Garda Recruitment - Applying to join An Garda Siochana

Jumboman · 16-09-2013 10:20am

Fegten wrote: »

Candidates must be between 18 and 35 years of age and must pass an exacting medical exam. Candidates must be of good mental and bodily health and free from any defect or abnormality likely to interfere with the efficient performance of their duties. The requirement to be of a specific height has been removed and replaced with a physical competency test.

Are they allowed to discriminate against someone with a mental health problem ?

mycro89 · 16-09-2013 10:50am

If anyone has a link to an application form for the previous campaigns can they please pm.

Regards,
Mycro

SonnyB · 16-09-2013 10:59am

Jumboman wrote: »

Are they allowed to discriminate against someone with a mental health problem ?

In this day and age "mental health" issues are such a broad sensitive field - In my honest opinion, and I am sure this is under the guidance of "The Employment Equality Act, 1998" and the Equal Status Act, 2000, anyone suffering from mild depression, anxiety etc etc shouldn't be discriminated against for the upcoming competition, there again that's just my opinion and I feel they would be just as good a Guard as any..

Jumboman · 16-09-2013 11:09am

Fegten wrote: »

In this day and age "mental health" issues are such a broad sensitive field - In my honest opinion, and I am sure this is under the guidance of "The Employment Equality Act, 1998" and the Equal Status Act, 2000, anyone suffering from mild depression, anxiety etc etc shouldn't be discriminated against for the upcoming competition, there again that's just my opinion and I feel they would be just as good a Guard as any..

What if the person in question is a paranoid schizophrenic ? Can they be discriminated against ?

SonnyB · 16-09-2013 11:19am

Jumboman wrote: »

What if the person in question is a paranoid schizophrenic ? Can they be discriminated against ?

I'd imagine no they cant, but would more than likey be deemed unfit during the medical. Then the question arises, is a person with such an illness suited to the role as a Garda and I say that with the utmost respect for those who suffer from paranoid schizophrnia.

Section_4 · 16-09-2013 12:48pm

Jumboman wrote: »

Are they allowed to discriminate against someone with a mental health problem ?

Eliminating a potential candidate from a competition on the advice of an independent medical expert is not discrimination.

If the medical expert deems an existing mental health issue is likely to negatively impact on a candidates capability to satisfactorily perform the requisite tasks and duties required of a member of AGS the candidate will be deemed medically unfit for duty and bared from advancing in the competition.

Similarly if the medical practitioner believes that a candidates mental health issue is likely to be exacerbated due to the nature of work in AGS then they will recommend that the candidate does not proceed any further in the competition.

This is not discrimination, it is a medical assessment of candidates suitability for employment in AGS and is presented with achieving the best overall outcome for the organisation and it's members collectively, not those of the candidate.

The same medical assesment for determining suitibility applies to and rules out candidates with physical inparments such as those missing an eye, being in a wheel chair, missing fingers and so forth.

I am not looking to debate the morality of such rules, just clarifying the answers given to you this far.

Uriel. · 16-09-2013 1:10pm

Jumboman wrote: »

Are they allowed to discriminate against someone with a mental health problem ?

I wouldn't classify it as discrimination to be honest. But just to use that word for handiness, they also discriminate as follows:

You won't get in with one leg
You won't get in with one arm
You won't get in if your eyesight is below a certain level
same for hearing
same for a myriad of physical conditions

If a pre-existing condition that you have may impact on the type of service and the quality of service you can provide then you are not going to be deemed fit to be a member. This applies to mental or physical issues and is legitimate and only right

Jumboman · 16-09-2013 1:18pm

Section_4 wrote: »

This is not discrimination,

It is by definition discrimination

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/discrimination?showCookiePolicy=true

unfair treatment of a person, racial group, minority, etc; action based on prejudice
subtle appreciation in matters of taste
the ability to see fine distinctions and differences
(electronics) the selection of a signal having a particular frequency, amplitude, phase, etc, effected by the elimination of other signals by means of a discriminator

Uriel. · 16-09-2013 1:28pm

Jumboman wrote: »

It is by definition discrimination

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/discrimination?showCookiePolicy=true

unfair treatment of a person, racial group, minority, etc; action based on prejudice

subtle appreciation in matters of taste

the ability to see fine distinctions and differences

(electronics) the selection of a signal having a particular frequency, amplitude, phase, etc, effected by the elimination of other signals by means of a discriminator

junior cert results day - conversation between two adults:
Person 1: "God, I remember back in my day doing the junior cert, seems so long ago now, do you ever miss school?"

Person 2: "By school, do you mean 'an institution or building at which children and young people usually under 19 receive education' or do you mean 'a group of porpoises or similar aquatic animals that swim together'?"

Hmm context is everything as it appears is misplaced Pedantry and smart assery

Canyon86 · 16-09-2013 1:47pm

With the amount of applicants AGS will be looking at any reason for excluding candidates unfortunately,

Something I am worried about myself lol

Nobody knows anything being honest

thekopend · 16-09-2013 2:07pm

Jumboman wrote: »

It is by definition discrimination

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/discrimination?showCookiePolicy=true

unfair treatment of a person, racial group, minority, etc; action based on prejudice

subtle appreciation in matters of taste

the ability to see fine distinctions and differences

(electronics) the selection of a signal having a particular frequency, amplitude, phase, etc, effected by the elimination of other signals by means of a discriminator

Call it what you want but the AGS are allowed to, and will exclude people from recruitment for numerous reasons and rightly so! It's due to the nature of the job and the demands the gardai are put to. If the candidates health or whatever prevents them from doing that job to the highest standard (which is what they will want from now on) they will be cut. If you don't like that fact don't apply.

Jumboman · 16-09-2013 2:14pm

thekopend wrote: »

Call it what you want but the AGS are allowed to, and will exclude people from recruitment for numerous reasons and rightly so! It's due to the nature of the job and the demands the gardai are put to. If the candidates health or whatever prevents them from doing that job to the highest standard (which is what they will want from now on) they will be cut. If you don't like that fact don't apply

.

If they want the job done to the highest standard they would not have dropped the height restriction. 5ft4 (or less) gardas are a joke. The security guys on the luas are bigger than the average garda.

Uriel. · 16-09-2013 2:18pm

Jumboman wrote: »

If they want the job done to the highest standard they would not have dropped the height restriction. 5ft4 (or less) gardas are a joke. The security guys on the luas are bigger than the average garda.

height does not equal ability and strength.

thekopend · 16-09-2013 2:21pm

Jumboman wrote: »

If they want the job done to the highest standard they would not have dropped the height restriction. 5ft4 (or less) gardas are a joke. The security guys on the luas are bigger than the average garda.

Well it's not all about your height, it's about what your made of. The job isn't all physically either you know, maybe only 5% depending where you are based.

Jumboman · 16-09-2013 2:24pm

Uriel. wrote: »

height does not equal ability and strength.

I didnt say it does. But all things been equal a tall garda will do the job better.
If you have a 6ft garda or 5ft4 garda walking the streets which one do you think the average scumbag will respect more ?

Like on the luas the big security guys give an air of authority.

Uriel. · 16-09-2013 2:28pm

Jumboman wrote: »

I didnt say it does. But all things been equal a tall garda will do the job better.
If you have a 6ft garda or 5ft4 garda walking the streets which one do you think the average scumbag will respect more ?

That's fine, if the recruitment process was lining people up against the wall and picking on the basis of height but it's not. There are multitudes of skills and ability that various people bring to the table. There is a need for modern police forces to move towards intelligent policing and not brute force.

I'd wager most scum won't respect the Garda either way to be honest. Physical training, self defence and arrest/subdue skills are provided in TM

Santa Cruz · 16-09-2013 3:48pm

Jumboman wrote: »

What if the person in question is a paranoid schizophrenic ? Can they be discriminated against ?

It's not discrimination to be deemed unfit for a particular occupation. I'm sure that Health and Safety would not allow a person who is paranoid and schizophrenic to be put in a position where they would have access to firearm.

Santa Cruz · 16-09-2013 3:49pm

Jumboman wrote: »

I didnt say it does. But all things been equal a tall garda will do the job better.
If you have a 6ft garda or 5ft4 garda walking the streets which one do you think the average scumbag will respect more ?

Like on the luas the big security guys give an air of authority.

In the US small police are always accompanied by their friends, Smith and Wesson. That's what the small Irish guards are lacking

therealdeal23 · 25-09-2013 6:41pm

Jumboman wrote: »

There is a lot of Nepotism in the garda if you have a family member already in the force your a shoe in.

not really unless your family member is rank from Commissioner down to Chief Supt then they can pull strings..I believe nepotism will be rampant in this campaign and many more till economy is strong,if ever strong again.senior gardai,civil servants,govt ministers will be inundated with queries for 'help' getting in.there's a house in my area ive dubbed 'templemore' dad is a senior garda all his offsrping are all gardai..another one is recruitment age and surprisingly hes optimitistic of been successful in next campaign :rolleyes:

adrian2 · 25-09-2013 6:55pm

Yeah this is the reality that faces anyone who
does not have pull going into this campaign. The fact is though while I agree that it's wrong
the majority if not all of us would do the same of we were to have senior gardai as parents uncles
etc. It's a problem that is systemic within ags and Ireland alike,possibly globally too if we are being realistic. I am not holding any great hopes of entrance in this campaign,even though I attempt to remain optimistic

Canyon86 · 26-09-2013 7:54am

adrian2 wrote: »

Yeah this is the reality that faces anyone who
does not have pull going into this campaign. The fact is though while I agree that it's wrong
the majority if not all of us would do the same of we were to have senior gardai as parents uncles
etc. It's a problem that is systemic within ags and Ireland alike,possibly globally too if we are being realistic. I am not holding any great hopes of entrance in this campaign,even though I attempt to remain optimistic

Agreed

Canyon86 · 26-09-2013 8:00am

opinions?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-recruits-to-be-put-on-beat-after-32-weeks-training-29611588.html

_Kaiser_ · 26-09-2013 8:18am

Canyon86 wrote: »

opinions?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-recruits-to-be-put-on-beat-after-32-weeks-training-29611588.html

Policy Academy springs to mind! Y'know the bit at the end where the new recruits are brought out to "help" with the rioting
Have to agree with the above comments too re nepotism. It's not supposed to be a jobs for the son/daughter/nephew/niece etc club but that's what it is!

No wonder the "quality" of the force is so low and those that DO take the job and responsibility it carries seriously are all too often overshadowed by the "other types".

Our police force needs a top to bottom clean-out and reform, not "more of the same"

senordingdong · 26-09-2013 9:33pm

Canyon86 wrote: »

opinions?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-recruits-to-be-put-on-beat-after-32-weeks-training-29611588.html

Standard practice in most jobs. Get the moneys worth of cheap labour out of the newbies.

therealdeal23 · 27-09-2013 5:04pm

adrian2 wrote: »

Yeah this is the reality that faces anyone who
does not have pull going into this campaign. The fact is though while I agree that it's wrong
the majority if not all of us would do the same of we were to have senior gardai as parents uncles
etc. It's a problem that is systemic within ags and Ireland alike,possibly globally too if we are being realistic. I am not holding any great hopes of entrance in this campaign,even though I attempt to remain optimistic

nepotism is wrong but its human nature your always going to help a family member/friend out over a stranger..I know of one place that will be gone if he passes aptitude test and I hope he doesnt eventhough he's a friend..how many other examples are there out there of places already gone??
There is six years of people with strong connections waiting to apply for next campaign,I believe it will be the most unfair campaign there ever was.
People who spend their time sitting on their hands getting in ahead of people who upskilled..

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mcguinnesss-son-claimed-22-weeks-of-overtime-in-a-year-29474508.html

Ogham · 06-10-2013 6:20pm

What does anyone think of this course?
http://www.citycolleges.ie/wp/diploma-in-policing-studies/
It's only 1 evening a week for 10 weeks .
It calls itself a diploma - but it seems failrly basic stuff
Would it be a waste of money ?

carzony · 06-10-2013 6:23pm

Ogham wrote: »

What does anyone think of this course?
http://www.citycolleges.ie/wp/diploma-in-policing-studies/
It's only 1 evening a week for 10 weeks .
It calls itself a diploma - but it seems failrly basic stuff
Would it be a waste of money ?

I think that's similar to what you'd get in Templemore isn't it? no point if that's the case

danish pasterys · 06-10-2013 6:36pm

Ogham wrote: »

What does anyone think of this course?
http://www.citycolleges.ie/wp/diploma-in-policing-studies/
It's only 1 evening a week for 10 weeks .
It calls itself a diploma - but it seems failrly basic stuff
Would it be a waste of money ?

Of course its a waste of money omg 800 euro, what are you gonna learn in ten classes? and most of all is this course gonna get ya a job dont think so, I wouldnt mind if it gauranteed you a recruitment interveiw but it dosent even do that just another money scam believe me. I did a one year plc course in security studies which was aimed for garda recruitment and has got me nowhere, pls dont waste your money

Dosent cost anything to join the reserves that would look better on your application

Ogham · 06-10-2013 6:40pm

carzony wrote: »

I think that's similar to what you'd get in Templemore isn't it? no point if that's the case

How can a 30 hour course be the same as a 2 year course ??
http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=181&Lang=1

thekopend · 06-10-2013 6:53pm

Ogham wrote: »

How can a 30 hour course be the same as a 2 year course ??
http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=181&Lang=1

That's just it. It can't be the same. There only trying to spin money out of next campaign. It won't have any relevance. At the end of the day any fool can do that course and come out the end of it still a fool. A day course that prepares for the real thing is the only thing worth spending money on IMO

Ogham · 06-10-2013 6:57pm

thekopend wrote: »

That's just it. It can't be the same. There only trying to spin money out of next campaign. It won't have any relevance. At the end of the day any fool can do that course and come out the end of it still a fool. A day course that prepares for the real thing is the only thing worth spending money on IMO

They are calling it a diploma which makes it sound good. But I suppose anyone can just set up a course and call it a diploma . I wonder if they are getting any takers?

thekopend · 06-10-2013 7:07pm

Unless the awarding body is fetac which it isn't I'd say it might not be taken too seriously.

Ogham · 06-10-2013 7:10pm

thekopend wrote: »

Unless the awarding body is fetac which it isn't I'd say it might not be taken too seriously.

It's the Institute of Commercial Management !
No NFQ Level mentioned.

Sounds like a con.

Mister Jingles · 06-10-2013 10:15pm

danish pasterys wrote: »

I did a one year plc course in security studies which was aimed for garda recruitment and has got me nowhere, pls dont waste your money

Colaiste Ide ?

danish pasterys · 06-10-2013 10:27pm

Mister Jingles wrote: »

Colaiste Ide ?

Whitehall college unfortunatly. Theres so many bs courses out there

carzony · 07-10-2013 9:35am

danish pasterys wrote: »

I did a one year plc course in security studies which was aimed for garda recruitment and has got me nowhere

How do you mean it got you nowhere? I know loads of lads in the reserves who done a similar course to that one..

Tyron Jara · 07-10-2013 2:24pm

danish pasterys wrote: »

I did a one year plc course in security studies which was aimed for garda recruitment and has got me nowhere

I did 2 years. Funny im nealry covinced its the reason I got the reserves. Got a nice level 5 and 6 and first aid and a computer cert out of it too.

http://www.corkcollegeofcommerce.ie/courses/2013/security/police-and-security-studies

Well worth it

longhalloween · 07-10-2013 3:30pm

It's crazy that there's so many unaccredited courses around. You can get a diploma in anything for just a few hours work.

If you're going to do a course at least make sure that it's NFQ recognised. At least your piece of paper will be worth something.

carzony · 07-10-2013 5:08pm

Tyron Jara wrote: »

I did 2 years. Funny im nealry covinced its the reason I got the reserves. Got a nice level 5 and 6 and first aid and a computer cert out of it too.

http://www.corkcollegeofcommerce.ie/courses/2013/security/police-and-security-studies

Well worth it

I'm doing an identical course and the tutor tells me he knows loads of guards/prison officers who joined straight after that course..

Cd_doe · 07-10-2013 6:57pm

carzony wrote: »

I'm doing an identical course and the tutor tells me he knows loads of guards/prison officers who joined straight after that course..

Now why would he go and make up something like that...

danish pasterys · 07-10-2013 7:20pm

Cd_doe wrote: »

Now why would he go and make up something like that...

To sell the course to yas and make you feel like your not blown your money

carzony · 07-10-2013 8:00pm

danish pasterys wrote: »

To sell the course to yas and make you feel like your not blown your money

well it is fetac level 6... One lad on here has done the course and he got the reserves out of it..

I know 3 lads who done the same course and got the reserves out of it also... It a well known course. I'm surprised you lads have never heard of it...

Tyron Jara · 07-10-2013 9:30pm

carzony wrote: »

I'm doing an identical course and the tutor tells me he knows loads of guards/prison officers who joined straight after that course..

So do I. Great course loved it myself I wished there had been a level 7 and 8

Tyron Jara · 07-10-2013 9:33pm

carzony wrote: »

well it is fetac level 6... One lad on here has done the course and he got the reserves out of it..

I know 3 lads who done the same course and got the reserves out of it also... It a well known course. I'm surprised you lads have never heard of it...

Its actually a level 5 and 6 Fetac Award. I also got into third level college with it. It generally isnt policing stuff its all health and safety, some psychology, first aid and other things. Even had business

carzony · 07-10-2013 9:54pm

Tyron Jara wrote: »

Its actually a level 5 and 6 Fetac Award. I also got into third level college with it. It generally isnt policing stuff its all health and safety, some psychology, first aid and other things. Even had business

Mine has all that aswell, I find the business very intresting. What course did you start in third level? I was looking at criminal psychology or probably business for next year..

danish pasterys · 07-10-2013 10:40pm

carzony wrote: »

well it is fetac level 6... One lad on here has done the course and he got the reserves out of it..

I know 3 lads who done the same course and got the reserves out of it also... It a well known course. I'm surprised you lads have never heard of it...

Wow he paid 800 euro to get a volunteer reserve unpaid job out of it, I know two girls that are in the reserves an im sure all the rest didnt have to spend 800 to get in either. op hit the nail on the head saying there tryna make money out the next recruitment campaign, thats the way this country works their just tryna screw money out of ya just like the 2grand fora two week barber course and be a certified barber.. Laughable

carzony · 07-10-2013 10:48pm

danish pasterys wrote: »

Wow he paid 800 euro to get a volunteer reserve unpaid job out of it, I know two girls that are in the reserves an im sure all the rest didnt have to spend 800 to get in either. op hit the nail on the head saying there tryna make money out the next recruitment campaign, thats the way this country works their just tryna screw money out of ya just like the 2grand fora two week barber course and be a certified barber.. Laughable

If you read my posts properly i'm doing the PLC to help me get into third level next year. I'm not worried about the garda right now.....

800 to get into the reserves? I'm sure the reserves will help him get into full time so I think the 800 was well worth it. Considering a career could be there for him..

Santa Cruz · 08-10-2013 9:10am

carzony wrote: »

I'm doing an identical course and the tutor tells me he knows loads of guards/prison officers who joined straight after that course..

And the tutor never lies!

Tyron Jara · 08-10-2013 11:10am

danish pasterys wrote: »

Wow he paid 800 euro to get a volunteer reserve unpaid job out of it, I know two girls that are in the reserves an im sure all the rest didnt have to spend 800 to get in either. op hit the nail on the head saying there tryna make money out the next recruitment campaign, thats the way this country works their just tryna screw money out of ya just like the 2grand fora two week barber course and be a certified barber.. Laughable

Danish I did that course off my own back to have a level 5 and 6 in policing because I wanted it. It got me into a level 7 course in another subject then. The reserves was just a bonus and I got that from my knowledge of this course and my own drive that the interviewers saw. Im not saying this will get you the Gardai I just think its a interesting course people might like. Its not aimed at Garda recruitment its more aimed at security and PSA licence you get out of it. Next time you decide bashing me check your facts!! And another thing your attitude stinks. IF people want to do courses like that to help them then off with them. You should support them and help anyone you can. Youll have to do it in the job. Though that diploma course people are on about doesnt look like its worth anything on paper. If your going to do a course do something that gives you a cert so you can fall back on it

RogerSmith · 08-10-2013 11:38pm

Agree with above post did the Fetac Security course myself a couple years back and found it very enjoyable, they used to have a Security Management Ordinary Degree from DIT but dis-continued it the year I would of gone onto it

People complaining about them what exactly did you expect?, a job minding the President at the end of it, they do exactly what they say on the tin no guarantees. There defo a bonus (only a slight bonus people with social work/defence force/prison officer will look better than a private security background IMO) in any Garda campaign. And for the record my courses only cost €200 a year I think and the hours were good for the students who wanted to keep on working, good value.

Garda Recruitment - Applying to join An Garda Siochana

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