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The Last of Us

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,860 ✭✭✭FlyingIrishMan


    sheehy83 wrote: »
    Spoilers regarding
    Ish

    I'm interested in that as well. I get that he brought his
    boat to land, found the sewers, setup a safe zone, recruited members, built a
    working society. Infected got in sewer. Ish fled and hid in the suburbs. I took
    it that he was the sniper?
    No reason to believe he was the sniper.
    They were just generic bad guys.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    C14N wrote: »
    This might be easier to agree with if
    the game didn't make you kill the unarmed doctors to get Ellie out, as well as Marlene who had lowered her weapon.

    Ah here. I'm not having that.
    Unarmed doctors? There were three of them, and in my playthrough I only killed one of them....the one who picked up the knife and said he wasn't going to let you take her. He had a weapon, he was fair game....especially in this world. I left the other two alone because they were unarmed.....even though they were child killers which is justification enough. I still let them be.

    His reason for killing Marlene was that he knew she would follow them. And didn't you read Marlene's diary and hear her audio log in the hospital? She was a coward. She dumped Ellie with you and Tess and ran away. Even the firefly's knew she was scum. They wouldn't even look at her after she abandoned "humanity's last hope" with a bunch of randomers to save her own neck.

    This point is driven home even more when she is shot and bleeding. She doesn't plead with you to leave Ellie there for mankind....she pleads for her own skin. She was no hero. In fact you might say she got her just deserts. Her only redeeming quality seems to be when the Firefly's asked her to kill Joel, she wouldn't.

    Talk of Joel being evil is just nuts. Yes, he killed people. You yourself C14N mentioned that he tied two people up, tortured them and killed them. But remember these two lads were from a hunting group, the same group as David. The two that died had no qualms about killing Joel and Ellie. They shoot at both of you during the hospital, and when Ellie tries to escape later on.

    People are giving the firefly's wayyyy to much credit here. Every person in the game is selfish to a large degree, even Joel and Ellie. Ellie was willing to kill a bunch of randomer's if it meant healing Joel who she cared about when he was sick.

    The Firefly's were no different. Again, this guy who has travelled across half the country to deliver a cure to them....what do they do? Order him killed. Some hero's. They are just as self centered as the rest. Even listening to the audio logs of one of the doctors highlights this. The shere glee in his voice about cutting into this little girl is disturbing. It's not that they have found a cure for humanity....it's that he's the one who has done it.

    Joel is no hero. But he's not evil either. He's just looking out for him and his own. Like everyone else.

    Props to Naughty Dog. There is plenty of clever subtlety in this game. I thought it was truly brilliant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,835 ✭✭✭✭cloud493


    I didn't have any qualms about killing the fireflies. It reminded me of the start of the game in fact, when you're escaping from the military. What makes them any better?

    Gonna be honest, I loved the game, I really did, love the multiplayer,gonna platinum it, but.... I don't think its a masterpiece. If I was to compare it to say, bioshock infinite, I'd have to go with infinite.


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Mudlan


    cloud493 wrote: »

    Gonna be honest, I loved the game, I really did, love the multiplayer,gonna platinum it, but.... I don't think its a masterpiece. If I was to compare it to say, bioshock infinite, I'd have to go with infinite.

    Really? Prob a little bit biased because i like the Uncharted games but i kinda felt Bioshock a bit repetitive. Now the story was very good saying that and it is a good game, I just feel TLOU edges it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    cloud493 wrote: »
    I didn't have any qualms about killing the fireflies. It reminded me of the start of the game in fact, when you're escaping from the military. What makes them any better?

    Gonna be honest, I loved the game, I really did, love the multiplayer,gonna platinum it, but.... I don't think its a masterpiece. If I was to compare it to say, bioshock infinite, I'd have to go with infinite.

    I wouldn't. I adored Infinite for sure, but the Last of Us pips it for me. They both have a compelling story and both created a wonderful world, but I enjoyed the gameplay of the Last of Us a lot more. Sneaking around against enemies who are more powerful than you is just a different experience. Booker is a complete badass......Joel isn't. You feel weak. That makes gameplay more compelling for me. As somebody who wasn't sold at the bullet sponge bonanza that Uncharted was(I shouldn't have to shoot a guy 11 times to kill him), I really loved the gun play and bombs and melee and shiving with Joel.

    From a technical standpoint the Last of Us is superior. The animations are a good bit superior to infinite. Characters move around in a more smooth manner. Joel and Ellie look like real people as they hide. Infinite's enemies seem a bit cartoony at times.

    Game of the year for me. Nothing will touch it. And this coming from somebody who thinks Rome 2 will be brilliant and will play the crap out of GTAV. Neither will be as good as this.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,835 ✭✭✭✭cloud493


    In terms of gameplay, and story.. its a tough call. But I much more enjoyed infinites gameplay, and I preferred elizabeth as a companion to Ellie.

    This sounds like I didn't like it, but I did :p Its a solid 9/10.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭Timmyctc


    I have a question regarding a guy from the letters you find. Bear in mind in only about 60% through - at part above.
    It's regarding Ish. I've been managing to find his letters during my travels from when he arrived by boat, to his hideout and then the attack and escape but I think I may have missed one during the sniper scene. Last one I found was in a house before said sniper scene - the one with the upstairs safe. Do you find out anything more about him?

    I was asking the same thing earlier actually. I also think that
    one of the DLC contents may potentially be based off him. I think I may have gotten all the same notes RE: ISH from the Sewer to the safehouse afterwards. The picture the kids drew of ISH made it seem all the more sad that they got overrun. Would be cool to find out what happened afterwards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭biggebruv


    just finished it loved it the game did start off abit slow but it ramps it up about and hour or so in.

    the clickers are such a cool idea and will go down for me a classic video game monster
    the part where the cannibal starts running after you with the knife after the 3rd stab you give him was terrifying it sent chills up my back:D


    as for game of the year I definitely put this at the top
    i had tomb raider but the last of us creeps past it for me

    but I cant call it my game of the year yet as there's another small title coming out in September that you guys may just may have heard about GTAV lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,605 ✭✭✭C14N


    Kirby wrote: »
    Ah here. I'm not having that.
    Unarmed doctors? There were three of them, and in my playthrough I only killed one of them....the one who picked up the knife and said he wasn't going to let you take her. He had a weapon, he was fair game....especially in this world. I left the other two alone because they were unarmed.....even though they were child killers which is justification enough. I still let them be.
    He has a scalpel but he doesn't use it. You can walk right up to him but you can't get past without killing him. I couldn't find any prompt to get Ellie without killing the other two, I wish I could because I felt like crap shooting the cowering doctors.
    Kirby wrote: »
    His reason for killing Marlene was that he knew she would follow them. And didn't you read Marlene's diary and hear her audio log in the hospital? She was a coward. She dumped Ellie with you and Tess and ran away. Even the firefly's knew she was scum. They wouldn't even look at her after she abandoned "humanity's last hope" with a bunch of randomers to save her own neck.

    This point is driven home even more when she is shot and bleeding. She doesn't plead with you to leave Ellie there for mankind....she pleads for her own skin. She was no hero. In fact you might say she got her just deserts. Her only redeeming quality seems to be when the Firefly's asked her to kill Joel, she wouldn't.
    It sounded to me like she felt distraught about giving Ellie up, suicidal even. I don't think Joel and Tess were just a bunch of randomers either, they clearly knew each other before the game. Simple fact is though that with someone in Marlene's position, Ellie wouldn't have survived with her very long anyway though.

    Of course she doesn't plead for Ellie, we all knew at that point that Joel would never do that. Ellie is in the car and Joel walks back to kill her. I think it's pretty natural to plead for your own life when everything else is lost. As you (and Joel) said, Marlene would search for Ellie anyway because she does care about the cure. Joel doesn't want Ellie to ever find out what he did or that she is the cure because he knows she would die for that.
    Kirby wrote: »
    Talk of Joel being evil is just nuts. Yes, he killed people. You yourself C14N mentioned that he tied two people up, tortured them and killed them. But remember these two lads were from a hunting group, the same group as David. The two that died had no qualms about killing Joel and Ellie. They shoot at both of you during the hospital, and when Ellie tries to escape later on.
    David is right though when he says that his group are like Joel and Ellie, they just want to survive. I'm sure being out in the wilderness, you tend to get pretty aggressive toward strangers who are taking supplies before you. Joel interrogates the guy in the chair and then kills him even when he talks. He didn't have to kill either of those guys, they were both fairly well incapacitated and he would probably never see them again. There's a difference between killing to survive and killing the way Joel did in that scene.
    Kirby wrote: »
    Ellie was willing to kill a bunch of randomer's if it meant healing Joel who she cared about when he was sick.
    Not really, she only started killing David's group while escaping and even then you could spare most of them. Before that, she actually spared both David and his buddy after David told him to drop his weapon.
    Kirby wrote: »
    The Firefly's were no different. Again, this guy who has travelled across half the country to deliver a cure to them....what do they do? Order him killed. Some hero's. They are just as self centered as the rest.
    I agree that the Fireflies aren't very heroic and I was pretty shocked to learn that they wanted Joel killed but it did turn out in hindsight to have been the right decision. If they had killed Joel, they would have gotten their cure. Most likely they figured Joel would try to be protective of Ellie, especially after the way he was at the river.
    Kirby wrote: »
    Joel is no hero. But he's not evil either. He's just looking out for him and his own. Like everyone else.
    I'm not sure how we define who is and isn't "evil" but I certainly think Joel has become the monster in this horror story by the end of the game. Everyone in the game does bad things to survive but sacrificing the cure for humanity so he can fulfill his own desires is probably the worst thing, especially since it's not what Ellie would want.
    Kirby wrote: »
    Props to Naughty Dog. There is plenty of clever subtlety in this game. I thought it was truly brilliant.

    Definitely. In fact, I'm glad that this discussion is even happening. It shows that they've made a game that can be interpreted differently by different people instead of the usual cut-and-dry happy endings we see in games.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭mystic86


    Kirby wrote: »
    Ah here. I'm not having that.
    Unarmed doctors? There were three of them, and in my playthrough I only killed one of them....the one who picked up the knife and said he wasn't going to let you take her. He had a weapon, he was fair game....especially in this world. I left the other two alone because they were unarmed.....even though they were child killers which is justification enough. I still let them be.

    His reason for killing Marlene was that he knew she would follow them. And didn't you read Marlene's diary and hear her audio log in the hospital? She was a coward. She dumped Ellie with you and Tess and ran away. Even the firefly's knew she was scum. They wouldn't even look at her after she abandoned "humanity's last hope" with a bunch of randomers to save her own neck.

    This point is driven home even more when she is shot and bleeding. She doesn't plead with you to leave Ellie there for mankind....she pleads for her own skin. She was no hero. In fact you might say she got her just deserts. Her only redeeming quality seems to be when the Firefly's asked her to kill Joel, she wouldn't.

    Talk of Joel being evil is just nuts. Yes, he killed people. You yourself C14N mentioned that he tied two people up, tortured them and killed them. But remember these two lads were from a hunting group, the same group as David. The two that died had no qualms about killing Joel and Ellie. They shoot at both of you during the hospital, and when Ellie tries to escape later on.

    People are giving the firefly's wayyyy to much credit here. Every person in the game is selfish to a large degree, even Joel and Ellie. Ellie was willing to kill a bunch of randomer's if it meant healing Joel who she cared about when he was sick.

    The Firefly's were no different. Again, this guy who has travelled across half the country to deliver a cure to them....what do they do? Order him killed. Some hero's. They are just as self centered as the rest. Even listening to the audio logs of one of the doctors highlights this. The shere glee in his voice about cutting into this little girl is disturbing. It's not that they have found a cure for humanity....it's that he's the one who has done it.

    Joel is no hero. But he's not evil either. He's just looking out for him and his own. Like everyone else.

    Props to Naughty Dog. There is plenty of clever subtlety in this game. I thought it was truly brilliant.

    I agree with you.
    C14N wrote: »
    I'm not sure how we define who is and isn't "evil" but I certainly think Joel has become the monster in this horror story by the end of the game. Everyone in the game does bad things to survive but sacrificing the cure for humanity so he can fulfill his own desires is probably the worst thing, especially since it's not what Ellie would want.

    It's mad but I have a different interpretation of events then you, and we both saw the same thing. Oh well, such is life.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭mystic86


    I'm just waiting for Johnny Ultimate (and Retrogamer) to give there 2 cents, those guys can form and express opinions really well, describe things that I felt about something but was unable to put into words (though it's very likely I won't agree with them either!) ... they must have gotten A1's in English :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,811 ✭✭✭✭ShaneU


    Can we move all the spoiler discussion to another thread, it's far too easy to accidentally click on them on the mobile site


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭Timmyctc


    C14N wrote: »
    He has a scalpel but he doesn't use it. You can walk right up to him but you can't get past without killing him. I couldn't find any prompt to get Ellie without killing the other two, I wish I could because I felt like crap shooting the cowering doctors.


    It sounded to me like she felt distraught about giving Ellie up, suicidal even. I don't think Joel and Tess were just a bunch of randomers either, they clearly knew each other before the game. Simple fact is though that with someone in Marlene's position, Ellie wouldn't have survived with her very long anyway though.

    Of course she doesn't plead for Ellie, we all knew at that point that Joel would never do that. Ellie is in the car and Joel walks back to kill her. I think it's pretty natural to plead for your own life when everything else is lost. As you (and Joel) said, Marlene would search for Ellie anyway because she does care about the cure. Joel doesn't want Ellie to ever find out what he did or that she is the cure because he knows she would die for that.


    David is right though when he says that his group are like Joel and Ellie, they just want to survive. I'm sure being out in the wilderness, you tend to get pretty aggressive toward strangers who are taking supplies before you. Joel interrogates the guy in the chair and then kills him even when he talks. He didn't have to kill either of those guys, they were both fairly well incapacitated and he would probably never see them again. There's a difference between killing to survive and killing the way Joel did in that scene.


    Not really, she only started killing David's group while escaping and even then you could spare most of them. Before that, she actually spared both David and his buddy after David told him to drop his weapon.


    I agree that the Fireflies aren't very heroic and I was pretty shocked to learn that they wanted Joel killed but it did turn out in hindsight to have been the right decision. If they had killed Joel, they would have gotten their cure. Most likely they figured Joel would try to be protective of Ellie, especially after the way he was at the river.


    I'm not sure how we define who is and isn't "evil" but I certainly think Joel has become the monster in this horror story by the end of the game. Everyone in the game does bad things to survive but sacrificing the cure for humanity so he can fulfill his own desires is probably the worst thing, especially since it's not what Ellie would want.



    Definitely. In fact, I'm glad that this discussion is even happening. It shows that they've made a game that can be interpreted differently by different people instead of the usual cut-and-dry happy endings we see in games.


    I disagree with many of your points but agree 100% with your final point. :) ND you geniuses.

    Oh and sidebar. Ye can lift Ellie without killing all three. They say something to one another and stare on terrified :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,835 ✭✭✭✭cloud493


    But we've seen what Joel went through, for 20 years. Yes he did questionable things. But he's a broken man, and he finally lets his guard down for this kid. I don't think its up to them to decide Ellie should die for a cure that might not even work. Maybe if it was her own choice, she'd have gone for it. But Joel thought he was acting in both their interests. It was a selfish act, no question. But I think justified.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    ShaneU wrote: »
    Can we move all the spoiler discussion to another thread, it's far too easy to accidentally click on them on the mobile site

    Spoiler thread here


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,605 ✭✭✭C14N


    cloud493 wrote: »
    But we've seen what Joel went through, for 20 years. Yes he did questionable things. But he's a broken man, and he finally lets his guard down for this kid. I don't think its up to them to decide Ellie should die for a cure that might not even work. Maybe if it was her own choice, she'd have gone for it. But Joel thought he was acting in both their interests. It was a selfish act, no question. But I think justified.

    I replied to you in that spoilers thread instead just to make things easier.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭Timmyctc


    Would it not make sense to just not visit this thread until you've finished the game instead of making a 2nd thread as basically all chat RE: TLOU Now will be about the game's actual content. Taking the talk about the game's content out of the thread will make for very few posts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,437 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool


    Timmyctc wrote: »
    Would it not make sense to just not visit this thread until you've finished the game instead of making a 2nd thread as basically all chat RE: TLOU Now will be about the game's actual content. Taking the talk about the game's content out of the thread will make for very few posts.

    I think it's fine having a spoilers thread, I had to leave this forum alone because I already saw one nding spoiler and I'm sure other people, who haven't cleared it yet, are the same. A few pages are actually all grey spoiler hidden walls.

    So, what is everyones weapon of choice. I try to keep with the bow but the shotgun is most effective. Can't stand the rifle. Molotov is deadly as well. Haven't used a smoke bomb yet, really should!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,605 ✭✭✭C14N


    Timmyctc wrote: »
    Would it not make sense to just not visit this thread until you've finished the game instead of making a 2nd thread as basically all chat RE: TLOU Now will be about the game's actual content. Taking the talk about the game's content out of the thread will make for very few posts.

    Some people who have it partly done will want to discuss it though or just share opinions so far or even ask for help if they're stuck somewhere. I think the other thread is specifically about the ending.

    ^I loved the bow too. It was actually satisfying landing a hit on a clicker from far away with that thing (probably the only part of the game I could call "satisfying" too).


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    sheehy83 wrote: »
    So, what is everyones weapon of choice. I try to keep with the bow but the shotgun is most effective. Can't stand the rifle. Molotov is deadly as well. Haven't used a smoke bomb yet, really should!

    I really like the bow myself. Silent, almost always a one-hit kill and you can often pick up the same arrows again after firing them (some break though). The Molotovs are devastating too. I remember, at one stage, there were a number of clickers about and a bloater. I threw a bottle first to get them all to congregate in one spot, then threw the Molotov - it killed all of them, even the bloater!

    I found the melee weapons with the shivs attached useless though. Shivs on their own are way more useful as they are silent, and by the time you need to use a melee weapon, a gun is probably better because you are normally spotted in that case.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭SouthTippBass


    Just finished this last night, took a full 24hours of game time. Felt completly drained after the credits finished rolling. Game of the year no doubt, best I'v played in years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,437 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool


    I've found the melee with shiv just deadly one hitting people, waste of shivs though so very rarely make one. Since upgrading to shiv master and getting the upgraded shiv manual, I get 3 goes with one shiv and using a shiv defending against a clicker doesn't use it up. Makes clickers almost redundant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,835 ✭✭✭✭cloud493


    Flamethrower, least against the infected :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,605 ✭✭✭C14N


    Otacon wrote: »
    I found the melee weapons with the shivs attached useless though. Shivs on their own are way more useful as they are silent, and by the time you need to use a melee weapon, a gun is probably better because you are normally spotted in that case.

    I almost never had a melee weapon without a shiv, one hit kill was so nice in a tight spot and I was usually full on shiv supplies anyway since my shivs lasted 3 hits by the end of the game. Even better was the axe (and to a lesser extent, the machete).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭SouthTippBass


    cloud493 wrote: »
    Flamethrower, least against the infected :cool:

    Flamethrower against everything! Favorite weapon in the game, one of only three that I maxed, along with bow and revolver (maxing your bow is a must!). Felt like Hank Scorpio the first time I took down a group of infected :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,605 ✭✭✭C14N


    I just want to say that the brick was great too as a melee weapon. I don't know what the benefit of choosing a bottle instead was.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭SouthTippBass


    C14N wrote: »
    I just want to say that the brick was great too as a melee weapon. I don't know what the benefit of choosing a bottle instead was.

    Bottle was more for the clickers and infected, good tactic I found was, if you found yourself cornered in a room full of infected, toss a bottle into the centre. Then when they all group close together at the source of the noise, throw in a molotov. Killed 5 clickers in one go with this once :D


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,702 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    So I caved in and got the game and played a bit of it last night. Probably 4 hours in so barely scratched the surface.

    So far I've not made my mind up on the combat. Stealth works really well while fighting and gunplay are kind of clunky. However I'm sure that's a design choice to dissuade you from combat. I'll need more time to make a decision on if it works but it is a brave decision on Naughty Dog's part and should be commended.

    Storywise I'm not not as impressed as some people but then again it's early days yet. It's all quite obvious so far.
    I knew from the minute I saw Joel with his daughter she was toast. If they were going for a way to have Joel and Ellie to be close an easy way is to have Joel look at her as a replacement for her daughter. Obvious yes, but it was done in an effective manner.

    Another part of the story I was disappointed with was
    there's a bang of Children of Men off it. When I heard the story was Joel bringing Ellie across hostile ground I was hoping that they didn't go for the old 'she holds the key to humanities survival' plot that has been done to death especially in the zombie genre. Maybe it takes some surprising turns later. It's early days yet as I said.

    While I found the plot very obvious the script writing is exceptional, a real step up from Uncharted. It feels really natural. Amy Hennig really has proved herself as a much better writer than I gave her credit for. However there's still a tonal disparity in the game. There's far too much killing of humans on a whim. I'd have preferred to see a game with more build up to the violence so that when the shocking visceral combat does happen it's more shocking rather than getting a bit blase. Then again perhaps it's a design choice to keep the game more interesting.

    So is it a GOTY contender? I've not played many games out this year but it probably is so far with me. However it's wide open for another game to take that place, especially with SMT IV on the way.

    Then again I'm only 4 hours in and there's a lot more this game has to give.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭SouthTippBass


    I saw in the credits that Nolan North was the voice of David, guess you just cant make a game these days without him!


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,702 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I saw in the credits that Nolan North was the voice of David, guess you just cant make a game these days without him!



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