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Extreme cruelty at puc fair.

13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Deranged96


    Magaggie wrote: »
    Why would you "know" this? The upset at people disagreeing with this tradition is hilarious. :D

    It's only someone who doesn't own a pair of wellys that'd look for the reason to Puc Fair and question if its existence is really justified.

    And to be honest I find the "stop the cruelty" crowd hilarious ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Lou.m wrote: »
    I don't see why people are so against a compromise.
    Durrrrr, it's peeeceeeeeeeeee and city!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭Frankie Lee


    The people do not want to give up their pagan beliefs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,187 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Smelly, ornery, beardy bastard of a yoke. Leave him up there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Lou.m wrote: »
    This is the weakest argument. I don't know how serious you are.

    Rural people are quick to accuse others of being prejudiced and using cutesy stereotypes against them but then quick to use the rural stereotype to get out of defending some of the problems unique to their area.
    We are all Irish. Get over it.




    Animals experts have defined it as being distressing. It is not as if we are saying no to the festival. We are simply asking for different ways of treating the goat. I don't see why people are so against a compromise. After all don't they want good pr and to attract more to the festival? Changing and modernizing it is the best way to guard it.

    Link to some impartial ones, And not from a PETA website.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Deranged96 wrote: »
    It's only someone who doesn't own a pair of wellys that'd look for the reason to Puc Fair and question if its existence is really justified.
    Um, yeh. Not owning a pair of wellies means someone's from Dublin. And "only a person who doesn't own a pair" yadda yadda. :confused:
    And to be honest I find the "stop the cruelty" crowd hilarious ;)
    But you know they're right that it's cruel. And cling to all sorts of feebleness to pretend they're not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,386 ✭✭✭✭DDC1990


    Magaggie wrote: »
    Please, this is farcical. You weren't grabbed from your home out of the blue and brought somewhere without a clue what was going on.
    Just admit there's cause for believing this is cruel instead of pretending there isn't. Not liking the truth doesn't change the truth.

    Oh fair enough, goats love heights - so they are just bound to love being suspended in a cage for three days, silly me.
    Of course my argument is farcical, just like the idea that ANYONE knows how a goat feels.

    Would you like to be suspended in a small cage 60ft in the air for 3 days? Probably not.

    Does that mean that the Goat would feel the same? Absolutely not.

    There is the possibility that the goat is terrified, just like there is the possibility that it will love it.

    Why cancel an ancient tradition, for the possibility that the animal may possibly not like it. If there were tangible numbers to suggest that it was cruel and that the animals suffered for the enjoyment of humans, then by all means cancel it. But don't cancel it on a whim.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    DDC1990 wrote: »
    there is the possibility that it will love it.
    You don't really believe that. Obviously the goat is going to be terrified. You just won't admit it because it's an inconvenience.
    I don't particularly care what becomes of the puck fair but the denial is silly. Enjoy it, whatever, but just admit it's cruel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Deranged96


    Lou.m wrote: »
    This is the weakest argument. I don't know how serious you are.

    Rural people are quick to accuse others of being prejudiced and using cutesy stereotypes against them but then quick to use the rural stereotype to get out of defending some of the problems unique to their area.
    We are all Irish. Get over it. .

    Jesus take a chill pill OK?
    It was obviously a light-hearted remark... don't get thick if you can't tell the tone of a post without a smiley ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Magaggie wrote: »
    Um, yeh. Not owning a pair of wellies means someone's from Dublin. And "only a person who doesn't own a pair" yadda yadda. :confused:

    But you know they're right that it's cruel. And cling to all sorts of feebleness to pretend they're not.

    Abattoirs are crueler.

    If I was given a choice of coming back as most of Ireland's livestock or fauna ( excluding pets) I'd take a chance at goat near killorglin rather than cow near Dublin.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Magaggie wrote: »
    You don't really believe that. Obviously the goat is going to be terrified. You just won't admit it because it's an inconvenience.
    I don't particularly care what becomes of the puck fair but the denial is silly. Enjoy it, whatever, but just admit it's cruel.

    Again how do you know this ? Are people here able to do the ancient art of the goat mind meld ? Stating “terrified” over and over still does not make it any more true than the first time it was said.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,386 ✭✭✭✭DDC1990


    Magaggie wrote: »
    You don't really believe that. Obviously the goat is going to be terrified. You just won't admit it because it's an inconvenience.
    I don't particularly care what becomes of the puck fair but the denial is silly. Enjoy it, whatever, but just admit it's cruel.
    I've seen a dog puke, lick it up and love it.

    Why is it beyond the realms of possibility that a Goat wouldn't like being suspended above a town in Kerry?

    Animals can do bizarre things, and like/dislike bizarre things :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Deranged96


    Magaggie wrote: »
    U
    But you know they're right that it's cruel. And cling to all sorts of feebleness to pretend they're not.

    Of course it's cruel. It causes discomfort to the animal. I really don't care though because I value the good it brings to the people financially and otherwise more than the discomfort of a goat.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Deranged96 wrote: »
    Of course it's cruel. It causes discomfort to the animal. I really don't care though because I value the good it brings to the people financial and otherwise more than the discomfort of a goat.
    Good stuff. Thanks for admitting. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Deranged96 wrote: »
    Of course it's cruel. It causes discomfort to the animal. I really don't care though because I value the good it brings to the people financially and otherwise more than the discomfort of a goat.

    What discomfort would that be ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 416 ✭✭Rips


    He looks naff in his scaffolding tower at any rate, they'd be much better off building him a proper permanent enclosure, his bronze counterpart looks like he has prime real estate.

    I very much doubt the goat would be bothered about being 60ft above the revelry, I expect he'd be better off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Deranged96


    What discomfort would that be ?

    Wild Goats are nervous of people, that's why they struggle to catch a good one the odd year.
    The unlucky goat is in close contact with people, hence discomfort.
    But don't make me sound like I'm against Puc fair....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Rips wrote: »
    I very much doubt the goat would be bothered about being 60ft above the revelry
    Why do you doubt this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    And? Does it excuse cruelty to something that has feeling ?

    Well if it makes you feel any better they usually can make a good drum too, dum ticka dum ticka dum ticka dunk!

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Magaggie wrote: »
    Why do you doubt this?

    Because goats climb mountains, Hills higher than 60ft.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Magaggie wrote: »
    Why would you "know" this? The upset at people disagreeing with this tradition is hilarious. :D

    I don't think it's so much the disagreeing that bothers them, moreso the hysterical way that some people frame it. Ok, maybe it is a bit cruel to the goat initially but he is well looked after and released into the wild again after the festival. (I don't speak goat but I doubt very much King Puck is going to be irreparably traumatised for the rest of his life over this). It's understandable why some might not agree with the tradition but it's also understandable for those that do to be annoyed by people talking rubbish about "extreme cruelty" and about festival attendees being "inbreds" and "braying masses".

    I've never gone to Puck Fair myself btw but when I explained what it was to some friends of mine in the UK (how the topic came up I can't remeber) they all thought it was brilliant and said they'd have to go some day!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Abattoirs are crueler.

    If I was given a choice of coming back as most of Ireland's livestock or fauna ( excluding pets) I'd take a chance at goat near killorglin rather than cow near Dublin.
    I'm not seeing how something being crueler changes that this is also cruel?

    And again, I'm not trying to stop the tradition - just asking for a bit of honesty.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Deranged96 wrote: »
    Wild Goats are nervous of people, that's why they struggle to catch a good one the odd year.
    The unlucky goat is in close contact with people, hence discomfort.
    But don't make me sound like I'm against Puc fair....

    True, but once its up on the scaffolding away from the people I'm sure it then does not care.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Because goats climb mountains, Hills higher than 60ft.
    Huge difference between electing to climb a mountain, and being forced into a cage and suspended at that height.
    This is the kind of dishonesty I'm talking about. False equivalence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,070 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    I mean maybe it's cruel in some ways but 'extreme cruelty' is pushing it a bit


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Magaggie wrote: »
    Huge difference between electing to climb a mountain, and being forced into a cage and suspended at that height.
    This is the kind of dishonesty I'm talking about. False equivalence.

    Jesus, So now your saying the goat knows what incarceration is ? And i thought it was on scaffolding ? You can try use all the logic you can on this, But the goat is not a person and does not have people feelings. Once it realises its in no danger it will be fine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    I mean maybe it's cruel in some ways but 'extreme cruelty' is pushing it a bit
    I'd agree, but it's definitely cruel in some ways as you say.
    I love the way people who say "You can't know how it feels" are silently saying that they DO know how it feels. :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Magaggie wrote: »
    I'd agree, but it's definitely cruel in some ways as you say.
    I love the way people who say "You can't know how it feels" are silently saying that they DO know how it feels. :pac:

    Nope, I don't anthropomorphise animals that's why.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As soon as science invents some sort of doohickey that allows us to converse with animals, we can ask King Puck to tell us how he feels about the whole thing and end this argument once and for all.

    If that's not worth investing billions of euro into, I don't know what is. IRCSET, take note! :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Nope, I don't anthropomorphise animals that's why.
    Yeh, real sophisticated and superior, but animals do feel fear. Sure, it's silly to treat them as exactly like humans but it's just denial/dishonesty to claim they have absolutely no feelings.
    You only have to observe the way a domesticated dog behaves towards its owners to realise it experiences excitement, happiness, contentment, upset.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,070 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Magaggie wrote: »
    I'd agree, but it's definitely cruel in some ways as you say.
    I love the way people who say "You can't know how it feels" are silently saying that they DO know how it feels. :pac:

    It's one of those things that can neither be condoned nor condemned without a fair bit of hypocrisy coming into play.

    Locking an animal in a cage for three days because of tradition is kinda bad.. but slaughtering millions because we like the taste of them isn't much better.

    I know comparing the two is fallacious, but fallacies are sometimes the most logical way to look at things objectively.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 416 ✭✭Rips


    Magaggie wrote: »
    Huge difference between electing to climb a mountain, and being forced into a cage and suspended at that height.
    This is the kind of dishonesty I'm talking about. False equivalence.

    I don't disagree that the goat should have a proper enclosure, rather then a cage, but I don't actually believe the height of the enclosure is an issue.

    'suspended 60ft is the air' is just inflammatory language, sounds like PETA's influence alright, he's not actually 'suspended' after all. Detracting from the real issue, where a perfectly suitable alternative arrangement could be made to facilitate this tradition.

    One of the reasons they climb is to avoid predation, so the goat would probably actually feel more secure up at a height. Especially in that environment with crowds and noise.

    If you put him in an enclosure with a tall climbing feature in it, I could almost guarantee you he'd stand on the top of it, that's what goats do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Deranged96


    Rips wrote: »
    I don't disagree that the goat should have a proper enclosure, rather then a cage, but I don't actually believe the height of the enclosure is an issue.

    'suspended 60ft is the air' is just inflammatory language, sounds like PETA's influence alright, he's not actually 'suspended' after all. Detracting from the real issue, where a perfectly suitable alternative arrangement could be made to facilitate this tradition.

    One of the reasons they climb is to avoid predation, so the goat would probably actually feel more secure up at a height. Especially in that environment with crowds and noise.

    If you put him in an enclosure with a tall climbing feature in it, I could almost guarantee you he'd stand on the top of it, that's what goats do.

    Jesus Mags how'll you come back from that one? :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Magaggie wrote: »
    Yeh, real sophisticated and superior, but animals do feel fear. Sure, it's silly to treat them as exactly like humans but it's just denial/dishonesty to claim they have absolutely no feelings.
    You only have to observe the way a domesticated dog behaves towards its owners to realise it experiences excitement, happiness, contentment, upset.

    How do you know what the animal equivalent of fear is ? Fear is a human term used and invented by us. People are making out that their "Fear" is a kin to sense of immanent doom impending death like the moments before you are killed. Animals fear predation, In the wild zebras run from lions, one is eaten a few hundred meters away. Other zebras go back to grazing few mins later after this and watch the other zebra being eaten.

    The goat is 60ft in the air well away from the predators, I'm sure its feeling quite indifferent to the situation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭Packrat


    Lia_lia wrote: »
    Yeah it's bloody stupid. I'm from Kerry and I've been saying this since I was a kid. I don't know why they still do it.

    Puck is crap anyway.

    Puck is not crap. You're just a blow-in who doesent get it.
    I am from Dublin, however I'm not upset, just very confused.

    Clearly.



    Silly season thread is silly.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 416 ✭✭Steppenwolfe


    Deranged96 wrote: »
    Of course it's cruel. It causes discomfort to the animal. I really don't care though because I value the good it brings to the people financially and otherwise more than the discomfort of a goat.


    That's the bottom line right there. An animals suffering means nothing as long as there's a few bob or a bit of craic to be had. You and your ilk disgust me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    That's the bottom line right there. An animals suffering means nothing as long as there's a few bob or a bit of craic to be had. You and you ilk disgust me.

    Really, So I'm sure the homeless people you are walking over in towns make you feel really bad to ? Do you donate money to them when they are begging to help them out ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Deranged96


    That's the bottom line right there. An animals suffering means nothing as long as there's a few bob or a bit of craic to be had. You and your ilk disgust me.

    Come off your high horse will ya?
    (If you don't find it inhumane to be on him in the first place)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 416 ✭✭Steppenwolfe


    Really, So I'm sure the homeless people you are walking over in towns make you feel really bad to ? Do you donate money to them when they are begging to help them out ?


    Whether I do or not is immaterial. Tormenting wild animals for fun is indefensible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 432 ✭✭TGJD


    That's the bottom line right there. An animals suffering means nothing as long as there's a few bob or a bit of craic to be had. You and your ilk disgust me.

    I assume you don't eat meat, keep pets, drink milk, wear leather, or any such disgusting acts? Theres a joke there involving a bodypart and a donkey too but I don't want to be offensive. Despite the inflammatory language already used in this thread.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Dapics


    It's a fúckín goat. I'm sure he was fine after it.

    I'm all for animal welfare when it comes to dogs and horses.

    But all this outrage over a goat?

    Good luck t'ya.

    All these dafties from the capital should spend a weekend out in the middle of Mayo, Galway or Tipperary. Might give them some perspective.
    I suppose the donkey derby is animal cruelty as well?

    Be asking for a paddlin'.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Whether I do or not is immaterial. Tormenting wild animals for fun is indefensible.

    wow, I did not realise the animal was being tormented. You have a link or pictures to this ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 416 ✭✭Steppenwolfe


    Deranged96 wrote: »
    Come off your high horse will ya?
    (If you don't find it inhumane to be on him in the first place)

    We obviously have a different mind set. Sadly there are too many like you who will just never get it. The majority rules so carry on with your fun.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Packrat wrote: »
    Puck is not crap. You're just a blow-in who doesent get it.



    Clearly.



    Silly season thread is silly.
    Sparkling post - utterly drips with insightfulness.
    What some of the "Ye city folk don't understand our ways" crowd just need to do is admit it's cruel. That's all. Nobody's taking away their puck fair. (I'm from a countryish area too - it's not far from a city but it still has fields and forests; don't be thinking it's only city folk who see the cruelty in this tradition).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 416 ✭✭Steppenwolfe


    wow, I did not realise the animal was being tormented. You have a link or pictures to this ?

    You're talking shyte and you know it. Anybody with half a brain and an ounce of empathy knows what's going on here. I'm done conversing with you callous bastards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Dapics


    You're talking shyte and you know it. Anybody with half a brain and an ounce of empathy knows what's going on here. I'm done conversing with you callous bastards.

    It's alright.

    You have nothing to worry about. I'm fairly certain there are no goats in ballsbridge.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    You're talking shyte and you know it. Anybody with half a brain and an ounce of empathy knows what's going on here. I'm done conversing with you callous bastards.

    You know what that word means yes ? how can I try and feel the same as the goat its not a human or a person ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 894 ✭✭✭septictank


    Been to puck a few times and have seen when the king is brought down at night time, never seamed to bother the goat, he just walked away with the handler, no problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Deranged96


    You're talking shyte and you know it. Anybody with half a brain and an ounce of empathy knows what's going on here. I'm done conversing with you callous bastards.

    yet you're the only one who has resorted to such language...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,238 ✭✭✭✭Diabhal Beag


    That goat racially abused me about 15 years ago. Pure scum.


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