E2.50 pints should be outlawed, says FG TD

The Backwards Man

matrim wrote: »

So in those places most people / pubs follow a sensible approach without the law forcing them too while also allowing for people who want to be out on those nights late. That is a good argument for allowing pubs to pick their own hours

In those places people actually go home without being telt

mikemac1

Highflyer13 wrote: »

The cosy cartel is worried and using political influence now.

Last summer a proposal was made to raise 200 million euro in invest in mental health services and to assist to tackling suicide. Sounds a noble idea, who can object to that.

The money was to be raised by a levy on alcohol sales from off licences and shops. Pubs were to be exempt.

Who supported the bill? Senator Terry Leyden from Roscommon, publican

Possibly it was a decent idea but he wasn't supporting it for the right reasons

The Backwards Man

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

In regards supermarkets a lot of them now close very late or are open 24 hours.
In regards banks-you really know how to grind my gears!!!
They are a joke in this country even closing for lunch when people would get a chance to do some banking.
Not wanting to harp on about New York but they opened until 7 there and were open on a Saturday as well.

NYC is 4am closing. Must have been a different type of place you were in

Richard Hillman

The likes of whetherspoons are designed against binge drinking. They have no Tv's or pool tables and All they want for you is to have a couple of pints, something to eat and feck off again.

The traditional pub is designed for spending the day there. For binge drinking.

Dr Turk Turkelton

The Backwards Man wrote: »

In those places people actually go home without being telt

Which might happen here as well if people weren't being forced home by archaic laws.
Anybody that's old enough to go to a bar is a long time out of short trousers and should be allowed make these decisions for themselves unless they are very obviously inebriated and the bar worker then makes the decision for them.

Specialun

I think its clear that this woman knows what she is talking about

Wetherspoons have come to ireland to trade at a loss, their calculator was fooked and somebody forgot to carry a 2

zl1whqvjs75cdy

How much are pints in the Dail bar?

Menas

Remember when publicans wanted a 15% levy on off licence sales to cover the loss from the proposed ban on sports advertising?

http://www.thejournal.ie/lid-levy-alcohol-sponsorship-sports-1013466-Jul2013/

Dr Turk Turkelton

The Backwards Man wrote: »

NYC is 4am closing. Must have been a different type of place you were in

I was talking about banks opening hours over there.
Also there was bars that you could get a late drink in and ironically enough they were Irish ones!!!

Flex

As others have pointed out, consumption levels in Ireland have dropped massively since the early 00's. We're now behind a lot of European countries and projected to continue the steep decline for the foreseeable future, to the point we'll be below average, so Im fed up with the lazy "You silly plebs with drown in drink if we didnt stop you" or "Shure we have a fierce unhealthy relationship with drink, the government/movies said so" argument used to justify this.

We were in a bar in the city centre last night for a birthday party where a pint was about €5.80 and a spirit and mixer was €6.80 (the €6.80 was a 'special offer' price too, would typically be €7.50, €2.50 of which is for a 200ml bottle of 7up/ginger ale/coke). Craft beers were just under €6 each for a 500ml bottle too. Voices were all hoarse from trying to shout over the music too. Have been to Wetherspoons, whose suppliers are charging them the same as other pubs, and, well Im sure everyone is aware of the price list. No deafening music is a huge plus too. If pubs want to charge the above prices thats fine, its their business, similarly Wetherspoons (or any other bar) should be allowed to charge reasonable prices if they want.

The present government has pushed drink prices in the off trade way up with their two recent excise increases and now want to do the same in the on trade. Its like Fine Gael are having a minor panic and trying to appeal to the social conservative and publican vote or something. While Im aware this is just a lone TD, Im becoming more and more disappointed with Fine Gael after what I thought was a relatively good performance up the last few months.

UCDVet

Am I the only one who finds this insulting? Are we really to believe the Irish public is so stupid, so unable to control themselves, that we literally drink until we run out of money?

'Those Irish drunks - they'll drink til they pass out or the money runs out. Only sane thing to do is raise the prices!'

Feck that.

If I want to get drunk, I'll get drunk. The insignificant difference in price isn't going to stop me. And the implication that it would is down right insulting.

bjork

€2.50 wouldn't get you a 7up in most places. Fair play to them if they're selling beer at this price

What next? A personal government appointed pub monitor in every pub watching you drink your limit of 1 x €10 pint :rolleyes:

Valetta

UCDVet wrote: »

Am I the only one who finds this insulting? Are we really to believe the Irish public is so stupid, so unable to control themselves, that we literally drink until we run out of money?

'Those Irish drunks - they'll drink til they pass out or the money runs out. Only sane thing to do is raise the prices!'

Feck that.

If I want to get drunk, I'll get drunk. The insignificant difference in price isn't going to stop me. And the implication that it would is down right insulting.

Why would you find it insulting when it obviously wasn't aimed at you?

eviltwin

I don't drink so the cost of booze doesn't impact me but this is ridiculous. I'm sick of the anti drinking bull from government. If they care so much about our health then ban cigarettes. There is no such thing as a healthy level of smoking. But they won't because it's nothing to do with health and all to do with revenue.

Highflyer13

bjork wrote: »

€2.50 wouldn't get you a 7up in most places. Fair play to them if they're selling beer at this price

What next? A personal government appointed pub monitor in every pub watching you drink your limit of 1 x €10 pint :rolleyes:

Minimum pricing before Wetherspoons expands further. They are planning a rapid expansion and actively seeking premises as we speak. Watch this space.

Geuze

Minimum-unit pricing would not affect pub prices, just off-sales prices.

johnnyskeleton

machiavellianme wrote: »

She's obviously the latest pawn for the cartel that is the vintners association.
If wetherspoons can sell for that price and still make a profit, how is it below cost?

Crucially, they are selling bottles of 8 degrees beer for 2.50. Those small companies simply cant afford to sell below heir production costs and, in any event, have plenty other outlets for their beer.

We are told time and time again that the high price of beer is due to high costs etc, especially for anything that carries the title "craft beer". Turns out that this is just not true or else wetherspoons simply would not get hold of 8 degrees beer and sell it for €2.50.

If she really wanted to stop binge drinking, how about refusing to let pubs that sell beer for €5/6 a pint have atms in the premises, or to give cash back at stupid o clock? Then people would run out of money and stop drinking, right?

anncoates

Ah yes:

"Deputy Mitchell O'Connor said this "welcome move accurately and strongly illustrates how below-cost selling is neither successful nor beneficial to the business community".

Cantona's Collars

Didn't JD's tell Heineken to feck off because they were selling it "too cheaply" and Heineken (vested interests) didn't like it?

As I said in another thread,the ones that the government seem so worried about either drink at home or frequent park benches in virtually every town in Ireland.You won't see them darken the door of a Wetherspoons or any other pub for that matter.The problem drinkers in my town are barred from every pub and are to be seen huddled around drinking cheap lager and cider that anyone with taste buds wouldn't use to clean their toilets with.

bjork

zerks wrote: »

Didn't JD's tell Heineken to feck off because they were selling it "too cheaply" and Heineken (vested interests) didn't like it?

As I said in another thread,the ones that the government seem so worried about either drink at home or frequent park benches in virtually every town in Ireland.You won't see them darken the door of a Wetherspoons or any other pub for that matter.The problem drinkers in my town are barred from every pub and are to be seen huddled around drinking cheap lager and cider that anyone with taste buds wouldn't use to clean their toilets with.

There's only one solution I can see to this problem. Remove all park benches and close down parks.

Grayson

Cienciano wrote: »

Ah the poor pubs. Ireland never had a problem with alcohol when it was the pub owners deciding the prices and who got alcohol. I've never seen an alcoholic do into a pub.

And restaurants aren't really affected by it. In fact a resteraunt buys a bottle for a fiver and jacks the price up to 20. They stick it in the middle of the menu because people are more likely to buy the middle priced item in the middle of the menu.

Pubs on the other hand don't have that option. We go there primarily to drink. The drink isn't secondary to the food.

The vintners have had their cartel for far too long. I'd actually like to see more deregulation. Allow more pubs. Allow cafe bars.

UCDVet

Valetta wrote: »

Why would you find it insulting when it obviously wasn't aimed at you?

How can you say it wasn't aimed at me?

Anyone who drinks from pubs, at all, will be affected by government mandated prices changes. I go to pubs. So, this is clearly aimed at me.

It won't be EFFECTIVE at preventing me from getting drunk. Because I, as an adult, decide how much to drink. The markup the government is discussing will not limit my drinking; but it will negatively affect me.

shruikan2553

It would be easier to take the government seriously about alcohol if they didnt have a subsidised bar.

Grayson

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Which might happen here as well if people weren't being forced home by archaic laws.
Anybody that's old enough to go to a bar is a long time out of short trousers and should be allowed make these decisions for themselves unless they are very obviously inebriated and the bar worker then makes the decision for them.

Binge drinking is defined as more than twice your daily allowance of alcohol. So 3-4 pints is binge drinking. A bottle of wine is binge drinking. That's over a whole night.

Why isn't she bringing in legislation to stop people from selling more than 3 pints to a person in a night? A little breathalyser at the bar could be used.

Grayson

Flex wrote: »

We were in a bar in the city centre last night for a birthday party where a pint was about €5.80 and a spirit and mixer was €6.80 (the €6.80 was a 'special offer' price too, would typically be €7.50, €2.50 of which is for a 200ml bottle of 7up/ginger ale/coke). Craft beers were just under €6 each for a 500ml bottle too. Voices were all hoarse from trying to shout over the music too. Have been to Wetherspoons, whose suppliers are charging them the same as other pubs, and, well Im sure everyone is aware of the price list. No deafening music is a huge plus too. If pubs want to charge the above prices thats fine, its their business, similarly Wetherspoons (or any other bar) should be allowed to charge reasonable prices if they want.

Because as I'm sure you're aware if people can't talk, they drink more.

Cienciano

Grayson wrote: »

The vintners have had their cartel for far too long. I'd actually like to see more deregulation. Allow more pubs. Allow cafe bars.

The vintners were against McDowells cafe bar idea. Completely shot down. They were also against the smoking ban and were against any drop in the drink driving limit :rolleyes:
It's no wonder people don't like them.

You know it's funny, a few times over the years a thread on AH would pop up about what you want in a pub. some of the most common things are no tv, better selection of beer and lower prices. It's almost like the most successful chain of pubs in the UK are actually giving the people what they want instead of what the LVA do and tell us what we should want.

johnnyskeleton

BlatentCheek wrote: »

The difference is that in those cases the businesses involved made the decision that it wasn't worth their while to open whereas in the case of licensed premises their hours are being limited by the state in a manner which disadvantages shift workers.

Im surprised SF arent all over this in opposition. A law which was originally brought in by the British to stop munitions workers getting too drunk to make the shells in the morning. Great way to stir anti FG sentiment by comparing them to the old enemy and trying to make good little workers of us rather than genuinely caring about our health

Capt'n Midnight

DeJa VooDoo wrote: »

The average price of a pint in Ireland is €4.67.
The government takes at least €1.50 of this.
You can see why they're panicking.

Breakdown
95c of that is VAT which the government would probably have got anyway unless you bought food or invested in pensions.

only 55c is excise, exactly the same as if you bought in a supermarket


€1.70 for for Diageo :eek:
Aldi are selling can's for €1 a pint , including 50c excise and 17c VAT, the cost of transport from abroad and the can itself, and they are making a profit too because it's not on special.

It's left as an exercise for the reader to figure out how much the contents of the can cost to make, Diageo's production costs will be similar.

If the publican's had tried to get a better price from Diageo rather than gouging the punter you'd have some respect for them. Don't forget too that every time the publicans ask for a tax reduction you'd end up paying up for the tax shortfall via tax increases on other things so indirect gouging.


Minimum price is just corporate welfare.

Cienciano

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Im surprised SF arent all over this in opposition. A law which was originally brought in by the British to stop munitions workers getting too drunk to make the shells in the morning. Great way to stir anti FG sentiment by comparing them to the old enemy and trying to make good little workers of us rather than genuinely caring about our health

Seems the pub lobby is too powerful for anyone to criticise.

hatrickpatrick

Protectionism pure and simple. The government couldn't give a rat's ass about public health, if they did they wouldn't allow the abomination that is the HSE to keep gambling with it.