Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

DDC1990

D'Agger wrote: »

Surprised to see Sheehan given a higher rating than Moran. The argument that he came into it more when Kerry got on top is moot seeing as, from what I saw, Moran was largely responsible for us getting on top.

Fielded well, when he didn't he scrapped and won a turnover by getting a boot in whilst on the ground, and as mentioned, we got hammered at MF when we lost him. I really think on his day he's the best midfielder in the country, that said, I've always been a fan & I'm just happy to see him playing to his potential after a bad spell of injuries.

In terms of all round play I think they contributed the same amount. The fact that Sheehan scored some vital points and didn't get a Black Card when we needed calm heads gives him a higher rating for me.

D'Agger

DDC1990 wrote: »

In terms of all round play I think they contributed the same amount. The fact that Sheehan scored some vital points and didn't get a Black Card when we needed calm heads gives him a higher rating for me.

Yeah that score Sheehan got from the sideline was a real ship-steadier, fantastic point

jimmytwotimes 2013

D'Agger wrote: »

Yeah that score Sheehan got from the sideline was a real ship-steadier, fantastic point

Wud agree but thought morans card was harsh enuf, cudnt criticise Moran too much.

Kerrydude1981

Some good stuff from the lads

http://traleetoday.ie/audio-another-classic-exchange-from-weeshie-and-gary-yesterday/

Gbeaso

I'm working in London for a few weeks so I'm going to miss the replay. Can anyone reccomend a good bar in the city to watch it? I'm staying near Tower of London but willing to travel for a good bar. This is all assuming it's going to be on tv of course!

Wang King

Gbeaso wrote: »

I'm working in London for a few weeks so I'm going to miss the replay. Can anyone reccomend a good bar in the city to watch it? I'm staying near Tower of London but willing to travel for a good bar. This is all assuming it's going to be on tv of course!

Every chance it won't be televised at the moment

toodleytoo

Gbeaso wrote: »

I'm working in London for a few weeks so I'm going to miss the replay. Can anyone reccomend a good bar in the city to watch it? I'm staying near Tower of London but willing to travel for a good bar. This is all assuming it's going to be on tv of course!

Sky has the right to air it but as far as I know they're showing a qualifier match so I don't think it will even be televised.

munchkin_utd

toodleytoo wrote: »

Sky has the right to air it but as far as I know they're showing a qualifier match so I don't think it will even be televised.

if its the same as last year, the broadcaster who originally had the rights to the drawn game has the rights to the replay - so Sky has not the rights to the Munster final

Fear Ciarrai

toodleytoo wrote:

Sky has the right to air it but as far as I know they're showing a qualifier match so I don't think it will even be televised.

Incorrect. RTE have the rights but Sky are showing another game at 7pm. Sky and RTE cant show games at the same time

Kerrydude1981

Wont be many handing back stand tickets this time round

toodleytoo

Fear Ciarrai wrote: »

Incorrect. RTE have the rights but Sky are showing another game at 7pm. Sky and RTE cant show games at the same time

Fair enough!

Wang King

In order for RTE to show the replay, Sky must reach agreement with the teams involved in the qualifier game to bring the throw in time to 5.
Seems unlikely at the moment

Radio5

Wang King wrote: »

In order for RTE to show the replay, Sky must reach agreement with the teams involved in the qualifier game to bring the throw in time to 5.
Seems unlikely at the moment

Who are the teams involved or are they known yet or does it depend on games this coming weekend?

Fr Tod Umptious

Radio5 wrote: »

Who are the teams involved or are they known yet or does it depend on games this coming weekend?

They will be round 3 B qualifiers

So come combination of the winners of
Armagh v Galway
Tyrone v Meath
Derry v Wexford
Tipp v Louth

Draw will be made Monday morning at 8.30am.

Fr Tod Umptious

As it turns out RTE will now be showing it live.

ciarriaithuaidh

It's Wednesday afternoon and I'm still not recovered from the weekend..old age creeping.

Anyway, watched the game back twice now. Once casually, then second time analytically. Could still do with watching it back again but a few thoughts.

Firstly, never ceased to be amazed that a game can change on review so much. Thought Moran was iffy on Sunday in the stadium..having watched it back, he absolutely lorded midfield until his black card. He fielded 3 times over O'Connor up to that point, stripped O'Connor of one ball aswell, got on loads of ball and was by far the best midfielder. He did have one awful effort at a point but he played a lot of good passes aswell. Alan O'Connor (AOC hereafter) got MOM, but was fairly anonymous up to the 46th minute! Gave one good kick pass leading to Donnacha O'Connor (DOC) providing O'Neill's goal, but that was it..for 46 minutes!! Even therafter, he caught one ball maybe and broke 2 or 3 balls in midfield, but on review it was nothing amazing at all.
Maher was very iffy when he came on. 1 terrible handpass over the line (meant for Fionn), was in front of AOC for a medium length kickout and didn't attack the ball resulting in a turnover, very nearly gave away the ball in build up to last play of the game aswell. He also literally stood and watched DOC stroll past him through the middle in the 45th minute or thereabouts, which allowed an O'Neill point from play ultimately. Total lack of awareness and urgency.
He DID give a great ball to Geaney for his point, but he needs to up it big time IF he starts.

I thought (like many) that Kerry were taking over completely at the end of the 1st half and James and BJK were moving very well and scoring for fun at that stage. BJK got one super score where he beat 3 men and fisted over. Apart from 1 ball where Cronin got in and kncoked it away from him I thought he did very well and was a bit disappointed to see him subbed BUT I wouldn't disagree with getting Geaney on the field either.

Geaney by the way HAS to start the next day. 60% fit or whatever, I don't care! The man is a top player..had Shields bate up a stick when he came on. Bit unlucky with the goal attempt (I wonder would Hughes have given THAT as a penalty if he went down? It was way more of a foul than the earlier one!) but O'Halloran did well to get a finger on it. Have to laugh at Cork talking about Kerry cyncicism when Shields literally pinned Geaney to the ground for 2 minutes on terrace side near the end..of course, the standard GAA "2 yellows" was given. :rolleyes:

I thought of a certain poster here when Kerry switched Enright over onto O'Neill for the last 20 minutes..("Marc had to bail Enright out last year"..I believe was the quote?)..well it was the reverse for certain on Sunday. Enright is never going to be a silky footballer like Marc, but he is a fair old operator at shutting players down. With his half back line all destroyed and acres of space in front of him, he kept Hurley scoreless for 50 minutes and Colm O'Neill scoreless for the last 20 in a Munster final...I don't give a sh*t what anyone says, that is just top class corner back play. Had 1 very soft free given against him I think so it's not as if he was fouling either.

Marc in fairness was brilliant in the first half, just got caught for the goal, but there was way too much space given. (The half back line were all poor defensively. Collins, DOC, Barry O'Driscoll, Paddy Kelly all got too much ball, in too much space with no pressure on them.) He started to wilt a little possibly in third quarter. Bought a dummy onto his left too easily for O'Neills point in 44th minute. Kept going well enough right up to end though and was pivotal in last play.

Have to say, fair play to Cork. Didn't think the likes of Barry O'Driscoll, Kevin O'Driscoll would ever operate at that level. Cronin did ok for a 19 year old but his performance is being exaggerated by Cork people a bit also.
I think without being too biased there is still a lot to look at in the tape from a Kerry perspective to be positive about. Were well on top from 10th minute to 36th. Horror show from 36th minute to 45th or so, conceding 1-5 (1-3 from play I think).
Being honest of course, the penalty was harsh. Hughes is a bad ref and his command of the situation (unsure body language etc) looked awful...BUT from the outside angle he had, you see Collins pull James leg when they are going down and it could look to him like it has been a drag down then.
In reality of course, Collins had eyes only for the ball and probably regrets just not flicking it out of danger..it was really only his momentum that carried him into James and it was a soft, soft penalty.
Kerry probably needed the penalty at that stage, but when they went 2-14 to 2-12 up I thought it was over.

Here though, I have to criticise Fitzmaurice and his team. You just CANNOT defend a 2 point lead in Gaelic Football by packing the defence..not for 10 minutes like they tried to do anyway. Inexplicably, Kerry retreated completely and let Cork come at them. Even when Cork got the goal Kerry (like Donegal did stupidly last year in AI Final) were sitting back defending their 45, WHEN DOWN BY A POINT IN THE LAST MINUTE!! Stupidity! You just have to push up and players themselves should realise this and be screaming at each other to do so.

Another criticism, Sheehan to me, looked to be ok before being withdrawn..put him at 11 if needs be, but he looked able for another 10. Taking off a guy capable of slotting 60 yard kicks in a tight game? Bad call Eamonn.

I wouldn't have him on the field in an ideal world, but surely if you ARE going to have Mikey Geaney in the squad, why would you not put him on to just literally mark Barry O'Driscoll on Sunday? He gets played in games where there are better options and then left off completely when it appears you could do with him? Baffling to be honest.

Sherwood, again, appears out of nowhere to play in a pivotal position in a top, top pressure game. Now, I'm not privy to training, but if Sherwood is even playing midfield in training games with Maher, Moran, Sheehan, Buckley, Donaghy in the squad I'd be surprised..yet we end up with him midfield with the game in the balance in Killarney? Seems nuts. He did ok for Maher's point, made a good burst, but was defended poorly by Deane. He then made 2 almost fatal unpressurised mistakes. Passed a ball over someone's head (which Darran compounded by trying a chip up when under sever pressure.:rolleyes: )and then he dropped a kickout that came right down his throat with nobody near him. That went on to lead to O'Neills free on the stand side, which could have killed the game for Cork.
As Keane would say, it's a small sample size to judge a guy by, but I've seen Sherwood a lot and I think he's a decent player, but not at this level. Maybe Sheehan was injured and we literally had no other option, but it didn't appear that way to me.

I could write essays (probably have done so here!), so better keep it to that for now. Looking forward to Saturday week when there will be a confident Cork crowd coming to Killarney..nothing gets a Kerry man going better than that..I hope!

keane2097

Any possibility that they sat back when two points up because they were spent?

ciarriaithuaidh

keane2097 wrote: »

Any possibility that they sat back when two points up because they were spent?

I don't think so bud.

Enright, Fionn, Lyne, Paul Murphy, Young, Sherwood, Maher, Darran, Gooch were all on the field and looked pretty fresh on 60 minutes and thereafter..so no excuse for the mass retreat UNLESS it was seen as preparation for down the line, which to be honest even worries me more as defending like that against Dublin with a 2 point lead is suicidal and even Donegal last year got some joy when we sat back. So no real reason for it IMO.

davegrohl48

Good analysis Ciarrai. I also believe you need to rewatch games to really know how the game was impacted. Similar to the league game I just got ever such an essence of Fitzmaurice over-thinking his way to some strange decisions.
- Sheehan was taken off in the league.
Has Fitzmaurice done any analysis of the differential between a less mobile Sheehans workrate and his ability to slot 60 yard kicks? At the time of the league match I thought it strange he is not accomodated late in games by moving him up high and wide. He is such an inteligent footballer he can't be left isolated by his man.
- The Sherwood to midfield move!!!
He did well on the first ball he was on. This just looked like a 3 in the morning eureka moment of tactical insight that I dunno. Sherwood midfield I don't understand
- The lack of outright speed in the Kerry middle eight.
This was highlighted in the league. Look at the Kerry half forward line that started. All workhorses without speed over 10 yards. It was no surprise that Cork were eventually able to dominate the on the ground contest. They did exactly the same in the league.
I believe Cork can win the replay. The key thing for me is that they have superior speed in the middle eight. They need to put Cadogan on the ball as much as possible.

DDC1990

What would people's feelings be on playing a sweeper in the replay?

What about Gooch at Corner Forward and James further out the field?

Who comes in and who drops out?

1. Kealy
2. Murphy
3. Marc
4. Enright
5. O'Mahoney (sweeper)
6. Crowley
7. Young
8. Maher
9. Moran
10. Lyne (Dropping back to wing back)
11. Sheehan
12. D. Walsh
13. Gooch
14. Donaghy
15. James (drifting in and out)

Would that be too negative? I still think Donaghy and Gooch could cause trouble inside off limited ball.
Mahoney might be too slow for the role, i'd have him in, but he's very clever, would be great at reading the game from behind the half back line, and would hit anything that broke through.

I'm trying to work out how to shore up the Full Back line, who were extremely exposed. Obviously the best thing would be to actually win the middle 3rd and clean up under the breaking ball but that's easier said than done.

If we go without a sweeper, I'd definitely have both Mikey Geaney and Donnacha Walsh as half forwards. We need a greater workrate then we got out of O'Brien and Buckley I feel, though Buckley wasn't terrible having reviewed the game.

Maher and Cooper would be lucky to start based on their performance on Sunday, but I feel like Maher is a guy that you need to start. He doesn't make such a big impact as a sub, but is dominant when starting. Cooper likewise isn't a guy that's going to win a big ball for you, but he's a top class footballer, that can create a chance out of nothing. You have to get him on the field. I think if he's in the half forward line Cork can run him up and down the field. Himself and Donaghy have always worked well together, so having them inside working together might work.

keane2097

The problem there DDC is that you're attempting to counter Cork's deadliest weapon by playing an even slower team.

If Gooch only managed to touch the ball three times in half an hour on the 40 how much ball is he going to get in the full forward line?

DDC1990

keane2097 wrote: »

The problem there DDC is that you're attempting to counter Cork's deadliest weapon by playing an even slower team.

If Gooch only managed to touch the ball three times in half an hour on the 40 how much ball is he going to get in the full forward line?

The thing is it's more about getting bodies back in defensive positions rather then trying to run with Cork. That didn't work last weekend.

Would you go with O'Brien again? We're short enough on pure pace.

I think Gooch would pick up breaks off Donaghy much better then BJK or James managed (not that it seemed like that it was the tactic). Gooch in the Corner would keep him where he is dangerous, around the goals. Get James in space, run at Cork and lay it off to Gooch.

I don't know really just throwing a few ideas out there.

ciarriaithuaidh

DDC1990 wrote: »

The thing is it's more about getting bodies back in defensive positions rather then trying to run with Cork. That didn't work last weekend.

Would you go with O'Brien again? We're short enough on pure pace.

I think Gooch would pick up breaks off Donaghy much better then BJK or James managed (not that it seemed like that it was the tactic). Gooch in the Corner would keep him where he is dangerous, around the goals. Get James in space, run at Cork and lay it off to Gooch.

I don't know really just throwing a few ideas out there.

Geaney well ahead of Gooch at championship level at this point in time. That was surely evident on Sunday. Gooch will come on possibly but it would be mad to start him really.

There's going to have to be a curveball thrown in the selection anyway. Maher doesn't really deserve it, but Maher-Moran-Sheehan in a midfield triangle might just be an option. Donnacha Walsh on Barry O'Driscoll this time.
Who marks Paddy Kelly and Collins is AS big a problem though. Those 2 setup every single Cork attack Sunday.

D'Agger

I'd have BJK into the half forward line with Geaney going into the full & O'Brien losing out

seligehgit

Any chance captain Donaghy will be dropped??He was very influential but only received a very limited supply of decent ball.Other than it was relatively comfortable for Cadogan who I believe would struggle on a pacier forward.

Kerry's period on top coincided with time when they transferred the ball through hand rather than the relatively poor diagonal balls that Kieran Donaghy was forced to compete for.James O Donoghue did not appear to play off him as much as last year,it was an incredibly effective ploy last year.Having said that he was influential when he went looking for his own ball and given the opportunity.

keane2097

I think dropping any of the full forward line would be harsh. As a unit they were very efficient score-wise for the amount of decent ball they got.

Kerrydude1981

Starting Geaney would give the Cork backs something else to think about,he is a goal threat and decent in the air as well and would be another option if Donaghy is been double marked.

D'Agger

keane2097 wrote: »

I think dropping any of the full forward line would be harsh. As a unit they were very efficient score-wise for the amount of decent ball they got.

How'd you feel about Barry John in the half forward line? Not as effective but still well able to contribute scores as well as put in a hard slog around the middle on breaks etc.

Poor_old_gill

If there is to be a change to the full forward line then I would imagine that BJK is the most vulnerable but then again its very hard to know what we are going to do in terms of shape.

Do you leave Donaghy inside, do you have 2 men inside, do you bring JOD out the field? There are so many factors at play that its hard to tell.

I would probably start Geaney ahead of BJK in the FF line and have 2 men inside (Donaghy and Geaney) with JOD sitting a bit deeper (around 35 yards from goal and looking to get on the ball/make runs for ball off the 2 men inside.

The make up of the half forward line is a different issue and to be honest- I have no idea what to do there.

The most essential thing is that we pick a half back line and midfield that will allow us to play on the front foot.

davegrohl48

How I see the effective roles of the Kerry attacking options including some subs.
- Paul Geaney can cover inside and half forward. Effective in both.
- Donaghy - Leave him as the provider at full forward. Seasonally dangerous there.
- BJK - Inside line only. First instinct to put his head down.
- Bryan Sheehan. Start midfield and eventually move up wide on the wing where his marker is dragged away from the Cork counter attack. Sheehan is too good a passer to be left unmarked. Sheehan rarely makes a bad pass and can handpass a ball accurately 30 yards.
- Cooper - Keep him out of footraces in 1 v 1. Bring him on wide away from the crowd. His role is to ping in those incredible 40 yard kicks on Donaghy and take an odd score
- Buckley/Donnacha Walsh - Think Buckley should come on when Walsh tires
- Tommy Walsh - As many noted he can't run anymore. Full forward line option off bench only. Late in games Donaghy, Walsh, Sheehan, Paul Geaney is a lot of height and hands to contain for tired defences.
- Darren OSullivan. Should never be near the middle of the pitch. Much more effective as a strike runner between half forward and full forward. Use him off the bench to create scoreable frees, goal chances and penalties taking ball from Donaghy and others.
- James ODonoghue should be used as a strike runner. Very hard to contain. With Darren OSullivan coming on that is some incredible pace and drive available.