Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

keane2097

D'Agger wrote: »

How'd you feel about Barry John in the half forward line? Not as effective but still well able to contribute scores as well as put in a hard slog around the middle on breaks etc.

Not convinced he has the gas for it.

D'Agger

keane2097 wrote: »

Not convinced he has the gas for it.

Not many players do in fairness given the demands of that position but could do a job for 50mins then use the bench. He's played there before for u21 - granted it's not his best position but if it allows himself & Geaney in the same team then I'd be happy to see it

keane2097

D'Agger wrote: »

Not many players do in fairness given the demands of that position but could do a job for 50mins then use the bench. He's played there before for u21 - granted it's not his best position but if it allows himself & Geaney in the same team then I'd be happy to see it

IDK if you're going to put him on the wing tracking runners you should just pick Michael Geaney and get on with it.

D'Agger

keane2097 wrote: »

IDK if you're going to put him on the wing tracking runners you should just pick Michael Geaney and get on with it.

Well, with wing forwards, you can get forward and pick scores too - Galvin averaged 2/3 points per game when he was cleaning up around midfield a few years back, even Walsh is known to bomb forward on occasion & pick off a goal - I think with BJK we've a player who's well able to kick a score, Geaney doesn't offer that, he doesn't attempt venturing forward, he sits & on occasion that's not whats required, despite being the safer option.

keane2097

D'Agger wrote: »

Well, with wing forwards, you can get forward and pick scores too - Galvin averaged 2/3 points per game when he was cleaning up around midfield a few years back, even Walsh is known to bomb forward on occasion & pick off a goal - I think with BJK we've a player who's well able to kick a score, Geaney doesn't offer that, he doesn't attempt venturing forward, he sits & on occasion that's not whats required, despite being the safer option.

For this particular game I think you'd be better off with Geaney if you're going that route. We weren't short of scorers last time out.

seligehgit

keane2097 wrote: »

I think dropping any of the full forward line would be harsh. As a unit they were very efficient score-wise for the amount of decent ball they got.

Agreed but looking in from the outside it appears that Fitzmaurice will continue to be the type of manager unafraid to make the big calls(dropping his captain irrespective of the unfairness of it as you quite correctly outlined) and if he feels that a different system/player would offer the Cork full back/backline a greater level of threat.He has invariably got the calls right in the past,his tactical ability and ruthlessness in making the big decisions has marked him out as a top top manager.

davegrohl48

Bomber suggests deploying Tommy Walsh to negate impact of Alan OConnor.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/eoin-liston-bring-walsh-in-from-the-cold-to-raise-heat-on-rebels-31363145.html
Specifically Tommy Walsh' mobility!!! Has he seen him play this year. He was only able to contribute in one role and that was in the full forward line.
He is no longer able to run. It's not that it was a question of being a short bit off match fitness. He can no longer run like he used to.

keane2097

seligehgit wrote: »

Agreed but looking in from the outside it appears that Fitzmaurice will continue to be the type of manager unafraid to make the big calls(dropping his captain irrespective of the unfairness of it as you quite correctly outlined) and if he feels that a different system/player would offer the Cork full back/backline a greater level of threat.He has invariably got the calls right in the past,his tactical ability and ruthlessness in making the big decisions has marked him out as a top top manager.

I don't mean harsh in the sense of "ah sure they did their best" I mean in terms of their performance.

For the amount of ball played in the three inside men did unreal damage.

- BJK had eight possessions, scored two points from play, won a converted free and played an accurate ball to Donaghy that resulted in a D Walsh point.

- Donaghy had six possessions and was probably responsible for 2-2 or 2-3 as well as a black card to Kerrigan.

- James had 11 touches and got plenty return from it, I haven't gone through it to say exactly how much he earned.

All the focus on the FF line is deranged when it was the only line on the pitch that functioned, and functioned excellently at that.

thinkstoomuch1

(

The Kingdom can take some consolation from the fact that after giving Cork a 1-1 head-start they out-scored them 1-9 to 0-4 in the rest of the first half. They'll be thinking 'if we just played like that for a bit of the second half we'd have won'.

From just ten attacks after they break they scored 1-6 and that's a brilliant return against a defence that made it so hard for them.

It was worrying that O'Donoghue, who has taken 16 shots against Cork and scored with 15 of them over the past four seasons, didn't see the ball for 20-plus minutes.)





The bomber today interesting stats
I think kerry were complacent sunday for many different reasons and I said it on the cork thread as soon as I saw the kerry team and even down by half time four points I posted cork had goals there and kerry were still for the taking
Imo it was ovibously the focus kerry had for Cork wasn't there to what it should been and I have huge concerns for the next day


Im genuinely not playing yerra as lot hard core lads here know it's not my style when I review a game but I think cork played well but no where near as it's been said in the media despite imo kerry not at full peak
The warm weather training camp so close to the game i think kerry fitness was off and Cork have been running hard since November
It will be equal next week


Also cork only had four lads scored in total, cork all along I have a huge concerns we play as individuals and not as a team
Kerry as bad as there were individuals wise with some had ten different scorers and imo kerry have a default system when individuals are off the boil
Also cork only scores one point in the last twenty minutes and a goal but nothing points wise from play

We didn't make one change to kerry three for close to an hour bar the enforced changes
Concerns remain over our management ability to read a game in flow and ruthlessly make changes then to rectify it

A lot here and the bomber correctly critsed fitzmaurice tactics but I'd be shocked if he repeats them again the next day.

ciarriaithuaidh

When you think about it, as I'm sure some have, there are a number of possible selections, but there are a few logical "pillars" that apply i would think.

1. Paul Geaney HAS to start. He is capable of causing huge damage in the air or on the ground and caused havoc when he came on Sunday.
2. Gooch is not 100%, so better to bring him on rather than start. When the game has broken up is when he'll have more effect.
3. The half back line has to be capable of defending before you even think about attack. Lyne was badly caught on occasion the last day especially, plus Crowley wilted badly and couldn't cope with Paddy Kelly.
4. Half forward line has to have the legs at all times to cover back. Barry O'Driscoll didn't do much defending the last day and was given licence to get forward. This has to be picked up AND the defence cannot part like the red sea again as it did at times last Sunday.

Regarding no.1..what I wanted to pick, was a full forward line of James, Geaney, BJK. (Donaghy was the least effective of the FF line) The problem of course is that if a good proportion of ball going into 14 is high ball again, then you could end up with the same situation, Cadogan breaking a load of it out and you won't get as much return out of it as you'd like. If ball going into Geaney at 14 is mostly low bounced ball, Cork will play 1/2 sweepers and it will be hard to get much advantage from it. Therefore I think you need to have Donaghy, with Geaney as another option inside there also. This leaves one spot in the FF line..and there is no way James can be left out as he is capable of winning the game on his own.
This is incredibly harsh on BJK as he did very well the last day. I think it may be what we have to go with though. If Fitz comes up with an alternative where BJK starts and we still win, I'll be fine with that. Sometimes tough calls have to be made, like Enright getting dropped for the final last year.
Given no.2 then your options at 11 are Buckley or Sheehan.
On no.3, Paddy Kelly is very likely to start. Fitz has to decide who is best suited to picking him up AND the half forward line and midfield need to apply more pressure on him. Too often the last day he was able to turn and pick out passes at will. I think Murphy will come in, but for who I'm not sure. I would be revving Fionn Fitz up telling him he was destroyed by a 34 year old the last day and hoping he responds in kind the next day. Means Crowley or Lyne could lose out. Don't think you can start with a half back line of Lyne, Murphy, Young which would be way too lightweight, therefore logic dictates Murphy would come in for Lyne.
No.4 is a tough one. I'm not 100% sure of what to do. Buckley did ok and has more in him. Problem is, would you get away with him on the wing with Sheehan at 11 and Donnacha on Barry o'Driscoll? I don't honestly know. I would like if you could as it keeps Sheehan on the field and would allow Maher and Moran to start at midfield. Maher is not a good man to come into a game, better off starting him. Moran was going well up to the black card so hopefully he can push on again.

I've no doubt Fitzmaurice won't change the keeper either but I much prefer Kelly. Kealy kicked away (or scuffed) 4 or 5 kickouts when we were on the back foot on Sunday and was very poor for Donnacha's goal. Any keeper at the highest level should be either quick enough to realise what Donnacha was going to do and backpeddle to cover it OR (more likely) anticipate it in the first place and go through man, ball, referee or whatever else is in the way and not allow the forward to waltz away out the field celebrating.

Fitzy may be thinking on total different lines or some of these thoughts may prove off the mark, but just going on what I see in front of me.

Possible team:
1.Kealy
2.Fionn
3.Marc
4.Enright
5.Murphy
6.Crowley
7.Young
8.Moran
9.Maher
10.Donnacha
11.Sheehan
12.Buckley
13.Jameso
14.Donaghy
15.Geaney

keane2097

Did Geaney cause havoc when he came on?

He got one great point and then got very lucky to get a goal chance out of a shot he made a total balls of. Lest we forget he actually missed the goal chance.

I was more interested in Gooch and Darran contributions when I was watching it back and didn't take any notice of other influences he had - I guess I missed one or two?

I'm not convinced by proposition 1 personally though I'm obviously biased. Geaney is very good but Barry John has been excellent in two games to date.

Geaney has a lot of excellent attributes but has he really proved he's player that MUST start?

Barry John is probably a player who you can guarantee an impact from off the bench which is a fair consideration also.

Poor_old_gill

keane2097 wrote: »

Did Geaney cause havoc when he came on?

He got one great point and then got very lucky to get a goal chance out of a shot he made a total balls of. Lest we forget he actually missed the goal chance.

I was more interested in Gooch and Darran contributions when I was watching it back and didn't take any notice of other influences he had - I guess I missed one or two?

I'm not convinced by proposition 1 personally though I'm obviously biased. Geaney is very good but Barry John has been excellent in two games to date.

Geaney has a lot of excellent attributes but has he really proved he's player that MUST start?

Barry John is probably a player who you can guarantee an impact from off the bench which is a fair consideration also.

Gooch and Darren did little or nothing when they came on so i agree with you on their limited contributions.

BJK has been good but his way of playing marks him out as real impact sub material (which is great in some ways for Kerry and less so for him in others).

As a player- he can drift in and out of games and plays very much in bursts which can mean that if you have a motivated BJK coming on for the last 20 then you are in a good place but he can drift out of games when on for 70 mins.

I do take and agree with you earlier point that none of the full forward line have done anything to be dropped and to do so would be harsh.

The full forward line I picked would be my own personal preference but I do agree that they were starved of ball (all 3 of them) and were very economical with the scraps that they got on Sunday.

The full forward line wasnt the issue (which is another point we agree on)- the half forward line was a big problem as was the half back line.

Midfield was middling (no pun intended, etc) to fair so changes in other areas are very much a priority over the FF- Fitz has a lot of decisions to make in the next few weeks but my preference is to have BJK coming on when for the last 20 when the game is a bit more broken as his direct running at tired legs is probably most potent then.

davegrohl48

If you want statistical analysis of the game go to the Dont foul blog. Now that he includes pictures as well he has added some interesting other elements. Bomber quoting Kerrys best 15 minutes as some template for the rest of the game!! That is game analysis madness. You never take a sides best 15 minutes as indicative of how they could have done in the 70, games ebb and flow too much. A fluke goal and a handy free and you suddenly have 4 pts on the board for little tactical effort.
Ciarrai why all the changes and focus on the full forward line. I simply thought not enough came out of the Kerry half forward line. Too workman like and no elite pace over 10 yards.
Your half backline I assume Murphy is used to bring ball out. He is a good bit smaller than Lyne who is a sizeable defender. I see Murphy as a weakness as he will eventually end up yellow/blacked versus Cork with their strong runners. He hasn't the size to stop strong runners.
I don't think Kerry need to change that much.
- Add some speed at half forward to start
- Bring on subs at half forward for fresh legs
- Spring Geaney and Cooper again.
- Leave Sheehan on for frees
- Tighten up the defence by preventing runs in behind
- No forward is to allow what happened with Michael Shields being waved through. Cooper should have tackled him and decided not to. Maybe he is under instruction not to get into heavy contact. Could be case.
If Kerry can tighten a bit at the back and prevent the overrun that happened in the middle third they can win. If not it's Cork's I'd say.

JFlah

Massive well done to the Kerry Ladies Senior team on their victory over Cork.They have a massive effort put in and unfortunately it is often overlooked. Continuous player development programs from a young age upwards are beginning to pay off.

Kerrydude1981

If one team deserves to win an all Ireland then its the current Kerry ladies team,a lot of them have been great servants to the county and an Ireland medal would be hugely deserved

Hopefully this year we will see them in Croke Park once again.

ShamoBuc

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

If one team deserves to win an all Ireland then its the current Kerry ladies team,a lot of them have been great servants to the county and an Ireland medal would be hugely deserved

Hopefully this year we will see them in Croke Park once again.

I'm a big fan of ladies gaa and I would agree with you, they are a fine team but beating Cork once, while it brings them a step closer and will certainly fill them with confidence, there are a few other teams that will be looking to turn them over. It sets up the season well I think.

homerjay2005

so am i right in saying out path to the 1/4 final is now clear?

we beat Cork, we are into the 1/4.

we lose to Cork, we play Kildare to get into the 1/4...is that correct?

after that, is the 1/4 line up already clear also?

SillyBeans

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so am i right in saying out path to the 1/4 final is now clear?

we beat Cork, we are into the 1/4.

we lose to Cork, we play Kildare to get into the 1/4...is that correct?

after that, is the 1/4 line up already clear also?

Yeah it's Munster v Ulster and Leinster v Connacht for the semis. So either the winners of those provinces or the team that beat them in the quarters as far as I'm aware. They're played either the 23rd or 30th of August.

Fr Tod Umptious

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so am i right in saying out path to the 1/4 final is now clear?

we beat Cork, we are into the 1/4.

we lose to Cork, we play Kildare to get into the 1/4...is that correct?

after that, is the 1/4 line up already clear also?

If you lose to Cork and beat Kildare you play Dublin in the QF.

SillyBeans

Sorry yeah, totally misread your question homerjay. If Kerry win against Cork though do they play the winner of Westmeath/Fermanagh or potentially Kildare if they were to beat Cork? Not sure if there's a typo on the GAA fixtures page.

Hulk Hands

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so am i right in saying out path to the 1/4 final is now clear?

we beat Cork, we are into the 1/4.

we lose to Cork, we play Kildare to get into the 1/4...is that correct?

after that, is the 1/4 line up already clear also?

You beat Cork you basically have a bye into the AI semi, be 1/50 to get by Fermanagh or Westmeath. Also avoid Dublin that way until the final. Worst team ye can meet in semi is Donegal too, and could easily be easier than that (Monaghan, Derry, Galway etc). Massive incentive for both teams next Saturday

Gbeaso

Gbeaso wrote: »

I'm working in London for a few weeks so I'm going to miss the replay. Can anyone reccomend a good bar in the city to watch it? I'm staying near Tower of London but willing to travel for a good bar. This is all assuming it's going to be on tv of course!

Ladies and gents, any advice re my request above!?

D'Agger

Gbeaso wrote: »

Ladies and gents, any advice re my request above!?

Don't know any myself but I'd suggest checking facebook or twitter pages of nearby pubs - they'll be sure to mention what's showing during the day

duchalla

Gbeaso wrote: »

Ladies and gents, any advice re my request above!?

The Kingdom Bar in Kilburn, McGoverns and The Crown in Cricklewood will definitely be showing the match I'd say.

ciarriaithuaidh

Gbeaso wrote: »

Ladies and gents, any advice re my request above!?

I watched quite a few games in The Temple Bar, near Temple tube station. That was around 5 years ago now but they always showed Irish rugby games and GAA games. That may have changed of course, but look them up and give them a try. 3 stops from Tower hill on district line or short hop in a cab.

If stuck, follow the advice above and head for somewhere northwest where it's easy find GAA on TV. The Kingdom on Kilburn High Road is basically a little piece of Kerry in the middle of London, but places like Brogans in Fulham, The Tipperary in Fleet Street and others are all possible options close enough to the city.

Gbeaso

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

I watched quite a few games in The Temple Bar, near Temple tube station. That was around 5 years ago now but they always showed Irish rugby games and GAA games. That may have changed of course, but look them up and give them a try. 3 stops from Tower hill on district line or short hop in a cab.

If stuck, follow the advice above and head for somewhere northwest where it's easy find GAA on TV. The Kingdom on Kilburn High Road is basically a little piece of Kerry in the middle of London, but places like Brogans in Fulham, The Tipperary in Fleet Street and others are all possible options close enough to the city.

Thanks for that advice. Would love to hit the kingdom but tight for time after. I'll prob end up in the temple bar. Thanks again

JB81

Rumours are Gooch not starting on Saturday. Paul Geaney in for Keane.
Mahoney in the half back line in place of Lyne. And Maher midfield with sheehan in half forward instead of o'brien.

homerjay2005

JB81 wrote: »

Rumours are Gooch not starting on Saturday. Paul Geaney in for Keane.
Mahoney in the half back line in place of Lyne. And Maher midfield with sheehan in half forward instead of o'brien.

heard that also.
and Galvin back in the 26.

i heard that its another member of the half back line dropped also and Murphy is back in?

thesultan

JB81 wrote: »

Rumours are Gooch not starting on Saturday. Paul Geaney in for Keane.
Mahoney in the half back line in place of Lyne. And Maher midfield with sheehan in half forward instead of o'brien.

lyne was one of the better half backs as was Barry John Keane in the forwards.

homerjay2005

thesultan wrote: »

lyne was one of the better half backs as was Barry John Keane in the forwards.

looking for impact off the bench???

for instance i would rather be bringing on those 2 as opposed to Geaney or Sheehan.