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Gerry Conlon has died

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Comments

  • #302
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    realies wrote: »
    But Fred is this thread not about an innocent young man whose life was destroyed by so called brittish justice ? The man has died let him rest in peace, you can start another thread about the PIRA campaign when your ready.

    Then why is it being turned into a republican PR stunt?


  • #303
    Lastlight.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 203 ✭✭Lastlight.


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    I did. If you had any sort of a brain, you'd see that that isn't the same analogy. First of all "Brits out" is a reference to the removal of the British establishment from 6 counties in Ireland, whereas "No Irish" signs are discriminating against individuals

    Secondly, when did you decide to change the goal posts? Wasn't it about tolerance levels between the Irish and English? But it's "British" now all of a sudden? They are completely different things. Not all Brits are English, didn't you know? Nothing to do with tolerance levels towards the English.

    So going on the above, we can agree that the Irish were more tolerant towards the English than vice versa, as we never had any "No English" signs?
    What a load of absolute nonsense. Go tell that to the Ulster Protestants who had to fight for liberty for decades against PIRA aggression.

    Most Protestants know what the Brits out referenced.


  • #304
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Then why is it being turned into a republican PR stunt?

    Maybe it's because Gerry conlon was a republican after he got out of prison,and in his death this is being acknowledged by his many supporters,and may I point out that it's his distractors who derailed this thread with the usual anti everything Irish/republican/nationalist .


  • #305
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    old hippy wrote: »
    I don't have a cosy view of Irish victimhood. Ask any of the regular posters on any thread about NI/the troubles/Nationalism etc & they'll tell you I'm not a patriot or one that lobs frequent attacks at "de Brits". I have no truck with Republicanism at all.

    That said; to try and belittle the conspiracy against Gerry Conlon and other innocent Irish people is a mark of desperation on your part.

    Time to man up. You could have posted a thread full of your insinuations and ugly sentiment but you chose a platform - the death of an innocent man - to get your failed points across.

    Jesus, what did I do to you? Insinuations? Ugly sentiment? Using the death of an innocent man?
    Last time for the slow learner - it was a horrible injustice. I am deeply saddened by the poor mans death. I remember the whole sorry saga with anger.
    I just hate when such events are used to portray the British as hate filled ant-Irish racists...because I have generally found that not to be the case.
    Is that so ugly or offensive?


  • #306
    meathstevie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,778 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Oh, ok, so the fact the bomb was planted by the IRISH republican army was irrelevant. The bombers could have been Norwegians, or Pakistani for all we know.

    As a matter of fact yes, the bombers could have been anyone. Could have been English born or Danish or Cypriot or Kenian or whatever because it's never been proven who planted the device. The only thing that has been established is that the police was guilty of perjury at the best, obstructing the course of justice and misconduct in public office and conspiring to do all of the above.


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  • #307
    meathstevie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,778 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Lastlight. wrote: »
    What a load of absolute nonsense. Go tell that to the Ulster Protestants who had to fight for liberty for decades against PIRA aggression.

    Most Protestants know what the Brits out referenced.

    Lastlight, you might want to do a bit of recent historical research on how the troubles started and developed.

    If the Northern Ireland government would have realised the fact that the population of "Ulster" was not only made up of "Protestants" that needed to be represented and looked after the Provo's would have never gotten a breeze of wind in their sails but oh no bigotry had to prevail at all cost and the results are known to the whole wide world.

    In a way and only to a certain extent the "Protestants" to use a flawed label find themselves in a situation similar to white Africans who also are/were the descendants of colonisers and were left in on a sticky wicket when the natives said enough is enough.


  • #308
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    realies wrote: »
    the usual anti everything Irish/republican/nationalist .

    It's truly bizarre. Do other nationalities of people have this issue?


  • #309
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    So he wasn't wrongly charged with a crime, he was convicted of being Irish.

    Riiiight.

    That's my point Fred they were wrongly charged of a crime and they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and they were Irish.


  • #310
    neamhspleachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭neamhspleachi


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    It's truly bizarre. Do other nationalities of people have this issue?
    India/Pakistan

    Another nation divided by religion also propagated by the originators of divide & conquer


  • #311
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    realies wrote: »
    may I point out that it's his distractors who derailed this thread with the usual anti everything Irish/republican/nationalist .
    Exactly. To say this thread was deliberately steered in a hardline republican direction after going otherwise swimmingly is very dishonest.
    First people trolled (well I'm assuming trolled, on the basis that no sane person would really think what they wrote) then people denied there was anti Irish feeling in Britain (which helped to jail the G4 and B6 ffs).


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  • #312
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    meathstevie wrote: »
    As a matter of fact yes, the bombers could have been anyone. Could have been English born or Danish or Cypriot or Kenian or whatever because it's never been proven who planted the device. The only thing that has been established is that the police was guilty of perjury at the best, obstructing the course of justice and misconduct in public office and conspiring to do all of the above.

    Oh, so an ira signature bomb, claimed by the ira could have been planted by someone that wasn't Irish.

    Possible I suppose, but I wonder what odds you'd get on it.


  • #313
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Magaggie wrote: »
    Exactly. To say this thread was deliberately steered in a hardline republican direction after going otherwise swimmingly is very dishonest.
    First people trolled (well I'm assuming trolled, on the basis that no sane person would really think what they wrote) then people denied there was anti Irish feeling in Britain (which helped to jail the G4 and B6 ffs).

    Obviously the Dublin and Monaghan bombs are on topic are they, or is off topic anything you don't like?


  • #314
    Lastlight.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 203 ✭✭Lastlight.


    meathstevie wrote: »
    Lastlight, you might want to do a bit of recent historical research on how the troubles started and developed.

    If the Northern Ireland government would have realised the fact that the population of "Ulster" was not only made up of "Protestants" that needed to be represented and looked after the Provo's would have never gotten a breeze of wind in their sails but oh no bigotry had to prevail at all cost and the results are known to the whole wide world.

    In a way and only to a certain extent the "Protestants" to use a flawed label find themselves in a situation similar to white Africans who also are/were the descendants of colonisers and were left in on a sticky wicket when the natives said enough is enough.
    More myths again. The Brits out was in reference to the supporters of Northern Ireland remaining in the Union, which was Ulster Protestants. You can't get away from that.


  • #315
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Lastlight. wrote: »
    More myths again. The Brits out was in reference to the supporters of Northern Ireland remaining in the Union, which was Ulster Protestants. You can't get away from that.

    The Brits out was aimed at the British soldiers stationed up there, I never took it to mean anything but that.


  • #316
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Oh, so an ira signature bomb, claimed by the ira could have been planted by someone that wasn't Irish.

    Possible I suppose, but I wonder what odds you'd get on it.

    There were two English men jailed for IRA bomb attacks in England


  • #317
    Lastlight.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 203 ✭✭Lastlight.


    realies wrote: »
    The Brits out was aimed at the British soldiers stationed up there, I never took it to mean anything but that.
    Myth. Go ask Protestants having this shouted at them from Republicans across barriers in Ulster.


  • #318
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Oh, so an ira signature bomb, claimed by the ira could have been planted by someone that wasn't Irish.

    Possible I suppose, but I wonder what odds you'd get on it.

    Yes the famous Kenyan pub bombers of the 1970s.....


  • #319
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    There were two English men jailed for IRA bomb attacks in England

    So far then, we have odds of about 1750/1.

    Worth a fiver I guess.


  • #320
    Conall Cernach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,999 ✭✭✭Conall Cernach


    Lastlight. wrote: »
    Myth. Go ask Protestants having this shouted at them from Republicans across barriers in Ulster.
    The original slogan was "British Troops Out" which was naturally shortened to simply "Brits Out".


  • #321
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Obviously the Dublin and Monaghan bombs are on topic are they, or is off topic anything you don't like?
    What? That's a leap based on virtually nothing.
    I said nothing about people going off topic. I was responding to the claim that this thread is a load of provo showboating. It headed in the wrong direction as soon as someone said something about people not having as much sympathy for Gerry Conlon if he were wrongfully convicted of rape.


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  • #322
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Magaggie wrote: »
    What? That's a leap based on virtually nothing.
    I said nothing about people going off topic. I was responding to the claim that this thread is a load of provo showboating. It headed in the wrong direction as soon as someone said something about people not having as much sympathy for Gerry Conlon if he were wrongfully convicted of rape.

    It is showboating though. His conviction was a crime and he has achieved a lot sinse his release, but when posters who claim the bombing of innocent people was a justifiable act of war, then go on to cry foul at innocent people being convicted of crimes they did not commit, you do have to question their motives.

    If, instead of being wrongly convicted of the Guildford pub bomb, Gerry Conlon had been killed in it, these same posters would be defending it.


  • #323
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    It is showboating though. His conviction was a crime and he has achieved a lot sinse his release, but when posters who claim the bombing of innocent people was a justifiable act of war, then go on to cry foul at innocent people being convicted of crimes they did not commit, you do have to question their motives.

    If, instead of being wrongly convicted of the Guildford pub bomb, Gerry Conlon had been killed in it, these same posters would be defending it.


    Still with the vendetta, eh Fred? Classy stuff.


  • #324
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    posters who claim the bombing of innocent people was a justifiable act of war
    Well I certainly don't agree with that. However it isn't fair to lump people who are discussing this miscarriage of justice in with people who hold the above view.
    Sometimes people lump people who simply grew up in nationalist areas of Northern Ireland in with hardline republicans, including Irish people, which is particularly galling.
    It's no different to saying moderate unionists are hardline loyalists.


  • #325
    Lastlight.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 203 ✭✭Lastlight.


    Conall Cernach wrote: »
    The original slogan was "British Troops Out" which was naturally shortened to simply "Brits Out".
    Not the experience of Protestants who got this chanted all the time at them.


  • #326
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    His conviction was a crime

    Was it? Can you please point me in the direction of a rigorous BGov investigation that found the framing and torture of innocent people a crime?

    Where are the criminals who perpetrated this injustice? Are they dying in prison like Giuseppe Conlon did or are they living in a leafy suburb on a generous BGov pension?


  • #327
    on the river
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭on the river


    May Gerry Conlon rest in peace and may he be free and be in absolute paradise.


  • #328
    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Wishiwasa Littlebitaller


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Isn't that like claiming Denzel Washington was discriminated against for not being offered the role of Michael Collins?

    No. Nothing like it. What a trite remark.

    It's reasonable and logical not to offer a black man, the role of a historical white man.

    Are you trying to suggest that it was reasonable and logical to beat and torture Gerry Conlon and his family?

    Would seem like you are.


  • #329
    pO1Neil
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 354 ✭✭pO1Neil


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    Even if there was no negative attitude to the Irish in Britain (there was) it was inevitable that it would arise or increase in the wake of the IRA’s murder campaign.

    And not because of anything peculiar in the British character but because it is how any people would respond. Muslims become radicalised in response to US aggression against them, we burnt down the British embassy in response to bloody Sunday. This is pretty much how all peoples react.

    Anyway, has all pretence that this is an RIP thread now being abandoned?

    We didn't respond like that after Dublin and Monaghan. or the 72 & 73 Dublin bombings. There was no mass anti-British hysteria & we didn't send six innocent English people to jail, even Jack Lynch went on TV saying he suspected elements of the British Int were involved. Although lot of that has to the with the Cosgrave government of the time trying to make people forget about it as fast as possible.


  • #330
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    There's a big difference between identifying the bomb came from an Irish person and grabbing the first Paddy you see and torturing a confession out of him and then ignoring the confessions of those who actually did it.


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  • #331
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Isn't that like claiming Denzel Washington was discriminated against for not being offered the role of Michael Collins?

    Jesus I only saw this nonsense like.

    A black fella robbed my ex's phone last year on Holloway Road and another black woman broke into my flat.

    Do you think the cops would be thus justified in rounding up a few black people and beating the sh*t out of them until thy confessed. Tarring a whole people with the one brush and making them pay for the actions of others is pretty much a key element of racism to be honest.


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