**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

tayto lover

MOD

12/11/14 - 23.46

People need to reign it in a bit. I'm not far from locking the thread and leaving it closed, the amount of mod actions on this thread and the other is far too much and it's not even one or two posters, going by the last 5 pages I could pick out 5 or 6+ for personal abuse, uncivil and acting the d!ck in general.

Please stay on topic, IW/Water charges, not the 1916 rising or whatever else.

/MOD


I wonder if many people will sell their PPS numbers for 100 euro?

BoJack Horseman

I would like Irish Water as a company to be restructured

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder if many people will sell their PPS numbers for 100 euro?

I can't imagine anyone would go to the trouble & not!


*edit*

1st post of the new thread Tayto.....
By boards law, you are the winner!

Larbre34

I do not want to pay for water in any way

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Ive said a few times that I support a single water provision entity.

I also support the charging all users for water usage

My personal choice would have been a national statutory agency (quango) like the NRA for example.
I'm not appalled by its semi state status, I can see the logic, its just a preference.

I'm not fond of the leadership, but I don't know anyone better for the roles...... Wasn't happy with the lack of more transparent directorial recruitment mind

however I still support the principle of IW.
I think long term its best for Ireland.... Once its not killed in its embryonic state that is.

But sure the NRA itself could have been used. A load of civil engineering and project management experience that did a good job previously and currently isnt building any roads. The County Councils are working to a service level agreement with IW which the NRA could have managed just as well, as they currently do for national road network maintenance, and any charges could have been levied at Council level similar to commercial rates or NPPR.

However none of that logic was employed, IW is a mess, time to abolish and go back to first principles before more good money is p155ed away after bad.

Curly Judge

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Cuttlefish wrote: »

Yet we can write off €100m debt for Siteserv?

If you had a company you could have negotiated a deal for a 99 million writedown and the powers that be would have been only too delighted to accept and save the exchequer a million quid.
The only reason you should resent DOBs bid is if he used some undue influence to prevent others from bidding in competition with him.
If you have that evidence you should present it.
If not...well...

twowheelsgood

Irish Steve wrote: »

and buying the election with short term bribes or tax cuts is unlikely to work in the way it used to, as people are at last waking up to the reality of the falseness of the old system

I suspect this will prove to be more aspiration than expectation. I see no evidence that the electorate can no longer be bought. But we could soon find out as we are (unfortunately) quite likely to have governments depending on independents in the next few years. We will then see if the days of the Jackie Healy-Rae’s of this country really are done.

And I also doubt your more substantive point about any great public demand for higher standards from our public representatives. The enthusiasm for such lofty standards seems to come with austere times and depart the same way. Can you cite a single TD who was punished by the electorate for being unethical (as opposed to thrashing the economy)?

Irish Steve wrote: »

and the marches of recent weeks are a clear demonstration of that awareness.

Most of the marchers I think would disagree with your thesis that we should change the status quo in relation to water provision.

KERSPLAT!

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

MOD

Just coming up on 10k posts which is when the hamsters start twitching.

I'll transfer the last few posts to a new thread and we can continue, on the phone so gimmie a few minutes

BoJack Horseman

I would like Irish Water as a company to be restructured

Larbre34 wrote: »

But sure the NRA itself could have been used. A load of civil engineering and project management experience that did a good job previously and currently isnt building any roads. The County Councils are working to a service level agreement with IW which the NRA could have managed just as well, as they currently do for national road network maintenance, and any charges could have been levied at Council level similar to commercial rates or NPPR.

However none of that logic was employed, IW is a mess, time to abolish and go back to first principles before more good money is p155ed away after bad.

I initially assumed years ago it was all going to be a single state billing authority, for LPT & water.

Then LA's, IW & whoever could source funding from it.

I don't want to see the current incarnation of IW culled though.

Too much has been spent...
If it fails there will never be a v2.0
And the positive principles & benefits of a centralised authority are lost.

Caliden

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Curly Judge wrote: »

If you had a company you could have negotiated a deal for a 99 million writedown and the powers that be would have been only too delighted to accept and save the exchequer a million quid.
The only reason you should resent DOBs bid is if he used some undue influence to prevent others from bidding in competition with him.
If you have that evidence you should present it.
If not...well...

Please see the entries on April 1st and April 2nd 2012.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/01/30/thicker-than-uisce/

Banjo String

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Still not paying or giving them mine , or my children's pps numbers . :pac:

branie2

Ever watch the videos of Gardai attacking protestors?

Banjo String

I do not want to pay for water in any way

branie2 wrote: »

Ever watch the videos of Gardai attacking protestors?

No. Read the book though.

Buona Fortuna

Came across this - sorry if its been posted before. Was a cracking film though

Irish Steve

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Larbre34 wrote: »

But sure the NRA itself could have been used. A load of civil engineering and project management experience that did a good job previously and currently isnt building any roads. The County Councils are working to a service level agreement with IW which the NRA could have managed just as well, as they currently do for national road network maintenance, and any charges could have been levied at Council level similar to commercial rates or NPPR.

However none of that logic was employed, IW is a mess, time to abolish and go back to first principles before more good money is p155ed away after bad.

It might have made sense, but then there would have been the fundamental problem of what to do with all the people from the 26 local authorities and the local councils who were water related employees, that's the real issue, as ESRI have pointed out, IW are overstaffed by as many as 2000 people because they can't actually reduce the head count of semi state employees that were the local authority staff, even if it means they now have 30 plus people who all would have been dealing with supplier invoices. There's NO way that IW needs that number of people, so we end up with yet another fudge of some sort to "employ" people that there is no role for in the new structure.

Then there's the problem that some of the people "transferred" from the LA's to IW may not have actually been directly related to water, but were no longer wanted at the LA, and this was used as a way to move on the dead wood, and don't anybody tell me that doesn't happen, it's the standard civil service/semi state method of moving the deck chairs on the Titanic, have a reorganisation of the departments, Governments do it regularly to get round the problem of unsuitable people doing jobs that are no longer relevant, as there's no other way to move people out.

Government work is not called a pension for life for nothing, it's the one real difference remaining between the private sector and the state sector, and it's an issue that WILL have to be dealt with at some stage, if for no other reason than to make the people in the state sector cop on to life in certain areas. If the IMF/Troika bail out hadn't happened, it would have been sorted, as there would have been NO state jobs for a while, but the relevant people were not willing to take that level of change on board, even if it would have meant that Ireland would have had the most progressive and fit for purpose state services in the EU as a result. Missed opportunity, but that's another one for the history books.

Creative Juices

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/sinn-fein-accused-of-living-the-high-life-in-new-york-30723717.html

In sharp Dail exchanges over water charges with Sinn Fein deputy leader, Mary Lou McDonald, the Labour leader said Gerry Adams was tonight hosting a €500 per head party fundraising dinner in New York.
"That is significantly more than what an ordinary family would pay in water charges for a year," Ms Burton said.

I am no SF supporter (yet) but is that not an incredibly childish and stupid thing for Burton to say in the Dáil?

Banjo String

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Creative Juices wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/sinn-fein-accused-of-living-the-high-life-in-new-york-30723717.html



I am no SF supporter (yet) but is that not an incredibly childish and stupid thing for Burton to say in the Dáil?

Are American, SF supporters, attending the fundraiser liable for Irish water charges

Burton is scraping the barrel on that one.

mikom

Creative Juices wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/sinn-fein-accused-of-living-the-high-life-in-new-york-30723717.html



I am no SF supporter (yet) but is that not an incredibly childish and stupid thing for Burton to say in the Dáil?

The woman is a fuckin' harridan.
The labour party are finished.

Cuttlefish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuttlefish View Post
Yet we can write off €100m debt for Siteserv?

If you had a company you could have negotiated a deal for a 99 million writedown and the powers that be would have been only too delighted to accept and save the exchequer a million quid.
The only reason you should resent DOBs bid is if he used some undue influence to prevent others from bidding in competition with him.
If you have that evidence you should present it.
If not...well...


One word --- ESAT

yopy

branie2 wrote: »

Ever watch the videos of Gardai attacking protestors?

Janey mack, the Gardai would never do something like that. Besides, RTE would SURELY report it if they did.

yopy

mikom wrote: »

The woman is a fuckin' harridan.
The labour party are finished.

Surely their only chance is to stop Irish water and then collapse the government. Other than that, SF will take their seats.

mikom

Curly Judge wrote: »

If you had a company you could have negotiated a deal for a 99 million writedown and the powers that be would have been only too delighted to accept and save the exchequer a million quid.
The only reason you should resent DOBs bid is if he used some undue influence to prevent others from bidding in competition with him.
If you have that evidence you should present it.
If not...well...

Paging Declan Ganley........

The consortia have alleged fraud, conspiracy, deceit, corruption in relation to the mobile licence award.
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2012/0717/329493-court-allows-esat-digifone-appeal-to-go-ahead/

Little CuChulainn

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

branie2 wrote: »

Ever watch the videos of Gardai attacking protestors?

It's funny that there are so few of them even though it is claimed it happens so often. And the ones that do show Gardaí removing the kid gloves tend to start in the middle of the incident and only show pushing. Funny that.

On the other hand, I have perused the "placename says no" Facebook pages and there are quite a lot of violent people on there who would justify the deployment of Gardaí in numbers. Even if you exclude the more sinister ones that look for Garda home addresses and the ones who outright demand the petrol bombing of stations, there is still a major element who believe that the 100 or so of them represent the country in their belief that storming Garda stations and the Dáil is the only wat forward.

I pity those people who are genuinely involved in peaceful protest, like the 100k+ that marched a few weeks ago, because their message is being obscured by the violent people such as we saw in Coolock.

yopy

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I pity those people who are genuinely involved in peaceful protest, like the 100k+ that marched a few weeks ago, because their message is being obscured by the violent people such as we saw in Coolock.

I think you have been listening to Varadkar. i don't think any message is being lost due to some violent thugs. Finally the Irish grew a spine and said no. That's the message that should be heard, not.. 'Most of the protesters want to pay for water but they are unhappy with the commuinication'

Larbre34

I do not want to pay for water in any way

I have no strong feelings about this columnist one way or the other, but I feel she has encapsulated the current situation well.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/martina-devlin/sleeping-giant-of-public-opinion-has-awoken-and-now-water-will-wash-away-the-coalition-30722554.html

tayto lover

Larbre34 wrote: »

I have no strong feelings about this columnist one way or the other, but I feel she has encapsulated the current situation well.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/martina-devlin/sleeping-giant-of-public-opinion-has-awoken-and-now-water-will-wash-away-the-coalition-30722554.html

Summed up exactly how I feel. Good article.

Tinkersbell

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Labour obviously aren't fit to be in government and are running scared of a rising Sinn Fein.
The childish comments that they come out with are beneath contempt.
It's some democracy we have when our national chamber is like a play school on a bad day.
Shame on them.

sjb25

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Creative Juices wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/sinn-fein-accused-of-living-the-high-life-in-new-york-30723717.html



I am no SF supporter (yet) but is that not an incredibly childish and stupid thing for Burton to say in the Dáil?

The women is an idiot and thinks she's being smart I seen it live you could see her smerking to herself thinking she's got a great joke going I would have voted labour but not anymore not with her especially maybe voting Sinn Fein not a bad idea anymore would never have before but now I'm thinking of it

My name is URL

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Creative Juices wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/sinn-fein-accused-of-living-the-high-life-in-new-york-30723717.html



I am no SF supporter (yet) but is that not an incredibly childish and stupid thing for Burton to say in the Dáil?

Ms Burton said Gerry Adams [..] then departed for a lavish occasion in the USA where he also regularly goes for medical treatment.

Is it illegal to avail of medical treatment abroad now or something? =/

Burton is all out of stuff to say so she has no other option but to resort to that shite. Thankfully her and her party are finished.

_Kaiser_

I do not want to pay for water in any way

So according to the RTE headlines (and also here) now you won't have your water cut off/reduced if you don't pay up

Minister for the Environment Alan Kelly has said that it is “not realistic” to be “going out and saying you're going to potentially cut off people or reduce the pressure of their water” – but stopped short of ruling it out altogether.

“I feel the day of going out and saying that people’s water is going to be cut off or reduced to a trickle is over, and I’d like to say that to people across the country, I don’t think it’s realistic to be going around saying that.

“We want people to comply, obviously, we want people to engage with Irish Water, we want them to become customers of Irish Water.

It really is just farcical and embarrassing now - they really just need to stop digging at this stage.

moxin

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's funny that there are so few of them even though it is claimed it happens so often. And the ones that do show Gardaí removing the kid gloves tend to start in the middle of the incident and only show pushing. Funny that.

On the other hand, I have perused the "placename says no" Facebook pages and there are quite a lot of violent people on there who would justify the deployment of Gardaí in numbers. Even if you exclude the more sinister ones that look for Garda home addresses and the ones who outright demand the petrol bombing of stations, there is still a major element who believe that the 100 or so of them represent the country in their belief that storming Garda stations and the Dáil is the only wat forward.

I pity those people who are genuinely involved in peaceful protest, like the 100k+ that marched a few weeks ago, because their message is being obscured by the violent people such as we saw in Coolock.

Here you go, this is why the crowd got upset at the Gardai in Santry and then Coolock where the arrested were brought to. One Garda, yes one made it his day to push women to the ground. Look at the start at what the other Garda did to the pensioner(pink top) into the footpath, imagine that being your mother. That was uncalled for, push them away instead, don't knock them to the ground like that. They made the situation worse as some of those women have relatives who got upset at their treatment.

The media claimed 100 outside Coolock, it looked like a few hundred at that hour of night and at short notice. Coolock wouldn't have happened if the just 2 Gardai at Santry were not all gun ho.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1572295319665736&set=vb.1560345520860716&type=2&theater

And as you are a fond follower of events, you'd know that there was a solidarity protest outside a Waterford Garda station. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=788109721248401&set=vb.100001481407726&type=2&theater

SeaFields

In a slightly unrelated matter, has a thread ever reached the magic 10K posts in after hours?! :eek:

sjb25

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

So according to the RTE headlines (and also here) now you won't have your water cut of if you don't pay up



It really is just farcical and embarrassing now - they really just need to stop digging at this stage.

Exactly weather you do or don't support water charges the whole thing is a clusterfcuk

Rubberchikken

I do not want to pay for water in any way

i wouldn't give my details to IW for 1000 euro a year. they are the greatest bunch of idiots this country has seen and that's saying something.

Banjo String

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's funny that there are so few of them even though it is claimed it happens so often. And the ones that do show Gardaí removing the kid gloves tend to start in the middle of the incident and only show pushing. Funny that.

On the other hand, I have perused the "placename says no" Facebook pages and there are quite a lot of violent people on there who would justify the deployment of Gardaí in numbers. Even if you exclude the more sinister ones that look for Garda home addresses and the ones who outright demand the petrol bombing of stations, there is still a major element who believe that the 100 or so of them represent the country in their belief that storming Garda stations and the Dáil is the only wat forward.

I pity those people who are genuinely involved in peaceful protest, like the 100k+ that marched a few weeks ago, because their message is being obscured by the violent people such as we saw in Coolock.

In fairness the videos of "thugs attacking the gardai" are few and far between also, like wise any charges or convictions or assault or criminal damage.

SEPT 23 1989

out of desperation they will announce Revenue will be asked to collect this and then there will poll tax riot situations on the streets

Banjo String

I do not want to pay for water in any way

SeaFields wrote: »

In a slightly unrelated matter, has a thread ever reached the magic 10K posts in after hours?! :eek:

Yes, the Household Charge / property tax I believe went round the clock (twice I think)

Also trivial things that annoy you is now on part 47 or something.

Tinkersbell

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Rubberchikken wrote: »

i wouldn't give my details to IW for 1000 euro a year. they are the greatest bunch of idiots this country has seen and that's saying something.

Have to say that I agree with you.
I have my application pack on the kitchen table and I was going to return it, but after what we've seen from irish water and the threats and backtracking from government, combined with a mainstream and social media onslaught on mostly decent and hardworking people who've just had enough, I'm not going to get involved.
If they want me, they can find me and I'll take it from there.

Little CuChulainn

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

moxin wrote: »

Here you go, this is why the crowd got upset at the Gardai in Santry and then Coolock where the arrested were brought to. One Garda, yes one made it his day to push women to the ground. Look at the start at what the other Garda did to the pensioner(pink top) into the footpath, imagine that being your mother. That was uncalled for, push them away instead, don't knock them to the ground like that. They made the situation worse as some of those women have relatives who got upset at their treatment.

The media claimed 100 outside Coolock, it looked like a few hundred at that hour of night and at short notice. Coolock wouldn't have happened if the just 2 Gardai at Santry were not all gun ho.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1572295319665736&set=vb.1560345520860716&type=2&theater

And as you are a fond follower of events, you'd know that there was a solidarity protest outside a Waterford Garda station. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=788109721248401&set=vb.100001481407726&type=2&theater

Saw the video already. You might think it's not necessary to push people out of the way but it's that or let them attack the Taoiseachs car. If you are going to be involved in that kind of activity then you can't complain about the inevitable consequence.

pitero1

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Have to say that I agree with you.
I have my application pack on the kitchen table and I was going to return it, but after what we've seen from irish water and the threats and backtracking from government, combined with a mainstream and social media onslaught on mostly decent and hardworking people who've just had enough, I'm not going to get involved.
If they want me, they can find me and I'll take it from there.

I filled that f****n form yesterday:( how they gonna work it out now? Some people fill the form, some don't. I'll be pist off if I will get the bill and my neighbour not!

moxin

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Saw the video already. You might think it's not necessary to push people out of the way but it's that or let them attack the Taoiseachs car. If you are going to be involved in that kind of activity then you can't complain about the inevitable consequence.

I never said that, you are deliberately deflecting and misleading us. I said

" That was uncalled for, push them away instead, don't knock them to the ground like that."

Do not knock pensioners and young women to the ground! Those 2 Gardai made the situation alot worse, I wonder what training if any they had in crowd control.

S.O

Another U turn.

Minister for the Environment Alan Kelly has said he does not want householders to have their water pressure cut off or reduced if they do not pay their charges.

Mr Kelly said it is not realistic to say that it will happen and that such comments were never helpful and should never have been made.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1106/657233-irish-water/

Little CuChulainn

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

moxin wrote: »

I never said that, you are deliberately deflecting and misleading us. I said

" That was uncalled for, push them away instead, don't knock them to the ground like that."

Do not knock pensioners and young women to the ground! Those 2 Gardai made the situation alot worse, I wonder what training if any they had in crowd control.

All of them were pushed. nobody was hit, no batons were used. That wasn't a crowd control situation. You can't physically control a crowd that size with 4 or 5 Gardaí.

moxin

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

All of them were pushed. nobody was hit, no batons were used. That wasn't a crowd control situation. You can't physically control a crowd that size with 4 or 5 Gardaí.

They were pushed to the ground with one pensioner pushed onto the ground of the footpath from the roadway. Are you proud of that?

Little CuChulainn

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

moxin wrote: »

They were pushed to the ground with one pensioner pushed onto the ground of the footpath from the roadway.

Make up your mind. Where they pushed or not?

moxin wrote: »

" That was uncalled for, push them away instead, don't knock them to the ground like that."

moxin wrote: »

Are you proud of that?

Why would I be proud?

sjb25

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

moxin wrote: »

They were pushed to the ground with one pensioner pushed onto the ground of the footpath from the roadway. Are you proud of that?

They got pushed and lost balance and fell the gaurd didn't grab them and throw them on the ground what do you think the gardai should have done stand there and say please stop that

gladrags

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Labour obviously aren't fit to be in government and are running scared of a rising Sinn Fein.
The childish comments that they come out with are beneath contempt.
It's some democracy we have when our national chamber is like a play school on a bad day.
Shame on them.

The corrupt establishment is reeling.

The only way they can restore their smug corrupt culture,and restoring the status quo,is to blindly smear SF.

Banjo String

I do not want to pay for water in any way

They really will try anything it seems.

IN A final desperate bid to entice homeowners to send in their details, Irish Water has announced they will give a free Love/Hate box set in time for Christmas to all new customers who sign up before November 30th.

Company director John Teirney told WWN today that the box set will include the latest season, which is due to end this Sunday evening.
“We have already seen a massive increase in new sign ups this morning,” he claimed. “It will make a great gift for anyone one who hasn’t seen it and comes at a retail price of €59.99.”

News of the freebie came just hours after a violent protest outside Coolock Garda station last night where hundreds of angry protesters began shouting in an aggressive manor towards the building. This was believed to have been the follow on from an earlier protest at Santry Sports Club in Northwood, where Taoiseach Enda Kenny was attending an opening.

“The daft bastards don’t get it yet,” explained one protester. “No one is going to pay this charge and they are not listening to peaceful protests. Unfortunately, it is time to step it up a gear and start making some noise.”

Yesterday, the High Court granted an order setting up a 20-metre exclusion zone around water meter installations, which, when enforced could see people evacuated from their homes if they fall under the radius range.

“My house is ten meters from the mains outside so when they come to install it I have to move to the back garden.” said one man. “What if it’s raining or something? I’ll have to watch me Love/Hate Boxset through the back window. It’s an absolute disgrace.”

Full details here.
Love/Hate bribe

Creative Juices

Why is the December 10th Irish Water protest not nationwide like the last one?
I like to avoid Dublin wherever possible.

moxin

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Make up your mind. Where they pushed or not?

Oh, still deflecting, pretending you cannot read posts, keep digging. They were pushed to the ground.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Why would I be proud?

Are you proud of the Garda pushing the pensioner to the ground?

sjb25

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Creative Juices wrote: »

Why is the December 10th Irish Water protest not nationwide like the last one?
I like to avoid Dublin wherever possible.

I'd say going for a big concentration of people

branie2

Banjo String wrote: »

They really will try anything it seems.


Full details here.
Love/Hate bribe

make it a Star Trek Blu-ray box set and I'm in

shinzon

I do not want to pay for water in any way

S.O wrote: »

Another U turn.



http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1106/657233-irish-water/

All this is is a charm offensive ah sure we shouldn't have done this that and the other thing, tis anything to get you to sign up at this stage, so if there not going to reduce the pressure as a punitive measure that only leaves the courts and revenue

And if they try the revenue trick then they think they have problems now it will be nothing compared to the ****storm if they try that tbh.

Shin