Gerry Conlon has died

Fratton Fred

pO1Neil wrote: »

The Daily Mail in the 1990's called for "Irish people to be banned from UK sporting events and fined for IRA disruption to public transport"

In 2002, English journalist Julie Burchill narrowly escaped prosecution for incitement to racial hatred, following a column in The Guardian where she described Ireland as being synonymous with "child molestation, Nazi-sympathising, and the oppression of women." Burchill had expressed anti-Irish sentiment several times throughout her career, announcing in the London journal Time Out that "I hate the Irish, I think they're appalling".


The press certainly didn't make any difference between the Irish & the IRA and that's not even in the 1970's. But sure go on & keep telling us how high & mighty you English all are.

the Guardian you say, that's well known for its right wing anti Irish views.

Fratton Fred

pO1Neil wrote: »

Unfortunately as long as racist apologists like Fratton Fred are around this type of filth will still flourish.

Racist apologist?

Really sunshine, you are clutching at very short straws there.

pO1Neil

Fratton Fred wrote: »

the Guardian you say, that's well known for its right wing anti Irish views.

And that makes it better because........???

pO1Neil

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Racist apologist?

Really sunshine, you are clutching at very short straws there.

People can see it with their own eyes. It doesn't really need pointing out.

wazky

pO1Neil wrote: »

And that makes it better because........???

It would have to make sense first at least.

Sound of Silence

Fratton's not racist. He might be a lot things, but he's not that.

wazky

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Fratton's not racist. He might be a lot things, but he's not that.

Deluded?

tomwaterford

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Fratton's not racist. He might be a lot things, but he's not that.

hes really Gerry adams out to wind up people on boards:pac::pac:

pO1Neil

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Fratton's not racist. He might be a lot things, but he's not that.

Didn't call him one. Called him a racist apologists. And that I honestly believe he is.

Lapin

pO1Neil wrote: »

Unfortunately as long as racist apologists like Fratton Fred are around this type of filth will still flourish.

If you want some real examples of racism go hang out with some of the older generation Irish ex pats living in the UK.

In my experience living in London the most blatently racist, intolerant, small minded and prejudicial people I have encountered are the Irish.

The latest wave of Irish immigrants are far more enlightened but many of those who moved to London from the 50's up to the 80's were often an embarrassment to be around.

pO1Neil

Lapin wrote: »

If you want some real examples of racism go hang out with some of the older generation Irish ex pats living in the UK.

In my experience living in London the most blatently racist, intolerant, small minded and prejudicial people I have encountered are the Irish.

The latest wave of Irish immigrants are far more enlightened but many of those who moved to London from the 50's up to the 80's were often an embarrassment to be around.

Oh, great thanks.

Madam

Lapin wrote: »

If you want some real examples of racism go hang out with some of the older generation Irish ex pats living in the UK.

In my experience living in London the most blatently racist, intolerant, small minded and prejudicial people I have encountered are the Irish.

The latest wave of Irish immigrants are far more enlightened but many of those who moved to London from the 50's up to the 80's were often an embarrassment to be around.

A generation thing perhaps(or small town mentality)?

Fratton Fred

pO1Neil wrote: »

And that makes it better because........???

Turn your sarcasm detector on. The guardian is renowned for its anti right views.

I couldn't find the article, but I found this. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/12/race.uk

Sound of Silence

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Turn your sarcasm detector on. The guardian is renowned for its anti right views.

I couldn't find the article, but I found this. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/12/race.uk

I assume you're posting this because you agree with it. I could be wrong.

The crux of the authors argument seems to be that Burchill is simply directing her animosity against the corrupt and deplorable Catholic institution, not the Irish people. This might be true for the article they're referring to, but it must be noted that in one of Burchill's very own articles, printed in Time Out, she declared "I hate the Irish, I think they're appalling".

As far as I'm concerned, Julie Burchill is free to say whatever she wants. However, misrepresenting her views to make them seem slightly more palatable, whilst at the same time making those of her opponents seem less so, is just complete editorial garbage. That's without taking into account the misguided attempt at making some sort Nazi connection in the first paragraph. Only a few lines in and he's already wading into the realm of Godwin's law. . .

Regardless, the whole article reeks of collective shaming. I sense that you feel as little a responsibility to apologise for every British transgression as I do for every Irish one.

Shakespeare's Sister

Julie Burchill is a troll and a colossal hypocrite.

Sound of Silence

Magaggie wrote: »

Julie Burchill is a troll and a colossal hypocrite.

As good a foundation as any for a Journalistic career!

Fratton Fred

Sound of Silence wrote: »

I assume you're posting this because you agree with it. I could be wrong.

The crux of the authors argument seems to be that Burchill is simply directing her animosity against the corrupt and deplorable Catholic institution, not the Irish people. This might be true for the article they're referring to, but it must be noted that in one of Burchill's very own articles, printed in Time Out, she declared "I hate the Irish, I think they're appalling".

As far as I'm concerned, Julie Burchill is free to say whatever she wants. However, misrepresenting her views to make them seem slightly more palatable, whilst at the same time making those of her opponents seem less so, is just complete editorial garbage. That's without taking into account the misguided attempt at making some sort Nazi connection in the first paragraph. Only a few lines in and he's already wading into the realm of Godwin's law. . .

Regardless, the whole article reeks of collective shaming. I sense that you feel as little a responsibility to apologise for every British transgression as I do for every Irish one.

Isn't that what P O'Neil is trying to do? (shocking user name by the way).

Drag up a few articles and claim it is the views of an entire nation.

Is Ireland anti Muslim? Is there anti Muslim hysteria here? No, I'd say not, but it would take five minutes to drag up fifty posts of anti Muslim sentiment and claim it is indicitive of the entire country.

LorMal

end of the road wrote: »

such signs outside many businesses in the UK back then

No there weren't . I was there at the time. Have you ANY verifable evidence of this? It's just more if the same old victim mentality that ha held this country back. Allows us to blame others for our troubles.

LorMal

wazky wrote: »

'No blacks, no dogs, no Irish'

Evidence of this being widespread in the UK? ...nah.

LorMal

end of the road wrote: »

wrong, it was as bad at least

How do you know? We're you there then?

LorMal

end of the road wrote: »

if only somebody had the balls to bann that evil vermin rag and its extremist insitement to hatred propaganda

Yes a bit of book burning is what's required....hah

Shakespeare's Sister

There was anti Irish sentiment in the UK (look at the rag press alone), there can be anti British sentiment here.
Both exist - not to a massive extent, but still not nice for those who have experienced them.
It's not a competition, nor is it something to be denied. Becoming fixated on them is certainly not constructive though.

LorMal

Magaggie wrote: »

There was anti Irish sentiment in the UK (look at the rag press alone), there can be anti British sentiment here.
Both exist - not to a massive extent, but still not nice for those who have experienced them.
It's not a competition, nor is it something to be denied. Becoming fixated on them is certainly not constructive though.

I agree that it is not to be fixated on. Its used to justify a lot of nonsense. But, having liveD through the entire troubles in the uk and here, I experienced incredible tolerance from English people and huge goodwill to Irish people generally.
We love to be a victim of imagined hatred. It's part of our national lack of self esteem.
Time to grow up and move on.

Sound of Silence

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Isn't that what P O'Neil is trying to do? (shocking user name by the way).

Drag up a few articles and claim it is the views of an entire nation.

Is Ireland anti Muslim? Is there anti Muslim hysteria here? No, I'd say not, but it would take five minutes to drag up fifty posts of anti Muslim sentiment and claim it is indicitive of the entire country.

I can't exactly remember what article he brought up. Not that any of these articles are relevant to now. It's more about the past.

Whenever you wade into issues of a perceived negative sentiment, it's difficult to rely on anything more than individual stories and, in this case, newspaper articles. The latter at least gives somewhat of a glimpse into the psyche of a certain portion of the population, the attitude of the times.

Think about it. The British people had begun to find themselves on the receiving end of an IRA bombing campaign designed to devastate infrastructure and promote fear in the public, to bring the conflict to the mainland. They were understandably angry, confused and above all scared - fearful that they would find themselves on the receiving end. The violence of Northern Ireland had seemed a world away, a peculiar but disturbing foot note in the news; but here it was knocking on their door, begging to be noticed.

The British tabloids, in a fashion not too disimilar from today, capitalised on the very real mood of fear in the public. Unfortunately, as with today, when discussing the actions of Paramilitaries in such broad strokes it's hard to disassociate the group from the people. Invariably "Irish" became as synonymous with bombing and shooting as "Muslim" is today with radicalism and extremism. The public have trouble disassociating a group with those they profess to represent, and this was most evident in the link I posted earlier to an article in The Guardian. It breeds suspicion and coldness, both of which the Irish community felt during 70's and 80's.

Sound of Silence

LorMal wrote: »

I agree that it is not to be fixated on. Its used to justify a lot of nonsense. But, having liveD through the entire troubles in the uk and here, I experienced incredible tolerance from English people and huge goodwill to Irish people generally.
We love to be a victim of imagined hatred. It's part of our national lack of self esteem.
Time to grow up and move on.

Do you feel that your experiences trump those of others?

As for the accusations of victimhood, you can speak for yourself. It seems as if there can be no discussion of Northern Ireland or the wider Troubles without some myopic poster crashing in and claiming that the entire conflict was born out of a victim mentality. All nonsense.

Your vast generalisations about the Irish people betray you as being just as bad as those you try in vain to argue against.

end of the road

LorMal wrote: »

Time to grow up and move on.

no it isn't, we have grown up

end of the road

Sound of Silence wrote: »

I can't exactly remember what article he brought up. Not that any of these articles are relevant to now. It's more about the past.

Whenever you wade into issues of a perceived negative sentiment, it's difficult to rely on anything more than individual stories and, in this case, newspaper articles. The latter at least gives somewhat of a glimpse into the psyche of a certain portion of the population, the attitude of the times.

Think about it. The British people had begun to find themselves on the receiving end of an IRA bombing campaign designed to devastate infrastructure and promote fear in the public, to bring the conflict to the mainland. They were understandably angry, confused and above all scared - fearful that they would find themselves on the receiving end. The violence of Northern Ireland had seemed a world away, a peculiar but disturbing foot note in the news; but here it was knocking on their door, begging to be noticed.

The British tabloids, in a fashion not too disimilar from today, capitalised on the very real mood of fear in the public. Unfortunately, as with today, when discussing the actions of Paramilitaries in such broad strokes it's hard to disassociate the group from the people. Invariably "Irish" became as synonymous with bombing and shooting as "Muslim" is today with radicalism and extremism. The public have trouble disassociating a group with those they profess to represent, and this was most evident in the link I posted earlier to an article in The Guardian. It breeds suspicion and coldness, both of which the Irish community felt during 70's and 80's.

to me at least the people who read those rags are just angry people in general angry at everyone and everything

Sound of Silence

end of the road wrote: »

to me at least the people who read those rags are just angry people in general angry at everyone and everything

In summary, Daily Mail readers!

Chinasea

LorMal wrote: »

I agree that it is not to be fixated on. Its used to justify a lot of nonsense. But, having liveD through the entire troubles in the uk and here, I experienced incredible tolerance from English people and huge goodwill to Irish people generally.
We love to be a victim of imagined hatred. It's part of our national lack of self esteem.
Time to grow up and move on.

Totally agree. I heard a lady ring the Joe Duffy show or some such show, before the recent 'celebrate all things Irish' at Buckingham palace, and this lady having apparently spent her whole adult life living in the UK, housed, educated, employed, children employed etc., took the opportunity to moan yet again about this sign that once hung, a long long time ago. Not ONCE did she bestow the virtues of her life in the UK but only rang to remind the eager ears of this sign that once hung.

OldRio

It seems the usual suspects have derailed this thread because of their love of Britain.

The re writing of history still abounds I see. 'No blacks, no dogs no Irish' was not prevalent? I was living in England in the 60's and 70's and believe me that sentiment was very much in evidence. That racist element in some peoples thoughts impacted on myself and wider family.

RIP Gerry.