Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

davegrohl48 · 18-07-2015 9:51pm

James ODonoghue was outstanding. I would imagine had the most posessions. Never lost ball, scored, won frees, made passes. That was over the full 70. If thinking he was way off MOTM thats bias against Carney really.

acequion · 18-07-2015 10:36pm

I love JOD but I didn't think he was that great tonight. I thought Enright was superb and he'd be my man of the match.

Total deluge in Killarney. A winter's night in mid July. So twas brilliant to come out on the right side.

homerjay2005 · 18-07-2015 11:29pm

Enright was my MOM too, followed by Moran and Murphy.

job Done.

Kerrydude1981 · 19-07-2015 10:56am

Will be interesting to see what the plan is when the lads run out in Croke Park,will Donaghy be on the bench?

Could we see a full forward line of Gooch,O Donoghue and Geaney?

Interesting few months ahead

keane2097 · 19-07-2015 11:12am

Good win in the end, but has to be said - for all our forward talent the tactic of lapping big high ball in all day was genuinely distressing.

I'm a huge fan of Donaghy and think he makes more of the garbage he gets as ball than anyone else ever would, but I now hope he's dropped because of how the rest of the team seem to give up on being good footballers when he's inside.

The_Honeybadger · 19-07-2015 11:36am

keane2097 wrote: »

Good win in the end, but has to be said - for all our forward talent the tactic of lapping big high ball in all day was genuinely distressing.

I'm a huge fan of Donaghy and think he makes more of the garbage he gets as ball than anyone else ever would, but I now hope he's dropped because of how the rest of the team seem to give up on being good footballers when he's inside.

Agree entirely. At times yesterday it was like winding the clock back 3-4 years when our only tactic seemed to be to launch big high balls into the square. This is a useful option but should not be our main focus. It's too easy for the opposition to double up and shut him down. Cork did this very well yesterday.

I don't want to see him dropped as there will always be those 2-3 moments in the game where he wreaks havoc, and he creates goal chances out of nothing, however they need to start using him more sensibly. It was all too predictable yesterday.

Stinicker · 19-07-2015 12:35pm

I would like to see Tommy Walsh inside full forward for the next game and lob the high ball into him, Walsh can catch, Donaghy reminds me only of a seal bobbing a beach ball on his nose, however eventually Donaghy does pull it off as we saw in the drawn game and against Mayo last year. But if we had consistent big man catcher and with JOD and Gooch either side then we would roast all opposition in front of us. Tommy Walsh in the man and should either be started the next day or else introduced early. He came back here from a career in Australia and should be given a run, there would have been no all-Ireland in 2009 were it not for him and Tadgh Kennelly. Alternatively Paul Geaney at Full Forward.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 19-07-2015 12:51pm

Stinicker wrote: »

I would like to see Tommy Walsh inside full forward for the next game and lob the high ball into him, Walsh can catch, Donaghy reminds me only of a seal bobbing a beach ball on his nose, however eventually Donaghy does pull it off as we saw in the drawn game and against Mayo last year. But if we had consistent big man catcher and with JOD and Gooch either side then we would roast all opposition in front of us. Tommy Walsh in the man and should either be started the next day or else introduced early. He came back here from a career in Australia and should be given a run, there would have been no all-Ireland in 2009 were it not for him and Tadgh Kennelly. Alternatively Paul Geaney at Full Forward.

Tommy can barely run since his bad hamstring injury

The_Honeybadger · 19-07-2015 12:53pm

Stinicker wrote: »

I would like to see Tommy Walsh inside full forward for the next game and lob the high ball into him, Walsh can catch, Donaghy reminds me only of a seal bobbing a beach ball on his nose, however eventually Donaghy does pull it off as we saw in the drawn game and against Mayo last year. But if we had consistent big man catcher and with JOD and Gooch either side then we would roast all opposition in front of us. Tommy Walsh in the man and should either be started the next day or else introduced early. He came back here from a career in Australia and should be given a run, there would have been no all-Ireland in 2009 were it not for him and Tadgh Kennelly. Alternatively Paul Geaney at Full Forward.

We all know how good Walsh can be but he has to earn his place back. He's not getting a run at the minute for a reason. Admittedly I only saw him once this year but he looked a pale shadow of the tommy Walsh that was instrumental in the 2009 AI win. Not very mobile and devoid of any confidence.

Donaghy is the man for FF at the moment, they just need to break this complete over reliance on him. Tbh I doubt it's something that the management are actively pushing the team to do. I'd say it's more a trap the players keep falling in to during the game, knowing he is inside and knowing how much damage he can do makes it the easy option. Trouble is it's easy to defend against when you know where the ball is going every time.

Axel Lamp · 19-07-2015 3:40pm

Tis easy to criticise Donaghy but when you look at the havoc he causes once the right ball is sent in to him he's a great option to have. Compare it to Cork yesterday when they sent AOC into FF and lumped aimless useless ball into a man not used to being a FF.

An Ciarraioch · 19-07-2015 3:43pm

Interesting consequences from the Ulster final - Donegal now drop into Dublin's side of the draw, while we would face Monaghan/Sligo/Tyrone/Galway if we negotiate the QF.

ShamoBuc · 19-07-2015 4:02pm

Axel Lamp wrote: »

Tis easy to criticise Donaghy but when you look at the havoc he causes once the right ball is sent in to him he's a great option to have. Compare it to Cork yesterday when they sent AOC into FF and lumped aimless useless ball into a man not used to being a FF.

But that was aimless useless ball Cork drove in. Kerry give very good ball in to Donaghy, because they practice it, there's a big difference.

Stinicker · 19-07-2015 5:11pm

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Interesting consequences from the Ulster final - Donegal now drop into Dublin's side of the draw, while we would face Monaghan/Sligo/Tyrone/Galway if we negotiate the QF.

I'd say a Kerry - Tyrone Semi-Final is the most likely outcome, Monaghan were bad and Donegal worse two teams paralyzed with negativity and a fear to attack. Tyrone will only improve and it remains to be seen if Monaghan can develop enough of an attacking style to defeat Tyrone. Could we see a wounded Donegal resurface and put Dublin to the sword again? or will Mayo re-emerge as a force to be reckoned with.

Stinicker · 19-07-2015 5:16pm

I am not trying to be critical of Donaghy and infairness there is always two men on him which hinders him from making that clean catch alot of the time, yesterdays conditions were no help either and he was like a seal for a bit. He can cause absolute havoc for the backs and taking him off was huge gutsy move by Fitzmaurice. He will have a big part to play yet in our campaign but I'd like to use the next Westmeath or Fermanagh game as an experimentation to tryout new ideas and rest our main men, last thing we'd want is some lad injured going in against Tyrone or Monaghan in a semi-Final and we would need to be on all gun blazing if for example we met Dublin in an All-Ireland final.

homerjay2005 · 19-07-2015 10:33pm

Donaghy normally doesn't come alive until August, give him a break

In fairness, yesterday was not a day for high ball, in a monsoon the last thing you do is pound balls into the FF but I guess the theory was breaking ball and in fairness we got 3 of not 4 scores off it.

Ease off on the Star a little for feck sake!

davegrohl48 · 20-07-2015 6:01pm

Like the tactic of playing Donaghy regardless. Has to be often double covered. Is a huge creator of goals and scoreable frees. To play devils advocate I am interested in JODs stats from every play. "He scored 1pt" is juvenile analysis. He also won a close in free. On a day when Donaghy couldnt catch ball who was the main outlet up the right wing? Constantly JOD. There is a convenient bandeagon being jumped on that Loughrey played well!!!! He was beat for almost every ball. JODs passes were all near the scoring zone on a pissing wet day in a low scoring game. I agree that Enright Murphy n Moran all great too. But JOD was a huge contributor in securing solid posession close to goal a huge volume of times. Will check stats of his plays.

thinkstoomuch1 · 20-07-2015 7:11pm

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Like the tactic of playing Donaghy regardless. Has to be often double covered. Is a huge creator of goals and scoreable frees. To play devils advocate I am interested in JODs stats from every play. "He scored 1pt" is juvenile analysis. He also won a close in free. On a day when Donaghy couldnt catch ball who was the main outlet up the right wing? Constantly JOD. There is a convenient bandeagon being jumped on that Loughrey played well!!!! He was beat for almost every ball. JODs passes were all near the scoring zone on a pissing wet day in a low scoring game. I agree that Enright Murphy n Moran all great too. But JOD was a huge contributor in securing solid posession close to goal a huge volume of times. Will check stats of his plays.

Your bang bang bang on the level hype and sheer nonsense loughrey played well is rubbish

I'm saying the last two days cork thread he's awful game
He's outstanding half back but not man marker

Our management still can't see the light of day with this

davegrohl48 · 20-07-2015 7:31pm

I seen in Indo article talking about Loughrey turning JOD back out. From what I see JOD collected, spun and passed all quickly in control of his decision making. One ball he was force fumbled he back pedalled n repicked. A phenomenal regain of the ball.
Did JOD win the free for the goal?
Winning the ball in a controlled manner inside 45 is a huge boost in bad conditions. He was pacing himself also. No player can burn players towards goal when yer running on sodden ground. Be gassed after five such runs n have no energy left to shoot. Those are tactics for a dry day.

davegrohl48 · 21-07-2015 8:51am

Rewatched the game last night.
JOD was a decent choice as MOTM. Stats show should have been David Moran. Murphy/Enright not as much impact.
Stats and positives/negatives:
1. 22 posessions most of any forward all within 50 yards of goal
2. Won 2 close frees both scored
3. Assist to Walsh accurate sideline
4. Assist to Lyne
5. Assist to David Moran winning close free (scored)
6. Scored 1 great point himself
7. Was 19 of 22 in terms of positive use of posession. 20 of 23 if count his second scored free.
8. Rewon a ball from the ground
9. Gave two accurate passes to Donaghy, Donaghy should have held one n on other shove in back of Donaghy
Negatives:
- 1 wide 1 to keeper 1 blocked.
-

Boom__Boom · 21-07-2015 11:22am

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Rewatched the game last night.
JOD was a decent choice as MOTM. Stats show should have been David Moran. Murphy/Enright not as much impact.
Stats and positives/negatives:
1. 22 posessions most of any forward all within 50 yards of goal
2. Won 2 close frees both scored
3. Assist to Walsh accurate sideline
4. Assist to Lyne
5. Assist to David Moran winning close free (scored)
6. Scored 1 great point himself
7. Was 19 of 22 in terms of positive use of posession. 20 of 23 if count his second scored free.
8. Rewon a ball from the ground
9. Gave two accurate passes to Donaghy, Donaghy should have held one n on other shove in back of Donaghy
Negatives:
- 1 wide 1 to keeper 1 blocked.
-

Moran was definitely robbed in the motm competition but totally agree JOD had a very decent game.

When you look at the attacking threat of the half-forward line - Buckley, Walsh and Sheehan (none of them are what I would describe as serious creators) I wouldnt be surprised if the plan by Kerry was to use JOD as a creator as opposed to a finisher. Anyone thinking Loughrey had a decent game on him would want their head examined imo.

DDC1990 · 21-07-2015 12:07pm

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Moran was definitely robbed in the motm competition but totally agree JOD had a very decent game.

When you look at the attacking threat of the half-forward line - Buckley, Walsh and Sheehan (none of them are what I would describe as serious creators) I wouldnt be surprised if the plan by Kerry was to use JOD as a creator as opposed to a finisher. Anyone thinking Loughrey had a decent game on him would want their head examined imo.

I thought Loughry had a good game on him. What is he meant to do?

He can't play him from the front, O'Donoghue would be in behind all day.

You have to play him from behind and limit his scoring opportunities, and hope that the rest of your team mates do as good a job.

It would be like saying Hurley had a great game against Shane Enright, because he won 5 or 6 balls out in front.

In reality, Shane played him perfectly, let him have the ball and hammer into him, don't let him pass.

davegrohl48 · 21-07-2015 12:28pm

To be fair to Loughrey and I watched the game using the pause button. He had a mixed bag and I don't think any defender would have stopped JOD.
Positives:
1. He never allowed JOD burn him and lets say create a dangerous overlap for a goal opportunity
2. He got in one block. But it has to be said, JOD had collected inside the 21, being so close to goal, the subsequent ball was turned over at the 21 and scored. Loughrey got in the block but JOD collecting inside the 21 meant that posession was close to goal.
3. He put pressure on JOD to force the wide in the second half
Negatives:
- JOD was just an automatic outlet either for kickpasses into the centre 40 yards from goal or out to the left and right wings.
- JOD was constantly able to make himself available as the outlet for players who ended up under pressure. If under pressure give it to JOD. When you looked at David Moran he was scanning the pitch for JOD every time.
- 22 posessions to JOD and that was just by the point of the MOTM being awarded. I am likely missing 1 or 2 posessions from the final 4 minutes of the game as I counted the stats to the point where Carney awarded the MOTM.
- Gave away a scoreable free with a jersey tug in second half

D'Agger · 21-07-2015 12:33pm

DDC1990 wrote: »

I thought Loughry had a good game on him. What is he meant to do?

He can't play him from the front, O'Donoghue would be in behind all day.

You have to play him from behind and limit his scoring opportunities, and hope that the rest of your team mates do as good a job.

It would be like saying Hurley had a great game against Shane Enright, because he won 5 or 6 balls out in front.

In reality, Shane played him perfectly, let him have the ball and hammer into him, don't let him pass.

Loughry had a good game on him from a damage limitation POV - he restricted James impact on the scoreboard by shadowing him very well, even James point, I thought Loughry had it blocked, he was incredibly close to him all game, that said, Loughery didn't exactly negate James - as the stats above show, he got on plenty of ball, worked very hard off it with his runs & was involved in plenty of scores.

It wasn't a MOTM performance but it was an industrious display nonetheless. Hurley got on the ball, made no inroads but then went backwards every time & didn't work hard enough off the ball like James did, to cause Enright any substantial concern.

I do believe Moran should have gotten it because the game was won around the middle - the argument could be made that James was allowed to play the way he did due to more ball being won around the middle and receiving more posession than the starved Hurley but for me, James went looking for it, Hurley wasn't showing enough throughout.

davegrohl48 · 21-07-2015 12:36pm

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Moran was definitely robbed in the motm competition but totally agree JOD had a very decent game.

When you look at the attacking threat of the half-forward line - Buckley, Walsh and Sheehan (none of them are what I would describe as serious creators) I wouldnt be surprised if the plan by Kerry was to use JOD as a creator as opposed to a finisher. Anyone thinking Loughrey had a decent game on him would want their head examined imo.

JOD is an excellent creator and I think for the following reasons.
1. His running for the ball is excellent with defenders and midfielders always able to pick out his runs
2. His collecting of the ball is as close to error free as you can get.
3. His pace means he is very difficult to man mark. If you double cover that is a huge assignement of effort. If you cover from front he can burn in behind. If you cover behind he has the 1 yard step to collect out in front
4. His passing is absolutely on the money. The simple bread and butter stuff he does do a brilliant level. His sideline to Walsh, Walsh could take in his stride and pop it over. His pass to Lyne was similar. His handpass to Moran was in stride.
5. He can win dirty ball as demonstrated with his first scoreable free and with his regain of a ball on one fumble.
6. With Donaghy, Geaney inside providing height and scoring it might be worth having JOD out the pitch helping to win the middle 8 battle.
7. With his damaged shoulder do you want him double covered inside with no space in tight footraces against likes of the McGees/Wylies/OCarroll.

keane2097 · 21-07-2015 1:02pm

TBH, considering the lauding that Keith Higgins got last year despite JOD scoring about 3-10 in two games Loughrey should be an automatic All Star after the last two weeks.

An Ciarraioch · 21-07-2015 1:25pm

Very disappointing to hear Eamon Kelly has quit as hurling manager - of course everyone will wish him well if he's another job lined up, but will be extremely difficult to find a replacement of his calibre.

homerjay2005 · 21-07-2015 1:47pm

Loughrey had a fine game the last day, as good as any player who marked him in the last 2 years.

D'Agger · 21-07-2015 2:02pm

keane2097 wrote: »

TBH, considering the lauding that Keith Higgins got last year despite JOD scoring about 3-10 in two games Loughrey should be an automatic All Star after the last two weeks.

Higgins won a few balls out in front though :pac:

Proper back vs. forward duel in that game - really added to what was a fantastic game in fairness

keane2097 · 21-07-2015 2:02pm

D'Agger wrote: »

Higgins won a few balls out in front though :pac:

Proper back vs. forward duel in that game - really added to what was a fantastic game in fairness

JOD destroyed him tbh. Loughrey did a much better job.

D'Agger · 21-07-2015 2:05pm

keane2097 wrote: »

JOD destroyed him tbh. Loughrey did a much better job.

Agreed - Higgins winning one or two then James getting some great scores got the crowd going & really added to the game is all I'm saying....must watch that semi final replay again actually, Morans best performance in a Kerry jersey, Jonathan Lynes beast of a point etc. some match!

Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

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