Extreme cruelty at puc fair.

Magaggie

Magaggie wrote: »

Why would you "know" this? The upset at people disagreeing with this tradition is hilarious.

I don't think it's so much the disagreeing that bothers them, moreso the hysterical way that some people frame it. Ok, maybe it is a bit cruel to the goat initially but he is well looked after and released into the wild again after the festival. (I don't speak goat but I doubt very much King Puck is going to be irreparably traumatised for the rest of his life over this). It's understandable why some might not agree with the tradition but it's also understandable for those that do to be annoyed by people talking rubbish about "extreme cruelty" and about festival attendees being "inbreds" and "braying masses".

I've never gone to Puck Fair myself btw but when I explained what it was to some friends of mine in the UK (how the topic came up I can't remeber) they all thought it was brilliant and said they'd have to go some day!

Shakespeare's Sister

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Abattoirs are crueler.

If I was given a choice of coming back as most of Ireland's livestock or fauna ( excluding pets) I'd take a chance at goat near killorglin rather than cow near Dublin.

I'm not seeing how something being crueler changes that this is also cruel?

And again, I'm not trying to stop the tradition - just asking for a bit of honesty.

darkpagandeath

Deranged96 wrote: »

Wild Goats are nervous of people, that's why they struggle to catch a good one the odd year.
The unlucky goat is in close contact with people, hence discomfort.
But don't make me sound like I'm against Puc fair....

True, but once its up on the scaffolding away from the people I'm sure it then does not care.

Shakespeare's Sister

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Because goats climb mountains, Hills higher than 60ft.

Huge difference between electing to climb a mountain, and being forced into a cage and suspended at that height.
This is the kind of dishonesty I'm talking about. False equivalence.

My name is URL

I mean maybe it's cruel in some ways but 'extreme cruelty' is pushing it a bit

darkpagandeath

Magaggie wrote: »

Huge difference between electing to climb a mountain, and being forced into a cage and suspended at that height.
This is the kind of dishonesty I'm talking about. False equivalence.

Jesus, So now your saying the goat knows what incarceration is ? And i thought it was on scaffolding ? You can try use all the logic you can on this, But the goat is not a person and does not have people feelings. Once it realises its in no danger it will be fine.

Shakespeare's Sister

My name is URL wrote: »

I mean maybe it's cruel in some ways but 'extreme cruelty' is pushing it a bit

I'd agree, but it's definitely cruel in some ways as you say.
I love the way people who say "You can't know how it feels" are silently saying that they DO know how it feels. :pac:

darkpagandeath

Magaggie wrote: »

I'd agree, but it's definitely cruel in some ways as you say.
I love the way people who say "You can't know how it feels" are silently saying that they DO know how it feels. :pac:

Nope, I don't anthropomorphise animals that's why.

As soon as science invents some sort of doohickey that allows us to converse with animals, we can ask King Puck to tell us how he feels about the whole thing and end this argument once and for all.

If that's not worth investing billions of euro into, I don't know what is. IRCSET, take note!

Shakespeare's Sister

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Nope, I don't anthropomorphise animals that's why.

Yeh, real sophisticated and superior, but animals do feel fear. Sure, it's silly to treat them as exactly like humans but it's just denial/dishonesty to claim they have absolutely no feelings.
You only have to observe the way a domesticated dog behaves towards its owners to realise it experiences excitement, happiness, contentment, upset.

My name is URL

Magaggie wrote: »

I'd agree, but it's definitely cruel in some ways as you say.
I love the way people who say "You can't know how it feels" are silently saying that they DO know how it feels. :pac:

It's one of those things that can neither be condoned nor condemned without a fair bit of hypocrisy coming into play.

Locking an animal in a cage for three days because of tradition is kinda bad.. but slaughtering millions because we like the taste of them isn't much better.

I know comparing the two is fallacious, but fallacies are sometimes the most logical way to look at things objectively.

Rips

Magaggie wrote: »

Huge difference between electing to climb a mountain, and being forced into a cage and suspended at that height.
This is the kind of dishonesty I'm talking about. False equivalence.

I don't disagree that the goat should have a proper enclosure, rather then a cage, but I don't actually believe the height of the enclosure is an issue.

'suspended 60ft is the air' is just inflammatory language, sounds like PETA's influence alright, he's not actually 'suspended' after all. Detracting from the real issue, where a perfectly suitable alternative arrangement could be made to facilitate this tradition.

One of the reasons they climb is to avoid predation, so the goat would probably actually feel more secure up at a height. Especially in that environment with crowds and noise.

If you put him in an enclosure with a tall climbing feature in it, I could almost guarantee you he'd stand on the top of it, that's what goats do.

Deranged96

Rips wrote: »

I don't disagree that the goat should have a proper enclosure, rather then a cage, but I don't actually believe the height of the enclosure is an issue.

'suspended 60ft is the air' is just inflammatory language, sounds like PETA's influence alright, he's not actually 'suspended' after all. Detracting from the real issue, where a perfectly suitable alternative arrangement could be made to facilitate this tradition.

One of the reasons they climb is to avoid predation, so the goat would probably actually feel more secure up at a height. Especially in that environment with crowds and noise.

If you put him in an enclosure with a tall climbing feature in it, I could almost guarantee you he'd stand on the top of it, that's what goats do.

Jesus Mags how'll you come back from that one? :pac:

darkpagandeath

Magaggie wrote: »

Yeh, real sophisticated and superior, but animals do feel fear. Sure, it's silly to treat them as exactly like humans but it's just denial/dishonesty to claim they have absolutely no feelings.
You only have to observe the way a domesticated dog behaves towards its owners to realise it experiences excitement, happiness, contentment, upset.

How do you know what the animal equivalent of fear is ? Fear is a human term used and invented by us. People are making out that their "Fear" is a kin to sense of immanent doom impending death like the moments before you are killed. Animals fear predation, In the wild zebras run from lions, one is eaten a few hundred meters away. Other zebras go back to grazing few mins later after this and watch the other zebra being eaten.

The goat is 60ft in the air well away from the predators, I'm sure its feeling quite indifferent to the situation.

Packrat

Lia_lia wrote: »

Yeah it's bloody stupid. I'm from Kerry and I've been saying this since I was a kid. I don't know why they still do it.

Puck is crap anyway.

Puck is not crap. You're just a blow-in who doesent get it.

artanevilla wrote: »

I am from Dublin, however I'm not upset, just very confused.

Clearly.



Silly season thread is silly.

Steppenwolfe

Deranged96 wrote: »

Of course it's cruel. It causes discomfort to the animal. I really don't care though because I value the good it brings to the people financially and otherwise more than the discomfort of a goat.

That's the bottom line right there. An animals suffering means nothing as long as there's a few bob or a bit of craic to be had. You and your ilk disgust me.

darkpagandeath

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

That's the bottom line right there. An animals suffering means nothing as long as there's a few bob or a bit of craic to be had. You and you ilk disgust me.

Really, So I'm sure the homeless people you are walking over in towns make you feel really bad to ? Do you donate money to them when they are begging to help them out ?

Deranged96

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

That's the bottom line right there. An animals suffering means nothing as long as there's a few bob or a bit of craic to be had. You and your ilk disgust me.

Come off your high horse will ya?
(If you don't find it inhumane to be on him in the first place)

Steppenwolfe

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Really, So I'm sure the homeless people you are walking over in towns make you feel really bad to ? Do you donate money to them when they are begging to help them out ?

Whether I do or not is immaterial. Tormenting wild animals for fun is indefensible.

TGJD

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

That's the bottom line right there. An animals suffering means nothing as long as there's a few bob or a bit of craic to be had. You and your ilk disgust me.

I assume you don't eat meat, keep pets, drink milk, wear leather, or any such disgusting acts? Theres a joke there involving a bodypart and a donkey too but I don't want to be offensive. Despite the inflammatory language already used in this thread.

Dapics

It's a fúckín goat. I'm sure he was fine after it.

I'm all for animal welfare when it comes to dogs and horses.

But all this outrage over a goat?

Good luck t'ya.

All these dafties from the capital should spend a weekend out in the middle of Mayo, Galway or Tipperary. Might give them some perspective.
I suppose the donkey derby is animal cruelty as well?

Be asking for a paddlin'.

darkpagandeath

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

Whether I do or not is immaterial. Tormenting wild animals for fun is indefensible.

wow, I did not realise the animal was being tormented. You have a link or pictures to this ?

Steppenwolfe

Deranged96 wrote: »

Come off your high horse will ya?
(If you don't find it inhumane to be on him in the first place)

We obviously have a different mind set. Sadly there are too many like you who will just never get it. The majority rules so carry on with your fun.

Shakespeare's Sister

Packrat wrote: »

Puck is not crap. You're just a blow-in who doesent get it.



Clearly.



Silly season thread is silly.

Sparkling post - utterly drips with insightfulness.
What some of the "Ye city folk don't understand our ways" crowd just need to do is admit it's cruel. That's all. Nobody's taking away their puck fair. (I'm from a countryish area too - it's not far from a city but it still has fields and forests; don't be thinking it's only city folk who see the cruelty in this tradition).

Steppenwolfe

darkpagandeath wrote: »

wow, I did not realise the animal was being tormented. You have a link or pictures to this ?

You're talking shyte and you know it. Anybody with half a brain and an ounce of empathy knows what's going on here. I'm done conversing with you callous bastards.

Dapics

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

You're talking shyte and you know it. Anybody with half a brain and an ounce of empathy knows what's going on here. I'm done conversing with you callous bastards.

It's alright.

You have nothing to worry about. I'm fairly certain there are no goats in ballsbridge.

darkpagandeath

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

You're talking shyte and you know it. Anybody with half a brain and an ounce of empathy knows what's going on here. I'm done conversing with you callous bastards.

You know what that word means yes ? how can I try and feel the same as the goat its not a human or a person ?

septictank

Been to puck a few times and have seen when the king is brought down at night time, never seamed to bother the goat, he just walked away with the handler, no problem.

Deranged96

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

You're talking shyte and you know it. Anybody with half a brain and an ounce of empathy knows what's going on here. I'm done conversing with you callous bastards.

yet you're the only one who has resorted to such language...

Diabhal Beag

That goat racially abused me about 15 years ago. Pure scum.