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E2.50 pints should be outlawed, says FG TD

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    #92
    Cathy.C
    Closed Accounts Posts: 637 ✭✭✭Cathy.C


    zerks wrote: »
    the ones that the government seem so worried about either drink at home or frequent park benches in virtually every town in Ireland.You won't see them darken the door of a Wetherspoons or any other pub for that matter.

    Well, in fairness one section of society which the Government say these measures are being brought in order to protect are teenagers and they most certainly will go where the drink is the cheapest.

    Just a few weeks back for example, I witnessed the largest queue outside a pub that I had ever seen in Dublin. Was on Harcourt St on Tuesday or Wednesday night, it was seven or eight deep and ran down as far as Stephen's Green and even around the corner almost as far as Wexford St. You'd swear a concert was taking place but turned out that Dicey Reillys had arranged a night of drinks for just €2, no doubt advertised on Facebook.

    Not saying there is anything wrong with that, in fact I am in favour of it to a certain degree as those kids would have just have drank in their friend's homes, or on the bus in, or (as I see happening a lot these days) necking back spirits in the queues around midnight for the nightclub which I suspect they might not even buy a single drink in.

    It's not an easy call though, as it's quite sinister to target teens with these cheap drink promotions, or such as the the offer of free shots which almost all young folk get these days from the shiny jacket arm stamping numpties that roam the Fleet St area but they will source cheap drinks some way and so perhaps it's best they do so in the warmth of a club than on the streets.


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    #93
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,164 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Cienciano wrote: »
    The vintners were against McDowells cafe bar idea. Completely shot down. They were also against the smoking ban and were against any drop in the drink driving limit :rolleyes:
    It's no wonder people don't like them.

    You know it's funny, a few times over the years a thread on AH would pop up about what you want in a pub. some of the most common things are no tv, better selection of beer and lower prices. It's almost like the most successful chain of pubs in the UK are actually giving the people what they want instead of what the LVA do and tell us what we should want.

    The local where I work in Blanch was a niceish pub. Good for a pint with a mate on the way home. Then it opened an off license. Then it started putting TV's everywhere. The TV's had near constant gambling information on them. Now it's opened a betting shop onsite as well. Pretty soon it'll probably pop in a few slot machines.
    The food has gotten worse. Cheap much slathered in hot sauce. They also increased the prices.

    It's obvious that they are just milking as much as they can from punters. The problem is that there's very few pubs there. It's still one of the "better" ones.


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    #94
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,486 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Cienciano wrote: »
    Seems the pub lobby is too powerful for anyone to criticise.

    I doubt many pubs would object to later opening hours or, in particular, not having to pay extra for a late licence or get a special exemption. Many pubs will still do a lock in so would be only too happy if they could stay late whenever they wanted without extra cost or an advance application to court.


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    #95
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,620 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    Im surprised SF arent all over this in opposition. A law which was originally brought in by the British to stop munitions workers getting too drunk to make the shells in the morning. Great way to stir anti FG sentiment by comparing them to the old enemy and trying to make good little workers of us rather than genuinely caring about our health

    Whatever about the FG-Shinner angle I'm just surprised no opposition TD ever comes out to challenge the publicans when other TDs like Mitchell-O'Connor comes out with statements like this which reveal her to clearly be in the pockets of the Vintners. Like it would be riduculously easy for an opposition TD to get on the radio waves tomorrow morning and argue sensibly that-

    -According to pffical stats Irish people are now drinking 12% less than they were in 2002
    -Irish drink prices are amongst the highest in the EU and Irish exise duties are in that zone too, with a bottle of wine costing double here what it does in most EU nations
    -Binge drinking is a cultural problem which cannot be solved by price alone, investment in awareness and education is the way to solve it
    -Weathspoons are not selling at below cost, they are here to make a profit and if they can make a profit at €2.50 then it is clear other publicans are making massive profits at €4.00 a pint, up to €6 in the city center

    And that old chestnut of Fine Gael 'Jobs, jobs.jobs'

    -Mary Mitchell O'Connor and her statement is putting in jeopardy the hundreds of jobs that Weatherspoons are bringing to Ireland in a time of high unemployment. Weatherspoons have committed to opening 50 pub across Ireland and intend to employ more than 1,000 people. Yet here we have a member of Fine Gael making announcements that put those jobs in jeopardy.

    That's all an opposition TD has to do in the morning and people will wake up a bit and see this Mary Mitchell O'Connor statement for what it is, a ruse on behalf of the publicans. But will it happen? I won't be holding my breath :rolleyes:


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    #96
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,416 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    The VFI didn't seem that bothered about peoples health when their car parks were full of people driving home, people got sick of paying way over what they should and changed to buying at the supermarket and having a few drinks with friends at home and Mr Greedy Publician doesn't like that.

    People of Dublin vote this busybody out in 2016, not one of our brighter exports from Galway :(


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    #97
    PLL
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭PLL


    Much like the Wetherspoons in England, I'd say the cheap prices will attract a cheap crowd too.
    When the one opens in Cork it will be a rough spot. Nothing against the people of Cork, I love the place, but their strict entry policy is there for a reason.

    After living in England I wouldn't set foot in one of these pubs, not even for cheap prices. I hope they do force prices here to reduce slightly as they are ridiculous, but I would still rather pay a bit more and socialise in a friendly Irish pub than a generic franchise.


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    #98
    Highflyer13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Highflyer13


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Whatever about the FG-Shinner angle I'm just surprised no opposition TD ever comes out to challenge the publicans when other TDs like Mitchell-O'Connor comes out with statements like this which reveal her to clearly be in the pockets of the Vintners. Like it would be riduculously easy for an opposition TD to get on the radio waves tomorrow morning and argue sensibly that-

    -According to pffical stats Irish people are now drinking 12% less than they were in 2002
    -Irish drink prices are amongst the highest in the EU and Irish exise duties are in that zone too, with a bottle of wine costing double here what it does in most EU nations
    -Binge drinking is a cultural problem which cannot be solved by price alone, investment in awareness and education is the way to solve it
    -Weathspoons are not selling at below cost, they are here to make a profit and if they can make a profit at €2.50 then it is clear other publicans are making massive profits at €4.00 a pint, up to €6 in the city center

    And that old chestnut of Fine Gael 'Jobs, jobs.jobs'

    -Mary Mitchell O'Connor and her statement is putting in jeopardy the hundreds of jobs that Weatherspoons are bringing to Ireland in a time of high unemployment. Weatherspoons have committed to opening 50 pub across Ireland and intend to employ more than 1,000 people. Yet here we have a member of Fine Gael making announcements that put those jobs in jeopardy.

    That's all an opposition TD has to do in the morning and people will wake up a bit and see this Mary Mitchell O'Connor statement for what it is, a ruse on behalf of the publicans. But will it happen? I won't be holding my breath :rolleyes:

    People are seeing right through this government. They are all about protecting their friends and letting wider society suffer apart from the odd token effort in the media here and there. FG are doomed imo and rightly so.


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    #99
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Citing the refusal of brewing giant Heineken to allow Wetherspoon to sell pints of its lager for less than €3 here, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor said this "welcome move accurately and strongly illustrates how below-cost selling is neither successful nor beneficial to the business community".

    I am not sure I would be taking business advice from you deputy Mitchell, spoons operate over 950 pubs in the uk and Ireland... I am not saying they are selling below cost, but I wouldnt trust her to run a corner shop!

    She will be delighted to hear that the weatherspoons are selling pints in Dun Laoghaire from €1.95 tomorrow... I was out there a few days ago, they had three bouncers and it was very civilised, no roaring, you dont need to as there is no music blaring or endless sport most dont have an interest in to shout over!
    Binge drinking is defined by 3-4 pints in one sitting. Clearly €5 pints doesn't stop that. €5 pints is so expensive though, but I pay it when I go out at the weekend in Dublin as the places I like unfortunately charge it. As a result of this however, you wouldn't find me in a pub between Monday - Thursday for casual drink as it is too much to pay for a casual midweek drink. If I knew a pub had €3 pints I would actually head in to relax and break up the week with a friend or a few friends. Instead I would have a couple of bottles of beer 1-2 of the midweek nights at home. My point on this pub-pricing is that it does barely anything to influence how much I drink.
    yeah that is the exact same situation as me and most of my mates. Even the guys who dont drink much were out in spoons the other day and if anything they would now be more likely to go out for a few as you are not being and robbed and can actually chat...

    You know when spoons opened here in Blackrock and I saw their drink prices for the first time here on boards, I said those prices are not cheap enough to drive people into the place, a few weeks or months later they dropped prices significantly to get people in the door in numbers. They are here a wet week, how have the VFI and publicans not worked that out after several decades?


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    #100
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,255 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    I doubt many pubs would object to later opening hours or, in particular, not having to pay extra for a late licence or get a special exemption. Many pubs will still do a lock in so would be only too happy if they could stay late whenever they wanted without extra cost or an advance application to court.

    You're wrong there, the main thing the publicans care about is the publics health :pac:

    The opening hours are some sort of joke. Saw a woman in Aldi buying sunday dinner which included a bottle of wine. They couldn't sell it to her because it was 12:15 pm, she had to wait 15 minutes.


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    #101
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    PLL wrote: »
    Much like the Wetherspoons in England, I'd say the cheap prices will attract a cheap crowd too.
    When the one opens in Cork it will be a rough spot. Nothing against the people of Cork, I love the place, but their strict entry policy is there for a reason.

    After living in England I wouldn't set foot in one of these pubs, not even for cheap prices. I hope they do force prices here to reduce slightly as they are ridiculous, but I would still rather pay a bit more and socialise in a friendly Irish pub than a generic franchise.

    I was in the blackrock Weatherspoons last night, very nice crowd of all ages and a great atmosphere. No music and no TV and a great selection of beers.
    Much much better than my local pub which seems to smell of bacon and cabbage all the time and charges €5+ for a pint.

    I would not knock the Irish Weatherspoons until you have actually tried one...its a bit small minded IMO.


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    #102
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    2nd most expensive alcohol price in the EU.

    Mid range in consumption dropping year on year.

    binge.... Why not actually treat people like adults. Countries that have 24 hour drinking don't seem to have the same problems with everyone hammered looking for a taxi home at the same time. Are we supposed to believe the late opening times and early closing times in the off-licence effects anyone but the normal consumer. If I am an alcho I will stock up wont I....


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    #103
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    PLL wrote: »
    ....... but I would still rather pay a bit more and socialise in a friendly Irish pub than a generic franchise.

    thats a "generic franchise" as you put it by itself

    http://www.irishpubcompany.com/country.htm

    as you sit there sipping Guinness ( brought to you by Diageo )

    not sure who supplies the bacon and cabbage air freshners but that and the overcharging are an essential part of the experience
    Trigger Happy wrote: »
    ........local pub which seems to smell of bacon and cabbage all the time and charges €5+ for a pint.
    .......

    .


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    #104
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    FG really seem to be going out of their way to give me reasons to not vote for them.
    Hope her constituents give her the boot when the next election comes around.


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    #105
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    How many TD's have pubs or are involved in family pubs btw. Smacks of vested interests.


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    #106
    Highflyer13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Highflyer13


    Its a funny auld attitude we have in this country. Same as public transport really. Keep raising prices year on year while less people use public transport. All these little things contribute to our overly expensive cost of living and I am getting bloody sick of it.


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    #107
    BetterThanThou
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭BetterThanThou


    Practically every house party I've ever been at that's more than about 4 or 5 of my close friends has resulted in some kind of dispute, luckily, it's usually verbal and not physical. I've personally never had a night out that ended up in any kind of dispute, and in addition, I could count on one hand the amount of disputes I've witnessed between people I don't know on a night out, and I usually go out in Dublin City. My theory is people are going to behave themselves better in public than in a private home. In addition to that, on a night out, my amount of drink would be about 10 pints, at a house party, it would probably be about a liter of spirits. And I'm pretty sure it's the same with everyone.(Alright, they may not overdo it to the extent I do.), I personally think the government should be doing as much as they can to get people out of their houses into pubs/clubs, there's definitely far less drama. I also think the opening times should be later, till maybe 4 or 5, people would most likely pace themselves more, my budget for a night out is usually about 50 euro, it doesn't matter if I go out at 8 and drink until closing or only go out at about 10 or 11, I pace myself accordingly and the 50 euro is always gone by the time I'm done.


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    #108
    Highflyer13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Highflyer13


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Protectionism pure and simple. The government couldn't give a rat's ass about public health, if they did they wouldn't allow the abomination that is the HSE to keep gambling with it.

    Agree. The HSE needs to be ripped apart and managers need to be told to get the fcuk out on to the front line and drive efficency. Far too much entitlement.That goes for many other areas of the public service. Circa 600k staff working in public jobs. Nearly a third of our labour force. I went to the hospital in December 2013 with a chest complaint and I'm only getting to see a consultant in February 2015. This is how they treat taxpayers!


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    #109
    the evasion_kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭the evasion_kid


    Regardless if a pint is 20 c or ten euro we should be looking at our attitude to alcohol in this country


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    #110
    Zonda999
    Registered Users Posts: 5,532 ✭✭✭Zonda999


    I think it stinks to high heavens trying to cobble together both the supermarkets (Selling 24 cans for €24) and Wetherspoons into the same gang supposedly putting the poor old Irish publican out of business.

    Whatever about the supermarkets (That I have no problem with), Wetherspoons are a legitimate competitor offering the exact same core service as the existing pubs in the respective areas. The problem is somehow with the price. this doesn't add up in my mind. I very much doubt Wetherspoons are operating these pubs at a loss. Its very clear that Wetherspoons are simply cutting costs (No music and TV's showing subscription sports channels) and using their large buying power. They are therefore simply "trimming the fat" and offering the core product (food and drink) at a less expensive end cost to the consumer. If people wish to pay more for the core product and enjoy the sport and music on offer, that's their choice. There's otherwise no need to force us all to pay food and drink prices based on these costs.


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    #111
    Highflyer13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Highflyer13


    the evasion_kid wrote: »
    Regardless if a pint is 20 c or ten euro we should be looking at our attitude to alcohol in this country

    Agree. Its embarrassing that our biggest tourist site is a brewery. Doesn't help the drunken Paddy stereotype one bit. We need to take ourselves a bit more serious.


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    #112
    pa990
    Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭pa990


    BetterThanThou wrote: »
    Practically every house party I've ever been at that's more than about 4 or 5 of my close friends has resulted in some kind of dispute, luckily, it's usually verbal and not physical. I've personally never had a night out that ended up in any kind of dispute,


    Classy friends


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    #113
    the evasion_kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭the evasion_kid


    Highflyer13 wrote: »
    Agree. Its embarrassing that our biggest tourist site is a brewery. Doesn't help the drunken Paddy stereotype one bit. We need to take ourselves a bit more serious.

    For the last 3 Christmases I've helped a friend of mine who wholesales alcohol,its fairly shocking our thirst for it certainly no recession when it comes to booze and yet when your dropping in thousands of euros worth of alcohol into these bars youd ask the publican are they busy....."ah so-so" would be the reply.


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    #114
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    AndonHandon wrote: »
    Binge drinking is defined by 3-4 pints in one sitting. Clearly €5 pints doesn't stop that. €5 pints is so expensive though, but I pay it when I go out at the weekend in Dublin as the places I like unfortunately charge it. As a result of this however, you wouldn't find me in a pub between Monday - Thursday for casual drink as it is too much to pay for a casual midweek drink. If I knew a pub had €3 pints I would actually head in to relax and break up the week with a friend or a few friends. Instead I would have a couple of bottles of beer 1-2 of the midweek nights at home. My point on this pub-pricing is that it does barely anything to influence how much I drink.

    The crusade of politicians to introduce minimum pricing for alcohol in pubs (separately to supermarkets) smacks of cosying up to the publican cartel which I honestly believe agree at their meetings to set prices at minimum levels across the board. Clearly Wetherspoons is going to work as it is good value and promotes craft beers which is what drinkers want in this day and age. No televisions in the pubs mean the focus is on chatting and socialising. Good pubs will adapt e.g. By running drinks promos on the 'off-peak days' (I'm amazed pubs do not do this already and instead are so reliant on Friday and Saturday nights).

    All this is agenda driven. Drinking 3-4 pints in one sitting is normal drinking that everyone does at the weekend. Binge drinking is going on binges of drink lasting hours. Just like what goes on in the Dail bar!! And they defining binge drinking as 3-4 sittings when they are drinking probably 10-15 in one sitting!! Just like the term obese has come to mean anyone slightly overweight. These are all dangerous definitions and are being used by dangerous healthocrats whose attitudes border on the Taliban.


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    #115
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    the evasion_kid wrote: »
    Regardless if a pint is 20 c or ten euro we should be looking at our attitude to alcohol in this country

    Yes, but not in a killjoy way. People can have responsible attitude to alcohol and enjoy it. But real binge drinking (i.e. drinking copius amounts of alcohol in one drawn out sitting) and drink related violence needs to be dealt with.

    Defining binge drinking as 3-4 pints is ridiculous and the politician who says this is a hypocrite. As he is responsible for drinking a lot more more than likely in one sitting! This sort of stupid statement tars all moderate drinkers with the brush of the true bingers.

    Pubs are very devious too with their having things on on working nights. Personally, I would not drink a night before work and find the weekends very poor in pubs because of them trying to get people in week nights and Sundays.


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    #116
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Fooking gowl of a woman


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    #117
    AndonHandon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭AndonHandon


    Apparently pub sky subscriptions cost €7,000 annually. And each individual Wetherspoons pub turns up profits in the tens of thousands, not hudreds of thousands. It just adds up. It's a business model which works and will help break up the current cartel.


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    #118
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/you-wipe-your-feet-walk-away-forget-it-and-build-a-new-life-for-yourself-26833377.html
    "My lowest moment after the separation was when the two boys and I went to live in a B&B."

    She rarely mentions herself without including the two boys -- Conor, 26, a doctor, and Stevie, 25, a trainee accountant with KPMG.

    And they live at home and went with her to the B&B?!?

    WTF?

    And by the way, congratulations Mary Mitchell O;Connor you lost yourself a voter with this ridiculous notion.


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    #119
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    The Vintners lobbyists must be hard at work


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    #120
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    syklops wrote: »
    And they live at home and went with her to the B&B?!?

    WTF?

    And by the way, congratulations Mary Mitchell O;Connorr you lost yourself a voter with this ridiculous notion.

    A doctor and a trainee account at KPMG - not allowed to look at politics.ie in case they get upset :pac:


    Is this one for real? the article doesn't make her out to be the most stable person mentally


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    #121
    HIB
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭HIB


    Zonda999 wrote: »
    I think it stinks to high heavens trying to cobble together both the supermarkets (Selling 24 cans for €24) and Wetherspoons into the same gang supposedly putting the poor old Irish publican out of business.

    Whatever about the supermarkets (That I have no problem with), Wetherspoons are a legitimate competitor offering the exact same core service as the existing pubs in the respective areas. The problem is somehow with the price. this doesn't add up in my mind. I very much doubt Wetherspoons are operating these pubs at a loss. Its very clear that Wetherspoons are simply cutting costs (No music and TV's showing subscription sports channels) and using their large buying power. They are therefore simply "trimming the fat" and offering the core product (food and drink) at a less expensive end cost to the consumer. If people wish to pay more for the core product and enjoy the sport and music on offer, that's their choice. There's otherwise no need to force us all to pay food and drink prices based on these costs.

    I don't really see the supermarkets as a problem, but I think wetherspoons could be a problem for the Ireland tourism 'brand'.

    You're right that they are competing in the same space as independently run pubs, and with their large buying power, they are sure to win a lot of these battles. So, we will end up with less independently run pubs and more wetherspoons or chain pubs.

    I'd worry that 'chain pubs' aren't very attractive to tourists, in the same way that chain restaurants aren't very attractive. I suppose the cities could safely handle a few wetherspoons, but my fear would be that they will grow and grow, swallowing up the competition until independent pubs are in the minority.

    From a purely selfish point of view though, I'm looking forward to the cheap pints!


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