Limerick GAA news/discussion thread

Fireball07 · 08-11-2013 5:26pm

A lot of interesting points made over the past few pages, which I'd like to address at some stage.

You couldn't say last year was a shambles for one, after going 17 years without winning Munster, it was a huge monkey off our backs. Even beating Tipp was something a lot of people wouldn't have expected. Limerick have had a lot of mentality issues in recent years, but winning Munster should give us belief for the future...Allen did turn them into a winning team, we believed we could win the All-Ireland. I know they didn't show up against Clare, they got the preparation for that all wrong... but the fans know, the players know that this team is capable of going the final step... 2013 is a platform we can build on.

As for O'Grady, he did make some questionable calls in charge. Richie McCarthy might play half-forward for Blackrock, but he's not an intercounty standard forward or free-taker. He is a class full-back and should have been played there. Same with Hickey and GOM...... and with TJ Ryan's questionable tactics for the 21s, there is a worry. I hope we can do it...but we need to sort centre-back and centre-forward.

And Cian Lynch is barely 17, he's really talented but there's no way he'll be in the panel when he's still minor. It just won't happen. I'd be surprised to see Coleman or Dempsey either tbh.....even if they are good. Coleman was class for Doon, but never really stood out as much for the minors as Nash, Dempsey, Lynch....both him and Pat Ryan are both skilful players though.

paddy no 11 · 08-11-2013 5:50pm

Here goes, the following is speculation mostly

DO'G left after 1 year because he couldnt get the selectors for year 2 and was having a team foisted on him - he left. His tactics in that time were badly wrong he tried to get us playing a game that was alien in a short time without skillful players and it failed.

Its been said he was offered the job a few weeks ago but declined gain based on the back room team. Now he has taken the job as a (WTF) joint manager.....presumably this is the deal he rejected a few weeks ago and now has accepted against his better judgement? I cant fathom it. He's entering into a deal he knows is wrong.

What has TJ done to merit this selection over lets say Joe quaid? Nothing. Why is he held in such high regard? His history as a manager and a player has not been what you'd call harmonious and now he is a (WTF) joint manager with the same status as an all ireland winning manager. I cannot fathom this.

I dont know anything about hannon senior, but abviously is going to lead to selection issues if deccie is out of form (Unless he's a genuine type who wont advocate on his son's behalf) but even still if declan is playing well there is always room for another playewr to say "yer man is only getting a game because of the old boy" whether true or not, any which way its better not to have a father/son coach player scenario for the most part. (there are exceptions, he'll have a nephew on the team too right?

In short i dont think things could be much worse. I expect disaster any improvement on that would be a surprise to me.

Quixoticelixer · 08-11-2013 6:08pm

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Here goes, the following is speculation mostly

.....

In short i dont think things could be much worse. I expect disaster any improvement on that would be a surprise to me.

We'll probably never know the full story of what exactly happened in the last two months, the fact that it took so long to reach an agreement makes me worry about the commitment of O'Grady, there's no doubting Ryan's commitment. One man has the unquestionable commitment but questionable credentials and the other man has questionable commitment but unquestionable credentials! Good mix I guess!

TJ might surprise us, if DO'G felt TJ would be a problem I don't think he'd go anywhere near the job. They must have had a good working relationship in 2011.

I still feel one man has to be in charge with the other acting as assistant. A clearly defined chain of command is important, and I don't care how good their working relationship is, they might agree on most things but they won't agree on everything. I'm very wary of selecting an experimental managerial set up at a time when we have a squad which has a genuine chance of making a serious push for the All-Ireland.

Plenty of cause to be concerned, but at the same time it just might work. We're best off adopting a "Wait and see" approach for now!

thinkstoomuch1 · 08-11-2013 6:15pm

glasagusban wrote: »

I don't see anything with Limerick to suggest O'Grady is better than Allen.

O'Grady persisted all year with O'Mahony and then Hickey at full back, and Geary at 6. There were obvious switches to sort those positions that he didn't make. Allen identified and sorted those positions immediately.

We very comfortably beat cork. At the match itself I was disappointed with the sending off as I knew there was no challenge left in the game. We would have won v 15 in my opinion but that was all on the day.

There were signs Allen should have made changes for Clare but to be fair why change a winning team? Lack of matches was a hindrance, as was the 5 week break. Missed frees and injuries on the day couldn't have been predicted. Also, preparations were hampered with injuries in the run up to the Clare game.

In hindsight, Allen clearly made mistakes. But I think he did a sight better than O'Grady, who will probably persist with Wayne Mc at 6 next year.

I think o grady made great progress in a year,allen had two full years and had a good foundation from o grady to build on.

O grady had to build confidence,unity,team from rock bottom.

He always said it was only one year ,and no more.

When he took charge of cork in 2003,, it did not happen in a year.Like limerick,he brought a game alien to us ,and it didnt go down well,he made great progress got us to a final but changed the team in 2004,one was moving kenny to midfield,the other was bringing cococaran at full forward.

Limerick won the league final against clare,it was played at a huge intensity .

That was huge.Also it had a huge knock on effect with many of the team winning an u21 for the ist time in around nine years,when leo o connor was in charge.

I know leo isnt rated much,and it was clear o gradys influence at senior helped them.

Clare like cork took two years to build a running and short game.It can't be the finished article in one year.

Donegal took two years to create their system.

I do think o grady is a fine coach,but tj as joint manager and now back two years later im not sure if the moment has been lost.

It looks like cunnigham is not joining.
Im amazed at that,i heard he was very much in line.

premierstone · 08-11-2013 6:17pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Not doubting you, but what's your basis for saying that?

He is only 20 years of age and is already at least a stone overweight for a top inter-county player, he is a wonderfull talent but I think its going to be an ongoing problem for Shane. I would know a couple of coach's/managers involved in Limerick Senior Club hurling and also a few lads from Na Piarsaigh and they have been telling me since June 2012 that he hasn't been fit enough.

I'm not questioning he's application or attitude btw, it appears more a combination of over doing it, niggly injuries and just been a naturally big man. Na Piarsaigh's extended run might not be the best thing for the lad either.

Fireball07 · 08-11-2013 6:19pm

Playing midfield for NaP now, his mobility will improve.

Quixoticelixer · 08-11-2013 6:23pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

Playing midfield for NaP now, his mobility will improve.

He's doing very well there too, was excellent v Kilmallock in the semi final.

thinkstoomuch1 · 08-11-2013 6:35pm

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Here goes, the following is speculation mostly

DO'G left after 1 year because he couldnt get the selectors for year 2 and was having a team foisted on him - he left. His tactics in that time were badly wrong he tried to get us playing a game that was alien in a short time without skillful players and it failed.

Its been said he was offered the job a few weeks ago but declined gain based on the back room team. Now he has taken the job as a (WTF) joint manager.....presumably this is the deal he rejected a few weeks ago and now has accepted against his better judgement? I cant fathom it. He's entering into a deal he knows is wrong.

What has TJ done to merit this selection over lets say Joe quaid? Nothing. Why is he held in such high regard? His history as a manager and a player has not been what you'd call harmonious and now he is a (WTF) joint manager with the same status as an all ireland winning manager. I cannot fathom this.

I dont know anything about hannon senior, but abviously is going to lead to selection issues if deccie is out of form (Unless he's a genuine type who wont advocate on his son's behalf) but even still if declan is playing well there is always room for another playewr to say "yer man is only getting a game because of the old boy" whether true or not, any which way its better not to have a father/son coach player scenario for the most part. (there are exceptions, he'll have a nephew on the team too right?

In short i dont think things could be much worse. I expect disaster any improvement on that would be a surprise to me.

We don't always agree,but i do find your posts honest,and in fairness you do call a spade a spade,you don't go along with the popular opinion just for the sake of it.

A lot of the media seem to think its great.

On the way to a match in mallow last night,i heard Donn o sullivan from limerick on newstalk i think,he said before it was confirmed that this was a dream team.

He said it was a popular choice.

You raised a good point if o grady and tj were the no.1 why wait 51 days to take it.

Cunnigham was in the fray.

And i share your concerns with the joint manager.

Mark lyons i don't know much about .

But darach o donnell is gone i presume.He is highely rated.

And ye left an option for a third selector down the line.

A lot of loose ends after two months.

You made a point a day ago that not to underestimate yere ability to mess it up,i see why u said it.
Time will tell.

premierstone · 08-11-2013 6:40pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

Playing midfield for NaP now, his mobility will improve.

I hope so, he has so many attributes of a top class player and is a wonderfull striker of a ball.

Browney7 · 08-11-2013 7:09pm

Some good debate in here the past while. Good to have input from rebels and tipp men aswell.

Personally feel OGrady couldn't lose the last time he was in charge. The strike wasnt as clear cut as the cork one. Plenty in Limerick sided against the players so the lads would have been fired up to prove people wrong and if the team failed miserably OGrady wouldn't have been blamed. If we were competitive O'Grady would have made progress.

That said, OGrady takes no crap and laid down standards and markers that the players bought into and Allen built on this resulting in the first Munster in 17 years and in fairness to both we've been hurling at the end of July for the last 3 years.

I feel TJ blotted his copy book last year with the 21s. I suspect some of the lads on the senior team didn't have the heads right. I'm willing to give him a chance but to me its no way near a dream team. Also find the co manager thing odd. Perhaps O'Grady couldn't commit to every training session but that's doubtful in fairness.

Can't understand what the Cunningham story is though. Was he screwed over by the Limerick co board or what. Strange he resigned. Thought he was a fait accompli for the job. Maybe waiting for the dust to settle but why leave Cork for anything other than a top job.

No doubting O'Grady's pedigree but the jury's out on the arrangement for me

Fireball07 · 08-11-2013 7:35pm

Couple of other things.

U-21s have been drawn to play Clare, no manager announced yet, although I heard Shane Fitzgibbon being rumoured. I would like an improved showing from them this year, although Hannon, for one, is now overage. Dowling will be their key player.

Stephen McDonagh is now a selector on the minor team with Ryan and Cregan. They have a lot of the same team as last year- two Lynchs, Barry Nash, La Touche Cosgrave, Tom Morrissey, few others.

And former Limerick keeper Seamus O'Donnell has spoken out about his battle with depression. Kinda in reaction to Conor Cusack's story, and the death of Niall Donohue... as I've said before, it must be very very hard for people to speak about it, especially when it's obviously still a part of his life. But encouraging people to talk is one way to help people in this case.

His situation is very sad, I didn't realise he was only 25 when he left the Limerick panel, I thought he was a bit older. I don't think he was as good as Seanie Kiely, but he's only 32 now, he could have been the Limerick keeper up to this day, we've had a few issues with keepers recently.

And he was seen as a "jolly" figure, and seemingly he spent days just crying to himself for no real reason. It's horrible stuff.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/sport/limerick-sport/limerick-gaa-star-my-battle-with-depression-1-5660255

thinkstoomuch1 · 08-11-2013 8:59pm

Browney7 wrote: »

Some good debate in here the past while. Good to have input from rebels and tipp men aswell.

Personally feel OGrady couldn't lose the last time he was in charge. The strike wasnt as clear cut as the cork one. Plenty in Limerick sided against the players so the lads would have been fired up to prove people wrong and if the team failed miserably OGrady wouldn't have been blamed. If we were competitive O'Grady would have made progress.

That said, OGrady takes no crap and laid down standards and markers that the players bought into and Allen built on this resulting in the first Munster in 17 years and in fairness to both we've been hurling at the end of July for the last 3 years.

I feel TJ blotted his copy book last year with the 21s. I suspect some of the lads on the senior team didn't have the heads right. I'm willing to give him a chance but to me its no way near a dream team. Also find the co manager thing odd. Perhaps O'Grady couldn't commit to every training session but that's doubtful in fairness.

Can't understand what the Cunningham story is though. Was he screwed over by the Limerick co board or what. Strange he resigned. Thought he was a fait accompli for the job. Maybe waiting for the dust to settle but why leave Cork for anything other than a top job.

No doubting O'Grady's pedigree but the jury's out on the arrangement for me

Yeah o grady takes no s**e.

Sean og once said after he pulled him up for being late,hes a real school aproach in management in that,these are the rules,you dont like it,fair enough,no grudes held,but find a new school.

The cunnigham angle,no one knows really.He was up to 3 wks ago in contention.If he wasnt and o grady and tj were the only ones then why wait ,its not like o grady or tj had majior commitments to cancel.

Theirs talk Ger C, walked,as he doesnt get on with JBM.
I DUNNO,just think people are adding 2 and 2 and getting 10.

Theres talk,that both men couldnt bear each other and that was the end.I think thats rubbish.

Yeah everyone knew they had a rock road,over cusack etc,and had differences but id say both gone on,and that both were comfortable together.

Both love cork hurling,hurling men to the bone,and while they had different views,and understanably as both are strong characters and not yes men, i have no doubt they could like they have done in the past , work together as their is respect their ,may be not total like,who knows,but their is respect their.

Ger and JBM I saw together on the field many time this year ,so i think its been blown up.

If their was majior problems ,i think he would have left earlier.And he never ruled himself out of the limerick job.

He is a huge loss to Cork.
Their saying work commitments also.

He was in contention for the limerick job.Its hard to know what happened..

Browney7 · 08-11-2013 11:32pm

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Theirs talk Ger C, walked,as he doesnt get on with JBM.
I DUNNO,just think people are adding 2 and 2 and getting 10.

Theres talk,that both men couldnt bear each other and that was the end.I think thats rubbish.

Yeah everyone knew they had a rock road,over cusack etc,and had differences but id say both gone on,and that both were comfortable together.

Both love cork hurling,hurling men to the bone,and while they had different views,and understanably as both are strong characters and not yes men, i have no doubt they could like they have done in the past , work together as their is respect their ,may be not total like,who knows,but their is respect their...

I suppose you never see two bulls in the one field!

paddy no 11 · 08-11-2013 11:34pm

Down at home getting the details from the auld fella, im not going to post them here, but pitiful is the only word that comes to mind

We are fcuked, not a hope, it'll collapse like a house of cards, we wont win a worthwhile game.

thinkstoomuch1 · 09-11-2013 12:31am

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Down at home getting the details from the auld fella, im not going to post them here, but pitiful is the only word that comes to mind

We are fcuked, not a hope, it'll collapse like a house of cards, we wont win a worthwhile game.

Jesus ,i hope that aint true paddy.

Just one?cunnigham was in contention

A yes or no even

Fireball07 · 09-11-2013 12:38am

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Down at home getting the details from the auld fella, im not going to post them here, but pitiful is the only word that comes to mind

We are fcuked, not a hope, it'll collapse like a house of cards, we wont win a worthwhile game.

Got to give us some sort of clue...

dzilla · 09-11-2013 11:39am

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Down at home getting the details from the auld fella, im not going to post them here, but pitiful is the only word that comes to mind.

Obviously gospel in that case

paddy no 11 · 09-11-2013 1:33pm

yes Cunningham had the job and from what anyone can make out it broke down on cusack, whether that was the county board not wanting him or TJ's block not wanting it I don't know but we fcuked Cunningham over.

The rest ye can work out given that we had 2 days to find a top coach (who didn't want it)

thinkstoomuch1 · 09-11-2013 1:41pm

paddy no 11 wrote: »

yes Cunningham had the job and from what anyone can make out it broke down on cusack, whether that was the county board not wanting him or TJ's block not wanting it I don't know but we fcuked Cunningham over.

The rest ye can work out given that we had 2 days to find a top coach (who didn't want it)

Sound and thats fair enough,some things better not said.

It will be interesing the cork side of it if it surfaces.

It confirms what you said that what i heard,cunnigham was a main runner with cusack.

Fireball07 · 09-11-2013 10:17pm

Na Piarsaigh playing Passage tomorrow in the Gaelic Grounds. Big game, they're the favourites, but the loss of Kieran Breen could be big but if Passage are without Noel Connors, you'd think that'd be an even bigger blow.

washman3 · 09-11-2013 10:32pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

Na Piarsaigh playing Passage tomorrow in the Gaelic Grounds. Big game, they're the favourites, but the loss of Kieran Breen could be big but if Passage are without Noel Connors, you'd think that'd be an even bigger blow.

Is there a doubt about Noel Connors.? didn't hear that. That would be a devastating blow for passage, and with all due respect, would dwarf the loss of Kieran Breen to N.P.

Fireball07 · 09-11-2013 10:33pm

washman3 wrote: »

Is there a doubt about Noel Connors.? didn't hear that. That would be a devastating blow for passage, and with all due respect, would dwarf the loss of Kieran Breen to N.P.

I was reading this earlier

http://www.hoganstand.com/Waterford/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=202750

paddy no 11 · 09-11-2013 10:51pm

Looking forward to seeing breen and JO'B again tomorrow

mickmackey1 · 10-11-2013 5:07pm

Well done NaP, Munster senior, minor and club champions wouldn't be a bad return at all

paddy no 11 · 10-11-2013 6:00pm

Na P should apply for some sort of charity status, they gifted scores to passage today kept them in it, plus were wasteful at the other end. Hard to see a free scoring midelton side not doing more damage.

The keeper and king were at fault for scores and you can see king being cleaned out at FB.

In good news, downes gave the best CF forward we've seen for a while and if he keeps giving performances like that you'd think the county 11 jersey would have to be his. was he 6 from 6 today?

Mixed bag from both breens, good efforts from 14 and 5.

Dowling got 3 from play but still the frees were erratic and you'd want a lot more from him.

flutered · 10-11-2013 6:21pm

was no the main bone of contention after the clare game the conditioning of the playerss, did not the bloods show up too many issues, yet the came fitness guy back, in any other couty or stopt this would be the end of the road, but in limerick it is rewarded, wen i go down to south kilkenney in a few weeks i am going to get some ribbing,

Quixoticelixer · 10-11-2013 8:11pm

Not really sure what you're saying there??! I don't think conditioning of the players was really a problem.

Quixoticelixer · 10-11-2013 9:52pm

paddy no 11 wrote: »

yes Cunningham had the job and from what anyone can make out it broke down on cusack, whether that was the county board not wanting him or TJ's block not wanting it I don't know but we fcuked Cunningham over.

Cunningham was in provided he could pick his own backroom team, but a strong element in the board were adamant that the back room team be composed of Limerick men. Cunningham wanted to bring one or two of his own fellow Cork men on board and gave assurances that he would involve one or two Limerick men, this wasn't enough for the board; they wanted complete control over back room appointments, and things broke down with Cunningham.

A manager should always select his own selectors/coaches/back room team.

If what thinkstoomuch1 has been saying about Cunningham all along is accurate (I don't see why not, he doesn't strike me as a bluffer), then our county board are after ruining an excellent opportunity.

One last thing, our board are idiots, this selection committee/panel is nonsense, together they made a total balls of it so by all means vent our frustration at them! But I hope people will get behind TJ Ryan and Donal O'Grady now, none of that nonsense was their fault and they should get our support.

paddy no 11 · 10-11-2013 10:25pm

As you say the CB have messed up again.

Of course im behind them im just not sure their behind each other. Anyway will be the spring before we see how things work out.

Quixoticelixer · 10-11-2013 10:49pm

paddy no 11 wrote: »

As you say the CB have messed up again.

Of course im behind them im just not sure their behind each other. Anyway will be the spring before we see how things work out.

Sorry if that came off as me suggesting you weren't, not what I was doing! But I have heard some odd comments in the last few days from talking to people, it's as though some people actually want them to fail!

They must have a good working relationship from 2011 otherwise this wouldn't be happening, and even if they do get on well and agree on everything, there's then the issue of how will the players take to the set up. There's a lot that could go wrong with an experimental set up like this.

Has any other county ever done this (joint managers) in the GAA? I can't recall it happening in hurling for the last 20-25 years anyway.

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