Kilworth of Cork on their home ground. But were understandably a deflated side after another disappointing co final loss.

thesultan · 12-11-2015 11:10PM

I see that De la salle Ballygunner u21 is gone to extra time

thegambler2 · 14-11-2015 10:05PM

Dungarvan look very strong u21 this year, the older stronger team vs abbeyside who to there credit gave a hearty performance... thought darragh lyons and cathal curran were very good.....who else would be contenders at this age? Lismore?

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

Comments

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1