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**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    There is nothing so bad that should make a sane decent person vote for murderers and scumbag career criminals

    jaysus .. are you sure you are not talking about FF, the Greens , FG etc.

    Because when I hear the words murderers, scumbag career criminals etc I think of all those people who had to cancel their heath insurance because of the recession. I had to cancel mine. I think of people lying on trolleys in hospitals. I think of all the suicides from people overwhelmed by debts. I'll even admit I felt despair myself at my debts at times. Whenever I think of the establishment parties I think of murder with a different face, bad nutrition with cheap unhealthy food, emigration , poverty and people freezing in the cold with the lights off in their homes. I remember Harney in office tried to cancel vaccines to protect little girls from developing cancer when they grew up in order to save 10 to 15 million. I think of the consequences of their actions. When I look at the consequences and compare it to the spin all politicians look the freaking same to me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Stargate wrote: »
    Or qualifications to work at IW .

    PS , hey masculinist give us a thanks i wont tell anyone lol :p

    hahaha I'm biting my nails to stop the urge to thank. They say if you keep a good habit up for 30 days you can break a bad one but boards keeps dangling the thanks button in front of me :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Tinkersbell


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    I think it's Stockholm Syndrome. I really do.

    Braindead would be a better description.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    What next lol

    Armed response Unit in Clonmel re peaceful protest ;)



    https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10204811772681785&set=vb.1462481593&type=2&theater


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Satriale


    I would like Irish Water as a company to be restructured
    Yes of course. But just like anyone looking for a job or working in RTE has to prove they paid their TV licence, IW will need proof that you registered with them as a customer, if you want any of those jobs.

    What if i know someone in FG? ;)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Stargate wrote: »
    What next lol

    Armed response Unit in Clonmel re peaceful protest ;)



    https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10204811772681785&set=vb.1462481593&type=2&theater

    Nice to see protesters tying up valuable resources... again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    donvito99 wrote: »
    Nice to see protesters tying up valuable resources... again.

    But they weren't.

    Few people holding placards :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    donvito99 wrote: »
    Nice to see protesters tying up valuable resources... again.

    LoL , armed guards .... did you hear and see it with your own eyes ...ARMED !!

    Go away before i report you for trolling :pac: :D :P


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Some will say I've snapped, others............ Who knows, I'm not sure I actually care any more. I'm tempted to find a piece of chain and connect myself to the gates in Dawson Street, but I'm not sure that it would actually make a difference.

    The following is going out in my next E-mail run,

    Dear Taoiseach

    I was planning to write to you in relation to the issues that are being raised and discussed in just about every forum and meeting place regarding Irish Water.

    My original stance was that I felt it was completely appropriate to have a state body that will recover the costs involved in providing water and treating waste water, and that metering was the best way to encourage conservation and I have been defending that stance on places like boards.ie, as my father was responsible for the management of a large waste water system for a city of 100,000 in the UK for over 40 years, so I acccumulated a considerable knowledge of the subject over time..

    That was before I started looking at the way in which YOU, and your colleagues have allowed Irish Water to set up their operation. I was already unhappy with the ethos and culture of Irish Water, their focus and methods are completely inappropriate to a new company that has not yet really started trading or operating, but then, In the last few hours, I have been made aware that there are at least 3 "retired" county managers now working in full time management roles in Irish Water, and that has changed my thinking and attitude towards the whole thing..

    I will keep this simple. Please consider your position, and that of your Government. You have so fundamentally reneged on the promises you made in your 2011 manifesto, I am now in the position where it is impossible for me to consider continuing to support Fine Gael unless there is a fundamental and far reaching restructuring of the party, and the people that are leading that party, and the deception and cronyism that is clear in the Irish Water situation leaves me with no option but to ask you to resign and call a general election at an early date.

    To give you an idea of the disgust and contempt I feel towards the Irish Political system, I will tell you that despite being British, I am seriously considering that a vote for Sinn Fein will be my only way to positively express the absolute loathing I have for the mainline political system that is accepted as the norm in Ireland.

    My political leaning would be centre right, but there is no way that I can vote for either of the main line political parties with a clear conscience, both FF and FG are so disconnected from the people that they are supposed to be serving, a vote for either of them would serve only to allow and legitimise the continuance of the present unacceptable situation, and I am no longer prepared to tolerate the regular insults that are being heaped on the heads of the people of Ireland by the people that are supposed to be representing us and acting with our best interests at heart,

    Why am I so angry? Very simple. Irish Water has been stuffed full of retired semi state managers who have "retired" from Local authorities, with a considerably less than acceptable track record, on obscene pensions, and they have now been employed by Irish Water on even more obscene pay rates, which I find completely and utterly offensive and unacceptable.

    I am happy to pay a reasonable charge for potable water, and for the work that is needed to enhance the system for the future, but there is NO WAY that I will pay for the slush fund of failed semi state managers who are already getting obscene pensions, they are the wrong people, with the wrong skills, in the wrong place, and the fact that you have allowed that to happen makes it even more damnable given your previous stance on these issues.

    You very specifically promised that you would deal with the corruption, cronyism and inappropriate expenses and allowances culture, but instead, you have created an untouchable super quango that is stuffed full of semi state blow in managers from other areas of the state Golden Circle, at even higher pay rates than they were getting.

    I find that both reprehensible and offensive, and completely inappropriate to the serious job that Irish Water are supposed to be carrying out, given that one of the reasons for setting up IW was because ot the failures of the local authorities to deliver an acceptable system and service

    I'm struggling to even survive as a result of the mistakes and misleading information that was put into the public domain by Bertie Ahern and his cronies, which we made the mistake of believing, and instead of shutting down a good business that was feeling the pressure of the "supposedly short recession", and limiting our losses, we put more in, and lost it all, and more when the "short recession" turned out to be the worst in the history of the state. We have never recovered from that trauma, and the harsh reality is that we probably never will, given the scale of the debts we ended up with, and the massive losses in value on the one thing we own, our property..We are both of an age where finding acceptable employment has proved impossible, so our outlook on retirement is looking very bleak indeed, as it's very clear that in the medium to long term, all of our energy bills and our services bills for property tax, bins and water are only going to go in one direction.

    As if that wasn't enough, as a direct result of the mis management and corrupt practices in Meath County Council over a long period of time, I have a house built in 1990 that I can't sell because it was built too low, and on a flood plain. To try and improve a bad situation, I have been trying to get Meath County council to remove a sewer pipe that runs over a stream close to us, as it was a contributory cause in €120,000 damage from overflowing sewers that flooded my property in 2002, but 12 years later, I am still trying to get an acceptable response from Meath, the OPW ( who also are involved) don't respond to E-mail messages, and having sent an E-mail to Irish Water on this subject nearly a month ago, I am still waiting for "the local representative" to make contact with me.

    I have seen at first hand the sort of work practices that are deemed acceptable and normal in semi state bodies, as an external contractor, I was responsible for a long term project sorting out major problems that meant a new computer system was unusable in some areas as a result of the incompetence of the management, and the problems regarding the house here have meant that I have spent a significant amount of time trying to engage with people in Meath County Council and the Office of Public Works, but that has not produced any worthwhile results.

    When you were first elected, I hoped that you were going to deliver on some of the promises that you made. but I am bitterly dissapointed that in the areas relating to the overhaul of politics and the state services, not only have you failed completely to deliver on your promises, but you have made it worse by allowing and apparently encouraging even more of the nepotism and cronyism that you were supposedly going to bring to an end.

    Bluntly, you, your ministers and the government are out of touch with the reality that is life for the ordinary citizen. We don't enjoy the same life style that you and your colleagues appear to enjoy, and the disconnect between the political elite and the ordinary citizens of this country is becoming wider with every week that passes, and it seems that you are completely oblivious of the problems that the ordinary citizen is facing.

    We don't get to do the ordinary things we used to, the decisions now are about if we will have hot water for a shower, or heating for an hour in the evening, because we can't afford to have both, and the thought of being made to contribute even more to the pay and pension pot of the people at the top of Irish Water is making my blood boil, because my experience of trying to engage with such people is that they are not worth the money they are being paid, because they are manifestly failing to deliver, and should not be in the positions that they are. The top people at IW are earning nearly €5000 a week, they will get more in a month that we will have coming into this house for the entire YEAR., that is the degree of disconnect that now exists across this state.

    We won't get any help with our water bills, I'm not earning enough to be paying tax, and the limited benefits we get don't include the packages that will be enhanced to provide extra money towards the water charge, so our choice is that we will see our grandchildren in Co Clare even less often.

    If we are lucky, and nothing goes wrong, we get down to Clare once every 3 or 4 months, that's going to be down to once or twice a year now, depending on what the eventual water charge actually ends up as.

    So, to sum it up, right now, I am beyond angry, because I feel that having trusted Fine Gael to carry out the promises you made in 2011 regarding the state of politics in Ireland, I find that you have coldly and cynically set up a super quango full of the political elite, done a quiet and almost secret deal with the unions to ensure continued employment for people that there's no work for, and allowed a massive,bloated and inappropriate structure complete with an inappropriate "entitlement" bonus ,allowances and expenses culture without any regard for the people that will have to pay for that structure, and now that large numbers of people are rising up and saying that your plans are inappropriate and unacceptable, you and your ministers are becoming increasingly arrogant and dismissive of the legitimate and appropriate complaints of the people that you were elected to represent.

    Last weekend, I didn't join the march in Ashbourne because there were groups in that march that didn't represent the opinions I wanted to express.

    However, if there are more marches in the coming weeks, even if SF etc are there, I WILL be participating, in order to make sure that you get the very clear message about the degree of contempt I now feel towards you and your Government

    I hope my feeling are clear, you have left me with no other option than to ask you to give serious and urgent consideration to resigning and calling an early general election, so that the people can express their views on the present state of the country. .

    Yours Sincerely

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    You have so fundamentally reneged on the promises you made in your 2011 manifesto,

    FGs manifesto in relation to water charges is quite clear to be fair to them.
    Fine Gael will introduce a fair funding model to deliver clean and reliable water. We will not ask homeowner to pay for a broken and unreliable system and that is why Fine Gael will only introduce water charging after the establishment of a new state owned water utility company to take over responsibility from the separate local authorities for Ireland's water infrastructure and to drive new investment.

    You get what you vote for, mostly.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Stargate wrote: »
    LoL , armed guards .... did you hear and see it with your own eyes ...ARMED !!

    Go away before i report you for trolling :pac: :D :P

    I'm not sure I get your drift at all on this one Stargate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Stargate wrote: »
    What next lol

    Armed response Unit in Clonmel re peaceful protest ;)

    https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10204811772681785&set=vb.1462481593&type=2&theater
    donvito99 wrote: »
    Nice to see protesters tying up valuable resources... again.
    Stargate wrote: »
    LoL , armed guards .... did you hear and see it with your own eyes ...ARMED !!

    Go away before i report you for trolling :pac: :D :P
    donvito99 wrote: »
    I'm not sure I get your drift at all on this one Stargate.

    See above donvito99 i would have thought it was self explanatory :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Stargate wrote: »
    See above donvito99 i would have thought it was self explanatory :rolleyes:

    You linked to the presence of armed Guards. I complained of "valuable resources" being tied up, you threw in a heap of emoticons in your usual vague, smirking way.

    i don't know what to say. It's not compelling, that's for sure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    donvito99 wrote: »
    You linked to the presence of armed Guards. I complained of "valuable resources" being tied up, you threw in a heap of emoticons in your usual vague, smirking way.

    i don't know what to say. It's not compelling, that's for sure.


    Armed Guards for a PEACEFUL protest , why were they even within a 100 miles of the place? Why? Answer me that ?

    If you cannot see the point being made to you , then i cannot help you with that. Maybe you are unable to have a balanced view on things donvito99 ?
    My own opinion is it is much much too much OTT to have armed Guards helping IW with any type of installation of meters . That's my view and i have said it clearly .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 dragoneye


    Ok so I I have been following this thread and have never posted but I feel I kinda off have to now...

    On Monday evening my husband came in from work with a beautiful gash on his forehead and nose

    I obviously asked what happened he said someone threw a stone at him - he is working at installing meters

    I asked did he ring the guards as technically I think that's assault although I stand to be corrected on that.

    he said no that all lads on his gang WERE used to it by now.. Getting insults called scabs scum of the earth ..

    How is this even possible that hard working men can be treated like this they didn't bring in charges

    I don"t understand it


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    donvito99 wrote: »
    FGs manifesto in relation to water charges is quite clear to be fair to them.



    You get what you vote for, mostly.

    I wasn't against the concept of paying for water based on metering, but at the same time, I don't recall voting for the cronyism that's ended up with 3 failed county managers in senior positions at IW, or any of the other unacceptable ways that are a legacy of an eliteist state sector that sees itself as above being made to account for their actions, and "entitled" to being treated differently from normal employees in other sectors.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭teddy_303


    dragoneye wrote: »
    Ok so I I have been following this thread and have never posted but I feel I kinda off have to now...

    On Monday evening my husband came in from work with a beautiful gash on his forehead and nose

    I obviously asked what happened he said someone threw a stone at him - he is working at installing meters

    I asked did he ring the guards as technically I think that's assault although I stand to be corrected on that.

    he said no that all lads on his gang WERE used to it by now.. Getting insults called scabs scum of the earth ..

    How is this even possible that hard working men can be treated like this they didn't bring in charges

    I don"t understand it


    with an account with 9 posts made, this being your second on water meters also, there is a whiff of shill off your account imo..

    the only injuries i've seen or heard of were of meter installers sending peaceful protesters to hospital in ambulences.. one 50 yr old lady with a broken elbow in dublin, and another elderly man in cork hit with a barrier by another installer... the only place i've heard of this porr water installers story was in the indo, owned by the same man who has the contract to install water meters, without any info to show the events reported actually even happened.... just saying...

    i have also seen plenty of obvious irish water staff online spreading lies on other sites, expecting sympathy from the exploitable plebs. Also, party hacks with hidden identies, supporting IW, jobbridge, welfare cuts and tax increases online, and even joe duffy, who own businesses and were being grossly overpaid for services they offer, many multiples of their advertised prices, by government departments, or in emplotment of government departments... and they were at least as obnoxious as any FG mouthpeice... joe duffy interviewed a guy claiming to be on jobbridge, talking about how great he thought it was, when he got found out to actually be working in a very well paid position for the department of social protection FFS..

    i wonder did he get through to talk live on air randomly? PFFFT!

    funny how easy it is to spot the crocodile tears on thread after a while...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    teddy_303 wrote: »
    with an account 1 month old, with 9 posts made, this being your second on water meters also, there is a whiff of shill off your account imo..
    Why would you lie like this when its plain for everyone to see that that poster has been a member of this site for over a year - way before the IW controversy?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    I agree with metered water charges
    dragoneye wrote: »
    Ok so I I have been following this thread and have never posted but I feel I kinda off have to now...

    On Monday evening my husband came in from work with a beautiful gash on his forehead and nose

    I obviously asked what happened he said someone threw a stone at him - he is working at installing meters

    I asked did he ring the guards as technically I think that's assault although I stand to be corrected on that.

    he said no that all lads on his gang WERE used to it by now.. Getting insults called scabs scum of the earth ..

    How is this even possible that hard working men can be treated like this they didn't bring in charges

    I don"t understand it

    I'm not justifying what happened but the anger out there is getting more and more substantial. That should not have happened to your husband but how many people would have loved to lob a rock through endas audi the other day? ? I think the meter installers are stuck in the middle here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Why would you lie like this when its plain for everyone to see that that poster has been a member of this site for over a year - way before the IW controversy?

    It is an interesting side issue here that so many on the anti-water charges side seem to genuinely have difficulty with the idea that anybody might have a different opinion to them.

    If you don’t agree with them then you are quite obviously a FG shill or an IW employee or now it seems, a liar.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    I'm not justifying what happened but the anger out there is getting more and more substantial. That should not have happened to your husband but how many people would have loved to lob a rock through endas audi the other day? ? I think the meter installers are stuck in the middle here.

    Perhaps there's some form of positive action or stance the front line staff in IW could take to show they have some sympathy with those who object , with good reason, to IW and to express any concerns they may have with the structure of IW. A 1 day stoppage, a good spokes person to go public.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    It is an interesting side issue here that so many on the anti-water charges side seem to genuinely have difficulty with the idea that anybody might have a different opinion to them.

    If you don’t agree with them then you are quite obviously a FG shill or an IW employee or now it seems, a liar.

    All ive seen here in that regard is trolls defending and utterly denying well recorded and undeniably examples of cronyism, corruption and stroke politics


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    All ive seen here in that regard is trolls defending and utterly denying well recorded and undeniably examples of cronyism, corruption and stroke politics

    Ah, you're probably only saying that cos you're a mad fianna failer! :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    It is an interesting side issue here that so many on the anti-water charges side seem to genuinely have difficulty with the idea that anybody might have a different opinion to them.

    If you don’t agree with them then you are quite obviously a FG shill or an IW employee or now it seems, a liar.
    I expect this from idiots on the internet, but I also heard something similar from Paul Murphy TD on the radio yesterday. He was able to categorically state that there had been no violence or intimidation by any water protesters at all - ever.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Phoebas wrote: »
    Why would you lie like this when its plain for everyone to see that that poster has been a member of this site for over a year - way before the IW controversy?

    I'm guessing they thought they had been a member from Oct 13.
    It is an interesting side issue here that so many on the anti-water charges side seem to genuinely have difficulty with the idea that anybody might have a different opinion to them.

    If you don’t agree with them then you are quite obviously a FG shill or an IW employee or now it seems, a liar.

    Just seems odd to me, in This post only 3 weeks ago They were asking posters advice on a meter they had just got installed, and if anyone knew if it was the norm.
    Got my meter installed last Thursday the 2nd - done a reading today & the reading was 151 - this seems very low can anyone tell me if it is

    You'd have thought the husband might tbh.

    (seems legit)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    It is an interesting side issue here that so many on the anti-water charges side seem to genuinely have difficulty with the idea that anybody might have a different opinion to them.

    If you don’t agree with them then you are quite obviously a FG shill or an IW employee or now it seems, a liar.

    Just as anyone not in agreement with metering and excessive charges are unemployed social welfare scroungers and more recently dissidents


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Hijpo wrote: »
    Just as anyone not in agreement with metering and excessive charges are unemployed social welfare scroungers and more recently dissidents

    I don't even own a tracksuit. :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    I'm guessing they thought they had been a member from Oct 13.

    Did everyone except me turn their clocks back a year instead of an hour the other week!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Phoebas wrote: »
    Did everyone except me turn their clocks back a year instead of an hour the other week!

    They posted at 0156am on a sat morn (Friday night) I'm guessing beer or some other alcohol played a part in the vision dept


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    Hijpo wrote: »
    Just as anyone not in agreement with metering and excessive charges are unemployed social welfare scroungers and more recently dissidents

    I can’t recall any accusations of shilling against those opposed to water charges. You might be able to point out a few but it seems you cannot go a page here without that nonsense being wheeled out by the anti side.


This discussion has been closed.
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